I dont think removing Mentor from the list completely is the answer.
If you are doing that, then Grixis is just the better deck.
I think the answer is having something in the sideboard that you transform into when Mentor is not at its strongest.
Before we remove Mentor from the list, ask yourself what is good about Mentor and why are you playing it in the first place? Mentor is really good against creature heavy, removal light decks; he is able to create blockers/attackers by casting spells making combat math hard for your opponent. Prowess makes this doubly hard, as every spell makes him and his tokens bigger. Where Mentor is poor, is where the deck you are playing against is running threat light but a lot of cheap removal. His 2/2 body and CMC 3 makes him hard to protect when they are playing cards like Bolt for 1 CMC.
I am on the Geist transformative sideboard, bc Geist plays well in situations that Mentor does not. The deck packs enough removal/counters to protect a Geist from creatures on board and most ppl will board in extra spot removal for the Mentors they saw game 1, which becomes useless against Geist.
The other option, would be to have a control sideboard; some planeswalkers and extra board wipes and just turn into a Esper tap-out control deck that wins on the back of Tasigur/Angler.
-the new gideon looks like it was made for our deck
Wow the decklists are quite similar.
I think new Jace is good, but if you are running him, why not run Thought Scour instead of Visions? It means you are sure to flip him as soon as he can activate. We arent running Delver, so I feel like scry on Visions isnt really worth being force to play at sorcery speed. I dont own them right now and I do not think he is worth his price tag right now so I will not be buying any to test.
I am running 4 probe because a) we really need to know our opponents hand, more so than most decks due to how threat light we r. b) it guarentees that we get something from Mentor on turn 3, as you can keep priority and cast probe for 2 life and trigger a monk token.
I am honestly torn on Sorin 2.0.....I feel like t3 Mentor/probe into t4 Sorin 2.0 is lights out for most decks. But I feel like he is weaker on an empty board than Sorin 1.0 or even Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I have debated replacing 1 with Zealous Persecution, especially with the rise of combo Elves and CC decks.
New Gideon is interesting; I think ppl are underestimating him in Modern. He is flexible; you can use him as a +2/+2 prowess anthem for a surprise alpha strike to win, adds 2/2 tokens on a crowded board or can be a hard to remove Tasigur-ish threat on an empty board. I dont know if he is better than other PWs we have access too, but I think he is at least testable.
I think my list is 1 or 2 removal spells too light; I am trying to use Grixis Control and previous mentor decks as a template to build off of. I think Mentor is vastly underestimated and the Geist sideboard really makes up for its weaknesses.
@Scoup - I think Shaheen has a soft spot for Gideon; I am unconvinced he is worth a spot in the deck. CMC 5 is stressing an already tight manabase with 22 lands (only 12 of which make mana). If you are worried about getting run over by your opponent, up your removal, add a wrath to the side and consider some Zealous Persecution
The plan is that Geist will replace Mentor in sideboarded games against decks that a) need a quick clock or b) play a lot of spot removal and few creatures. The Cavern works well, as all the creatures are Human and helps in the Blue mirror match ups.
I think Mentor and Geist are extremely underplayed/under evaluated at the moment and I think their contrasting playstyles will work well together.
I'm confused as to why so many people dropped Mentor (I am still playing him). He's house when you can protect him with counters. Plus you can put Geist on sideboard against the control decks.
I came to the same conclusion as well. Geist and Mentor seems to compliment each other very well. Mentor is great in spot removal light match ups that are creature heavy while Geist is great when the opponent is spot removal heavy but creature light.
You have a list you are currently using? I like what Soorani was playing 2 weeks ago, though I think that visions should be scours and add some Geists to the sideboard
Would love to see the list you are using. I want to play the deck, I love the idea of it (the Mentor version) but everytime I play the deck, I feel like I am already behind, especially when I sit down against Grixis Delver or UR Twin.
I think I am a fairly competent players (Im no PT player but I usually end events with positive records) but I just do not feel like the Esper colours make up for missing out on R.
So with Esper Twix what do we even side out against burn? I've done some testing and I kind of suspect meddling mage would be the cut in some number. It just feels like their deck is so redundant it doesn't do enough.
You have to remember even if they remove Meddling Mage, that means it is one less burn card going at you. If can also force awkward plays by your opponent.
I have found that some of the more expensive removal is what I remove, since casting a CMC 3 or 5 on a CMC 1 or 2 creature is not where I want to be.
Here is a quick summary and my feelings on the deck:
Went 2-2 at the event
To be fair, I had never played the deck before tonite (literally sleeved it up 10 minutes before start time). I will do a brief recap below:
Match 1 - Esper Control (2-0). Opened with discard into Geist into Elspeth into Meddling Mage naming Verdict, that was game. Game 2 involved a lot of discard/Scullers finished with Snap/Mage beats.
Match 2 - UWR Twin (1-2) Game 1 was a lot of back and forth. He played 2 Geist throughout the game, while I played none. I was able to win with Snap/Mage/Angel beats. Game 2 He was able to combo off with Twin, which I did not see in match 1 so was extremely not expecting. I am not sure if it is a sideboard plan or what. Game 3 was my first big mistake/super lucky top decks from my opponent. I had him down to 8 life with a Resto on the board and nothing on his side. I cast Thoughtseize and see the following: Pestermite, Keranos, Splinter Twin. He is on 3 lands and I have Creeping Tar Pit and Resto. I have him dead in 2 turns if I take the Pestermite, 3 if I don't. I figure he has to hit non-shock land (in a 3 colour deck) and a Deceiver/Mite on his next two draw steps to win. I go greedy and pick the Mite. He proceeds to top deck Plains into Deceiver...... While I draw nothing but 4 lands in a row (with 3 more coming). Bad Beats.
Match 3 - UWR Control (2-1). Game 1 - Discard into Geist gets me there. Game 2 - is super grindy until he top decks a Crucible with 2 GQs on the table and 3 of my basics already out. He cuts me off White first, and I proceed to draw Kor Firewalker > Geist > Resto. Game 3 I rip his hand apart, land Sorin LoI and beat down with Vampires/Creeping Tar Pit.
Match 4 Grixis Delver (0-2). Game 1 He lands some early YPs while I find no removal and have a Geist that cant attack. He is able to burn me out for 12 damage and some Tasigur beats. Game 2 I dont draw more than the 2 lands I have in my opener over 10 turns. I do draw all 3 of my Geists though. The second game I felt like if I had drawn some lands early I could have won
I liked the deck, there is just so much disruption between Scullers, Mages and IoK/Thoughtseize. My only issue with sometimes I felt like I wanted card draw: all the decks I played against were running Serum Visions (as well as Think Twice/Thought Scour) and I felt like I did not have the selection/draw they did. Even after ripping apart there hands, I felt like I was relying on my top deck and they could draw out of it. My manabase needs some work; I was stuck without WW sometimes for Elspeth or Firewalkers; but that was my fault.
I am a huge proponent of small, repeatable life gain against Burn. Now that most decks are running 8 spells that prevent life gain, I dont want to rely on a) them not having Skullcrack/Command when I want to cast my Timely/Rest b) getting to turn 3 with enough of a life cushion that I can cast a lifegain only spell. Firewalker does so much work against Burn/Zoo and can even come in against Grixis Delver and other decks that I want to burn you out for 6-12 damage every game.
I think I want to try to find room for 3-4 Visions/Anticipates though I have no idea what to cut/trim.
[quote from="TheNoob »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/579970-buw-aggro-control-esper-midrange?comment=317"]@my previous post
snip
Stopped reading here: "I actually wouldn't say it has any 'bad' matchups, but it has a few that are more challenging than others, namely Abzan, Sultai, and Jund, followed by Grixis Delver"
Well having a tough time against 2/3 decks you definitely wanna beat and face is likely just game over in my opinion.
There is no deck in modern that has a "favourable" or good match up against all the tier 1 decks.... if there was it would be tier S and dominate the format.
And saying they are challenging is vastly different than saying they are bad or unwinnable....
</blockquote>
Why play this pile if there are decks that are at least having 2/3 good matchups out of the 3 you want to beat?
Of course the creator doesnt bash his creation and says 2 of 3 tier decks are horrid.
Have you watched this SSG matchup esper mentor vs little junk? They talked about the same thing. Mentor tries to do similiar things but having weaker individualcards. With this i dont want to question the obvious power of the deck (original japanese mentor), but with consideration that jund will be a top contender the next gp, I would be careful to play this brew at a big event, thats all im saying.
</blockquote>
That argument is much more thought out and useful than "Stop reading at ...."
This deck is different than Mentor though on a few different axises.
1) Geist is hexproof and a serious clock all by itself. The removal/discard/counters provide a good way to protect him.
2) Geist is great in a format that relies on a lot of targeted removal, which is what Grixis Delver/Jund/Abzan do; they play almost no sweepers relying on effective cheap removal.
3) Decks like Grixis Delver and Jund play on the lighter side of threats, relying on their cost efficiency to make up for it, disrupting that slows them down, which combined with a great clock can be extremely effective.
I am not saying this is the next greatest deck, but i think it is an interesting take on the meta and i am sleeving it up for the next few weeks to put it through its paces
[quote from="TheNoob »" url="http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/tier-2-modern/579970-buw-aggro-control-esper-midrange?comment=317"]@my previous post
snip
Stopped reading here: "I actually wouldn't say it has any 'bad' matchups, but it has a few that are more challenging than others, namely Abzan, Sultai, and Jund, followed by Grixis Delver"
Well having a tough time against 2/3 decks you definitely wanna beat and face is likely just game over in my opinion.
There is no deck in modern that has a "favourable" or good match up against all the tier 1 decks.... if there was it would be tier S and dominate the format.
And saying they are challenging is vastly different than saying they are bad or unwinnable....
The deck looks kinda of interesting, i think Kor Firewalkers would be better suited in the sideboard but the deck looks rather interesting. Thought I would bring it to the thread to get some more discussion going.
I am going to be testing it myself.
PS - it was NOT my creation, I am posting it on behalf the original creator Franceso.
Seems a bit closer to Esper Control than Esper Mentor. I question two things in the deck; Elspeth and Meddling Mage.
Combo really isn't that prevalent in the meta right now besides Bloom, so many times you're getting a 2/2 bear that might eat a bolt or chump a goyf. I can see it in the sideboard if bloom gets to the larger meta share that it used to have. As for Elspeth, I could just be biased. She always seemed a win-more card that hardly does much to help you if you're behind on board, and only somewhat helps if you're at board parity. I understand that you can't run Sad Sorin in a deck that is less token heavy, but maybe there's a better card for that slot?
Can you properly protect a Geist without bolt? This deck only runs 6 removal spells and 2 (maybe 3) counterspells, whereas most UWR Geist decks run at least 8 removal and 5 or so counter magic. I understand that sometimes you'll draw Shizo which protects Geist from almost everything, but as only a 1-of, I don't see that occurring often. Maybe Discard + Tidehollow can get there, but I don't think so, not reliably.
As a final point, I really, honestly, think that not running Lingering Souls is a mistake in a BW deck. Even without the added support from Mentor, Souls can take over games quite easily.
Seems like a take an Esper attempt at UWR Geist.
You are actually running 9 discard, plus 6 removal, plus 5 counters and 3 Meddling Mages all of which protect your Geist. Also Elspeth acts as both a win-con and a pump spell for your Geist. Restoration can save it from bad combat as well still letting you for 4 points of damage.
I think the deck has a lot of layers that are not immediately apparent by just looking at the cards in general.
Finally, the Thread is called BUW Aggro, not Mentor aggro.
The deck looks kinda of interesting, i think Kor Firewalkers would be better suited in the sideboard but the deck looks rather interesting. Thought I would bring it to the thread to get some more discussion going.
I am going to be testing it myself.
PS - it was NOT my creation, I am posting it on behalf the original creator Franceso.
All the modes are relevant; bouncing a creature is often the same as removing it as this deck likes it alpha strike, the cantrip is nice with a Mentor on the board and the lifelink can shore up Burn/aggro match ups.
What about Sorin 1.0 vs Sorin 2.0?
The emblem has some definite Pros to it vs the 2/2 flying token, maybe its just that I love the Duel Deck Sorin 1.0....
@ the permission heavier build... I think permission belongs in the sideboard for this deck. I feel like I want to be as aggressive as possible game 1 and cards like Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Pierce/Spell Snare can be rather hit or miss. I like the discard/removal heavy build backed up with a full set of Mentors/Snaps/2-3 Tasigurs
I've been trying to make this deck work all morning on cockatrice and I'm like 1-12.... I just don't see how this deck ever wins. It does not have the permission suite to push fast decks into the mid/late game. It does not want a topdeck war anyways. And if it does get to the end our lategame is just much worse than any other real late game deck's. We're going for 1/1 tokens as our end game where twin is comboing out, tron is dropping 15/15s, real control decks are flashing angels while keeping cryptic open, and have access to bolt-snap-bolt etc etc.
The games where my mentor survived for more than 1 spells it was like "yes!" except then my opponent just does something 10x better. and/or I have nothing left to chain prowess with.
I'm so sad because I just got my 4th mentor assuming this deck would be awesome. I'm fine with needing time to perfect the finer points, but shouldn't I feel occasionally like I'm in the game? Instead of pretty much always feeling like a passenger on the highway to my own demise?
Please dont take this as an attack on you, but maybe this deck just doesnt suit your playstyle?
I have played 50+ matches with the deck and my feelings are completely different. I feel like landing a Mentor is game over. We run so much removal that the board is always fairly clear and we run enough dig/sources of card advantage that our top decks are usually better.
Twin shouldnt be much of a problem, you are running enough removal that comboing off shouldnt be possible until they have enough mana to cast twin with counters up.
I can see Tron being an issue but RG Tron isnt popular anymore and U Tron is super rare in RL.
The deck has the ability to go wide (Monk tokens, Spirits, Sorin) as well as big (Prowess and Tasigur).
Try to save your permission for boardwipes or to protect mentor/tasigur.
It is hard to say the deck is bad, given the flood of results its had lately (a ton of top finishes and Mentor has only been out of a few months).
i've been checking this deck for a while, and as soon as i get myself some missing cards i would really like to test this deck. however there's one thing i can't figure out myself:
i mean geist is hard to remove, 4-6 damage guaranteed each turn, while mentor is just 3-4 damage next turn with 1-2 tokens, and you have to cast another 1-2 spells next turn to swing for some decent damage... or am i getting it wrong?
Pros of Mentor over Geist
- Mentor works well with every non-land, non-creature card in your deck (currently, that is 23 lands and 3 Tasigurs for me), Geist needs specific cards (the right removal) at the right time to work well (he is killed by any creature with 2 power or more)
- Mentors get exponentially better the more you have on the field, Geist (being Legendary) gets punished for every other one you draw
- Mentors can completely take over games if you get to untap with them. Geist is consistent damage but takes many turns to do it, and needs to do it on a clear board
- Prowess is extremely underrated in Modern; very few creatures (MS is the only other one I can think of) that is played regularly. This can take people by surprise a lot and win you games because they misplayed.
- Making free chump blocking tokens can not be underrated in this creature heavy meta. Getting 1/1 tokens that can increase in size for casting spells you were going to cast anyways can buy you turns to find your answers or get enough cards in hand to swing for lethal. I dont know how many Goyfs, Tasigurs or Anglers I have chump blocked for turn after turn to stay alive to find answers and win the game.
- Mentor is easier on the mana base, though only barely.
OVerall, I think while comparing them is valid, the playstyle and deck built around them is completely different.
Mentor rewards you for playing any cards, Geist is rewarded by play particular cards. Mentor is kind of like Delver; it synergizes really well with the kind of cards you want to be playing (Serum Visions, Thought Scour, removal, discard etc).
If you are doing that, then Grixis is just the better deck.
I think the answer is having something in the sideboard that you transform into when Mentor is not at its strongest.
Before we remove Mentor from the list, ask yourself what is good about Mentor and why are you playing it in the first place? Mentor is really good against creature heavy, removal light decks; he is able to create blockers/attackers by casting spells making combat math hard for your opponent. Prowess makes this doubly hard, as every spell makes him and his tokens bigger. Where Mentor is poor, is where the deck you are playing against is running threat light but a lot of cheap removal. His 2/2 body and CMC 3 makes him hard to protect when they are playing cards like Bolt for 1 CMC.
I am on the Geist transformative sideboard, bc Geist plays well in situations that Mentor does not. The deck packs enough removal/counters to protect a Geist from creatures on board and most ppl will board in extra spot removal for the Mentors they saw game 1, which becomes useless against Geist.
The other option, would be to have a control sideboard; some planeswalkers and extra board wipes and just turn into a Esper tap-out control deck that wins on the back of Tasigur/Angler.
Wow the decklists are quite similar.
I think new Jace is good, but if you are running him, why not run Thought Scour instead of Visions? It means you are sure to flip him as soon as he can activate. We arent running Delver, so I feel like scry on Visions isnt really worth being force to play at sorcery speed. I dont own them right now and I do not think he is worth his price tag right now so I will not be buying any to test.
I am running 4 probe because a) we really need to know our opponents hand, more so than most decks due to how threat light we r. b) it guarentees that we get something from Mentor on turn 3, as you can keep priority and cast probe for 2 life and trigger a monk token.
I am honestly torn on Sorin 2.0.....I feel like t3 Mentor/probe into t4 Sorin 2.0 is lights out for most decks. But I feel like he is weaker on an empty board than Sorin 1.0 or even Elspeth, Knight-Errant. I have debated replacing 1 with Zealous Persecution, especially with the rise of combo Elves and CC decks.
New Gideon is interesting; I think ppl are underestimating him in Modern. He is flexible; you can use him as a +2/+2 prowess anthem for a surprise alpha strike to win, adds 2/2 tokens on a crowded board or can be a hard to remove Tasigur-ish threat on an empty board. I dont know if he is better than other PWs we have access too, but I think he is at least testable.
I think my list is 1 or 2 removal spells too light; I am trying to use Grixis Control and previous mentor decks as a template to build off of. I think Mentor is vastly underestimated and the Geist sideboard really makes up for its weaknesses.
@Scoup - I think Shaheen has a soft spot for Gideon; I am unconvinced he is worth a spot in the deck. CMC 5 is stressing an already tight manabase with 22 lands (only 12 of which make mana). If you are worried about getting run over by your opponent, up your removal, add a wrath to the side and consider some Zealous Persecution
4x Flooded Strand
1x Marsh Flats
2x Island
1x Plain
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Watery Grave
1x Godless Shrine
1x Drowned Catacombs
2x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Celestial Colonnade
3x Monastery Mentor
3x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Thought Scour
4x Path to Exile
1x Azourius Charm
4x Mana Leak
3x Cryptic Command
3x Lingering Souls
1x Timely Reinforcements
4x Inquistion of Kozilek
2x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
2x Kor Firewalker
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Celestial Purge
2x Stony Silence
1x Wrath of God
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Dispel
1x Negate
The plan is that Geist will replace Mentor in sideboarded games against decks that a) need a quick clock or b) play a lot of spot removal and few creatures. The Cavern works well, as all the creatures are Human and helps in the Blue mirror match ups.
I think Mentor and Geist are extremely underplayed/under evaluated at the moment and I think their contrasting playstyles will work well together.
I came to the same conclusion as well. Geist and Mentor seems to compliment each other very well. Mentor is great in spot removal light match ups that are creature heavy while Geist is great when the opponent is spot removal heavy but creature light.
You have a list you are currently using? I like what Soorani was playing 2 weeks ago, though I think that visions should be scours and add some Geists to the sideboard
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=89988
Deck Tech : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GBPfO_1sJUI
Would love to see the list you are using. I want to play the deck, I love the idea of it (the Mentor version) but everytime I play the deck, I feel like I am already behind, especially when I sit down against Grixis Delver or UR Twin.
I think I am a fairly competent players (Im no PT player but I usually end events with positive records) but I just do not feel like the Esper colours make up for missing out on R.
Thanks for sharing
You have to remember even if they remove Meddling Mage, that means it is one less burn card going at you. If can also force awkward plays by your opponent.
I have found that some of the more expensive removal is what I remove, since casting a CMC 3 or 5 on a CMC 1 or 2 creature is not where I want to be.
Here is the list
1x Celestial Colonnade
1x Darkslick Shores
3x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
2x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
2x Watery Grave
1x Seachrome Coast
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3x Esper Charm
1x Go for the Throat
3x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Spell Snare
3x Meddling Mage
2x Restoration Angel
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Vendilion Clique
1x Spell Pierce
1x Gideon Jura
1x Smother
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Negate
2x Spellskite
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Timely Reinforcments
1x Supreme Verdict
Here is a quick summary and my feelings on the deck:
Went 2-2 at the event
To be fair, I had never played the deck before tonite (literally sleeved it up 10 minutes before start time). I will do a brief recap below:
Match 1 - Esper Control (2-0). Opened with discard into Geist into Elspeth into Meddling Mage naming Verdict, that was game. Game 2 involved a lot of discard/Scullers finished with Snap/Mage beats.
Match 2 - UWR Twin (1-2) Game 1 was a lot of back and forth. He played 2 Geist throughout the game, while I played none. I was able to win with Snap/Mage/Angel beats. Game 2 He was able to combo off with Twin, which I did not see in match 1 so was extremely not expecting. I am not sure if it is a sideboard plan or what. Game 3 was my first big mistake/super lucky top decks from my opponent. I had him down to 8 life with a Resto on the board and nothing on his side. I cast Thoughtseize and see the following: Pestermite, Keranos, Splinter Twin. He is on 3 lands and I have Creeping Tar Pit and Resto. I have him dead in 2 turns if I take the Pestermite, 3 if I don't. I figure he has to hit non-shock land (in a 3 colour deck) and a Deceiver/Mite on his next two draw steps to win. I go greedy and pick the Mite. He proceeds to top deck Plains into Deceiver...... While I draw nothing but 4 lands in a row (with 3 more coming). Bad Beats.
Match 3 - UWR Control (2-1). Game 1 - Discard into Geist gets me there. Game 2 - is super grindy until he top decks a Crucible with 2 GQs on the table and 3 of my basics already out. He cuts me off White first, and I proceed to draw Kor Firewalker > Geist > Resto. Game 3 I rip his hand apart, land Sorin LoI and beat down with Vampires/Creeping Tar Pit.
Match 4 Grixis Delver (0-2). Game 1 He lands some early YPs while I find no removal and have a Geist that cant attack. He is able to burn me out for 12 damage and some Tasigur beats. Game 2 I dont draw more than the 2 lands I have in my opener over 10 turns. I do draw all 3 of my Geists though. The second game I felt like if I had drawn some lands early I could have won
I liked the deck, there is just so much disruption between Scullers, Mages and IoK/Thoughtseize. My only issue with sometimes I felt like I wanted card draw: all the decks I played against were running Serum Visions (as well as Think Twice/Thought Scour) and I felt like I did not have the selection/draw they did. Even after ripping apart there hands, I felt like I was relying on my top deck and they could draw out of it. My manabase needs some work; I was stuck without WW sometimes for Elspeth or Firewalkers; but that was my fault.
I am a huge proponent of small, repeatable life gain against Burn. Now that most decks are running 8 spells that prevent life gain, I dont want to rely on a) them not having Skullcrack/Command when I want to cast my Timely/Rest b) getting to turn 3 with enough of a life cushion that I can cast a lifegain only spell. Firewalker does so much work against Burn/Zoo and can even come in against Grixis Delver and other decks that I want to burn you out for 6-12 damage every game.
I think I want to try to find room for 3-4 Visions/Anticipates though I have no idea what to cut/trim.
</blockquote>
That argument is much more thought out and useful than "Stop reading at ...."
This deck is different than Mentor though on a few different axises.
1) Geist is hexproof and a serious clock all by itself. The removal/discard/counters provide a good way to protect him.
2) Geist is great in a format that relies on a lot of targeted removal, which is what Grixis Delver/Jund/Abzan do; they play almost no sweepers relying on effective cheap removal.
3) Decks like Grixis Delver and Jund play on the lighter side of threats, relying on their cost efficiency to make up for it, disrupting that slows them down, which combined with a great clock can be extremely effective.
I am not saying this is the next greatest deck, but i think it is an interesting take on the meta and i am sleeving it up for the next few weeks to put it through its paces
There is no deck in modern that has a "favourable" or good match up against all the tier 1 decks.... if there was it would be tier S and dominate the format.
And saying they are challenging is vastly different than saying they are bad or unwinnable....
The list was featured on TCG player by Ari Lax today http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12585&writerAli
The original creator has updated the list as follows:
1x Celestial Colonnade
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Flooded Strand
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Godless Shrine
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Swamp
1x Watery Grave
Sorcery (6)
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (3)
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1x Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3x Esper Charm
1x Go for the Throat
3x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
4x Path to Exile
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Spell Snare
Creature (15)
3x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Meddling Mage
2x Restoration Angel
3x Snapcaster Mage
3x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Dispel
1x Gideon Jura
1x Go for the Throat
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
1x Negate
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Spellskite
1x Sphinx's Revelation
2x Timely Reinforcements
1x Utter End
1x Wrath of God
You are actually running 9 discard, plus 6 removal, plus 5 counters and 3 Meddling Mages all of which protect your Geist. Also Elspeth acts as both a win-con and a pump spell for your Geist. Restoration can save it from bad combat as well still letting you for 4 points of damage.
I think the deck has a lot of layers that are not immediately apparent by just looking at the cards in general.
Finally, the Thread is called BUW Aggro, not Mentor aggro.
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/28-05-15-esper-twix/
2x Creeping Tar Pit
3x Flooded Strand
1x Ghost Quarter
3x Godless Shrine
3x Hallowed Fountain
2x Island
2x Plains
4x Polluted Delta
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Swamp
Sorcery
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker
2x Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Instant
2x Esper Charm
2x Mana Leak
1x Murderous Cut
1x Negate
4x Path to Exile
3x Remand
1x Slaughter Pact
1x Spell Snare
3x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Meddling Mage
2x Restoration Angel
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
3x Tidehollow Sculler
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
1x Batterskull
1x Disenchant
1x Dispel
1x Gideon Jura
1x Jace, Architect of Thought
2x Mirran Crusader
1x Negate
2x Spellskite
1x Supreme Verdict
2x Timely Reinforcements
The deck looks kinda of interesting, i think Kor Firewalkers would be better suited in the sideboard but the deck looks rather interesting. Thought I would bring it to the thread to get some more discussion going.
I am going to be testing it myself.
PS - it was NOT my creation, I am posting it on behalf the original creator Franceso.
All the modes are relevant; bouncing a creature is often the same as removing it as this deck likes it alpha strike, the cantrip is nice with a Mentor on the board and the lifelink can shore up Burn/aggro match ups.
What about Sorin 1.0 vs Sorin 2.0?
The emblem has some definite Pros to it vs the 2/2 flying token, maybe its just that I love the Duel Deck Sorin 1.0....
@ the permission heavier build... I think permission belongs in the sideboard for this deck. I feel like I want to be as aggressive as possible game 1 and cards like Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Pierce/Spell Snare can be rather hit or miss. I like the discard/removal heavy build backed up with a full set of Mentors/Snaps/2-3 Tasigurs
Please dont take this as an attack on you, but maybe this deck just doesnt suit your playstyle?
I have played 50+ matches with the deck and my feelings are completely different. I feel like landing a Mentor is game over. We run so much removal that the board is always fairly clear and we run enough dig/sources of card advantage that our top decks are usually better.
Twin shouldnt be much of a problem, you are running enough removal that comboing off shouldnt be possible until they have enough mana to cast twin with counters up.
I can see Tron being an issue but RG Tron isnt popular anymore and U Tron is super rare in RL.
The deck has the ability to go wide (Monk tokens, Spirits, Sorin) as well as big (Prowess and Tasigur).
Try to save your permission for boardwipes or to protect mentor/tasigur.
It is hard to say the deck is bad, given the flood of results its had lately (a ton of top finishes and Mentor has only been out of a few months).
Pros of Mentor over Geist
- Mentor works well with every non-land, non-creature card in your deck (currently, that is 23 lands and 3 Tasigurs for me), Geist needs specific cards (the right removal) at the right time to work well (he is killed by any creature with 2 power or more)
- Mentors get exponentially better the more you have on the field, Geist (being Legendary) gets punished for every other one you draw
- Mentors can completely take over games if you get to untap with them. Geist is consistent damage but takes many turns to do it, and needs to do it on a clear board
- Prowess is extremely underrated in Modern; very few creatures (MS is the only other one I can think of) that is played regularly. This can take people by surprise a lot and win you games because they misplayed.
- Making free chump blocking tokens can not be underrated in this creature heavy meta. Getting 1/1 tokens that can increase in size for casting spells you were going to cast anyways can buy you turns to find your answers or get enough cards in hand to swing for lethal. I dont know how many Goyfs, Tasigurs or Anglers I have chump blocked for turn after turn to stay alive to find answers and win the game.
- Mentor is easier on the mana base, though only barely.
OVerall, I think while comparing them is valid, the playstyle and deck built around them is completely different.
Mentor rewards you for playing any cards, Geist is rewarded by play particular cards. Mentor is kind of like Delver; it synergizes really well with the kind of cards you want to be playing (Serum Visions, Thought Scour, removal, discard etc).