Aren't engineered explosives + zealous persecution enough against soul sisters and martyr?
No, if they know you have board disruption they won't play Martyr unless they have the 1 up to activate her. Since her ability is dependent on their hand, and not their board state, it's one hell of a hard gameplan to disrupt. It's also an awful matchup vs burn but that doesn't stop burn from being a tier 1 deck.
no offense liege rhino and podless pod fans, but... If I read your playtest results I can not rly believe you.
You have a positive win % against all matchups? Only infect is a little meeh..
I can not found your decklist in a 4-0 daily or at tournaments top8. Can I/we see some real results?
If you just look at the last SCG Events there are plenty of 'Abzan Aggro' lists out there ? ... I agree with you that some people here overrate the win% of this deck quite a lot... its a very good deck and it has many favorable matchup and can win against everything. I don't want to offend some people here, but some views of the deck and its alternations are not from this world...sorry
The Deck isn't without its weaknesses, its not perfect against all decks, just the ones that tend to win Tournaments. This is very much a meta deck that's designed to deal with some of the most successful archetypes in the format. You're right, that its not always going to have such a successful win rate, and tends to not deal well with fringe decks like Aristocrats and Skred. But you have to try it before judgement to see just how efficient it can be against other tier 1/2 offerings.
I feel its matchup dependant.
The God hand would be against BGx manland two fetches one any other land smiter smiter wilt leaf LOL. Normally I keep most hands with two lands at least, one disruption spell or more, and two threats. The hand generally has keepable hands 95 percent of the time. The deck also mulligans really well!
I have to admit that I get a little too excited when a thoughtseize or Ravens Crime allows me to drop a T1 or T2 Liege/smiter haha. Its just such a gratifying thing.
I will be streaming video tonite testing with the guy I made the deck with at 7 PM ish California time. I will link the stream when it occurs! Be there or be square.
Our deck is custom tuned to beat opposing Discard Junk decks, and Ive had people be forced to put a Liege or Smiter into play when they went to Thoughtseize me on more than a few occasions. Without Liege I will agree that it can feel like a less effective wall of omens, but it definitely does its work.
If you are playing against a blood moon deck, the game plan becomes fetch for basics or fetch for duels but ALWAYS HOLD UP DECAY. You can afford to slow a bit against those decks as they rely on blood moon so much. Hold up disruption even if it's a bluff. I also have never had a moon against me land as I either have the disruption by floating mana, or I take it out of the hand.
Sounds like you got uber unlucky against control as literally in a ton of matches have yet to lose a game. The plan is to not overcommit. Take the paths or bolts from hand then stick a voice and one other threat like liege or rhino then ride it to victory. I typically disrupt them then draw go untill I stick a clock to not get blown out against them. I feel you lost both of the matches due to bad luck and attacking the deck attacking the deck the wrong way.
Also skred is a bad deck generally, but I found that's literally the one matchup that feels unwinnable. It's also like. 001 percent of the meta so I didn't think it was worth mentioning but I did play against it. We can still win but it's the hardest matchup if we don't draw right.
Wooooow... this might seem silly... but I didnt even consider floating the mana in response to the Blood Moon being cast only to decay it after it sticks. Thank you for that light bulb moment. Do you have any advice against Skred? I havent any experience with it in general.
The control matchup just got too grindy for me, Im an aggro player coming from Affinity and GW Hatebears/D&T and long game matchups are a personal weakness of my comfortable play style. The fact that he drew all of his Supreme Verdicts certainly didnt help much
Match 1: Skred 0-2
Game 1- never actually played against this match up, but I barely saw anything other than a snow-covered mountain before I folded hard to a Simian Spirit guide fueled t2 blood moon.
Game 2- I kept a hand with abrupt decay and focused on basics, but just couldn't find the nature's claim w/ basic forest before he dropped blood moon again t4 on game 2.
Game 2: American Control 0-2
Game 1- despite an incredible aggressive start by me T1: thoughtseize, T2: Voice of Resurgence, T3: Loxodon Smiter, and T4: Wilt-leaf Liege... he dug into the second supreme verdict and wiped then dropped Gideon Jura. I just couldn't get the creature density high enough to break through Gideon.
Game 2- this round lasted almost 30 minutes alone, with a lot of trading back and fourth of creatures and resources. In the end he drew through 3 Leyline of Sanctity, and all 4 of his Supreme Verdicts... Siege Rhino was the all star here even if he died to Gideon's -2 most of the time. Stirring Wildwood was amazing in this match up, and I feel like I could have won but made some small timing / piloting errors. I hate control decks.
Game 3: Amulet/Hive Mind 2-1
Game 1 & 3: both of these rounds played out almost exactly the same, with T1 thoughtseize/IoK taking summer bloom and an aggressive creature start by me. Taking Summer Bloom and Decaying Azusa, lost but seeking were the keys here, he even resolved a Titan but it didn't do a whole lot against my board state.
Game 2: Hive mind into 2 pact of negations and a summoner's pact.... ugh
Game 4: Some weird Grixis Niv-Magus Elemental Aggro Combo 2-1
Game 1: No joke... he had a turn 2 win with a ridiculously big nivmagus elemental thanks to phyrexian spells and storm. Supported by a Stubborn Denial for my Path to Exile when he attacked. He didnt have quite 20 damage but I wasn't going to stabilize with my hand.
Game 2: Thoughtseize and IoK stripped his hand early and Voice with Smiter & Liege lead the victory.
Game 3: He killed himself with phyrexian mana, guess he didn't realize he had no white sources when he tried to cast Apostle's Blessing in response to my Path on his 16/16 unblockable Niv-Magus.
* he was either very new to his deck, or to mtgo, bc he was taking forever to make plays and wasn't responding to the chat window. I was really happy that even knowing what was in my hand the whole time thanks to multiple Githaxian Probes and Thoughtseizes... he wasn't able to really play around it at all in the end bc everything I drew was just another tool or threat.
All in all I had the worst night Ive ever had playing this deck, but thats part of what makes MTGO games so interesting. People play a lot more fringe decks online, and even powerful decks can be brought down by them. The man lands are definitely a great addition to the deck, but I wonder if we could somehow manage more of them? Also While Nature's Claim is a powerful card, an early blood moon is pretty hard for us to recover from if we didnt fetch a basic forest t1/t2.
appreciate you running my list :D. Can you do a tournament report? I suggest buying a 4th liege it makes a difference but restoration card is the best replacement as it allows insane shennanigans.
Also, I got PMed today asking if I could record some gameplay with me and this deck. I actually have been wanting to make a MTG channel with the username Emracool anyway. Would you guys like it? I would record a bunch with the deck.
Id watch, Im already a convert but I would like to see how you pilot the deck
Ive been running a sub-optimal land configuration compared to Emracool's list and haven't had too many issues with mana screw. I don't always hit Liege or Siege Rhino turn 4, but everything I draw is relevant and a threat for opposing decks to deal with. Dropping 2 Voices in a single turn, or being able to thoughtsieze/Inquisition every 3 turns, or always having the mana open for Path or Decay whole dropping threats has never been an issue. Its all about managing your fetches properly. I have gone back to playing the dork version a couple of times and hes right... they're useless as a topdeck and more often than not eat a burn spell. The only cards I hate to topdeck at this point are lands.
Emracool, your list is awesome! I've been running it on MTGO and just destroying the competition. It's resilient, adaptive, and the side board gives it a transformative aspect that a lot of other modern decks can't deal with.
You've converted a D&T/ Hatebear player. I look forward to seeing this archetype climb the tiers.
I vote we call it Little Liege as well.
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No, if they know you have board disruption they won't play Martyr unless they have the 1 up to activate her. Since her ability is dependent on their hand, and not their board state, it's one hell of a hard gameplan to disrupt. It's also an awful matchup vs burn but that doesn't stop burn from being a tier 1 deck.
The Deck isn't without its weaknesses, its not perfect against all decks, just the ones that tend to win Tournaments. This is very much a meta deck that's designed to deal with some of the most successful archetypes in the format. You're right, that its not always going to have such a successful win rate, and tends to not deal well with fringe decks like Aristocrats and Skred. But you have to try it before judgement to see just how efficient it can be against other tier 1/2 offerings.
I have to admit that I get a little too excited when a thoughtseize or Ravens Crime allows me to drop a T1 or T2 Liege/smiter haha. Its just such a gratifying thing.
Put it on youtube so we can see it anytime!
Wooooow... this might seem silly... but I didnt even consider floating the mana in response to the Blood Moon being cast only to decay it after it sticks. Thank you for that light bulb moment. Do you have any advice against Skred? I havent any experience with it in general.
The control matchup just got too grindy for me, Im an aggro player coming from Affinity and GW Hatebears/D&T and long game matchups are a personal weakness of my comfortable play style. The fact that he drew all of his Supreme Verdicts certainly didnt help much
Match 1: Skred 0-2
Game 1- never actually played against this match up, but I barely saw anything other than a snow-covered mountain before I folded hard to a Simian Spirit guide fueled t2 blood moon.
Game 2- I kept a hand with abrupt decay and focused on basics, but just couldn't find the nature's claim w/ basic forest before he dropped blood moon again t4 on game 2.
Game 2: American Control 0-2
Game 1- despite an incredible aggressive start by me T1: thoughtseize, T2: Voice of Resurgence, T3: Loxodon Smiter, and T4: Wilt-leaf Liege... he dug into the second supreme verdict and wiped then dropped Gideon Jura. I just couldn't get the creature density high enough to break through Gideon.
Game 2- this round lasted almost 30 minutes alone, with a lot of trading back and fourth of creatures and resources. In the end he drew through 3 Leyline of Sanctity, and all 4 of his Supreme Verdicts... Siege Rhino was the all star here even if he died to Gideon's -2 most of the time. Stirring Wildwood was amazing in this match up, and I feel like I could have won but made some small timing / piloting errors. I hate control decks.
Game 3: Amulet/Hive Mind 2-1
Game 1 & 3: both of these rounds played out almost exactly the same, with T1 thoughtseize/IoK taking summer bloom and an aggressive creature start by me. Taking Summer Bloom and Decaying Azusa, lost but seeking were the keys here, he even resolved a Titan but it didn't do a whole lot against my board state.
Game 2: Hive mind into 2 pact of negations and a summoner's pact.... ugh
Game 4: Some weird Grixis Niv-Magus Elemental Aggro Combo 2-1
Game 1: No joke... he had a turn 2 win with a ridiculously big nivmagus elemental thanks to phyrexian spells and storm. Supported by a Stubborn Denial for my Path to Exile when he attacked. He didnt have quite 20 damage but I wasn't going to stabilize with my hand.
Game 2: Thoughtseize and IoK stripped his hand early and Voice with Smiter & Liege lead the victory.
Game 3: He killed himself with phyrexian mana, guess he didn't realize he had no white sources when he tried to cast Apostle's Blessing in response to my Path on his 16/16 unblockable Niv-Magus.
* he was either very new to his deck, or to mtgo, bc he was taking forever to make plays and wasn't responding to the chat window. I was really happy that even knowing what was in my hand the whole time thanks to multiple Githaxian Probes and Thoughtseizes... he wasn't able to really play around it at all in the end bc everything I drew was just another tool or threat.
All in all I had the worst night Ive ever had playing this deck, but thats part of what makes MTGO games so interesting. People play a lot more fringe decks online, and even powerful decks can be brought down by them. The man lands are definitely a great addition to the deck, but I wonder if we could somehow manage more of them? Also While Nature's Claim is a powerful card, an early blood moon is pretty hard for us to recover from if we didnt fetch a basic forest t1/t2.
Id watch, Im already a convert but I would like to see how you pilot the deck
I don't have any verdant catacombs, so I've been running Bloodstained Mires in their place and just being very careful about fetching overgrown tomb with them, and leaving the Temple Gardens and Godless Shrines for Windswept Heath.
Honestly I'm waiting for BFZ or MM2 before I purchase any of the Enemy Fetchlands at this point.
You've converted a D&T/ Hatebear player. I look forward to seeing this archetype climb the tiers.
I vote we call it Little Liege as well.