MTG Salvation

I'll talk about my deck this weekend when I have a chance, but I just want to complain about people playing Anger of the Gods more lately. It's so obnoxious. It makes me want to run 2 Anafenza, The Foremost not because she's amazing against Dredge, Abzan Coco, and the mirror, but because she's got 4 toughness so Smiter isn't the anger resilient early game play.

I'm totally fine against the card post-board, but it's pretty annoying to see people playing 2 copies in the main deck.

Quote from chaos021 »

I guess I don't get the consistency of openers that you do then. I know card-for-card that I should be stronger, but it never seems to work out that way. Usually my mana dork catches a Lightning Bolt or my Voice gets a Spell Snare. I'll be interested to see how many mana dorks you play.

As far as the flaming comment, it was a legitimate question. I usually consider a matchup good if my testing shows a floor of 60%+. You say you it's 45/55 and call it "decent." I find that interesting because that's still essentially a coin flip to me. I mean I'm asking you. You don't have to say anything towards anyone else

I guess my guide is: 45% - 55% winrate is "decent". 37.5% to 44% is "unfavorable", worse than 33% is horrific, with 10% being unwinable. 56%-62.5% is favorable, 75% is amazing, and 90% is unlosable. I know of virtually no match-ups where Little Kid wins more than 70% of the time (burn) or loses more than 30% of the time (Tron). I suppose Tron with 4 maindecked Ugins would potentially be a 25% winrate or lower, while burn without Attarka's Command, say Mardu burn (without Crackling Doom) would be 75% winrate or higher.

I do lose some games where they go turn 1 bolt mana dork, turn 2 counter spell, turn 3 take the turn off, turn 4 Nahiri your 3 drop. But overall find I do OK. I also think I play more 2 drops than most people do, so if my guy eats a bolt I'm OK with that.

Here is the latest version of my deck. I'm pretty happy with it, but I'll discuss some potential changes bellow:



A word on the main deck. I play 21 lands, and I haven't had significant issues across my hundreds of recorded and tested games. I'm pretty good at taking a mulligan or two when needed. I like it better at 21 lands than when I was playing 22. Gavony has screwed me over so many times by producing colorless mana that if I ever play more than 1, I'm cutting a spell for it, not a land. And I'm not in the market for more main-decked gindcore spells.

A 2nd word on the main deck; only 5 mana dorks. I love starting with one, of course. But I lost too many games because I'd draw 3 mana dorks in the 11-14 cards I'd see over the course of the game. Their great turn 1, fine turn 2-3, and don't do as much afterwards. If I had card draw in the main deck, I could see about playing 6. But rather than do that, I made the deck more lean. More aggressive.

And a 3rd, final word on my main deck choices that are unique: Fleecemane Lion. Wonderful card. Nothing else lets you go turn 1 mana dork, turn 2 tap land into 2 drop, turn 3 Liege and swing past a 4/5 Tarmogoyf. Against combo decks, it's a significantly faster clock than Voice is; if they each attack 3 times, Lion bolted them for free. The Lion is a 2 drop that trades with Nacatal, which is key when they kill your mana dork or you don't have one or you want to fetch a tapland. It's ability to become a 4/4 indestructible hexproof creature is phenomenal against BGx, Blue Control, and the mirror match. I'm aware it has many weaknesses; specifically the amount of removal it dies to. This is why I play 2 copies; some matches it's good, other's less so. Voice is better in general, so it gets the nod of 3 copies. Lion will be an unpopular choice, but I'm OK with that. Testing has told me it's fine as cards number 59 and 60 in the deck.

I'd never play Qasali Pridemage in the maindeck. A bear against Jund didn't do it for me, and having exalted doesn't let it be as fast as Lion against combo decks where you're attacking with 2 or 3 creatures.

If I expected a metagame with very little Jund and Junk, and less Zoo, I would cut the 4 Wilt-Leaf Liege and play 4 copies of Restoration Angel instead. Angel is absurd against Nahiri, good against Dredge, good against burn, and fine against Affinity and infect.

I've been thinking about cutting 1 Unmaking from the sideboard, and putting in 1 Celestial Purge. I used to run up to 3 copies of Purge, and it's secretly one of the strongest sideboard cards against modern; it makes your Grixis Delve match-up easy, is great against Nahiri, is very helpful against Jund, great against Delve, and is serviceable against burn.

The moment I get a smell of Delver, I'm putting the 4th Decay back in the main instead of the single Unmaking. No matter the version of Delver, 4 path, 4 decay, efficient life-gain creatures, and Smiter makes it favorable.

As for Tron, go face. Attack as aggressively as possible. Unmaking can snipe a Karn, Decay and Unmaking can destroy some artifacts at key times. If they bother with Wurmcoil or Worldbreaker, you're much further ahead than if their attack with planeswalkers. Ugin is unbeatable. I hardly have sideboard for this match-up because nothing short of 4 Aven Mindcensor, 2 Gaddock Teeg, and 3 Fulminator Mage will help; even then, it's usually not enough.

I also don't really have much for Ad Nauseam. Stony Silence helps, you can bring in Unamaking in place of Path to try and pop an Unlife. It's a bad match-up, and 3 copies of Thoughtseize won't fix it.

I fear Boggles and Infect. Spellskite helps, but I've only got the single copy in the side. Zealous Persecution is strong against Infect and Affinity, as well as Elves, and I do have Unmaking to have more interaction with Boggles. But these decks are built to fight on a axis we're not, so their inherently challenging.

Affinity is bad game one, fine game 2 and 3. Souls is great, and so is some lifegain. Our removal is good, but heavily taxed. Zealous Persecution is really great there, and Stony Silence is downright mandatory. I'd also always bring in Resto; turn 3-4 Rhino, turn 4-5 Resto can get you out of lethal range and put some pressure on them.

Burn's fantastic. We've got a fast clock, great blockers, cheap removal, and plenty of life gain. I usually never kill Edillion; just put Finks, Voice, or Smiter and wait to draw Siege Rhino or additional Finks. Post board we've got lots of additional life gain in Thragtusk and Resto.

Cage is OP. Great against Coco decks of both varieties, great against Dredge. Keep in mind it stops your Finks and your Souls. I also play the best graveyard hate in the game, Rest in Peace. Good against us because it hits Voice, Scooze, Finks, and Souls. But you bring it in when it hurts them more than it hurts you. These days I'm thinking about playing either a 3rd RIP or 1 copy of Faerie Macabre. I don't think I need the 5th piece of graveyard hate yet, but the day might come. I'd like the 3rd RIP over the 3rd Cage.

You will not beat grindy GBx decks or decks like Zoo frequently enough if you don't have good sideboard for them. It's as simple as that; you'll be 65% game one, and 40% game two when Jund sideboards 10 cards and you've got nothing. Thragtusk is amazing: great against GBx, Zoo, Burn, and grindy blue deck. Restoraiton Angel is fantastic, and having 10 great targets after bringing in Thragtusk makes sure it's always producing additional value and keeping you ahead on board. Against grindy decks that don't have enough life total pressure, like Jund, Anguished Unmaking helps take pressure off of Path to answer all of their absurd 4+ drops, like Olivia, Huntmaster, Tasigur, Dark Dwellers, ect.

Not sure what to think on Merfolk. Mana dorks are great against their plan to attack your lands, and you've got great removal. Decay can free up lands or kill guys, Path is good. We've also got plenty of life gain and a swift clock to make the race winable. But they can curve out like a mother, and be surprisingly aggressive in how quickly they turn the corner. It's probably pretty close.

Living End dunks on me. Game 1 often is Scooze it or lose it, unless I can drop 3 Rhino's or something. Game 2-3 is only slightly better; Cage being useless means I've only got half my normal graveyard hate. Thragtusk helps buy time, Resto helps restore the Finks that survives a living end; but it's still a match-up I don't enjoy.

I think that about wraps it up. Any questions, feel free to ask. I love this deck, I've got thousands of games of it under my belt, and I've got it heavily foiled out. It's probably my favorite deck in the history of the game.

Cheers!

@LesBluets: I'll post my current list tonight or tomorrow.

@chaos21: I've been winning about 55%. AV is good, but I've won a large amount of games that go Turn 1 Mana Dork, they go turn 1 AV, I go turn 2 Smiter, I go turn 3 Rhino and win from there. If AV is a seriously problem, I'd play 2-3 copies of Painful Truths; our cards on average are so much more powerful than their cards. Voice, Finks, Souls, Rhino, Scooze, Thragtusk, Restoration Angel; these are all worth 1.5 to 2 cards. Anger of the God's is the only card I'm really worried about, at all. By playing less mana dorks, I find my draws are consistently better than were they were in the past. An AV that draws Bolt/Electrolize, Land, and Spell Snare/AV/Mana Leak is not particularly a 3 cards I'm worried about.

If I just wanted to destroy the deck I'd maindeck two copies of Brimaz instead of Finks. He's better against Nahiri and typically better against their removal in general. Turn 1 dork, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Brimaz makes Anger of the God's an awful card.

It's a loseable match-up, for sure, but I don't mind playing it. Blue deck in general really struggle against Little Kid in my experience playing the deck. Nahiri isn't a deck that I'd be scared of seeing multipul times in an event; I'm much more concerned about Tron, Affinity, Ad Nauseam, Boggles, and other decks that attack from angles we aren't directly beat to crush.

As for what a "great job" is, I frankly refuse to weigh in on petty flaming. I hold this community to a high standard of respect, and I'm thankful that we have moderators who enforce it.

I do agree that if I was expecting lots of dredge and coco, I'd play a copy or two of Anafenza.

Well, hopefully the flame war and personal attacks are done.

I play 4 Finks and I'd never cut any of them. Too important against burn and zoo, also great against BGx. I believe in my testing I had a 60% winrate against burn game 1, and that was heavily because of 4 main deck finks, with help from Scooze and Rhino. If I expected lots of burn, I'd sideboard Firewalker as well. My experience with Zoo playing Paths makes me really like Finks, because it gains life and buys time for our better cards to win us the game, or it takes a path and gives us a better chance of sticking a game-winning Rhino or Liege. I really value the incremental life-gain of Finks and Rhino. As I play Restoration Angel in the sideboard, I also think having more good targets for it in the main deck is fantastic

I'm also adamant that we're 45/55 at least against Grixis Delve and Nahiri America. I've played against the decks plenty of times, I've played America Control extensively in the past, and ran it against Little Kid 7-8 times or so. It's a very winable match-up if we draw decently and so do they. Depending on your sideboard, I find the match typically turns in our favor. Cards like Celestial Purge, Painful Truths, Thragtusk, and Sigarda, Host of Herons are amazing. I've found most of those decks run somewhere between 2 and 4 relevant board wipes post board. We can absolutely play around those with a decent draw, assuming they don't draw the nuts. Shockingly, most players don't draw the nuts.

I don't know if we're favored against URx control, but to say that we get slaughtered is simply not true based on the dozens of matches I've tested against them. I personally have a winning record, but that could be variance or opponent quality. But I feel like our threats match-up very well against their answers often enough for us to just win. If I was horribly concerned about the match-up, I'd add a handful of cards to the sideboard to try and tip it in our favor.

@chaos021: Yeah I had a buddy bring 4 in against me. What the hell was I supposed to do? Souls into Souls into 2 Lieges to race him? While he's gaining 4 life a turn, then 8? Yeah, it wasn't even close to winable. I wouldn't play more than 2 unless you had unique insight into the metagame though.

@Ageless127: I have not, I'm unsure about her. With Smiter, Finks, and Souls in the main we've already got amazing 3 drops that are good against a wide variety of decks and don't get bolted into oblivion. And from the side, I feel like there are better hate cards; removal for creature decks,Zealous Persecution and Wrath of God for swarmy decks like elves, and I'm not in love with the land effect; I'd rather play Fulminator.

If you just want to crush the mirror, I'd play 3-4 Blood Baron of Vizkopa in the sideboard. It's effectively unraceable and unkillable for this deck. Just save decay's for Ooze when able, and most decks play nothing that can interact with it in any way; creatures, removal; we've got nothing.

Has the upside of being good against Jund, very good against Junk, pretty good against Nahiri decks, playable against Zoo, ect. But against our deck, it steals games by itself.

Quote from whocansay »

Nevelo: I think cutting Thickets is almost certainly a very bad idea.

As for Painful Truths, i've said it a dozen times before and i'll keep saying it: Abzan Charm is so much better.

I did used to play 2 copies of Abzan Charm in the main deck. It was pretty good and versatile. I think it's better in this metagame, roughly as good depending on other sideobard cards against BGx decks, and worse against Blue decks. So it may very well be the type of draw we're looking for in terms of a 2 of sideboard card, as it's also really good against the Eldrazi.

Quote from Nevelo »

Hmm. The question is what to cut for Truths and whether or not those decks are even viable enough to warrant slots right now. BGx probably yes, but I think Wilt-Leaf Abzan is quite well positioned against them anyway (Smiter and Liege). As far as blue control style decks, I don't know if they are competitive enough right now to worry that much about.

Yeah I did some hard core testing about 6 months ago vs. Ried Duke's Jund. It was like 70% game one and 55% game two when I sideboared in 2 Thragtusk and 2 Resto, and Jund sided boared in about 9 cards. So even without any card advantage it was a good match-up. Easier, now that I play Celestial Purge, yet harder in the face of Kalitas.

I think as long as Eldrazi are running around, we don't need to worry about card advantage. Our guys do a reasonable amount of producing virtual card advantage anyway. When Eldrazi takes a hit, then we'll have to think about playing a few grindier cards.

Quote from Nevelo »

How about Painful Truths in the matchups we want card draw? What matchups do we want card draw?

Rhino is slow vs Affinity and Eldrazi. This might be the wrong choice, but I wanted to go lower.

We want draw against BGx, Non-Delver Blue decks, the Mirror/other Green White decks (hatebears ect.), and I'd say that's about it. In the matches where card draw is good, it's extremely powerful, but it's only good against so many decks.

I've played Harmonize before, it was pretty good. I actually don't know if it or Painful Truths are better in the matches where we want to draw cards; I'd assume Truths but Jund can be surprisingly aggressive and dying to Bolt-Snap-Bolt with this deck is humiliating, so I think there is merit to both.

@Arkaedrian: Until the Eldrazi are banned, we have to do our best to fight it. It's a completely winable match-up for us, so I think we're better off than most of the rest of the format.

Yeah, having 0 card draw is the decks weakness. I do what I can, trying to cut dead draws from the deck and running a lower land count, but it isn't always enough.

I'd be open to trying a sword depending on the metagame. I believe Wilson ran 2 in the sideboard in the decks debut.

Nice to see the lists guys, I love how everyone's trying different stuff.

@Arkaedrian: I'm unsure on cutting Souls out. Against Eldrazi, Affinity, and BGx decks it's really powerful. If you wanted to put Command and Pulse back in the main, I would look at the mana dorks and Scavenging Ooze from your list. Overall I do really like your build though.

@Velthov: Yeah I think swords could be strong in a twinless metagame where people aren't playing as many copies of Abrupt Decay. I most prefer Sword of Fire and Ice, but Light and Shadow is extremely powerful when you get it going as well.

Quote from whocansay »

How are those Stirring Wildwoods working out for you though? Seem terrible to me but I could be mistaken. And 4 Finks?

I've never played any number than 2 Wildwood. It's really important against control decks, as manlands are critical to playing around Cryptic Command. It's also the only creature with reach in the deck, adding to souls to protect from flying threats. Wildwood has never screwed me before, while I've lost plenty of games due to multiple Gavony Townships. So I have good experience with it.

As for Finks, I've been playing 3-4 of it since before Jacob Wilson showed off the deck, and I've been firmly on 4 for a few months. The life gain is extremely important in beating burn, where I feel relying on Siege Rhino is not enough. Against Zoo, Finks is just about the best card there is. Any kind of URx deck struggles against Finks, as it's a threat that's hard to remove and also makes the bolt-snap-bolt your face plan pretty bad. Against Liliana, it's the best card to sacrifice. By playing a mix of Finks and Voice, you can overextend into most boardwipes and still keep an aggressive board presence going (which Wildwood really helps with). Lastly, Finks gives Restoration Angel from the sideboard 10 great targets to produce value with (Finks, Rhino, Thragtusk).

@Arkaedrian: Those seems like valid criticisms. I like Lion as a hedge against BGx and Grixis decks, where I've found having a 2 drop that can be a 5/5 is very strong, and it's Monstrous power can end some games on the spot.

If you're planning on beating Eldrazi style decks, I'd keep the 4 Liege. If you're looking for a more versatile meta game, I'd cut the 4th Liege for the 1st Pulse 100% of the time.

As for the side, I feel like we need to have cards to bring in against BGx, UWR and Grixis, the Mirror, Zoo, and additional grindy decks. I like Restro and Thrag because their 2 for 1 creatures that present a swift clock, keep our life total high which allows to play the game aggressively. In addition, their strong top-decks in general, which is really important for a deck that plays 0 card draw and 0 card selection.

Now that said, I do looooove Zealous Persecution for the free, skillless wins it's given me. Fantastic card.

@AsrialX: I've played it in the side before. Sometimes you auto win when you drop it. So yeah, it's a strong option.

We did it everyone. Our decks way better now than before, good job us!

Joking aside, I've found the match-up against colorless Eldrazi to be about 50/50 or better after 25 test games. I played against the list LSV was using at the PT, and here's the version of my deck I played;



Against Colorless Eldrazi, you will lose to their insane opening hands. There's nothing you can do about 2 Mimics turn 1, and a Thought-Naught Seer on turn 2 and another on turn 3. You just lose.

But as for the actual games of magic you play, which are far more common than them going completely nuts, it's a good match-up. Our removal is fantastic against them to start with. Our creatures are as large or larger than most of what they play, specifically when we attack with exalted. The massive amounts of life gain ensure we're hard to race, and creatures like Voice, Finks, and Souls tokens are unappealing to attack into and turn 3 for 1 blocks into effective 1 for ones.

If the game goes late, we're very favored. We have superior topdecks in general, specifically the absolutely back-breaking power of Wilt-Leaf Liege. Liege turns Finks into a Reality Smasher killer, Smiter and Rhino into comical giants, and makes Souls exceptionally quick as a clock. Dismember is their only out to Liege, and we have other cards that demand removal.

Our clogged board states are just better than there's in the mid-late game, and because we play more removal to draw into, in addition to Liege and Souls, it's easier to break them.

In terms of speed, I'd like to mention again their nut draws slaughter us. But their normal draws are no faster than our normal draws. We can dump our hand by turn 4 or 5 easily enough, which keeps us in the game and threatening their life total/protecting our own.

At the end of the day, Eldrazi is probably stronger against the metagame. But I think Little Kid can beat colorless Eldrazi at least 50% of the time. And for me, that's a win, so I'm happy to sleeve this ol' boy up again after taking a short break to play Elves and America.