Hi, a friend lend me the deck for a GP Trial tomorrow, we will se how it goes.
Regarding the primer - I assume that it might not be up to date and that is has been discussed allready, but Aven Mindcensor is not a double edged sword at all, since it says "Oppenents"
that is true, however I just don't like Mindcensor in this deck at all. We are an agro deck and want to be beating down, not holding up 3 mana on our opponents turn. It's not good enough against Tron IMO and it is decent against Bloom but things like Thoughtseize are just better in it's place.
How do you guys beat Grishoalbrand? I had to play against it twice in the PPTQ over the weekend and I only won one game of five. Hallowed Moonlight, Leyline of Sanctity and Thoughtseize seems like the correct way to board against it but we seem quite weak against it by nature.
well mainboard Gaddock Teeg helps, as does Scavenging Ooze. Rule of Law, Grafdigger's Cage, and Rest in Peace also help. I have found with my decklist that it isn't that lopsided. They are still favored but not by much.
** I wanted 2 Engineered Explosives and 1 Restoration Angel for the SB but the vendor that usually is there was not. I forgot my other SB cards to just added the pact, melira, and pridemage to the SB as they were what I had.
Round 1: Burn
Game 1: On draw, but turn 2 voice stalled a goblin guide, then back to back Rhino's closed the game out.
Game 2(In: Thragtusk, Sorin, Pridemage Blood Baron, Out: 3 Liege, 1 Teeg): My lifegainers got hit with Atarka's Commands, Smiter got Deflecting Palmed, wasn't that close.
Game 2(In: 2 Thougtseize for Palm, Out: 1 Decay, 1 Lingering Souls): Opponent was on 2 mountains all game with a hand of commands and palms, fairly easy game as he couldn't cast much. 1-0(2-1)
Round 2: Mono-U Tron
Game 1: Don't remember much, got him down low, he overloaded a cyclonic rift, I replayed stuff, he tapped out for Wurmcoil and I drew a path and swung for lethal.
Game 2(In: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Pridemage, 1 Sorin, 1 Blood Baron, 1 Thragtusk, Out: 3 Liege, 1 Command, 2 Finks ): Thoughtseized out a Mana Leak to resolve a Voice, he tapped out for a Treasure Mage, Path the mage and played another voice. He landed an o-stone but I had the third voice to make it worthless. After his board-wipe I landed a Sorin and swung for lethal. 2-0(2-0)
Round 3: Mono White Death & Taxes
Game 1: He got the Anafenza and Kitchen Finks bolster combo out, never drew removal for Anafenza and he won.
Game 2:(In: Sorin, Thrag, Baron, Pridemage, Out: 2 Teeg, 1 Ooze, 1 Liege): Pridemaged his Aether Vial, he Leonin Arbiter and Ghost Quarter, Tec Edged a few lands but I had mana dorks and basically won with a Smiter backed with removal, won the game in like 2 minutes.
Game 3:(no changed): He landed turn 3 Mirran Crusader, I never drew a Path to Exile to kill it or a Lingering Souls to chump block. 2-1(1-2), * frustrated as I lost both games where if I drew one removal spell it was an easy win, this is a very favorable matchup
Round 4: Bloom
Game 1: Both mull to five, I curve out on him Voice, Smiter, Rhino, Township Activation and he just doesn't have anything
Game 2:(In; Pridemage, 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Rule of Law, Slaughter Pact, Zealous Persecution[for Hornet Queen], Out: 2 Ooze, 2 Rhino, 2 Souls): Turn 1 Amulet, Turn 2 Amulet, T3 dead
Game 3: He mulls to five again, I curve out on him Voice, Smiter, Rhino again. He gets Pact off getting Titan so I have one turn left. I draw Liege and win, even if he Pacted it I had the win as he had to pay for 2 pacts next turn. 3-1(2-1)
Round 5: B/W Tokens
Game 1: A lot of discard, followed up by tokens and anthems and I just can't win after he slams Sorin
Game 2:( In: Thrag, Baron, Pers, Pridemage, Sorin, Out: 3 Path, 1 Rhino, 1 Teeg): Get him down to three after curving Out on him and forcing him to chump for awhile, but he stabilized with chump blockers and I never find a Rhino to win, he lands a few anthems and the game is over. 3-2(0-2) * this matchup is draw dependant and we can win on the play, but it is still bad for us. If I had the engineered explosives I think I win easily.
Round 6: Scapeshift
Game 1: Curve out and get him low, but he gets out enough lands and revealed Scapeshift off Peer through Depths so I know I'm dead next turn and don't have lethal on board. Top-deck Gaddock Teeg which forces him to Snapmaster into Electrolyze to kill it. Gives me the extra turn I needed to swing for lethal.
Game 2(In: Baron, Thrag, 2 Thoughtseize, Sorin, Rule of Law, Out: 2 Finks, 3 Souls, 1 Command): I Thoughteize turn 1 revealing 2x Thrag, Tribe Elder, Electroylze, stomping grounds. He has a stomping grounds in play so I know he needs a blue source and more lands in general so I take tribe-elder. Turn 2 draw my second thoughtseize and take his electrolyze so if he draws blue he can't get card advantage to draw into more lands. He doesn't hit a land for a few turns and I curve out. He lands Thragtusk but I draw Sorin and swing for lethal. 4-2(2-0)
Overall I finished 11th place, and only one 4-2 got into the top 8 so I didn't really have a chance even though I thought I did. Overall the list performed great, aggressive enough to punish slow starts or bad keeps and just enough disruption to handle the combo decks. Gaddock Teeg was fantastic and I don't think I would change one card in my mainboard.
- The Pridemage out of the SB was great for me all day and I would love to play 2 in the SB to bring in when I take Teeg out, but it's hard to find room.
- I feel if I had the 2 Engineered Explosives and 1 Restoration Angel I wanted to play I could of won the whole tournament. Explosives would have been devastating against both the Tokens deck and the D&T's player I lost too.
- Overall a great deck, and with the SB I will be playing with in the future I think I can take down some tournaments with it. I was never dissatisfied with taking out the Aven Mindcensor's out of the SB as the matches they are good against we can't really win anyway.
thanks. I'd like to see the Affinity matchup as you don't really have any SB cards for the matchup or a resolved Etched Champion.
I think your're right with Aven Mindcensor and I might cut them. The matchups it's good against, it probably just isn't good enough to swing in our favor. Devoting those slots to cards that make our good matchups better is probably the better option.
I'll probably add a Restoration Angel and/or maybe a Ghostly Prison to help against the aggro decks. I like being proactive but Prison is so good vs aggro decks and is great against Jund/Abzan as it basically shuts down their manlands which is a source of card advantage for them.
Ranulf: Any changes you'd make after testing? Thoughts on why you don't have cards like Choke, Zealous Persecution, or Aven Mincensor in your SB? You also seem weak to Affinity with no out to Etched Champion
do you guys SB in Rest in Peace vs Grixis Delver and Grixis Control? Does it hurt them more than hurting our own Finks/Voice? I feel Voice is so good vs them it's not worth bringing in.
I'm thinking of cutting the Choke as most decks that run U only splash it and Choke isn't very good vs them, even Merfok is running Oboro and other lands to play around it. I'm thinking of adding a Wrath of God as just a reset button as with my planeswalker package and lingering souls I can rebuild faster than most agro decks.
thoughts on valorous stance? Seems great against the B/G/x decks, Grixis Control, etc. in killing Angler and Tasigur. Plus gives us some resilience against wraths.
Here is the list I've been crushing with on cockatrice the last two days. I'm 8-0 in matches playing Affinity, Infect, GriselShoal, Delver, Grixis Control, Kiki-Chord, Zoo, and Anafenza Company.
Thoughts on Mainboard:
- Gaddock Teeg is amazing, it's fantastic against our bad matchups and in the good matchups is still decent enough not to hurt us
- Scooze is great vs all the Delve, Snaps, and against Company decks and various graveyard decks and allows us to steal game 1's vs them
- I might have two many 4 drops, thinking of cutting a voice for a 4th finks. However I love voice as the tokens with Liege are amazing
- Because I cut to 22 lands, I cut a 4th Rhino, I'd like to be lower to the ground.
- Township is amazing, but only 2 because of 22 lands.
- 4 Smiter is a must, it's great vs all the remands going around and vs Grixis Control
Thoughts on SB:
- I feel our deck has good matchups against so many decks that all the 1-of cards just help solidify those matchups.
- Mindcensor, Thoughtseize, and Stony as only 2-of cards for Tron and Bloom matchup
- Fracturing Gust over Creeping Corrosion as it's instant speed to hit manlands and the lifegain is super important
- Sorin is double edged as it's great in the grindy matchups but also comes in vs aggro/burn
- Ajani is an experiment and might just be a Thragtusk, but in theory it lets us kill Bloom/Tron on T4 with the flying and doublestrike, flies over Wurmcoil as well.
did we just get demoted? I mean the deck won two trials at a recent GP, it was 9-0 on day 1 of a recent GP, and a few lists went 5-0 in the modern festivals.
that is true, however I just don't like Mindcensor in this deck at all. We are an agro deck and want to be beating down, not holding up 3 mana on our opponents turn. It's not good enough against Tron IMO and it is decent against Bloom but things like Thoughtseize are just better in it's place.
well mainboard Gaddock Teeg helps, as does Scavenging Ooze. Rule of Law, Grafdigger's Cage, and Rest in Peace also help. I have found with my decklist that it isn't that lopsided. They are still favored but not by much.
4 windswept heath
2 gavony township
2 temple garden
2 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 sunpetal grove
2 razorverge thicket
2 forest
1 plains
1 swamp
3 birds of paradise
3 noble hierarch
4 voice of resurgence
2 scavenging ooze
2 gaddock teeg
3 kitchen finks
4 loxodon smiter
3 siege rhino
3 wilt-leaf liege
3 abrupt decay
1 dromoka's command
3 lingering souls
2 thoughtseize
2 stony silence
1 zealous persecution
1 sorin, solemn visitor
1 blood baron of vizkopa
1 thragtusk
1 fracturing gust
1 rule of law
1 grafdigger's cage
1 rest in peace
1 melira, sylvok outcast
1 qasali pridemage
1 slaughter pact
** I wanted 2 Engineered Explosives and 1 Restoration Angel for the SB but the vendor that usually is there was not. I forgot my other SB cards to just added the pact, melira, and pridemage to the SB as they were what I had.
Round 1: Burn
Game 1: On draw, but turn 2 voice stalled a goblin guide, then back to back Rhino's closed the game out.
Game 2(In: Thragtusk, Sorin, Pridemage Blood Baron, Out: 3 Liege, 1 Teeg): My lifegainers got hit with Atarka's Commands, Smiter got Deflecting Palmed, wasn't that close.
Game 2(In: 2 Thougtseize for Palm, Out: 1 Decay, 1 Lingering Souls): Opponent was on 2 mountains all game with a hand of commands and palms, fairly easy game as he couldn't cast much.
1-0(2-1)
Round 2: Mono-U Tron
Game 1: Don't remember much, got him down low, he overloaded a cyclonic rift, I replayed stuff, he tapped out for Wurmcoil and I drew a path and swung for lethal.
Game 2(In: 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Pridemage, 1 Sorin, 1 Blood Baron, 1 Thragtusk, Out: 3 Liege, 1 Command, 2 Finks ): Thoughtseized out a Mana Leak to resolve a Voice, he tapped out for a Treasure Mage, Path the mage and played another voice. He landed an o-stone but I had the third voice to make it worthless. After his board-wipe I landed a Sorin and swung for lethal.
2-0(2-0)
Round 3: Mono White Death & Taxes
Game 1: He got the Anafenza and Kitchen Finks bolster combo out, never drew removal for Anafenza and he won.
Game 2:(In: Sorin, Thrag, Baron, Pridemage, Out: 2 Teeg, 1 Ooze, 1 Liege): Pridemaged his Aether Vial, he Leonin Arbiter and Ghost Quarter, Tec Edged a few lands but I had mana dorks and basically won with a Smiter backed with removal, won the game in like 2 minutes.
Game 3:(no changed): He landed turn 3 Mirran Crusader, I never drew a Path to Exile to kill it or a Lingering Souls to chump block.
2-1(1-2), * frustrated as I lost both games where if I drew one removal spell it was an easy win, this is a very favorable matchup
Round 4: Bloom
Game 1: Both mull to five, I curve out on him Voice, Smiter, Rhino, Township Activation and he just doesn't have anything
Game 2:(In; Pridemage, 2 Thoughtseize, 1 Rule of Law, Slaughter Pact, Zealous Persecution[for Hornet Queen], Out: 2 Ooze, 2 Rhino, 2 Souls): Turn 1 Amulet, Turn 2 Amulet, T3 dead
Game 3: He mulls to five again, I curve out on him Voice, Smiter, Rhino again. He gets Pact off getting Titan so I have one turn left. I draw Liege and win, even if he Pacted it I had the win as he had to pay for 2 pacts next turn.
3-1(2-1)
Round 5: B/W Tokens
Game 1: A lot of discard, followed up by tokens and anthems and I just can't win after he slams Sorin
Game 2:( In: Thrag, Baron, Pers, Pridemage, Sorin, Out: 3 Path, 1 Rhino, 1 Teeg): Get him down to three after curving Out on him and forcing him to chump for awhile, but he stabilized with chump blockers and I never find a Rhino to win, he lands a few anthems and the game is over.
3-2(0-2) * this matchup is draw dependant and we can win on the play, but it is still bad for us. If I had the engineered explosives I think I win easily.
Round 6: Scapeshift
Game 1: Curve out and get him low, but he gets out enough lands and revealed Scapeshift off Peer through Depths so I know I'm dead next turn and don't have lethal on board. Top-deck Gaddock Teeg which forces him to Snapmaster into Electrolyze to kill it. Gives me the extra turn I needed to swing for lethal.
Game 2(In: Baron, Thrag, 2 Thoughtseize, Sorin, Rule of Law, Out: 2 Finks, 3 Souls, 1 Command): I Thoughteize turn 1 revealing 2x Thrag, Tribe Elder, Electroylze, stomping grounds. He has a stomping grounds in play so I know he needs a blue source and more lands in general so I take tribe-elder. Turn 2 draw my second thoughtseize and take his electrolyze so if he draws blue he can't get card advantage to draw into more lands. He doesn't hit a land for a few turns and I curve out. He lands Thragtusk but I draw Sorin and swing for lethal.
4-2(2-0)
Overall I finished 11th place, and only one 4-2 got into the top 8 so I didn't really have a chance even though I thought I did. Overall the list performed great, aggressive enough to punish slow starts or bad keeps and just enough disruption to handle the combo decks. Gaddock Teeg was fantastic and I don't think I would change one card in my mainboard.
- The Pridemage out of the SB was great for me all day and I would love to play 2 in the SB to bring in when I take Teeg out, but it's hard to find room.
- I feel if I had the 2 Engineered Explosives and 1 Restoration Angel I wanted to play I could of won the whole tournament. Explosives would have been devastating against both the Tokens deck and the D&T's player I lost too.
- Overall a great deck, and with the SB I will be playing with in the future I think I can take down some tournaments with it. I was never dissatisfied with taking out the Aven Mindcensor's out of the SB as the matches they are good against we can't really win anyway.
I think your're right with Aven Mindcensor and I might cut them. The matchups it's good against, it probably just isn't good enough to swing in our favor. Devoting those slots to cards that make our good matchups better is probably the better option.
I'll probably add a Restoration Angel and/or maybe a Ghostly Prison to help against the aggro decks. I like being proactive but Prison is so good vs aggro decks and is great against Jund/Abzan as it basically shuts down their manlands which is a source of card advantage for them.
Vs CoCo our creatures aren't really bigger than there's, as Knight of the Reliquery is usually huge.
I might try to test out Evolutionary Leap in the SB. In the agro mirror it's just a removal fest and Leap could get us a lot of value.
Elspeth, Sun's Champion too expensive? Seems great vs the Angler/Tasigur decks and creates a brick wall on the ground vs zoo.
Collected Company gives them value that is hard to get back from, and with Merfolk; Kira, Great-Glass Spinner is very hard to beat.
I've noticed I've skewed my SB so hard to beat combo and Tron that I usually only SB in like 2 cards vs agro or midrange.
Not sure how to change my SB as I think I need 1-2 more cards vs agro or midrange.
This is my current SB:
2 thoughtseize
2 stony silence
1 rule of law
1 zealous persecution
1 grafdigger's cage
1 rest in peace
1 fracturing gust
1 choke
1 thragtusk
1 sorin, solem visitor
1 ajani, caller of the pride
I'm thinking of cutting the Choke as most decks that run U only splash it and Choke isn't very good vs them, even Merfok is running Oboro and other lands to play around it. I'm thinking of adding a Wrath of God as just a reset button as with my planeswalker package and lingering souls I can rebuild faster than most agro decks.
4 windswept heath
2 gavony township
1 sunpetal grove
2 razorverge thicket
2 temple garden
1 overgrown tomb
1 godless shrine
1 swamp
1 plains
2 forest
3 birds of paradise
3 noble heirarch
2 scavenging ooze
2 gaddock teeg
4 voice of resurgence
3 kitchen finks
4 loxodon smiter
3 siege rhino
3 wilt-liefe liege
3 abrupt decay
4 path to exile
1 dromoka's command
2 aven mindcensor
2 thoughtseize
2 stony silence
1 rule of law
1 zealous persecution
1 grafdigger's cage
1 rest in peace
1 fracturing gust
1 choke
1 slaughter pact
1 sorin, solem visitor
1 ajani, caller of the pride
Thoughts on Mainboard:
- Gaddock Teeg is amazing, it's fantastic against our bad matchups and in the good matchups is still decent enough not to hurt us
- Scooze is great vs all the Delve, Snaps, and against Company decks and various graveyard decks and allows us to steal game 1's vs them
- I might have two many 4 drops, thinking of cutting a voice for a 4th finks. However I love voice as the tokens with Liege are amazing
- Because I cut to 22 lands, I cut a 4th Rhino, I'd like to be lower to the ground.
- Township is amazing, but only 2 because of 22 lands.
- 4 Smiter is a must, it's great vs all the remands going around and vs Grixis Control
Thoughts on SB:
- I feel our deck has good matchups against so many decks that all the 1-of cards just help solidify those matchups.
- Mindcensor, Thoughtseize, and Stony as only 2-of cards for Tron and Bloom matchup
- Fracturing Gust over Creeping Corrosion as it's instant speed to hit manlands and the lifegain is super important
- Sorin is double edged as it's great in the grindy matchups but also comes in vs aggro/burn
- Ajani is an experiment and might just be a Thragtusk, but in theory it lets us kill Bloom/Tron on T4 with the flying and doublestrike, flies over Wurmcoil as well.