It seems to me that this deck is mostly dead, and will never come back into Tier 1 or 2. Traditional Abzan / Jund are just better overall against a wider variety of decks, and barring a heavy Jund/Abazan with control meta, I just don't see this deck making a come back.
I've decided to sell all my Siege Rhino, Wilt Leaf, Souls, Voice of Resurgence ect. and trade into Abzan Company.
Is this a good move or should I trade it into regular Abzan instead?
Thoughts?
I don't see how selling a bunch of cheap cards like Rhino, Souls and Liege is ever a good move.
The deck seems like it might be in a good place fairly soon. Fatal push could be a nice addition and it hurts the blazing fast decks. The new ban announcements hurt infect and suicide zoo. There could be a large uptick in mid-range decks (particularly GX mid-range), which are our best matchups.
What can I say, it looks like a bit of a pile honestly. Not wide enough to abuse Chord, not enough Lieges or Smiters to provide serious pressure, not enough Voices to force the opponent to play on his own turn, a whopping ten four-drops, no real use for Witness, not enough lifegain to offset the damage from fetches + shocks + three Thoughtseizes (why?).
Siege Liege is an aggro deck first and foremost, if you start diluting that you just end up with a much weaker version of Junk.
What I presented were the odds of having at least one creature w/4 power in your opening seven card hand, and those numbers are for both p=7 and p=8 on the play and draw. How are the numbers wrong?
So you're including Siege Rhino and Wilt-Leaf Liege? Because trying to live long enough to drop those AND then fire off Feed the Clan is just ridiculous. The game is close to done one way or the other by then (on average). Not to mention you've eschewed Kitchen Finks for Anafenza, the Foremost in your last, partially posted list. Most Wilted Abzan players aren't going to do that.
Turn 1 BOP / Hierarch, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Feed the Clan. If you can't survive until turn 3 then this discussion is even more pointless than I already assumed it would be when I initially bothered to reply.
Sweet jesus this thread has gotten pathetic - 'lol' and 'wow' aren't the best of ways to start a useful discussion.
Feed the Clan is amazing against Burn because it gives us the much-needed breathing room we need to stabilize and out-aggro them. No more, no less. Forcing them to deal an additional 10 damage before we scoop is huge.
If you're looking card advantage and more gas, why dont you use Lead the Stampede instead of painfull truths?
Because sometimes what I'm looking for doesn't have legs. I may be digging for removal or a sideboard spell, such as Rest in Peace or Zealous Persecution. In certain match-ups those spells are just as game-breaking for our opponents as some of our threats.
I guess I should've started with this then: What land would you cut? The obvious choice to me seems to be Razorverge Thicket, which seems bad.
...because?
Because not potentially shocking or bolting yourself in the early turns to play mana dorks is good. Otherwise, why bother playing Razorverge Thicket at all? You may as well play anything in that slot utility-wise.
We're an aggro deck. Potentially shocking myself to play dorks which I can then use to cast the rest of my stuff is fine if it helps me deal with the topdecking issue. We're not in it for the long game. We play Thicket because it does everything we need it to do. Canopy does the same and more.
So, 'again', I would cut Thicket.
Not caring about your life total doesn't work very well against Burn, Zoo or any other aggro deck, and they're not playing for a long game either.
We have Finks + Rhino to deal with that - board in Feed the Clan if you're still worried.
If you're looking card advantage and more gas, why dont you use Lead the Stampede instead of painfull truths?
Because sometimes what I'm looking for doesn't have legs. I may be digging for removal or a sideboard spell, such as Rest in Peace or Zealous Persecution. In certain match-ups those spells are just as game-breaking for our opponents as some of our threats.
I guess I should've started with this then: What land would you cut? The obvious choice to me seems to be Razorverge Thicket, which seems bad.
...because?
Because not potentially shocking or bolting yourself in the early turns to play mana dorks is good. Otherwise, why bother playing Razorverge Thicket at all? You may as well play anything in that slot utility-wise.
We're an aggro deck. Potentially shocking myself to play dorks which I can then use to cast the rest of my stuff is fine if it helps me deal with the topdecking issue. We're not in it for the long game. We play Thicket because it does everything we need it to do. Canopy does the same and more.
You can't compare canopy and painfull truths because canopy is a land and painful truth a sb card.
you have to compare canopy to another land like razorverge .
Exactly - it's not like you're forced to cut a nonland card to run Canopy. Let's be realistic here.
I don't see how selling a bunch of cheap cards like Rhino, Souls and Liege is ever a good move.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Unfortunately, they're Tron's best matchups too.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
As for KOTR, it allows you to put a land onto the battlefield directly provided it survives until next turn. Pulse can be played at any moment.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Also 8 manadorks is a hell of a lot, and not sure why you would run a whopping 2 Anafenza main.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
I've been on Gifts and Kiki Company for a while and I don't think Oath of Ajani is going to convince me to come back to Liege any time soon.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Siege Liege is an aggro deck first and foremost, if you start diluting that you just end up with a much weaker version of Junk.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Preaching to the choir.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Turn 1 BOP / Hierarch, turn 2 Smiter, turn 3 Feed the Clan. If you can't survive until turn 3 then this discussion is even more pointless than I already assumed it would be when I initially bothered to reply.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Feed the Clan is amazing against Burn because it gives us the much-needed breathing room we need to stabilize and out-aggro them. No more, no less. Forcing them to deal an additional 10 damage before we scoop is huge.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
We have Finks + Rhino to deal with that - board in Feed the Clan if you're still worried.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
We're an aggro deck. Potentially shocking myself to play dorks which I can then use to cast the rest of my stuff is fine if it helps me deal with the topdecking issue. We're not in it for the long game. We play Thicket because it does everything we need it to do. Canopy does the same and more.
So, 'again', I would cut Thicket.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
...because?
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Exactly - it's not like you're forced to cut a nonland card to run Canopy. Let's be realistic here.
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki
Abzan Traverse / Traverse Shadow / UR Kiki