With Eldrazi on the decline, Abrupt Decay takes care of the vast majority of what I care about killing in this format. Even against Eldrazi it hits Endless One, Reshaper, and Mimic.
2x Dismember is easy for this deck to utilize. Yeah we'll pay life for it sometimes. Scavenging Ooze and a mainboard Thragtusk help mitigate that. Murderous Cut is also great here. We will be able to deploy it for 2 mana quite regularly.
All that said, is this the best BGx option? Honestly probably not in the current iteration. We need to see how people tweak it. I think Junk is the strongest BGx deck currently.
Played around with this last night. It feels powerful. It is going to take some tweaking to get it where we want it I think. I am now on board with not running thopter combo. Without a way to easily search it up (like Muddle the Mixture) each half of that combo is dead. I would rather have a deck that has live top decks. Here is where I am leaning currently:
I need to pick up a couple Tarpits (I sold mine a bit ago) and probably a Lumbering Falls or two.
I recall when I ran Ashiok before that it completely decimated every creature deck I played against (which is the majority of the decks in Modern). I had a winning record against Tron because of Ashiok and Remand.
I am dropping Cryptic because it feels clunky and I don't like the mana in this shell.
The main matchup that is concerning is burn. Thragtusk will help. The matchup shouldn't really be much worse than Jund's I guess.
I ran his list before and loved it. It was great. Ashiok wasn't ideal though, I think Liliana would be better. I do like the idea of Cryptics with a couple more basics I think.
If I recall correctly, I ran Commands and a few Mana Leaks along with the IoKs. Thoughtseize were in the side for me.
edit: The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward not having the thopter combo. It seems smoother without I think. I am going to test both ways. 4x Ancestral Vision for sure though.
Well I think the question is, do we play both AV and Thopter, or just play AV and build to beat the other decks? I think AV will most likely be like TC but slower in terms of what it did to jund. They cant overcome the cardadvantage. With 4 decays we are well equipped against the new combo boogeyman. So is it really necessary to play it? List without it would look like this:
Not running Thopter Combo definitely gives us more room for counterspells/boardwipes and such. I am going to test a bit of both to see where I end up.
The thing I like about Thopter combo is it lets us skip out on Thragtusk and Courser for the lifegain, and it can take the spot of a manland or two if we want to run more basics or Darkslick Shores that don't come into play tapped.
Also, maybe I am blind, but are you not running Lilys in that list?
Yeah, I'm not convinced that Thopter/Sword is the way to go. I might try just playing BG splashing blue for AV and Jace.
I dunno. The reason Abzan was good was Lingering Souls and Siege Rhino. Jund has Dark Confidant and Lightning Bolt. BUG now has Ancestral Vision and Thopter Combo. AV and Thopter provide enough incentive to ditch Abzan and Jund, Jace doesn't quite do it for me.
That said, I could be off base.
There is a chance that AV is reason enough to take the Goyf/Bob/Lily shell and move to Blue.
Not usually on Sultai, but checking in to ask if there's any reason to be playing the Thopter-Sword combo -- it just seems like a good Ancestral/Lili/Goyf/Confidant shell with no potentially dead cards.
I was initially going to be not running the combo, but I think it is too good not to try. The lifegain is very relevant (no longer have to run Thragtusk or Baloths) and clogging the air with flyers is huge against Affinity and Infect.
I firmly believe that this will be the BGx deck of choice in the coming months.
The only thing I have to decide on is if I want counterspells in this deck at all. I am thinking not.
Starting to test this thing soon, let me hear what you think.
Look sweet, but I think you lack enough spells that affect the board. 3 decay, 1 pulse and 2 disfigure isn't enough for my liking. I'd want some stuff like Dismember that can take care of big guys. Possibly a Damnation also. If feeling spicy, could even use Sultai Charm. I'm not sure if there's room for Serum Visions and Ancestral Vision in the same deck. Also with the thopter-sword combo in the deck i'd probably just skip Tasigur as a threat since you already have goyf, the combo, and potential manlands for threats. Could replace 2 Tasigur with more lilianas or just more straight up removal (possibly a couple of counters or more discard?
Now that AV and Thopter Combo is available, that is the sole reason for me to splash blue in this deck. I think it is more powerful than splashing red in Jund, and I don't think counter spells are where we want to be.
That said, you are right, we need more board presence. I am already iffy on Serum Visions with AV.
I am going to be running 2x Damnation, 4x Decay, 3x Dismember, 1x Pulse as my removal spells. Disfigure in the sideboard.
Starting to test this thing soon, let me hear what you think.
Look sweet, but I think you lack enough spells that affect the board. 3 decay, 1 pulse and 2 disfigure isn't enough for my liking. I'd want some stuff like Dismember that can take care of big guys. Possibly a Damnation also. If feeling spicy, could even use Sultai Charm. I'm not sure if there's room for Serum Visions and Ancestral Vision in the same deck. Also with the thopter-sword combo in the deck i'd probably just skip Tasigur as a threat since you already have goyf, the combo, and potential manlands for threats. Could replace 2 Tasigur with more lilianas or just more straight up removal (possibly a couple of counters or more discard?
Now that AV and Thopter Combo is available, that is the sole reason for me to splash blue in this deck. I think it is more powerful than splashing red in Jund, and I don't think counter spells are where we want to be.
That said, you are right, we need more board presence. I am already iffy on Serum Visions with AV.
I am going to be running 2x Damnation, 4x Decay, 3x Dismember, 1x Pulse as my removal spells. Disfigure in the sideboard.
Starting to test this thing soon, let me hear what you think.
I like this list. I don't have copies of VP so I will be running an extra Lilly and 2x Scooze instead. Scooze will actually help against opposing Thopter combo decks. Maelstrom pulse will need to find a spot in my 75 as well.
Honestly I think AV is a 4off hit or miss, meaning you either run 4 or non. Still brewing for a good starting point list, most recent changes are 2 damnation out for 2 disfigure. Want to survive the early game.
Back when I ran this before, it was solid but the early game suffered. Disfigure and Dismember helped a lot. Also this deck just lost to man lands. Having an engine in Thopter Sword to make infinite flying blockers is great. Also with Thopter Sword we no longer need to run Swagtusk for the lifegain.
Why Countersquall? I find the 2 life irrelevant, so I just play Negate because I'd rather play the spell that's easier to cast.
In my testing I'm finding it very hard to beat the Snapcaster + K Command decks. These decks generate a lot of CA and just out-grind easily. At this point I consider gy hate to be a must for this deck. I'm playing 2 Nihil Spellbomb but wanted even more copies.
Countersquall's 2 damage surprisingly has won me several games. We have such a grindy deck that Countersquall then Snap - Countersquall really does some work.
And yeah I will be adjusting my sideboard to bring in some graveyard hate. Probably some Scavenging Ooze as well.
EDIT: Also Vendilion Clique added to the mainboard did a ton of work last night. Absolutely should be a part of this deck.
Went 3-1 last night. Beat Suicide Zoo 2-1, Beat BW Tokens 2-1, Beat a random Janky deck 2-0, and lost to Through the Breach/Goryo's Vengeance 0-2.
The Goryo deck was very beatable, but game 1 I had so many dead cards (Damnation, Maelstrom, Decay, etc.)
I boarded in 2x Countersquall, 1x Negate, 1x Thoughtseize, and 2x Fulminator Mage.
I had his hand completely stripped (he had an Emrakul in his hand along with a discard option) and I started on the aggressive. I was forced to play Jace AOT (he played Lilly and down ticked her to make me sacrifice Snapcaster) and down tick him so I could get more cards in my hand so I wouldn't have to discard the Cryptic I had been sitting on when she up ticks next turn (I only had CC in my hand). He top decked another Goryo's and won.
I had the game but can only fight top decks so well haha.
Overall the deck felt fantastic and has game against so many decks.
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I always forget about that. Yeah it does. Doesn't hit Kalitas, Olivia, or Gurmag, but pretty much everything else it is great against.
2x Dismember is easy for this deck to utilize. Yeah we'll pay life for it sometimes. Scavenging Ooze and a mainboard Thragtusk help mitigate that. Murderous Cut is also great here. We will be able to deploy it for 2 mana quite regularly.
All that said, is this the best BGx option? Honestly probably not in the current iteration. We need to see how people tweak it. I think Junk is the strongest BGx deck currently.
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2x Snapcaster Mage
1x Thragtusk
2x Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Mana Leak
3x Remand
2x Dismember
2x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Disfigure
I need to pick up a couple Tarpits (I sold mine a bit ago) and probably a Lumbering Falls or two.
I recall when I ran Ashiok before that it completely decimated every creature deck I played against (which is the majority of the decks in Modern). I had a winning record against Tron because of Ashiok and Remand.
I am dropping Cryptic because it feels clunky and I don't like the mana in this shell.
The main matchup that is concerning is burn. Thragtusk will help. The matchup shouldn't really be much worse than Jund's I guess.
If I recall correctly, I ran Commands and a few Mana Leaks along with the IoKs. Thoughtseize were in the side for me.
edit: The more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward not having the thopter combo. It seems smoother without I think. I am going to test both ways. 4x Ancestral Vision for sure though.
Not running Thopter Combo definitely gives us more room for counterspells/boardwipes and such. I am going to test a bit of both to see where I end up.
The thing I like about Thopter combo is it lets us skip out on Thragtusk and Courser for the lifegain, and it can take the spot of a manland or two if we want to run more basics or Darkslick Shores that don't come into play tapped.
Also, maybe I am blind, but are you not running Lilys in that list?
2x Snapcaster Mage
2x Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4x Ancestral Vision
4x Abrupt Decay
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
1x Thoughtseize
3x Thopter Foundry
2x Sword of the Meek
3x Dismember
2x Disfigure
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Damnation
Have no idea about the sideboard yet, but it will probably be full of counterspells and more discard.
I dunno. The reason Abzan was good was Lingering Souls and Siege Rhino. Jund has Dark Confidant and Lightning Bolt. BUG now has Ancestral Vision and Thopter Combo. AV and Thopter provide enough incentive to ditch Abzan and Jund, Jace doesn't quite do it for me.
That said, I could be off base.
There is a chance that AV is reason enough to take the Goyf/Bob/Lily shell and move to Blue.
I was initially going to be not running the combo, but I think it is too good not to try. The lifegain is very relevant (no longer have to run Thragtusk or Baloths) and clogging the air with flyers is huge against Affinity and Infect.
I firmly believe that this will be the BGx deck of choice in the coming months.
The only thing I have to decide on is if I want counterspells in this deck at all. I am thinking not.
Always forget about that one. Yeah a couple disfigure in the main would do it I think.
Hopefully we can just block for days with Thopters.
Now that AV and Thopter Combo is available, that is the sole reason for me to splash blue in this deck. I think it is more powerful than splashing red in Jund, and I don't think counter spells are where we want to be.
That said, you are right, we need more board presence. I am already iffy on Serum Visions with AV.
I am going to be running 2x Damnation, 4x Decay, 3x Dismember, 1x Pulse as my removal spells. Disfigure in the sideboard.
I like this list. I don't have copies of VP so I will be running an extra Lilly and 2x Scooze instead. Scooze will actually help against opposing Thopter combo decks. Maelstrom pulse will need to find a spot in my 75 as well.
Back when I ran this before, it was solid but the early game suffered. Disfigure and Dismember helped a lot. Also this deck just lost to man lands. Having an engine in Thopter Sword to make infinite flying blockers is great. Also with Thopter Sword we no longer need to run Swagtusk for the lifegain.
I don't think I will be doing 4 AV as well as 4 Serum Visions. Probably just two visions.
Definitely running the Thopter/Sword combo as well. This looks grindy as **** and I am super excited.
Countersquall's 2 damage surprisingly has won me several games. We have such a grindy deck that Countersquall then Snap - Countersquall really does some work.
And yeah I will be adjusting my sideboard to bring in some graveyard hate. Probably some Scavenging Ooze as well.
EDIT: Also Vendilion Clique added to the mainboard did a ton of work last night. Absolutely should be a part of this deck.
The Goryo deck was very beatable, but game 1 I had so many dead cards (Damnation, Maelstrom, Decay, etc.)
I boarded in 2x Countersquall, 1x Negate, 1x Thoughtseize, and 2x Fulminator Mage.
I had his hand completely stripped (he had an Emrakul in his hand along with a discard option) and I started on the aggressive. I was forced to play Jace AOT (he played Lilly and down ticked her to make me sacrifice Snapcaster) and down tick him so I could get more cards in my hand so I wouldn't have to discard the Cryptic I had been sitting on when she up ticks next turn (I only had CC in my hand). He top decked another Goryo's and won.
I had the game but can only fight top decks so well haha.
Overall the deck felt fantastic and has game against so many decks.