I was looking at your titan cloud list and I noticed how the triple black and double green adding blue would cause some serious rework on the mana base. with treetop village not fetchable i feel it could be replaced with lumbering falls losing trample to hexproof and maybe even stopping opposing ghost quarter, molten rain fx.
the tiny Kiora although not bolt proof, does have the coiling oracle fx built in, which is another card you could look at similar to growth spiral.
Yeah, the mana would have to completely change which would be a serious drawback, because the deck doesn’t care about Blood Moon really, and adding a 3rd color would make Blood Moon MUCH better against me. And that’s currently one of my favorite aspects of the deck, that it’s not very easy to “hate” out. I may put some effort into it at some point, but for now I really enjoy the way it’s running.
I do like the thought of Growth Spiral and Coiling Oracle in a “Big Sultai” type build though, without Death Cloud. Not sure what the payoffs are yet, but I’ve been rattling that idea around in my head for a while.
Sultai Reclamation took 39th at the latest Open and got some coverage too. I can't post a direct link to it at work, but I will later. Deck looks incredibly fun (and challenging) to pilot.
I have to say, I love how straightforward and no-nonsense that manabase is. Plus, all those shocklands work great with Reclamation.
Kiora? That's funny, I didn't think either of the Kiora planeswalkers were fast or good enough for modern. What makes you want to bring her in? (just curious)
I don't think either one of them is generically strong enough to see regular play since they aren't good enough for our "good stuff" deck, just fringe ideas really. I'm somewhat interested in testing Kiora, Master of the Depths next to Garruk Wildspeaker and Utopia Sprawl in a Big Sultai deck and see what happens.
How are you all liking Sultai compared to The Rock right now? Sultai looks like a lot of fun to play, but just green/black looks a bit more consistent.
As much as I love BUG, I’m currently on GB right now. I can’t bring myself to play a deck that relies so heavily on the yard at the moment. I’m on more of a Big GB deck though, so it’s not really the same thing. It is nice not being so easily hated out though.
If I were to go back to BUG in the near future, I’d probably try something similar to what I’m playing now, but with Growth Spiral, Nissa Steward of the Elements, Kiora, maybe a big blue finisher alongside Primeval Titan.
It's good to see our lists all starting to converge. Here's what I'm locked into playing for the next month. I want to get data on a couple flex spots and how well they're performing, specifically the Dismember over the 4th Fatal Push, adding a Treetop Village to go up to 20 lands, and testing a 3/3 discard split.
Disdainful stroke has some applications against scaepshift (scapeshift, titan), jeskai (cryptic command, teferi and jace), and there are few other things it hits.
This. It serves largely the same purpose Ceremonious Rejection does, but has greater flexibility in more matchups. I'm willing to be slightly less mana efficient for that personally.
Interesting list, what's the take from this list? 24 lands with 4 manlands. 6 walkers in total. only 12 creatures. only 5 discard spells. Dismember over Cast Down?
He posted his list and matchups he faced in the ModernBUG subreddit, if you want to ask him anything, or I can too if you like.
I've seen Nissa, Steward of Elements being mentioned a few times before. Curious to hear if she is any good in a modern shell like this.
I played her from the board vs. UB control in standard when countermagic vs. creatures for the Scarab God was a thing.
What would you cut for her?
I like Nissa on her own, but I especially like Nissa when paired with Courser of Kruphix for perfect information for her 0 ability the turn we cast her. I made room in my list by cutting a Serum Visions, since her +2 is a similar effect.
What do you think the decks need and where would you slot them in?
I want a playable, maindeckable modal spell like Kolaghan's Command that's reasonably costed. Silumgar's Command could have been it, but was too overcosted, even for Standard.
what made you guys play sultai over abzan/jund/..?
I originally built into Jund and Abzan back in the day, but something about the decks just didn't quite speak to me. The first BUG list I played was Caleb Durward's: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/modern-bug/
Stubs and Snapcaster were fun, but the deck was a little clunky with 3 Tasigurs.
Courser and Jace were favorite cards from standard, and combined with Goyf and LotV, there was a deck I could truly get behind.
I had been playing variations of it for most of my time in Modern until recently when I went all-in on the delirium plan, inspired by this Jadoth list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532
It was certainly an interesting list that could grind with the best of them and had a scary late game, but I missed LotV too much. Reddit and Salvation have modified the deck to be much lower to the ground and aggressive, somewhere between a Death's Shadow deck and BUG Midrange, and it's that middle ground that I really enjoy playing today.
I should add, I swapped the 4th Bauble for a singleton Walking Ballista and it has been playing well, so you converted me and I'm officially on the Ballista hype train now.
Yeah, Kalitas is putting in a ton of work for me too, and I think this is one of the better metas we've had for him in a while with Humans being on top. It's a must-answer threat for them the turn he comes down or it's probably lights out.
Just read an article that explains why the Jund Traverse lists don't run Bauble, and I can't believe I didn't see it. Because they're running BBE, Bauble wouldn't be the greatest hit from cascade. Makes perfect sense because they already have enough bad hits in turn 1 discard.
If I had to guess, it probably has something to do with it not replacing itself if you cast it for 0. With Bauble and Architects of Will, at least you're not down a card on your way to delirium. It makes me wonder if Ballista is best served as a singleton to Traverse for when you need those final points of damage like you stated.
I find it interesting that these 4C/Jund lists we've started to see pop up on leagues prefer Architects of Will over Bauble too. Traditionally we've seen something like a 3/1 split in BUG, favoring Baubles, as paying for the cycling mana makes a difference in the first few turns of the game in an aggressive meta.
I do like the thought of Growth Spiral and Coiling Oracle in a “Big Sultai” type build though, without Death Cloud. Not sure what the payoffs are yet, but I’ve been rattling that idea around in my head for a while.
I have to say, I love how straightforward and no-nonsense that manabase is. Plus, all those shocklands work great with Reclamation.
http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/127742
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (24)
1 Forest
3 Island
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Watery Grave
4 Wilderness Reclamation
4 Assassin's Trophy
1 Blue Sun's Zenith
4 Cryptic Command
4 Growth Spiral
4 Hieroglyphic Illumination
2 Mystical Teachings
1 Nexus of Fate
2 Pulse of Murasa
4 Remand
2 Torrential Gearhulk
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Crypt Incursion
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Devour Flesh
2 Fatal Push
2 Life Goes On
2 Surgical Extraction
If I were to go back to BUG in the near future, I’d probably try something similar to what I’m playing now, but with Growth Spiral, Nissa Steward of the Elements, Kiora, maybe a big blue finisher alongside Primeval Titan.
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Polluted Delta
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Watery Grave
1x Breeding Pool
2x Blooming Marsh
1x Creeping Tar Pit
1x Treetop Village
2x Swamp
1x Forest
1x Island
// Planeswalker (4)
3x Liliana of the Veil
1x Liliana, the Last Hope
4x Mishra's Bauble
// Creature (13)
4x Tarmogoyf
4x Grim Flayer
3x Snapcaster Mage
1x Scavenging Ooze
1x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
// Instant (8)
3x Fatal Push
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Cast Down
1x Dismember
// Sorcery (11)
4x Traverse the Ulvenwald
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
3x Thoughtseize
1x Maelstrom Pulse
2x Collective Brutality
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Disdainful Stroke
2x Negate
1x Golgari Charm
1x Damnation
1x Fulminator Mage
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Kitchen Finks
1x Reclamation Sage
1x Shriekmaw
Stubs and Snapcaster were fun, but the deck was a little clunky with 3 Tasigurs.
I evolved the deck for a little bit, but it wasn't until I came across Justin Pasquino's deck tech that I truly fell in love with BUG:
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/sultai_control_with_justin_pas.html
Courser and Jace were favorite cards from standard, and combined with Goyf and LotV, there was a deck I could truly get behind.
I had been playing variations of it for most of my time in Modern until recently when I went all-in on the delirium plan, inspired by this Jadoth list: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/569532
It was certainly an interesting list that could grind with the best of them and had a scary late game, but I missed LotV too much. Reddit and Salvation have modified the deck to be much lower to the ground and aggressive, somewhere between a Death's Shadow deck and BUG Midrange, and it's that middle ground that I really enjoy playing today.
I find it interesting that these 4C/Jund lists we've started to see pop up on leagues prefer Architects of Will over Bauble too. Traditionally we've seen something like a 3/1 split in BUG, favoring Baubles, as paying for the cycling mana makes a difference in the first few turns of the game in an aggressive meta.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1090346
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/1084938