New to the dredge primer. I've been brewing a lot with dredge since shadows over innistrad came out, and came up with a list that is similar to how the dredge variant in legacy works. I have not seen this idea anywhere else, but I'm sure the idea has been discussed somewhere.
The main goal of the deck is to simple dump your library into the yard as fast as possible. I've gold-fished and done this by turn 3 (like 40 cards in gy), but the list has consistency issues, and the numbers need adjustments ( i'm pretty sure this is not 60 cards). Additionally, It needs some sort of grind plan to allow to disrupt the opponents game plan long enough for us to combo off. sideboard ideas would be appreciated.
I'll walk through how the "Magical Christmas Land" scenario plays out. You start by casting faithless looting and getting a dredger in the yard, or using Insolent Neonate to dredge and hopefully hit a second dredger. After that, you use things like tormenting voice and Goblin Lore to dredge a large portion of your deck. By turn 3, you play your third land and play a looting from the yard, and hopefully have a large portion of your deck in the graveyard at this point. Keep in mind, you are also always dredging on all your draw steps, or doing this when appropriate.
Now this is where the combo comes in. On turn 4, after you have a large portion of your deck in the graveyard, you pass and keep up 3 mana. At the end of your opponents second main phase, you bring Drownyard Temple from your graveyard into play, and then trigger bloodghast. When it's their end step, Prized Amalgam triggers, and you return them into play. Now it's your turn, and you can dredge on your draw step if you feel it's necessary. You then cast 2 gravecrawlers from your graveyard, triggering vengevines. You then move to combat, and proceed to attack with bloodghasts, vengevines, and Prized Amalgams for a hopefully lethal amount of damage. Since we're still assuming this is magical christmas land, you have the ability to attack with 36 power, which should be lethal. On a side note, this deck does have the ability to have mini combos. Bringing back 3 bloodghast and 3 amalgam is sometimes good enough depending on the match up.
This of course is not going to happen every game. The list is going to be clunky, and you might have to use life from the loam to get your third land sometimes. If there is someway to give it more of a grind game, or improve its consistency, then it might be a thing. But until then, it's more of a concept than anything. Additionally, like a lot of all in dredge lists, graveyard hate hurts this deck a ton, so keep that in mind. thoughts?
I like this list, but still am unsure about the drownyard. I actually thought about putting one in my deck but the 3 mana cost to bring it back for a colorless mana seems like it wouldn't be worth. I get the ability to combo on their turn, but honestly I don't think it really matters that much with this deck. Leaving 3 land open would be good if it also allowed you the option of playing some instant spells to interact with your opponent, but merely comboing on their turn brings creatures back to the battlefield that can't block either way. The big benefit I guess is they wouldn't be susceptible to burn spells. Even then, it would still only be a last resort situation. But I do like the build otherwise. Have you thought about wild guess instead of goblin lore? It's two R but it allows you to selectively discard.
Does kitchen finks persist trigger bring back prized amalgam?
Yeah it does technically. But the curve is 2 in this deck, so finks may not be the most useful card. Interesting idea though for sure. I like the idea of doing an undying combo (of course the second i do it, my opponent would just path to exile all of my cool *****).
I played this deck a year ago and absolutely loved it. I still don't know why I sold it, because it was so much fun... I am buying back in.
So I am looking at the newest tech and I have some questions:
I see Prized Amalgam and Insolant Neonate in these lists. Are these cards just that good? No more Gurmag Angler? I see some folks are talking about the mana being kind of awkward... is this normally the case?
Has Darkblast fallen out of favor?
I have always been a Lightning Bolt guy over Lightning Axe. I am just that guy.
Anyway, thanks for your time, and thanks for keeping a fun deck alive (or undead).
The amalgams are a good addition. They are a slower vengevine, but easier to get on the battlefield. Neonate's are a great addition but by no means dispositive of the deck's performance. You do need to cast two creature spells to get vines out, and with a mana curve of around 2 these guys are a good option. A body that allows you to discard, draw, and helps vine out for 1. Pretty sweet deal. In terms of the lightning bolt, the deck focuses around using your graveyard as an additional hand. So cards that allow you to selectively discard while also receiving another benefit is huge. Bolts are still great though and will work really well.
Angler is still viable but it really depends on your deck. If you honestly want to focus on the graveyard, there are not going to be a lot of options to delve none-grave yard functioning cards. Angler is still a beast though, and that build is still viable (well, as viable as a dredgevine deck can be).
This deck really has a lot of options and play styles. I saw someone in here not running any actual dredge and instead focusing on the discard which seemed like a cool idea.
Hmm, I'm not opposed to it. Which new cards specifically? Most of the madness stuff I saw didn't really fit as well. The prized amalgam seems like it might be good.
Yeah, I was basically considering Amalgam and maybe some Neonates to help getting things to the graveyard.
Btw, I only realized you were playing the combo too after I've already posted haha. How are you feeling about Vexing Devil on your list?
Btw, I tried Golgari Thug for a while and it felt a bit unimpressive. Even with the combo on my list I just prefered to mill more cards with Stinkweed Imp and Golgari Grave Troll.
The vexing devils are pretty awesome. It is a good early aggression tool and is a cheap mana cost to get vine on the board. He works well with golgari thug as a chump blocker to replay it. Devil is a little less viable now that I took out varolz. He used to be a great scavenge target.
I like the options having a thug provides. I actually dont run the grave troll. I tried it out and while I like his dredge numbers, I feel like stinkweed & thug are a more viable option as I can hard cast them if I need to depending on how the game is going. I'll likely never cast a grave troll and even if I did it isn't that great of a card on the battlefield.
Hmm, I'm not opposed to it. Which new cards specifically? Most of the madness stuff I saw didn't really fit as well. The prized amalgam seems like it might be good.
Switch out all of the check lands for a set of Verdant Catacombs. Add in Prized Amalgam and Bloodghast, and get rid of the combo. That should make your keeps more stable and graveyard recursion more reliable.
What do you think about adding in a couple sin prodder? Too slow?
Hmm, I'm not opposed to it. Which new cards specifically? Most of the madness stuff I saw didn't really fit as well. The prized amalgam seems like it might be good.
Switch out all of the check lands for a set of Verdant Catacombs. Add in Prized Amalgam and Bloodghast, and get rid of the combo. That should make your keeps more stable and graveyard recursion more reliable.
I really like this idea. I ran bloodghast initially but didn't get much out of him. I think the amalgam is a huge addition - basically a poor man's vengevine!
Hmm, I'm not opposed to it. Which new cards specifically? Most of the madness stuff I saw didn't really fit as well. The prized amalgam seems like it might be good.
Can you guys evaluate my version of dredgevine and maybe give me some advice on what to change up? I haven't tried it at a modern Monday yet, but I tried a different variation of this and went 1-3.
I like this list, but still am unsure about the drownyard. I actually thought about putting one in my deck but the 3 mana cost to bring it back for a colorless mana seems like it wouldn't be worth. I get the ability to combo on their turn, but honestly I don't think it really matters that much with this deck. Leaving 3 land open would be good if it also allowed you the option of playing some instant spells to interact with your opponent, but merely comboing on their turn brings creatures back to the battlefield that can't block either way. The big benefit I guess is they wouldn't be susceptible to burn spells. Even then, it would still only be a last resort situation. But I do like the build otherwise. Have you thought about wild guess instead of goblin lore? It's two R but it allows you to selectively discard.
Yeah it does technically. But the curve is 2 in this deck, so finks may not be the most useful card. Interesting idea though for sure. I like the idea of doing an undying combo (of course the second i do it, my opponent would just path to exile all of my cool *****).
The amalgams are a good addition. They are a slower vengevine, but easier to get on the battlefield. Neonate's are a great addition but by no means dispositive of the deck's performance. You do need to cast two creature spells to get vines out, and with a mana curve of around 2 these guys are a good option. A body that allows you to discard, draw, and helps vine out for 1. Pretty sweet deal. In terms of the lightning bolt, the deck focuses around using your graveyard as an additional hand. So cards that allow you to selectively discard while also receiving another benefit is huge. Bolts are still great though and will work really well.
Angler is still viable but it really depends on your deck. If you honestly want to focus on the graveyard, there are not going to be a lot of options to delve none-grave yard functioning cards. Angler is still a beast though, and that build is still viable (well, as viable as a dredgevine deck can be).
This deck really has a lot of options and play styles. I saw someone in here not running any actual dredge and instead focusing on the discard which seemed like a cool idea.
The vexing devils are pretty awesome. It is a good early aggression tool and is a cheap mana cost to get vine on the board. He works well with golgari thug as a chump blocker to replay it. Devil is a little less viable now that I took out varolz. He used to be a great scavenge target.
I like the options having a thug provides. I actually dont run the grave troll. I tried it out and while I like his dredge numbers, I feel like stinkweed & thug are a more viable option as I can hard cast them if I need to depending on how the game is going. I'll likely never cast a grave troll and even if I did it isn't that great of a card on the battlefield.
What do you think about adding in a couple sin prodder? Too slow?
I really like this idea. I ran bloodghast initially but didn't get much out of him. I think the amalgam is a huge addition - basically a poor man's vengevine!
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Vengevine
4 Vexing Devil
4 Gravecrawler
2 Death's Shadow
2 Golgari Thug
2 Stinkweed Imp
1 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Spells 15
4 Faithless Looting
2 Thoughtseize
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Grisly Salvage
2 Life from the Loam
2 Become Immense
2 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
2 Cavern of Souls
1 Forest
4 Overgrown Tomb
2 Rootbound Crag
1 Stomping Ground
1 Swamp
1 Temple of Malady
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Woodland Cemetery
2 Vines of the Vastwood
2 Abrupt Decay
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Back to Nature
2 Feed the Clan
2 Dosan the Falling Leaf
2 Golgari Brownscale
1 Vengeful Pharaoh