Out of curiousity, anyone here tried using Flamewake Phoenix before? It's got flying natively and it's abilities have some synergy with vengevine, so I'm assuming it might have been explored before.
I played 3 copies of Flamewake Phoenix in my Jund version of Dredgevine and I liked it a lot. As you said, flying (and haste) is wonderful. What is not so good is: another creature that cannot block, has to attack into blockers it opponent has a big flier, ferocious is not automatic in this deck and the bird does not come back for free - you have to spend a lot of red mana. It makes your deck move more to the red colors. Also, it is another good host for 13 counters from Varolz, the Scar-Striped and Death's Shadow. I enjoyed happy times with the phoenix but I did not feel it made my deck more competitive
1-drop? Check.
Evasion? Check.
Interaction to help Vines get through? Check.
Can use graveyard synergy to lock your opponent out of the game? Check.
I really like the idea. However, I am afraid that having Delirium may not be easy to achieve with our deck full of creatures. Maybe Sinister Concoction could help with that.
Just wondering why do many Jund-Dredgevine lists not play bloodghast. I get that its not a zombie so you can't bring back gravecrawlers but it seems like reanimating things for free (a land drop) with the already present dredge strategy can't be bad.
I played Bloodghast in the beginning and I dropped him. It is quite hard to cast him from hand and get some value. 2/1 for two is to weak. I know I know, if you manage to put two or more into your graveyard fast enough, it will get interesting. But it did not happen often enough in my case. Satyr Wayfinder is my favorite two-drop now.
I'm trying to find room for some Satyr Wayfinders to help make it a bit more explosive, but I am not sure what to take out.
I would take Bloodghasts out. They do not play well with Vengevine and are weak after T3 if you cannot clear the way for them. Also, with 20 lands, they spend a lot of happy times in your graveyard.
I'd also be the first to admit I know very litte I know about how often you'd actually want to flashback looting.
Based on my experience, I flashback looting usually when my draws are not going as they should. For ex. after casting salvage, looting ends up in my GY instead of my hand and just after that I draw VV. Or I draw multiple lootings as the game goes and have nothing to discard - Flashing the looting in GY back does not cost me another card in hand.
I'd love to hear opinions on my Faithless Looting replacement in Ideas Unbound, a card I stumbled across while trawling gatherer that I've never really seen discussed.
I think that "at the end of turn" can be actually a drawback in this deck. You cannot discard and revive in one turn, which can be problem in later stage of game.
Lack of flashback is big drawback.
Still, I understand your focus on mana base.
Thanks, your expansion helps me to learn. I was often thinking on thoughtseize. It's great card and something my deck could do T1, since I don't have looting. However, I always try to focus on creatures in this deck. The deck is about casting two creatures a turn.
By discard, do you mean cards like Thoughtseize? I can imagine playing that.
As for Bow of Nylea, this is not a good card and I will probably get rid of it once I go over the love affair
Originally, it should help against burn, mill, delver and creature decks full of big blockers. Phyrexian Revoker is the needle with legs, so it is easier to look up in this deck. It also dies easier than needle however. It is there to fight Relic of Progenitus, planeswalkers and much more ugly things.
Why not red btw? You lose speed, efficiency, and cards that make our deck work. GB is too slow to compete and lacks the tools to beat decks.
As I said, I used to play R as well. That was before everybody came either with Eldrazi or Blood Moon. I want to try this build for a while.
I say no to stockpile.
OK, I get you don't like it. Any reasons? I think it could work in a slower build but we will see.
Switch 2 Woodland Cemetery for other fetches, ones that can grab black sources. This will help stabilize the manabase and prevent awkward tapped lands starting turn 1.
This makes sense.
I'd consider a Life from the Loam mainboard to help hit land drops since you don't have discard. This means you will be hard casting more often than normal. Your curve is low enough that 20 lands is sufficient, so I'd transfer a forest for the fourth Gurmag Angler.
As you see, I have too few ways how to cycle additional Anglers. Maybe stockpile could help here
Maelstrom Pulse is 3 CMC and sorcery speed. You need artifact removal as Affinity is huge, so toss in 2 Nature's Claim. It's cheap catch all for artifacts/enchantments.
I do not have much experience playing against affinity. I plan to fight that deck with Engineered Explosives, Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. It may be to slow, I understand. I may switch pulses for claims in the end.
Hello there fellow vine-dredgers!
I started to play Dredgevine some time ago. I used to play Jund build with Flamewake Phoenixes. Now I am trying to cut off all expendable colors, so I ended up with BG build listed below. I didn't have a chance to test it at a local tournament yet but I am happy with the build. It is simpler to play and fun at the same time. It has just one obvious problem. It lacks Faithless Looting which reduces the consistency a bit. The only discard outlet is Lotleth Troll and that is so few. I need to mulligan a bit more, since I don't want to play with Vengevines in my hand.
Now the question comes. What do you think about Necromancer's Stockpile being a Troll number five and maybe six?
I played 3 copies of Flamewake Phoenix in my Jund version of Dredgevine and I liked it a lot. As you said, flying (and haste) is wonderful. What is not so good is: another creature that cannot block, has to attack into blockers it opponent has a big flier, ferocious is not automatic in this deck and the bird does not come back for free - you have to spend a lot of red mana. It makes your deck move more to the red colors. Also, it is another good host for 13 counters from Varolz, the Scar-Striped and Death's Shadow. I enjoyed happy times with the phoenix but I did not feel it made my deck more competitive
Actually, there is no Looting and no removal in taptwo's list.
I really like the idea. However, I am afraid that having Delirium may not be easy to achieve with our deck full of creatures. Maybe Sinister Concoction could help with that.
I played Bloodghast in the beginning and I dropped him. It is quite hard to cast him from hand and get some value. 2/1 for two is to weak. I know I know, if you manage to put two or more into your graveyard fast enough, it will get interesting. But it did not happen often enough in my case. Satyr Wayfinder is my favorite two-drop now.
Or you can drop a GG troll, since you are adding another mill effect.
I would take Bloodghasts out. They do not play well with Vengevine and are weak after T3 if you cannot clear the way for them. Also, with 20 lands, they spend a lot of happy times in your graveyard.
Based on my experience, I flashback looting usually when my draws are not going as they should. For ex. after casting salvage, looting ends up in my GY instead of my hand and just after that I draw VV. Or I draw multiple lootings as the game goes and have nothing to discard - Flashing the looting in GY back does not cost me another card in hand.
I think that "at the end of turn" can be actually a drawback in this deck. You cannot discard and revive in one turn, which can be problem in later stage of game.
Lack of flashback is big drawback.
Still, I understand your focus on mana base.
As for Bow of Nylea, this is not a good card and I will probably get rid of it once I go over the love affair
Originally, it should help against burn, mill, delver and creature decks full of big blockers.
Phyrexian Revoker is the needle with legs, so it is easier to look up in this deck. It also dies easier than needle however. It is there to fight Relic of Progenitus, planeswalkers and much more ugly things.
As I said, I used to play R as well. That was before everybody came either with Eldrazi or Blood Moon. I want to try this build for a while.
OK, I get you don't like it. Any reasons? I think it could work in a slower build but we will see.
This makes sense.
As you see, I have too few ways how to cycle additional Anglers. Maybe stockpile could help here
Yes.
Ground Seal is just great. Cantrips, shuts down Surgical Extraction and makes Snapcaster Mage look silly.
I do not have much experience playing against affinity. I plan to fight that deck with Engineered Explosives, Abrupt Decay and Maelstrom Pulse. It may be to slow, I understand. I may switch pulses for claims in the end.
Thanks a lot.
I started to play Dredgevine some time ago. I used to play Jund build with Flamewake Phoenixes. Now I am trying to cut off all expendable colors, so I ended up with BG build listed below. I didn't have a chance to test it at a local tournament yet but I am happy with the build. It is simpler to play and fun at the same time. It has just one obvious problem. It lacks Faithless Looting which reduces the consistency a bit. The only discard outlet is Lotleth Troll and that is so few. I need to mulligan a bit more, since I don't want to play with Vengevines in my hand.
Now the question comes. What do you think about Necromancer's Stockpile being a Troll number five and maybe six?
My list is here (without the stockpile)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Death's Shadow
4 Gravecrawler
3 Gurmag Angler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Stinkweed Imp
2 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
4 Vengevine
Other Spells (9):
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Evolutionary Leap
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Forest
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Swamp
1 Treetop Village
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Wooded Foothills
4 Woodland Cemetery
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bow of Nylea
1 Darkblast
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Golgari Charm
1 Ground Seal
2 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Unravel the Aether