For what it's worth, I really like Stitchwing Skaab as a 1-2 of in here. It's one of the most reliable ways to get back vengevines via double gravecrawlers, and is a decent beater from the graveyard in it's own light. It's also a reliable means of triggering Amalgams without having to rely on landfall triggers.
I've been playing 2x Amalgam and a singleton Fatestitcher in my Grixis (green splash) variant.
If you're playing with reliable blue mana, the Skaab is a reasonable 1-of. My Jund list runs Prized Amalgam without blue mana, though. I always play a singleton Rotting Rats to ensure nothing too undesirable gets stuck in my hand.
That list is very similar to what I'm running. It is the most consistent graveyard aggro list in the format right now. Hard dredge is cute and sometimes unbeatable, but I agree pretty well exactly with your list. (I cut a pair of Lotleth Trolls for more interaction, but they are otherwise identical.)
I've run Dakmor Salvage in the past and not been happy with it. Dredging 2 is just too little, and entering tapped for only one colour is awful for a fast deck. Loam is far more flexible and a better dredger. For late-game Bloodghast guarantees, I'm actually somewhat interested in Drownyard Temple since it doesn't replace a dredge draw, and is technically ramp. On the other hand, the deck requires so little colourless mana that might fall short too.
To bad Dread Return is banned... The deck basically builds itself lol.
I think this is still doable, but maybe you're right that Dread Return - Cabal Therapy - Bridge from Below are necessary pieces. I'm brewing up something in the Deck Creation forum. Oh Dredge. Wai you so broken?
The Gitrog Monster makes we want to include a reanimation package in my deck again. With this on the board, all we have to do is get a single land into our grave and we basically get to dredge away our whole deck, since we will almost all the time hit a land with dredge 5 or 6. The only problem is getting access to white mana for Unburial Rites.
Maybe there's the possibility of a BGW shell with Bloodghast, Prized Amalgam, Life from the Loam, mana dorks, and this card for a more all-in style of Dredgevine: Get the Monster and Unburial Rites in the grave, reanimate it, dump your entire library, get back a bunch of Bloodghasts and Amalgams. Next turn play cast some Gravecrawlers from your bulging graveyard and get back 4 Vengevines.
It's super janky, but could enable some nice t3 kills. It's also very weak to graveyard-hate, but that's more a problem of this archetype than anything else. Thoughts?
We definitely have something to brew with. Amalgams enabling crawlers and vice versa is huge, and being able to deck ourselves with the frog is super powerful. I expect something good to come out of this eventually.
Anything that costs three mana in Dredgevine decks needs to take over the game. Sin Prodder is a neat card, and definitely good where your opponent's choice becomes fairly inconsequential to our game plan, but it's simply too expensive.
What is your opinion on the new rare land cycle? Probably not for us, right?
I don't think so. If we want fast lands without paying life, we just play traditional fast lands. Meanwhile we otherwise don't want unfetchable lands since three colours on a low land count is tight, and we make good use of lands in the yard via Loam and Angler (and in my case, Topplegeist).
With fetches, Faithless Looting, and all the instant removal in our deck, I think Delirium should be relatively easy to activate.
Actually, there is no Looting and no removal in taptwo's list.
Yeah here's what happened - I started out 9-1 in testing. Then I went on an 0-5 tear. Whoops. Deck is super good when you resolve grisly salvage on time and bad when you don't. Looting is key. I may try a 4c build. Nevertheless, Topplegeist has been very very good. Even if you don't get delirium (very easy with a sculler and an oath of Nissa) it recurs VV and taps the blocker. Packs a lot of value that this deck specifically wants, for 1 mana.
If you're running the Bloodghast build, it's too expensive and there's not enough Zombie synergy. If you're running the Angler build, it's a lot better and I would consider running 1-2 at least in the side. 3 is expensive for our deck, but siding it in against grindy decks is going to get work done. Then again, it's a pretty useless card to dredge away. Looks better than it is, but it is still good.
But there's another card that I'm really excited for, that might bring me back to this archetype:
1-drop? Check.
Evasion? Check.
Interaction to help Vines get through? Check.
Can use graveyard synergy to lock your opponent out of the game? Check.
I re-assembled my BG core this week and went with White as the third colour, and am having OBSCENE success in pre-release testing with this little all-star. List below:
Oath of Nissa? We tend to be tight on mana, but Oath displacing a land has helped improve access to late-game non-dredge gas, and also helps turn on Delirium when dredged.
Tidehollow Sculler? So much awesome! Gives this aggro build a bit of interaction (extra in the side vs. combo), also helps turn on Delirium by virtue of being an artifact, and best of all, it's a Zombie!
Finally, there is some flex utility in the balance between Life from the Loam, Darkblast, Rotting Rats, and Mutavault. I like Loam in the main deck because my mana base is very 1-of heavy, especially with checklands, so it's nice to have great colour access on demand - as well as Mutavault if we need a Zombie. This build misses Faithless Looting badly, so Rotting Rats helps with that a little bit while also helping with Gravecrawlers. I run Darkblasts in the side right now because I'm finding targets rarer than usual.
Actually double-finally, I also want to talk about Purify the Grave in the board. I really prefer Memory's Journey, but because this version has poor access to discarding noncreature cards from the hand, I can't afford to get stuck with a blue spell. Besides, for WW I get 2/3 of the effect.
The only downside I've noticed so far is the lack of Ancient Grudge for certain decks, but since that's mostly an affinity thing, at least we have Lingering Souls to play strong defense.
Any thoughts/feedback? I'm still early on in testing, but o m g Topplegeist. I am in love.
If you're playing with reliable blue mana, the Skaab is a reasonable 1-of. My Jund list runs Prized Amalgam without blue mana, though. I always play a singleton Rotting Rats to ensure nothing too undesirable gets stuck in my hand.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I've run Dakmor Salvage in the past and not been happy with it. Dredging 2 is just too little, and entering tapped for only one colour is awful for a fast deck. Loam is far more flexible and a better dredger. For late-game Bloodghast guarantees, I'm actually somewhat interested in Drownyard Temple since it doesn't replace a dredge draw, and is technically ramp. On the other hand, the deck requires so little colourless mana that might fall short too.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I think this is still doable, but maybe you're right that Dread Return - Cabal Therapy - Bridge from Below are necessary pieces. I'm brewing up something in the Deck Creation forum. Oh Dredge. Wai you so broken?
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
We definitely have something to brew with. Amalgams enabling crawlers and vice versa is huge, and being able to deck ourselves with the frog is super powerful. I expect something good to come out of this eventually.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
I don't think so. If we want fast lands without paying life, we just play traditional fast lands. Meanwhile we otherwise don't want unfetchable lands since three colours on a low land count is tight, and we make good use of lands in the yard via Loam and Angler (and in my case, Topplegeist).
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
Yeah here's what happened - I started out 9-1 in testing. Then I went on an 0-5 tear. Whoops. Deck is super good when you resolve grisly salvage on time and bad when you don't. Looting is key. I may try a 4c build. Nevertheless, Topplegeist has been very very good. Even if you don't get delirium (very easy with a sculler and an oath of Nissa) it recurs VV and taps the blocker. Packs a lot of value that this deck specifically wants, for 1 mana.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine
If you're running the Bloodghast build, it's too expensive and there's not enough Zombie synergy. If you're running the Angler build, it's a lot better and I would consider running 1-2 at least in the side. 3 is expensive for our deck, but siding it in against grindy decks is going to get work done. Then again, it's a pretty useless card to dredge away. Looks better than it is, but it is still good.
But there's another card that I'm really excited for, that might bring me back to this archetype:
Topplegeist
1-drop? Check.
Evasion? Check.
Interaction to help Vines get through? Check.
Can use graveyard synergy to lock your opponent out of the game? Check.
I re-assembled my BG core this week and went with White as the third colour, and am having OBSCENE success in pre-release testing with this little all-star. List below:
4 Gravecrawler
4 Topplegeist
3 Bloodghast
4 Lotleth Troll
1 Rotting Rats
4 Satyr Wayfinder
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Stinkweed Imp
4 Vengevine
1 Golgari Grave-Troll
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Spells (10):
1 Deadly Allure
1 Oath of Nissa
4 Grisly Salvage
1 Life from the Loam
2 Lingering Souls
1 Unburial Rites
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Windswept Heath
1 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple Garden
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Isolated Chapel
1 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Darkblast
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Purify the Grave
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Spellskite
1 Tidehollow Sculler
2 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Unburial Rites
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
A couple of the cards deserve explaining:
The only downside I've noticed so far is the lack of Ancient Grudge for certain decks, but since that's mostly an affinity thing, at least we have Lingering Souls to play strong defense.
Any thoughts/feedback? I'm still early on in testing, but o m g Topplegeist. I am in love.
WBG Abzan Midrange
BRG Dredgevine