Hi Rakuto, just a few questions. Why aren't you playing a Sorin in the main? That card is insane. And how many times do you activate Mutavault as an attacker?
Also, I like Kitesail over Sculler, it's easier to cast with a similar effect and has additional evasion in the form of flying.
Played this deck at WNM and ate all the mid-range decks alive running Rakuto's list. Felt really good. I've been sour on Tidehollow for a while and have been meaning to try Freebooter. It was fantastic in my games. I missed not getting value though if I had a lot of Mana and a Displacer out.
I like that the list ran some Displacers since that card is a fantastic late game draw.
Ended up 3-1 losing to Mardu on some rusty play.
Cast down also felt really good with the current meta. Was able to remove things when a push would have been a dead draw. Specificly Hollow One or Depve Fish.
Do you have a latest update of the list you played?
I've played the deck for quite some time as well. It's nice to see some activity here again. BW Eldrazi will always be my pet deck, also foiled it for about 60%. I like the diversity, the angle, and that it's always under the radar. People also have no clue how to board against BW Eldrazi. It's been a while since I've played it though as I picked up Burn and I played that for like a year straight now. Yesterday Burn failed me on WNM, losing against UW and Spirits, so might even take BW to the PPTQ coming Sunday.
Sorin wins you games big time. His +1 is nuts. It's good when you've gone wide with Souls/Scions, but also a 6/5 lifelink trample Smasher does a lot of work. I've always played 1 or 2 main.
I dislike Eternal Scourge, it's a fun trick, but that's that. It has no value and is mostly ignored, and all other creatures either do something, or are bigger than he/she/it is.
I think Displacer is out of place in this deck. Its place is in BW Eldrazi Taxes where it has much more effect with blinking Blade Splicer for example.
My creature base has always been 4 Strangler, 4 TKS, 4 Smasher, and then 4 Reshaper or Tidehollow Sculler, just what I felt like. Reshaper replaces itself if not exiled, can ramp you when a land is revealed, is a blocker, can be cast turn 2, etc.
I don't think the deck has any issues in the current meta. In my opinion it eats other midrange decks alive. Aggro is pretty decent due to our creatures providing more value and are bigger than theirs. I can see a problem with KCI, but if your discard and relics come on point they can be stopped as well. It may even be a good choice for coming PPTQ. I would need to do some changes though as my list hasn't been updated since like Amonkhet. Cast Down would indeed be a nice addition and I see people playing Kitesails nowadays.
Funny how you can name Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle with Gideon's Intervention. Sure Valakut is not a spell, but the part that says preventing the damage that it will do should be enough to win that matchup. Their only other threat at that point is Titan which well, is a Path magnet.
@Jim_prov looked at that list...a bit odd. Main thing stuck out was the 4x cavern while still running 4x sculler. Considering eldrazi are logical creature type to name that doesn't help from mana standpoint as many are colorless, going to assume he really wanted to wreck control.
How right you are about 4 Caverns being odd as you'll only want to call Edlrazi; naming Eldrazi with 1 Caverns is usually enough. The possible second Caverns (or even the first you play depending on your hand and draws) could be naming Zombie to fix Sculler's colors for the remaining lands in hand. I can see potential, but I agree it seems off.
Otherwise I wouldn't change a card in the maindeck, and I still prefer BW Processors as the deck name if you are, and you should be, playing Blight Herder. The card is unreal, I can't remember the last time I drew it and wished it were a Smasher.
Blight Herder > Reality Smasher in my GPT Experience..=)
Could you guys shine some light on why Blight Herder is so much better than Reality Smasher? Often I feel like Reality Smasher closes the game where Blight Herder gives your opponent another turn to do something. Or do you mean because of its cast trigger in the more processor type deck? What's your aim with using the Blight Herder decklist, getting scions/souls to buff with Sorin and attack?
Nice to see you are including SE main like I did. It really does the trick whenever you get it in hands as mostly there will be atleast 1 thing in the GY that you really want to get rid off, be it a spell, nonbasic land or an annoying creature; anything goes and mostly rips your opponent for 3 cards.
3x Fatal Push I'll have to try. It's 100% better for mana dorks which you really don't want to be Pathing.
After the B&R people in my region expect more Tron/(Grixis) Control, do you guys expect that as well? If it turns out to be correct that more control is going to be played adding more Caverns will be necessary.
I achieved my first top 8 ever! And the timing couldn't be better, at the Invitational event where I have been qualifying for last year.
Unfortunately, my first game in the top 8 I lost straight away with 2-0. It was against Grixis Delver where he had answers to everything. Letting me play my Lingering Souls and countering all my big dudes.
Won 2-1 against Living End
Game 1 he got me end of my turn 2 by exiling SSG and casting his cascade spell, cycling Street Wraith on the stack, drawing a Street Wraith, cycling a Street Wraith, drawing a Street Wraith and cycling a Street Wraith, then attacking for 12 his turn 3. Game 2 and 3 I won by Relic/Thoughtseize/TKS
Won 2-0 against UWR, basically 4 Reality Smashers he couldn't keep up with.
Lost 2-0 against Bring to Scapeshift, after losing game 1, and him playing Platinum Emperion and saying "now I wonder if you boarded out your Path's", which I indeed did
Won 2-1 against Burn. He won first game like he's supposed to, high pressure and loads of burn. Game 2 he had to mull to 4 and got me to 7 eventually, but he Skull Cracked end of my turn because he was stuck on 2 mana and felt like he had to do something, and in response I healed 4 with Blessed Alliance. Game 3 I healed off of Timely Reinforcements both times, 1 time from Blessed Alliance and once from a Sorin-ed Reality Smasher for 22 lifegain in total, that was too much apparently
I don't think 23 lands with no mind stones is where you want to be, this deck has a very high mana curve and you're basically short two lands (I would count two mind stones as 1 land). If you get stuck on two lands and miss even 1 land drop you're in trouble.
I also think CoBr replaced the need for inquisition, inquisition is such a dead draw late game and 8 discard is a lot, I feel like you'll find yourself top decking it mid to late game too often.
Fair enough, you're probably right regarding the lands. Mind Stone... I don't know. What does your typical turn 1-4 look like when playing Mind Stone, could you give me some examples? If your t1 isn't discard, aren't you dead by turn 3-4 by doing nothing turn 1-2 ?
CoBr over IoK, I get your point and haven't thought of it that way. I will definitely give that a go.
I agree that 23 lands and no Mind Stones may be too greedy. Mind Stone really makes 2-land keeps workable, when they would otherwise be very risky in many cases. I think you should at least stay at 24 lands if you aren't running Stone. Stone is a big help against Blood Moon, too.
I also agree that you might have too much hand disruption. Jund is all about hand disruption, and their best creature gets bigger as graveyards fill up, but they still run only 5-6 1 CMC disruption spells, backed by 3-4 Lili's. We have TKS, instead of Lili, which--unlike IoK/Thoughtseize--is still a good topdeck late game.
In the side, I tried Ghostly Prison for a little bit, but it didn't do what I wanted it to against the go-wide decks, so I haven't run it for a while. And I'm not sure what deck Leyline of Sanctity would be needed against, other than RG Valakut decks. The Burn match is already very good with Alliance and Brutality, I find. Have you considered Runed Halo? That can be hard to cast on-curve, though.
I feel like I need to rely a lot on hand disruption since we're a late starter. When playing Mind Stone turn 2 for example, you won't have any board presence up until turn 3. A t1 discard for me is a must in that case. Am I wrong here and do you have other experience with this? Blood Moon might see presence this weekend, so I'm leaning towards playing Mind Stone. Seeing you both play it in your decks and have no problems with it, I'll give it another go.
There aren't that many wide decks like Elves so for me I think Prison will do the job. You're probably right about Leyline although that prevents Junk/Jund from discarding our cards as well, except for Lili of course.
With 23 lands and 4 5-drops, you are going to have too many situations where you cannot play your cards. 23 mana gives you a 50% chance to have 5 lands if you have drawn 12 cards (including your opening hand), which means that even on the draw, NOT taking a mulligan, you will not be able to cast your Reality Smasher on turn 5 (percentage is a bit higher in reality due to Eldrazi Temple). With 24 lands and 2 Mind Stones this changes to 67%, so in 2 out of 3 games. This difference is what makes it probable that you can play your Smashers in the majority of your games, and not only in half. The same odds calculated for a turn 4 Though-Knot Seer: 68% to 80% with 11 cards drawn. For me, TKS is a must-have play in this deck, and these plays I usually try to get as close to 80% probability as I can (4 out of 5 games sees me able to make them, if I draw the card).
If you know your meta has many non-creature spells that really hurt you, then playing 6 discard spells is probably a good approach! You get your chances of drawing one latest turn 3 from 53% to 68%, given 10 cards (a little less with 9), which is the same argument as above, if this is a play you want to see in the majority of your games.
Excel is your friend
Jan
Agreed, although discard doesn't necessarily mean 'pick the non-creature spell'.
Coming Saturday is a championship after last year's qualifications. 24 players will be competing for the title. Expected meta is BW Eldrazi Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Grixis Control, Kiln Fiend, Merfolk and Midrange. The players competing have also been seen with Madcap, 5C Bring to Light, Tron, Skred, Affinity, Titan Breach and Ad Nauseam. Yes it can go all directions
I'm thinking about playing this list, could I get your guys' thoughts? Last times I tried Mind Stone I didn't like it so much. I'm taking a more discard approach rather than the ramp.
I think he wants to Blink his Herder to get value out of it. In that case I would play more Displacers and Herders to make that a solid plan. And I would add Vault since Herder + Souls make tons of tokens and with Vault you'll make your opponent think twice about attacking and you can gain a ton of life.
I tried Mind Stone a few times now but I'm not a fan of it. Too often it's a "I do nothing turn 2, go ahead and kill me" and it's not giving me the ramp I expect from it. Also playing 2 doesn't really do much if you rely on Mind Stone to ramp you.
I'm currently playing 4 IoK, 2 TS and 2 CoBr as the discard package. I also added mainboard Surgical, see how that goes. My Living End opponent the other day wasn't too happy about it. I'm also trying Aether Vial with Strangler, Reshaper, Displacer, TKS and Smasher as my creature package and I cut the Relics and Souls from my deck. I don't know yet... not convinced
How much work is Shambling Vent doing for you guys? Do you use the ability often? Does it impact the game? Is the getting into play tapped causing problems often or is the manland so good that it doesn't matter that much?
I haven't had near enough experience to make a decision on Fulminator, I only play once every two weeks typically so I've only had two FNMs since I picked them up. The first time, I had it in the opener against bant eldrazi, but it ended up being a super weird game where shutting down an early temple was irrelevant, we both went an absurdly long time without drawing gas. The next time, the players I brought the fulms in for weren't attending. I brought them in because the best players at my LGS play bant eldrazi, tron, and through the breach/Valakut. I feel it's a pretty good card against both tron and through the breach. I just haven't had the number of FNMs to show how well it performs. I'm also wary of only having one in the side, because it's a card you want to have ready to play t3 against tron and bant eldrazi, and asap when a Valakut hits the field, so running two seems a better idea than hoping to have a single copy in your opening hand.
How do you feel about Batterskull in the current state of modern? I was running it a while back but took it out with herders to add reshapers, but I've been thinking about adding it back in. If only we could more consistently ramp it out on T4 than just mind stones. Feels like T5 is a turn too slow against burn/aggro.
I'm not too sure about Fulminator, then again I haven't tested it as well. Sure it's land destruction for 3 mana but that's all it does and you will probably cut Reshaper or Strangler for it since it's in that slot and I'm not sure that is what you'd want. GQ does that same but will still give your opponent a land back IF they still have basics in their deck.
IF you would add Batterskull, what would you cut for it?
Marsh Flats is really a card you would want to have as you can fetch both of your required colors with 1 fetch. Flooded Strand only gives you your white and Polluted only your black so that may put you in awkward situations, e.g. you start with Plains and 2 Flooded, and you have IoK/TS in hand. Is selling/trading Flooded/Polluted an option to get you your Marsh Flats? I doubt you can play it decent without them. Also have a look at Concealed Courtyard.
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Also, I like Kitesail over Sculler, it's easier to cast with a similar effect and has additional evasion in the form of flying.
Cheers,
DC
I've played the deck for quite some time as well. It's nice to see some activity here again. BW Eldrazi will always be my pet deck, also foiled it for about 60%. I like the diversity, the angle, and that it's always under the radar. People also have no clue how to board against BW Eldrazi. It's been a while since I've played it though as I picked up Burn and I played that for like a year straight now. Yesterday Burn failed me on WNM, losing against UW and Spirits, so might even take BW to the PPTQ coming Sunday.
Sorin wins you games big time. His +1 is nuts. It's good when you've gone wide with Souls/Scions, but also a 6/5 lifelink trample Smasher does a lot of work. I've always played 1 or 2 main.
I dislike Eternal Scourge, it's a fun trick, but that's that. It has no value and is mostly ignored, and all other creatures either do something, or are bigger than he/she/it is.
I think Displacer is out of place in this deck. Its place is in BW Eldrazi Taxes where it has much more effect with blinking Blade Splicer for example.
My creature base has always been 4 Strangler, 4 TKS, 4 Smasher, and then 4 Reshaper or Tidehollow Sculler, just what I felt like. Reshaper replaces itself if not exiled, can ramp you when a land is revealed, is a blocker, can be cast turn 2, etc.
I don't think the deck has any issues in the current meta. In my opinion it eats other midrange decks alive. Aggro is pretty decent due to our creatures providing more value and are bigger than theirs. I can see a problem with KCI, but if your discard and relics come on point they can be stopped as well. It may even be a good choice for coming PPTQ. I would need to do some changes though as my list hasn't been updated since like Amonkhet. Cast Down would indeed be a nice addition and I see people playing Kitesails nowadays.
Cheers,
DC
When playing the Blight Herder variant of the deck, shouldn't a 1-off Vault of the Archangel be included?
Oh BTW, RideTheIguana, do you have a SB guide to your list?
How right you are about 4 Caverns being odd as you'll only want to call Edlrazi; naming Eldrazi with 1 Caverns is usually enough. The possible second Caverns (or even the first you play depending on your hand and draws) could be naming Zombie to fix Sculler's colors for the remaining lands in hand. I can see potential, but I agree it seems off.
Thanks and nice results!
3x Fatal Push I'll have to try. It's 100% better for mana dorks which you really don't want to be Pathing.
After the B&R people in my region expect more Tron/(Grixis) Control, do you guys expect that as well? If it turns out to be correct that more control is going to be played adding more Caverns will be necessary.
Please go with 2 CoBr, it's such a powerhouse.
Unfortunately, my first game in the top 8 I lost straight away with 2-0. It was against Grixis Delver where he had answers to everything. Letting me play my Lingering Souls and countering all my big dudes.
Won 2-1 against Living End
Game 1 he got me end of my turn 2 by exiling SSG and casting his cascade spell, cycling Street Wraith on the stack, drawing a Street Wraith, cycling a Street Wraith, drawing a Street Wraith and cycling a Street Wraith, then attacking for 12 his turn 3. Game 2 and 3 I won by Relic/Thoughtseize/TKS
Won 2-0 against UWR, basically 4 Reality Smashers he couldn't keep up with.
Lost 2-0 against Bring to Scapeshift, after losing game 1, and him playing Platinum Emperion and saying "now I wonder if you boarded out your Path's", which I indeed did
Won 2-1 against Burn. He won first game like he's supposed to, high pressure and loads of burn. Game 2 he had to mull to 4 and got me to 7 eventually, but he Skull Cracked end of my turn because he was stuck on 2 mana and felt like he had to do something, and in response I healed 4 with Blessed Alliance. Game 3 I healed off of Timely Reinforcements both times, 1 time from Blessed Alliance and once from a Sorin-ed Reality Smasher for 22 lifegain in total, that was too much apparently
ID-ed for top 8! Then lost against Grixis as said
Eventually I played this list:
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
3 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Marsh Flats
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Sea Gate Wreckage
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
Sorcery - 9
3 Toughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
Artifact - 6
2 Mind Stone
4 Relic of Progenitus
Planeswalker - 1
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Creatures - 15
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seet
4 Reality Smasher
3 Blessed Alliance
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Pithing Needle
2 Disenchant
2 Celestial Purge
2 Warping Wail
1 Eidolon of Rhetoric
1 Wrath of God
Fair enough, you're probably right regarding the lands. Mind Stone... I don't know. What does your typical turn 1-4 look like when playing Mind Stone, could you give me some examples? If your t1 isn't discard, aren't you dead by turn 3-4 by doing nothing turn 1-2 ?
CoBr over IoK, I get your point and haven't thought of it that way. I will definitely give that a go.
I feel like I need to rely a lot on hand disruption since we're a late starter. When playing Mind Stone turn 2 for example, you won't have any board presence up until turn 3. A t1 discard for me is a must in that case. Am I wrong here and do you have other experience with this? Blood Moon might see presence this weekend, so I'm leaning towards playing Mind Stone. Seeing you both play it in your decks and have no problems with it, I'll give it another go.
There aren't that many wide decks like Elves so for me I think Prison will do the job. You're probably right about Leyline although that prevents Junk/Jund from discarding our cards as well, except for Lili of course.
Agreed, although discard doesn't necessarily mean 'pick the non-creature spell'.
So with 3 Thoughtseizes and 2 Collective Brutality (and 4 Thought-Knot Seer) I'd be on 9 discard. Should be OK. Then I'll cut 3 Inquisition of Kozilek for 2 Mind Stone and 1 more land.
Thanks a lot for your inputs.
Coming Saturday is a championship after last year's qualifications. 24 players will be competing for the title. Expected meta is BW Eldrazi Taxes, Bant Eldrazi, Burn, Infect, Grixis Control, Kiln Fiend, Merfolk and Midrange. The players competing have also been seen with Madcap, 5C Bring to Light, Tron, Skred, Affinity, Titan Breach and Ad Nauseam. Yes it can go all directions
I'm thinking about playing this list, could I get your guys' thoughts? Last times I tried Mind Stone I didn't like it so much. I'm taking a more discard approach rather than the ramp.
1 Concealed Courtyard
1 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Caves of Koilos
2 Shambling Vent
3 Godless Shrine
4 Eldrazi Temple
3 Marsh Flats
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Path to Exile
1 Go for the Throat
Sorcery - 12
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Toughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
4 Lingering Souls
Artifact - 4
4 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Creatures - 15
4 Wasteland Strangler
3 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seet
4 Reality Smasher
As for the SB it will probably contain Blessed Alliance, Wrath of God, Ghostly Prison, Celestial Purge, Disenchant, Timely Reinforcements, Pithing Needle and Leyline of Sanctity. Exact SB still to be determined..
Main board options that I'm still thinking about:
-1 Relic of Progenitus, +1 Matter Reshaper
-1 Inquisition of Kozilek, -1 Relic of Progenitus, +2 Blessed Alliance (meta looks aggro heavy)
-1 Relic of Progenitus, -1 Thoughtseize, -1 Go for the Throat, +3 Tidehollow Sculler (more hand ripping into processing, plus it eats bolts)
Thanks in advance!
I tried Mind Stone a few times now but I'm not a fan of it. Too often it's a "I do nothing turn 2, go ahead and kill me" and it's not giving me the ramp I expect from it. Also playing 2 doesn't really do much if you rely on Mind Stone to ramp you.
I'm currently playing 4 IoK, 2 TS and 2 CoBr as the discard package. I also added mainboard Surgical, see how that goes. My Living End opponent the other day wasn't too happy about it. I'm also trying Aether Vial with Strangler, Reshaper, Displacer, TKS and Smasher as my creature package and I cut the Relics and Souls from my deck. I don't know yet... not convinced
IF you would add Batterskull, what would you cut for it?