I think so. What part of that is red? With Celestial Colonnade, Air Elemental exists as precedent, so it's justified by getting flying from blue and vigilance from white. "Exile the top card of your library, until end of turn, you may play that card" is modern red's version of card draw. It would be more likely on your Izzet land if that's the design.
Desolate Lighthouse doesn't really fix your mana so I always feel it's more of a "spell" than a land. It's good, but it's no manafixing.
I'm not using the Lighthouse as an example of manafixing. I'm using it as an example of power level. If anything, the manland's effect is likely to be weaker because it also provides manafixing*.
*Caveats being that manlands are more vulnerable with their double type, they represent tempo loss, and this one would require a damage trigger to get the effect, which would theoretically balance out its strength
I really would like that flying looter, against all hope. 1UR is a stretch but 2UR is doable. Desolate Lighthouse already exists, and I'm not sure how much better they can make the manland
Serious question, does anyone have more than one example of things this trades unfavorably with in cube?
Off the top of my head, it might be something like 20 to 1 in numbers of favorable interactions to unfavorable. I already mentioned Fireslinger and Omenspeaker. Those are pretty much worst-case scenario for me. Umezawa's Jitte is a wash since it works just as well with you as against you.
Your mileage may vary, but for my investment I would be happy to trade my land with pretty much all of the above except Brimaz and the Kird creatures, and maybe Blade Splicer's token or Kor Skyfisher (and True-Name Nemesis lol).
Finally, consider whether 1 toughness actually makes a difference over 2 toughness in the above cases. Aside from the WCS, I don't think it makes a difference. In terms of removal, Twin Bolt, Electrolyze and Fire // Ice get slightly better. Damage-based sweepers like Earthquake get a bit better as well, if situational. You might get hit with a Tragic Slip, but again, anything that would take out X/1s will likely take out your X/2 as well, no?
I know getting hit with the corner case sucks, but let's keep things in perspective. Twenty cards (if you even run all of them) in a 360 cube is less than 6% of the entire thing. Have you considered the amount of creatures it does kill safely, as well as the equipment, anthems, burn, and pump available?
Let's not write off cards that haven't even been seen yet! Perhaps the Worldwake cards are being viewed through rose-tinted glasses. The only Worldwake manland that was more than an evergreen mechanic was Raging Ravine. Celestial Colonnade is literally Serra Angel. Stirring Wildwood is literally Heartwood Treefolk. Firebreathing on overcosted critters has been red since the game's inception. Creeping Tar Pit's ability has been around since Odyssey at least. If the argument is that cherrypicking evergreen mechanics is bad, does anyone really think the Worldwake manlands are a strong example to hold up as proof? They're arguably a lot safer in design than Lumbering Falls and Shambling Vent, both abilities which are very rarely seen on competitively costed cards.
I guess my point of contention lies with the phrase that the WWK lands "don't function too much differently" than the OGW lands, yet they are somehow more "unique". I'm not seeing it, but I'm open to being convinced
I don't know how much more... I just know I wasn't wow'd. I wanted to be wow'd. Whatever creature it becomes, it's going into everyone's cube, I get it.
Umm... What I meant was UR won't care as much as WR will. A cip tapped land is a huge drawback for aggressive decks which is a majority of my Boros decks. Sure we have ones that are midrange/control but it's not the majority. Since this is the case I wanted something with a higher power level.
Looking at the raw stats, I understand it's hard to be wowed. It's been years since the Worldwake manlands, things have changed a lot since then. Cubes are a lot stronger, in general there's much less room for inclusion, and Wizards is probably playing it safe. But four power for four mana is the going rate for a dual manafixing manaland. Are you saying you want something better than Raging Ravine? Even with the general toning down of BFZ's power, what we have here is a land that comes pretty close to the greatness of Ravine, Colonnade and Creeping Tar pit.
As for wow factor, I'm going to be wowed when this dude picks up a Bonesplitter, an Elspeth +1, or crashes in with any one of the battle cry, exalted or anthem effects that abound in these colors. In the meantime, this manland is one of the most important tools for Boros decks, and it's been a long time coming. You're right though, coming into play tapped is absolutely a tempo loss that Boros aggro doesn't want to deal with. I think the dual benefits of increasing manafixing and threat density outweigh that risk. You can mitigate it by sequencing your land drops and running a lower curve to minimize the tempo loss of one less land.
Now the next target is the fastland, which I hope we can both agree is quite crucial
How much more do you want??? It was always going to come into play tapped, so that's not much of an argument against it. Four power for four mana with a chance to go bigger is just under Raging Ravine in damage output. Toughness is the only downside here, and while it sucks to go up against tokens, burn or Fireslinger/Omenspeaker, you still get to trade with your opponent's X/4s, tear down Walls and dominate combat against bears and dorks, like Raging Ravine, and for free (i.e. not costing you a nonland card). It's more than fair - it's essential to keep Boros on an even playing field
This is the Boros land I was waiting for. Gets silly with just one anthem out. A bit mana-intensive so it can't wear equipment well, but 4 virtual power with upside is plenty good.
I'm not using the Lighthouse as an example of manafixing. I'm using it as an example of power level. If anything, the manland's effect is likely to be weaker because it also provides manafixing*.
*Caveats being that manlands are more vulnerable with their double type, they represent tempo loss, and this one would require a damage trigger to get the effect, which would theoretically balance out its strength
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Off the top of my head, it might be something like 20 to 1 in numbers of favorable interactions to unfavorable. I already mentioned Fireslinger and Omenspeaker. Those are pretty much worst-case scenario for me. Umezawa's Jitte is a wash since it works just as well with you as against you.
Other popular X/3s and X/4s at three mana or less include Shambling Vent, Stirring Wildwood, Shadowmage Infiltrator, Grenzo, Dungeon Warden, Treetop Village, Kird Ape, Loam Lion, Kor Skyfisher, Brimaz, King of Oreskos, Blade Splicer, Spectral Procession, Sea Gate Oracle, True-Name Nemesis, Trygon Predator, Feldon of the Third Path, Courser of Kruphix, Liliana, Heretical Healer and Drana, Liberator of Malakir. There aren't enough Centaur Coursers in cube to tangle with this (Magus of the Wheel mostly).
Your mileage may vary, but for my investment I would be happy to trade my land with pretty much all of the above except Brimaz and the Kird creatures, and maybe Blade Splicer's token or Kor Skyfisher (and True-Name Nemesis lol).
Finally, consider whether 1 toughness actually makes a difference over 2 toughness in the above cases. Aside from the WCS, I don't think it makes a difference. In terms of removal, Twin Bolt, Electrolyze and Fire // Ice get slightly better. Damage-based sweepers like Earthquake get a bit better as well, if situational. You might get hit with a Tragic Slip, but again, anything that would take out X/1s will likely take out your X/2 as well, no?
I know getting hit with the corner case sucks, but let's keep things in perspective. Twenty cards (if you even run all of them) in a 360 cube is less than 6% of the entire thing. Have you considered the amount of creatures it does kill safely, as well as the equipment, anthems, burn, and pump available?
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
I guess my point of contention lies with the phrase that the WWK lands "don't function too much differently" than the OGW lands, yet they are somehow more "unique". I'm not seeing it, but I'm open to being convinced
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
Looking at the raw stats, I understand it's hard to be wowed. It's been years since the Worldwake manlands, things have changed a lot since then. Cubes are a lot stronger, in general there's much less room for inclusion, and Wizards is probably playing it safe. But four power for four mana is the going rate for a dual manafixing manaland. Are you saying you want something better than Raging Ravine? Even with the general toning down of BFZ's power, what we have here is a land that comes pretty close to the greatness of Ravine, Colonnade and Creeping Tar pit.
As for wow factor, I'm going to be wowed when this dude picks up a Bonesplitter, an Elspeth +1, or crashes in with any one of the battle cry, exalted or anthem effects that abound in these colors. In the meantime, this manland is one of the most important tools for Boros decks, and it's been a long time coming. You're right though, coming into play tapped is absolutely a tempo loss that Boros aggro doesn't want to deal with. I think the dual benefits of increasing manafixing and threat density outweigh that risk. You can mitigate it by sequencing your land drops and running a lower curve to minimize the tempo loss of one less land.
Now the next target is the fastland, which I hope we can both agree is quite crucial
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
How much more do you want??? It was always going to come into play tapped, so that's not much of an argument against it. Four power for four mana with a chance to go bigger is just under Raging Ravine in damage output. Toughness is the only downside here, and while it sucks to go up against tokens, burn or Fireslinger/Omenspeaker, you still get to trade with your opponent's X/4s, tear down Walls and dominate combat against bears and dorks, like Raging Ravine, and for free (i.e. not costing you a nonland card). It's more than fair - it's essential to keep Boros on an even playing field
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge
My Cube (DeckStats)
My Pauper Cube: 540 (CubeTutor link!)
Level 1 Judge