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Quote from truth_bomb »

truth_bomb's deckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
(12) 1cc 4 fatal push 4 inquisition of kozilek 4 path to exile (12) 2cc 4 bitterblossom 4 collective brutality (replaced smallpox) 4 intangible virtue (8) 3cc 4 liliana of the veil 4 lingering souls	(4) 4cc 4 sorin, lord of innistrad (24) lands (kept the smallpox mana base) 4 fetid heath 4 flagstones of trokair 4 godless shrine 4 marsh flats 4 swamp 2 vault of the archangel 1 plains 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth	SB 4 auriok champion 3 damping sphere 3 leyline of the void 3 stony silence 1 damnation 1 wrath of god

Four Collective Brutalities seems about two too many main-deck; it's rather clunky and none of it's modes are really worth 1B. There are a few match-ups where it's worth playing, especially if one has anything that isn't just wasted when pitched - BW tokens has very little in this category, but in general, it's just not a four-of kind of card.

Even with Liliana of the Veil, four Fetid Heaths is at least one too many. Four Swamps is too many as well. The Flagstones probably don't hurt much; add a Ghost Quarter or two and they even serve a purpose. Urborg? Two Vaults? A few more W fetches would be nice, Concealed Courtyard is an auto-include.

Sorin LoI is not the Sorin for tokens, I tried and he just doesn't cut it. Solemn guy is just better and four is too many even of him.

There is some pontification in this post but it's early and I'm not going to edit it to sound more reasonable.

My BW tokens don't get often anymore mostly because they just can't beat any type of combo or big-mana reliably. Fast aggro is also a problem. So, I've been mostly playing Affinity. Winning on turn three will work against many archtypes.

Quote from truth_bomb »

summary: i replaced smallpox w/collective brutality, since brutalities are easier to control. i also made my 'board more consistent. my loss to UBzombies was a fluke imo but i absolutely had no game vs GBelves. that elf player shows up every week so i'm retiring this deck. can't risk losing to the same guy every week!

Some tech for elves includes:

• Darkblast
  
• Legion's End
  
• Witch's Vengeance
  
• Plague Engineer
  
• Engineered Explosives
  
• Mirran Crusader
  
• Settle the Wreckage
  

Jund used to be a good match-up but Wrenn and Six may have changed that. Tron is bad but Stony Silence and Damping Sphere go a long way. It's tough to rely on Ghost Quarter and Surgical Extraction like some decks can as it's hard on the mana to run many G.Q.'s unless one eschews Spectral Procession.

Quote from truth_bomb »

round 1 vs Ad Nauseam, 1-2.
SB: +2 Damping Sphere , +2 Stony Silence. -4 Fatal Push.
game 1, i had an aggro draw:
-turn 1 Inquisition.
-turn 2 Bitterblossom.
-turn 3 Lingering Souls.
-turn 4 2x Intangible Virtue.
it got there.
games 2&3, i kept hands w/multiple Liliana's, hoping to discard his combo pieces. both games, he held onto Ad Nauseam as his last card and went off on 5 mana.
new SB plan vs Ad Nauseam is:
+2 Collective Brutality, +2 Stony Silence. -4 Fatal Push.
wish i could cleanly swap out Path to Exile too but it's virtually painless to Path a token for mana screw.

It's tough to beat Ad Nauseam fast enough without interacting with their enchantments. Affinity or Infect can sometimes do it; I've managed to win game one with Affinity in my last two match-ups with it. The first time, the kid played Angel's Grace, and then said "oh". Fortunately Affinity can play any color so I have gotten mileage out of Stubborn Denial, Thoughtseize and Ray of Revelation - two Phyrexian Unlife? No problem! I love flashback!

I've also beaten it with GW Hatebears; Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is a hard card for them to beat.

BW Tokens best chance is probably either Thoughtseize and Surgical Extraction or maybe something like Lost Legacy. Discard alone won't get there unless you can clock them fast; they will draw their pieces and they will go-off. They can also tune their side-board for the LGS; the jerk had Hurkyll's Recall in his side-board last Friday. I suppose it's fair; Ad Naseam is the main reason I have Ray of Revelation in my side-board.

With so many Stoneforge Mystics running amok, I'm tempted to main-deck Ashiok, Dream Render.

While I haven't actually seen any in play yet, the thought of Giver of Runes makes me want to bring back my pet card Darkblast.

Two Silent Clearings are a fine idea. Two Godless Shrines are also fine. I wouldn't play four Shrines. I've been playing with three Clearings but I'm going down to two if I break this deck out again. Drawing two Clearings as the only lands is pretty close to an auto-mulligan.

Quote from truth_bomb »

9/13/19 Modern.
12 players, 1-1-1 matches, 5th place.

truth_bombMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
(14) 1 drops: 4 fatal push 4 inquisition of kozilek 4 path to exile 2 thoughtseize (8) 2 drops: 4 bitterblossom 4 smallpox (10) 3 drops: 4 liliana of the veil 4 lingering souls 2 sword of fire and ice	(4) 4 drops: 4 sorin, lord of innistrad (24) land: 4 fetid heath 4 flagstones of trokair 4 godless shrine 4 marsh flats 4 swamp 2 vault of the archangel 1 plains 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth	SB 4 kor firewalker 2 damping sphere 2 spellskite 2 stony silence 2 surgical extraction (idea was to fizzle other extractions that target my win cons, esp lingering souls.) 1 damnation 1 disenchant (catch all) 1 wrath of god

test 1 vs GbElves, 2-1.
no SB
games i won, i kept his creature count low. game i lost, he got too much board presence.

test 2 vs Fish, 2-0.
no SB
he doesn't own aether vial. games wern't competitive.

test 3 vs GRzoo, 2-1.
no SB
similar to the fish match up. all about controlling board presence.

round 1 vs WUB humans, 2-1.
SB +1 damnation, +1 wrath of god. -2 thoughtseize.
only game i lost was when he turn 1 ather vial'd.

round 2 vs Dredge, 0-2.
SB +2 surgical extraction, +1 disenchant. -3 smallpox.
surgical extraction wasn't enough. wish i had RIP.

round 3 vs RB discard, 1-1-1.
SB +4 kor firewalker, +2 spellskite. -4 smallpox, -2 thoughtseize.
games were pretty even. i was winning game 3 until time expired.

when asked why i didn't run stoneforge mystic, i explained, "all my other creatures were tokens. i didn't want to give spot removal ANY value." decks that run stoneforge mystic either have counterspells (Stoneblade) or tons of other juicy targets (D&T.)

here's what i would play now:

revisedMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
(12) 1 drops: 4 fatal push 4 inquisition of kozilek 4 path to exile (10) 2 drops: 4 bitterblossom 4 smallpox 2 collective brutality (credit to Kyle) (10) 3 drops: 4 liliana of the veil 4 lingering souls 2 sword of fire and ice	(4) 4 drops: 4 sorin, lord of innistrad (24) land: 4 fetid heath 4 flagstones of trokair 4 godless shrine 4 marsh flats 4 swamp 2 vault of the archangel 1 plains 1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth	SB 4 kor firewalker 3 leyline of the void (credit to Alex) 2 damping sphere 2 spellskite 2 stony silence 1 damnnation 1 wrath of god

If Kor Firewalker is for Burn (and what else could it be for?), I'd prefer Auriok Champion. Does different things, but pro-B can be relevant.

Two Vaults is probably one too many. Two Swamps is probably enough. Two Shrines is probably enough. Smallpox may change the calculation, but three of either is surely plenty. Four Fetid Heaths is absolutely at least one too many and likely two too many. I'd run some more W fetches. How many depends on how many fetchables are on hand, but a few more fetches than fetchables is okay.

I don't think the Swords-instead-of-Anthems plan appeals. Swords were played Eons ago in BW tokens and have been long out of favor. Intangible Virtue has proven itself a core card for very obvious but very valid reasons. If you were on the Stoneforge Mystic plan, Swords make sense, Batterskull probably makes more sense as a one-of, but without SFM, swords are very slow, and they make your opponents removal better. Yes, they do. Really.

One doesn't use SFM until one has the goods; four-mana and a carrier ready to go. I don't play SFM because they're nearly $60; I sold the two I had for Commander. Sadly, I sold one before the spike. I probably wouldn't have sold the second without the spike.

The Smallpox plan is innovative; I might give it a try. The Flagstones seems like Magic Christmas, but one has to play them with Smallpox. In for a penny, in for a pound.

Four four-drop Planeswalkers in a Smallpox deck may be a little greedy, I would cut one to make room for Virtue. I think I'd drop the fourth Path to Exile or the fourth Fatal Push for the fourth virtue.

All opinions stated herein are well worth the price.

How many Silent Clearings have you been testing? I've been on three and it has felt like one too many. One shall be dropped.

Quote from pzbw7z »

[quote from="Kalitraz »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/656590-bw-tokens?comment=4546"]
Round 3 Ad Nauseum: 0-2
Game 2, sided in Runed Halo (named lightning storm), Leyline of sanctity, and some other stuff for creature removal, but promptly lost to ad nauseum -> Laboratory Maniac -> serum visions.

Did he use Angel's Grace or Phyrexian Unlife plus Solemnity before going off? There's not much one can do about Angel's Grace, but Ad Nauseam is a match-up where Anguished Unmaking might be BW tokens best card. Some lists are running one of the newer Jace's in place of the Maniac so Mortify won't necessarily help.

It's a sad day when one's is thinking of playing Mortify, but Ad Nauseam is such a nuisance. One almost has to win on turn-three - on the play - to get it done.

Edit: Maybe Generous Gift might do better that Unmaking. I haven't got a copy yet, so I haven't tried it.

Quote from Kalitraz »

Round 3 Ad Nauseum: 0-2
Game 2, sided in Runed Halo (named lightning storm), Leyline of sanctity, and some other stuff for creature removal, but promptly lost to ad nauseum -> Laboratory Maniac -> serum visions.

Did he use Angel's Grace or Phyrexian Unlife plus Solemnity before going off? There's not much one can do about Angel's Grace, but Ad Nauseam is a match-up where Anguished Unmaking might be BW tokens best card. Some lists are running one of the newer Jace's in place of the Maniac so Mortify won't necessarily help.

It's a sad day when one's is thinking of playing Mortify, but Ad Nauseam is such a nuisance. One almost has to win on turn-three - on the play - to get it done.

Quote from Break84 »

Hi guys, I hope it is ok that I ask

I actually play this BW- Token Deck on Budget, it was originally the Modern Event Deck, with some Minor tweakings:

Break84's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards

//Lands 4 Caves of Koilos 2 City of Brass 2 Concealed Courtyard 4 Isolated Chapel 4 Plains 4 Swamp 1 Vault of the Archangel 2 Windbrisk Heights //Spells 2 Dismember 4 Duress 1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant 2 Honor of the Pure 2 Inquisition of Kozilek 4 Intangible Virtue 2 Legion's Landing 4 Lingering Souls 4 Path to Exile 4 Raise the Alarm 1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad 1 Sorin, Solemn Visitor 4 Spectral Procession 2 Zealous Persecution

//Sideboard 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender 2 Ghost Quarter 3 Kataki, War's Wage 3 Relic of Progenitus 2 Soul Warden 3 Tidehollow Sculler

What would ya say, actually I ahave a budget from further 50$ to tweak it a bit, what would u suggest besides two further copies from IoK ?

For starters, I think I'd get two more Concealed Courtyards to replace those Cities of Brass. That'll set you back about $4; I'd use the rest to buy some Windswept Heaths. They're about $11-$12 apiece so you might get all four and stay under or at your budget. An alternative is to get a couple of Godless Shrines and as many Windswept Heaths as you have money left for. Two Shrines is about all you will want ultimately so I wouldn't buy more that two.

The Windbrisk Heights are not really worth playing in my view and you really want to cut down on the Swamps, the Isolated Chapels and the Caves of Koilos. The latter two are strictly budget cards and both are bad in multiples. Swamps also make it tough to cast your Spectral Processions in a timely manner. Generally one Swamp is what you want but you need fetches to get there.

Unfortunately, even Flooded Strands are significantly higher in price that Windswept Heaths. Marsh Flats are significantly more expensive than Strands, but I'm not sure I'd spend money on Strands.

Two more Courtyards, two Shrines, and four Windswept Heaths would be a very good start but all together they are a little more than your budget. These will really improve your mana-base.

So the Silent Clearings got their first run at FNM. You can probably guess what happened; game-one I drew two of them and no other land. I had an Auriok Champion and token makers so I kept it and it worked out all right. I will probably not get the fourth Clearing.

Overall, I went 1-1-1 - really. The match I won was 1-0. Games were in general grindy. The last match was UW Control and nothing I have outside of Burn seems to really have a chance there.

Quote from login »

I dropped isolated chapel

Well I hope so, what took you so long? I dropped that stinker when Concealed Courtyard came out and I never ran more than one. Not much isn't better that the Chapel.

So what has everyone been dropping for Silent Clearing?



The flex spots seem be be these:


In all honesty, I would like to have a third Plains as well; the lack of the third one proved a problem in one game. It wouldn't likely have made the difference, it must be said.

The Heaths seem like the obvious first choices, but I do love my Fetid Heaths. The Dunes would probably get voted out as well, but I haven't had it long enough to evaluate it. With the addition of three lands that I really don't want to tap for mana, man-lands become a bit more of a liability, so there's an argument for cutting one. Three additional Revolt triggers reduce the need for fetches and there seem to be plenty of ways to get B on turn-one, so I could see cutting a fetch. The Courtyard might be the hardest to justify, but I'm on twenty-four lands, so there's a real possibility of a Courtyard coming down tapped on turn-four.

I know at least one Heath is going, probably both. If I go back to three Plains, the eighth fetch will get the hook. I'm probably going to leave the Dune for now, so it's down to a Courtyard or a Vent. I'm just not sure yet.

Your thoughts are welcome.

We have quite a luxury of choices now. It's such a contrast to the days when people actually played Isolated Chapel and Caves of Koilos!

Quote from nordberg94 »

Alright, it's me again. Had a great time playing against Eight Whack Goblins! For timing reasons, I had to run Burrenton Forge-Tender instead of Auriok Champion, but still I was able to take roughly 60% of all games played.

Basically, it all came down to me being able to answer his Legion Loyalist in time. Zealous Persecution turned out to be just the card you want when facing all those Foundry Street Denizen.

One thing I also noticed was that I should replace my 4 Caves of Koilos as soon as possible. I suppose I could go for 4 Silent Clearing, as I was flooding quite some games, and also since I don't yet feel like buying Fetches and Shrines (budget again).

Up next I will probably also face a friend's GR Aggro(ish) deck quite a lot, running cards like Atarka's Command, Dryad Militant and Pyroclasm. Would it be smart to go for a bit more discard to try and prevent the surprise blocks with Atarka's or board wipes?

Really looking forward to your helpful answers as always
Cheers
nordberg

Yes, four Caves of Koilos is a bad thing. One or two may not be so bad, but it's not a card one ever wants to see in multiples.

Some number of Silent Clearing is definitely in the no-brainer category. Without Bitterblossom, I wouldn't worry much about running four, but I'm going to start with three. Two of those in one's opening hand is worse than two Caves of Koilos. I run four Horizon Canopies in a GW deck, but BW tokens has the pseudo-card-advantage thing going with the token producers, so it isn't as desperately in need of draw as some other decks are.

Marsh Flats are what you really need, but the budget allows what the budget allows. The Clearings can also trigger revolt although not in a useful manner until turn-three. Two Godless Shrines is about all you want ultimately. If you are short on fetches, as indeed you are, one more Shrine wouldn't be the worst idea in the world, but another W fetch or two is probably a better idea.