But I'm starting to dislike ulamog and his little tutor friend, They are slow and unreliable.
I've also been testing RG Eldrazi Stompy on the side, and it doesn't have that problem because it curves out with World Breaker. Playing it has made me start wondering after puff's assessment of my deck, "why play Tron in Eldrazi at all?" When you can play all the midrange threats, still early, while using green (Ancient Stirrings and Explore) to dig/ramp and have red for cheap removal (but mostly because it's the color attached to Grove of the Burnwillows.)
To be fair, the answer tends to be because people want to cast the legendary Titans, but if they're not working for you, then the other cards worth casting off Tron need to come down early to be super impactful and fit pretty well into just Tron.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Tron in this deck is a nice bonus rather than the main go-to strategy. We just don't have the tools to assemble it reliably on turn 3 or whatever like the RG Tron deck.
Think of this deck like "stompy that can level up" rather than an analogue of other tron decks.
I recommend dropping some number of your six drops and also dropping a Titan. You are running the risk very much of drawing too much late game and never getting there. You'll also be making yourself mulligan away more opening hands which is never a good idea.
Like I said before, the tron lands are for a mid-game boost, some inevitability and being able to go over the top of other strategies in a board stall. Your main path to victory is thought-knots and reality smashers.
It's also why kozilek isn't good against burn in this deck. In RG Tron I can see what you're saying, sure. But they can assemble tron basically every game no matter what (more or less). To say a ten mana creature is good against burn in a deck that can't reliably get to ten mana until maybe turn six or seven.. Well you get what I'm saying. From my own testing, thought-knot has been the real star against burn. It removes some damage from their hand, blocks well, and that's generally all you need to secure a game (assuming you have other threats to play or more thought-knots)
Drop the expensive stuff and add some number of endless ones or something. They have early and late-game relevance. Give it a test.
I've had 0 issues with drawing too many high end threats so far, regardless of Tron. Depending on which version of burn you play against depends on how useful Kozilek is because Burn can ALWAYS come back from behind unless you can snip everything they may try to throw.
Kozilek, the Great Distortion - i want to love this card. the art is amazing, the ability is amazing, the 12/12 with menace is amazing. BUT, the problem with decks like this one are that by the time you realistically land a titan, you are slightly behind on board, and need to break parity or catch up somehow. Ulamog does this better in most cases, and there's no avoiding that. Corner case situations arise when the disrupting shoal ability on Kozilek can shut down an uninteractive combo player, and that's perhaps worth a 2:1 or 1:1 split with Ula and Kozi.... so it's primarily a metagame call. make your choice.
Corner case? Kozilek is better against Burn than any other Eldrazi (yes, even the other Legendary Eldrazi and Ruin Processor), and really any deck that doesn't rely on creatures to win. And sometimes it's nice to draw six or seven cards.
Alright Purklefluff... I'll admit it, there's a good reason to run Endbringer. If for no other reason, opponents generally can't kill all four. Oblivion Sower is still in the back of my mind, but not as a four of. To be honest, the Conduits have been underperforming, so I may test a pair out there eventually.
I'm generally satisfied with how the deck has done. The sideboard needs tweaking, but I am not disappointed with where it is at this moment. The lack of Ghost Quarter and/or Tectonic Edge is a gamble right now that other Tron will not be that big. I'll adapt as needed when the meta starts shaking out.
What I've gotten a feel for in practice is we have a good chance of being a hit this meta game (It'll need to adjust if fast aggro keeps being a thing). As an aside, GR Eldrazi Stompy isn't dead from my testing, so I wonder how many archetypes of Eldrazi survived losing Eye...?
With Deceiver online, drop conduit to search for ulamog.....and at combat, you have a flock of 10/10s and mill their whole library! Pretty taxing mana-wise, but it would be fun at least!
The problem with Deciver of Forms starts with that it's a big guy that doesn't do much other than be a big guy. The only exception I've made so far in those terms with any Eldrazi is Reality Smasher because it has trample, haste, can still come down turn 3 (two if your running Simian Spirit Guide), and has a protection clause. Deceiver has none of those. The scry ability is nice, but if we're looking for advantage that high on the curve, my advice is go down a mana for Endbringer or up all the way to ten mana and play either version of Kozilek. Or play a blue Eldrazi control deck similar to MonoU Tron.
---------
One thing I noticed is Vesuva is picking up. If that's the case, I would recommend Glimmerpost for testing because even without Cloudpost to ruin the meta game, 4-8 life gain lands that accumulate can help stem the tide of damage (although for best results, we're probably getting into Primeval Titan territory and the little known 8-Temple archetype).
One thing that can also be of use if control catches on is that Rise of Eldrazi has some useful Eldrazi as well. Beyond the Titans themselves (which also frustrate mill), there's also Artisan of Kozilek, and every Eldrazi in that set has Annihilator.
But yeah, I've been testing a little here and there and control is on the rise, which may or may not mean much with aggro being a thing still, but Ancestral Vision is definitely more than just a bone tossed to control players (I know because my mono-U Tron deck loves it). So Cavern of Souls and Cast triggers need to be a forethought.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Did a little testing... I found decent reason to keep Urborg in the deck. When I initially posted, I'd forgotten that Urborg enables Oblivion Sower's theft of fetchlands to be more than raking in permanents.
i think that without Eye, there's not a lot of point in running Sower.
part of the reason to run sower at all was to instantly switch on Eye, and from that point tutor up a threat every turn. without eye, Sower is just a big dumb guy that ramps you a bit. I think i'll be running endbringer in its place now. drawing cards or pinging things is a big game in modern.
Sower still helps me because it's a big dumb guy that has cast value, feeds processors (oh yeah, those are back) and can't be Dismembered so easily. Also if we keep eldrazi Titans, All ramp helps. My issue with Endbringer is that it dies too easily before it pulls it weight in value. That's not the Eldrazi way.
Life gain has some relevance, so I'm maining a Ruin Processor because it can be fetched with Conduit of Ruin. Also, Green is in because World Breaker, Ancient Stirring, and Explore (Sylvan Scrying maybe in the future, but I'm looking for more lands than needing Early Tron because that's a different deck for the moment).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Did a little testing... I found decent reason to keep Urborg in the deck. When I initially posted, I'd forgotten that Urborg enables Oblivion Sower's theft of fetchlands to be more than raking in permanents.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
1. Include more Tron Assembly cards. Early Temple is great, but now that mana advantage has been cut in half, meaning Tron and Eldrazi Tron may be on a collision course (meaning Green!).
2. Conduit of Ruin, Sea Gate Wreckage, and/or Endbringer means draw/replace power.
3. Our mana base got a little more flexible. Without Eye of Ugin, the reason to keep Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in the deck is Dismember. We can either suck up the 4, try to off balance it with decent life gain cards, or cut it. Keeping Urborg could also mean building off black for more black cards (Heartless Summoning?).
So... we'll survive. It also might mean that we might have to curve down as to not reach the Titans. (But I somewhat doubt that because why play Tron if not to have them as the aces in the hole?)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
I'm back to Endless One. I made the switch back from Matter Reshaper because I realized it's just more flexible. Undercosted early presence, check. Late game finisher that can hit for 10, check. Matter Reshaper is still on my radar, but I wanted to focus on beats for the moment.
Wastes is an all start. It's importance is continually growing because I keep running into a lot of Ghost Quarters and Path to Exiles. And for me in particular, I have a bad habit of drawing them, so I've upped my count to keep the odds in my favor. Also Blood Moon is a thing that can hurt a LOT with the mid-range threats, and more Wastes means better chances of not being thrown off colorless. I'm also considering Sea Gate Wreckage and Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, namely the latter, for those slots as well.
All is Dust is an AMAZING card... that does not fit into this meta.
Emrakul is in the side for two reasons. First, mill. A few people figured out that it can cheap shot Eldrazi decks every now and again, so the Grave trigger is occasionally important. And second is occasionally I run into hard control, and Emrakul is the go to answer. I may also consider original Kozilek because it's cheaper to cast.
Endbringer, I'm on the fence about, but I decided to give it a shot. I don't remember drawing it yet.
One thing I'm also considering is moving Ratchet Bomb to the Main. See if it can be of use since Affinity and Lingering Souls is a thing, and it's a sweeper that's easy to establish (and granted takes some work).
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Vive, vale. Siquid novisti rectius istis,
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Matter Reshaper over Endless One
This is a test because I like Matter Reshaper's ability to cantrip or advance the battlefield upon death. The reason I chose to cut Endless One is because while I love Endless one, it does not mix as well as I would like with Reshaper *and yes I know Reshaper's ability is a "may"*. I'm also considering cutting Mimic for something that has an impact ability or even swap those out for the Endless Ones, but for now I'm experimenting with utility over beats. This may not stick.
The second Wastes
After reading in this thread about Ghost Quarter underperforming, and I agree because I started with a verbatim netdeck, the second Wastes is my go to option because Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter are rampant. And I always found myself staring at my lone copy as they pathed/Strip Mined me, so the more the merrier.
All is Dust could use replacing or strictly sideboard, but I just used it tonight to play defeat a main deck Blood Moon (also another reason to increase odds of drawing Wastes with more copies). So it pulls its weight. Symmetrical solutions like Oblivion Stone hurt TronDrazi more than just Urzatron because we commit more to the field than them (i've played the deck a long time). Part of integrating Eldrazi and Tron together is that we occasionally get those sweet, sweet early swarms and then Oblivion Stone is odd. I'm not going to say no (It's also good at fighting through Blood Moon faster), but I have reservations.
Splashing Green for Ancient Stirrings and World Breaker would be awesome... if there was room in the mana base. Tron plays 6-8 lands that produce green, then 8 Chromatics. Even then the stars don't always align. And the reason I switched from GR Eldrazi to TronDrazi is they struggle with their Green from time to time and PAINFULLY with pain lands.
All that said, I think there is hope for this deck to catch on as one of the better versions of the Eldrazi Winter Archetype. It's at least one of the more fun ones. We only have a short time to master the deck.
I've also been testing RG Eldrazi Stompy on the side, and it doesn't have that problem because it curves out with World Breaker. Playing it has made me start wondering after puff's assessment of my deck, "why play Tron in Eldrazi at all?" When you can play all the midrange threats, still early, while using green (Ancient Stirrings and Explore) to dig/ramp and have red for cheap removal (but mostly because it's the color attached to Grove of the Burnwillows.)
To be fair, the answer tends to be because people want to cast the legendary Titans, but if they're not working for you, then the other cards worth casting off Tron need to come down early to be super impactful and fit pretty well into just Tron.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
CURRENT DECK: and I'm liking it pretty well:
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Radiant Fountain
2 Vesuva
2 Wastes
Creatures: 21
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Reality Smasher
4 Endbringer
2 Conduit of Ruin
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Expedition Map
2 Oblivion Stone
1 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
Instants: 6
3 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
1 Void Winnower
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
4 Chalice of the Void
2 Damping Matrix
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Gut Shot
1 All is Dust
Alright Purklefluff... I'll admit it, there's a good reason to run Endbringer. If for no other reason, opponents generally can't kill all four. Oblivion Sower is still in the back of my mind, but not as a four of. To be honest, the Conduits have been underperforming, so I may test a pair out there eventually.
I'm generally satisfied with how the deck has done. The sideboard needs tweaking, but I am not disappointed with where it is at this moment. The lack of Ghost Quarter and/or Tectonic Edge is a gamble right now that other Tron will not be that big. I'll adapt as needed when the meta starts shaking out.
What I've gotten a feel for in practice is we have a good chance of being a hit this meta game (It'll need to adjust if fast aggro keeps being a thing). As an aside, GR Eldrazi Stompy isn't dead from my testing, so I wonder how many archetypes of Eldrazi survived losing Eye...?
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
The problem with Deciver of Forms starts with that it's a big guy that doesn't do much other than be a big guy. The only exception I've made so far in those terms with any Eldrazi is Reality Smasher because it has trample, haste, can still come down turn 3 (two if your running Simian Spirit Guide), and has a protection clause. Deceiver has none of those. The scry ability is nice, but if we're looking for advantage that high on the curve, my advice is go down a mana for Endbringer or up all the way to ten mana and play either version of Kozilek. Or play a blue Eldrazi control deck similar to MonoU Tron.
---------
One thing I noticed is Vesuva is picking up. If that's the case, I would recommend Glimmerpost for testing because even without Cloudpost to ruin the meta game, 4-8 life gain lands that accumulate can help stem the tide of damage (although for best results, we're probably getting into Primeval Titan territory and the little known 8-Temple archetype).
One thing that can also be of use if control catches on is that Rise of Eldrazi has some useful Eldrazi as well. Beyond the Titans themselves (which also frustrate mill), there's also Artisan of Kozilek, and every Eldrazi in that set has Annihilator.
But yeah, I've been testing a little here and there and control is on the rise, which may or may not mean much with aggro being a thing still, but Ancestral Vision is definitely more than just a bone tossed to control players (I know because my mono-U Tron deck loves it). So Cavern of Souls and Cast triggers need to be a forethought.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Life gain has some relevance, so I'm maining a Ruin Processor because it can be fetched with Conduit of Ruin. Also, Green is in because World Breaker, Ancient Stirring, and Explore (Sylvan Scrying maybe in the future, but I'm looking for more lands than needing Early Tron because that's a different deck for the moment).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
Ancestral Vision Unbanned
Sword of the Meek Unbanned
We... survived. Without Eye, things we could do.
1. Include more Tron Assembly cards. Early Temple is great, but now that mana advantage has been cut in half, meaning Tron and Eldrazi Tron may be on a collision course (meaning Green!).
2. Conduit of Ruin, Sea Gate Wreckage, and/or Endbringer means draw/replace power.
3. Our mana base got a little more flexible. Without Eye of Ugin, the reason to keep Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth in the deck is Dismember. We can either suck up the 4, try to off balance it with decent life gain cards, or cut it. Keeping Urborg could also mean building off black for more black cards (Heartless Summoning?).
So... we'll survive. It also might mean that we might have to curve down as to not reach the Titans. (But I somewhat doubt that because why play Tron if not to have them as the aces in the hole?)
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Endless One
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
4 Oblivion Sower
1 Conduit of Ruin
1 Endbringer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
3 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Artifacts: 4
4 Expedition Map
Instants: 6
4 Dismember
2 Spatial Contortion
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
2 All is Dust
1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
I'm back to Endless One. I made the switch back from Matter Reshaper because I realized it's just more flexible. Undercosted early presence, check. Late game finisher that can hit for 10, check. Matter Reshaper is still on my radar, but I wanted to focus on beats for the moment.
Wastes is an all start. It's importance is continually growing because I keep running into a lot of Ghost Quarters and Path to Exiles. And for me in particular, I have a bad habit of drawing them, so I've upped my count to keep the odds in my favor. Also Blood Moon is a thing that can hurt a LOT with the mid-range threats, and more Wastes means better chances of not being thrown off colorless. I'm also considering Sea Gate Wreckage and Tomb of the Spirit Dragon, namely the latter, for those slots as well.
All is Dust is an AMAZING card... that does not fit into this meta.
Emrakul is in the side for two reasons. First, mill. A few people figured out that it can cheap shot Eldrazi decks every now and again, so the Grave trigger is occasionally important. And second is occasionally I run into hard control, and Emrakul is the go to answer. I may also consider original Kozilek because it's cheaper to cast.
Endbringer, I'm on the fence about, but I decided to give it a shot. I don't remember drawing it yet.
One thing I'm also considering is moving Ratchet Bomb to the Main. See if it can be of use since Affinity and Lingering Souls is a thing, and it's a sweeper that's easy to establish (and granted takes some work).
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~
4 Eldrazi Mimic
4 Matter Reshaper
4 Oblivion Sower
4 Reality Smasher
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Kozilek, the Great Distortion
2 Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger
Lands (24)
2 Wastes
4 Eldrazi Temple
4 Urza's Mine
4 Urza's Power Plant
4 Urza's Tower
3 Eye of Ugin
3 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Expedition Map
Instants: 7
4 Dismember
3 Spatial Contortion
Sorceries: 2
2 All Is Dust
3 Chalice of the Void
2 Pithing Needle
2 Ratchet Bomb
3 Relic of Progenitus
3 Surgical Extraction
2 Conduit of Ruin
Reasons for changes:
Matter Reshaper over Endless One
This is a test because I like Matter Reshaper's ability to cantrip or advance the battlefield upon death. The reason I chose to cut Endless One is because while I love Endless one, it does not mix as well as I would like with Reshaper *and yes I know Reshaper's ability is a "may"*. I'm also considering cutting Mimic for something that has an impact ability or even swap those out for the Endless Ones, but for now I'm experimenting with utility over beats. This may not stick.
The second Wastes
After reading in this thread about Ghost Quarter underperforming, and I agree because I started with a verbatim netdeck, the second Wastes is my go to option because Path to Exile and Ghost Quarter are rampant. And I always found myself staring at my lone copy as they pathed/Strip Mined me, so the more the merrier.
All is Dust could use replacing or strictly sideboard, but I just used it tonight to play defeat a main deck Blood Moon (also another reason to increase odds of drawing Wastes with more copies). So it pulls its weight. Symmetrical solutions like Oblivion Stone hurt TronDrazi more than just Urzatron because we commit more to the field than them (i've played the deck a long time). Part of integrating Eldrazi and Tron together is that we occasionally get those sweet, sweet early swarms and then Oblivion Stone is odd. I'm not going to say no (It's also good at fighting through Blood Moon faster), but I have reservations.
Splashing Green for Ancient Stirrings and World Breaker would be awesome... if there was room in the mana base. Tron plays 6-8 lands that produce green, then 8 Chromatics. Even then the stars don't always align. And the reason I switched from GR Eldrazi to TronDrazi is they struggle with their Green from time to time and PAINFULLY with pain lands.
All that said, I think there is hope for this deck to catch on as one of the better versions of the Eldrazi Winter Archetype. It's at least one of the more fun ones. We only have a short time to master the deck.
candidus inperti; si nil, his utere mecum.
~~~~~