I'm new in this forum but i have play E&T for sometimes now.
I am wondering who have tried a mono W version of Eldrazi taxes. I think we can have a more stable manabase and potentially more cards like Ghost Quarter or Techtonic edge. Is someone have already tried it? What did you think?
I have made a list but did not buy it yet. I think a mono W E&T deck shoud look like that
There's been a couple lists showing up in scg tournaments and mtgo leagues. I've been playing one similar to yours and I'm pretty happy with it. Compared to traditional mono-white it's a little stronger against combo and ramp decks thanks to TKS but a little weaker against control since you don't really have room for lots of restoration angels. My advice would be to add at least one more displacer, if you're gonna run temple over mutavault you need to make sure that you are getting decent value out of them.
He opened a hand with natural tron, smasher, balista, the equipment with deattouch and lifelink, i just scooped.
EDIT: i'm playing E&T
Mana disruption is key because you're not beating them if they 're casting a lot of spells. Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge are super important. Post-Board side in artifact hate and phyrexian revokers if you have them. Side out 1-toughness creatures like thalia and fickerwisp to avoid ballista blowouts.
What are thoughts on Hallowed Moonlight in the sideboard to fight graveyard recursion, coco, and chord of calling? Does is warrant a slot in the 75, or do we value creatures more? At worst it's a cantrip.
It's pretty bad. You're forced to hold up the two mana every turn and if they don't go for a coco/chord, you get punished really hard. If they do go for it, you essentially counter it (they just choose to not put anything into play) but you're pretty screwed if they have another business spell. Even with dredge it's a lot of "may" triggers so you never get a blowout.
I tried it for a while but it just felt like a worse RiP or Grafdigger's Cage.
What do you think about 2 Dark Confidant in a BW E&T build?
E+T is kind of slow and plays a lot of 3s, which could get awkward. It's also just hard to squeeze in, E+T does not have many flex slots so you'll have to cut something good.
The card is quite powerful though, worth testing at least.
The first and biggest reason to reject copter for me is that it is still a card needing another creature to enable it.
You run 30+ enablers. And if you weren't running copter, would your replacement be any better? If your only creature on the table is the 32nd worst one in your deck, you're probably not in a good spot.
why not play a good equipment instead like Sofai or Solas
Mana mostly. D+T has no shortage of powerful turn 3 plays between 3 drops and vialing in two drops, but turn 2 is different.
TL;DR:
Help me fix my mana base.
Do I need 1 drops (and if so which one should I use)?
How do I answer UW control?
Is there a good resource for specific guides to sideboarding I can look at?
And give general thoughts on decklist.
Mana: With all those colorless lands, four plains is a lot, I'd go down to 2 and replace the others with shrines.
One-drops: Your options are Kytheon, Dryad Militant, Judge's Familiar, and Thraben Inspector. You don't have enough flicker effects to run Inspector imo, and Militant does not play well with Lingering Souls. I think one-drops are really important in copter builds.
UW Control: Be very honest with yourself can you beat a sweeper even if you play around it? If not, go full yolo and hope they don't have it.
Sideboarding; Not that I know of. The decklists and sideboards are too varied to have a solid guide. Plus B/W without the eldrazi package is a pretty fringe build.
General Thoughts: 11 non-creature spells is way too many for a deck with vials. A white vial deck should always have 4 flickerwisps, it's easily the best card in the deck. Either cut the vials and replace then with discard spells, or shave at least 3 spells from the deck.
Hey guys, just picked the deck up and gotta say im extremely happy with it ive been looking for a home in modern for a while i actually played eldrazi and taxes for a bit a while back and am now back to it. have some questions about the mirror, what are the important cards? how do you board? do you keep in arbiters? are there any good mirror breakers its my pet peeve to lose mirrors i hate knowing someone played my own deck better lol
also just went 2-0 against affinity g2 he goes turn 1 ornithopter memnite memnite citadel opal plating, and I WON! stabalized on one and just ducked a galvanic blast for a few turns felt AMAZING!!!
D+T mirrors are pretty grindy. They sort of play out like limited games where you're constantly reassessing your role in the matchup; whether you're the one on offense or on defense. Stat points and combat keywords are super important, in a world of small vanilla creatures, first strike or flying will dominate the game. Anything good in a boardstall, like Eldrazi Displacer or Blade Splicer is great as well.
Arbiters are probably the card you want to cut, but there's probably not much in your sideboard that you want to add. [[Athreos, God of Passage]] would probably be my only add.
If you're playing four colors, but couldn't come up with anything better to play than Kor Skyfisher and 4 copies of a legendary creature, you've done something extremely wrong at some point.
Anybody tips on how to win against Abzan/Melira Collected Company?
Currently playing the BW Eldrazi list, and the match up seemed awful. Pathing a dork seems bad, Sculler isn't much of a tempo play with mainboard artifact hate, and Thalia 1.0 seems pretty worthless with so many dorks. Voice of resurgence and kitchen Finks are extra annoying and almost always a 2-for-1 for the opponent.
Leonin is good against Chord, but doesn't help against collected company. Would trying a black sweeper be worth waiting three turns? Maybe more discard like Thoughtsieze in the side? Maybe a disfigure in the side?
Any tips on the match up?
(edit: card tags)
Your job is to keep them off the combo. Do not use removal on anything that isn't a combo piece, and try to save a ghost quarter for Gavony Township, which is their other real win condition. Without the wincons, Eldrazi Displacer can completely take over the game, since they don't have any removal for it. Against Voice of Resurgence, use your life as a resource and take some hits until you have a good answer for the token (save path for a combo piece unless you are desperate). Thalia having first strike is actually pretty relevant, don't sleep on her as a blocker that can eat Kitchen Finks for free.
I have to ask-- I'm only really looking into Eldrazi&Taxes because I already have most of the cards for it. Is there a specific benefit to playing D&T over it, or is it just a less forceful, more hateful version of the archetype?
Eldrazi trades a little bit of speed and consistency for power. Hand disruption from Thought-Knot is huge, and Displacer gets pretty abusive in the mid/late game.
The downsides are a more painful mana base that essentialy needs to hit three colors, less space for utility lands + creatures, and a higher mana curve. It's easy for stuff like burn and infect to completely run you over if you don't draw a temple.
Compared to regular D+T eldrazi builds gain percentage points against most midrange, control, and combo, but loses percentage points against the linear aggro decks.
Oh yeah I was talking about B/W with the painful manabase. Mono-W gets better against aggro for sure but you lose out on Wasteland Strangler shenanigans.
I have to ask-- I'm only really looking into Eldrazi&Taxes because I already have most of the cards for it. Is there a specific benefit to playing D&T over it, or is it just a less forceful, more hateful version of the archetype?
Eldrazi trades a little bit of speed and consistency for power. Hand disruption from Thought-Knot is huge, and Displacer gets pretty abusive in the mid/late game.
The downsides are a more painful mana base that essentialy needs to hit three colors, less space for utility lands + creatures, and a higher mana curve. It's easy for stuff like burn and infect to completely run you over if you don't draw a temple.
Compared to regular D+T eldrazi builds gain percentage points against most midrange, control, and combo, but loses percentage points against the linear aggro decks.
One thing I notice is how everybody is worried about jund dealing with our threats.. but no one is worried how we deal with their assets? I find specially annoying to deal with kalitas ( considering we have only 4 path)
B/W has a lot of tricks and can try to grind out Jund, but I think G/W and W have to play the matchup more aggressively. Like you said, you can't answer creatures well, so if they develop their board, you don't have good ways to catch up. Your outs against big ground creatures are flickerwisp flying over their blockers and displacer getting to active multiple times a turn. Without hand disruption it's hard to deal with Kalitas + removal. Sometimes in magic you just need to turn your dudes sideways and hope they draw poorly.
Looking at the list you posted 6 days ago, I think there's a few ways you can improve your Jund matchup. You could add a little more beef, cutting Wingmares, Mindcensors, or Thalias for something bigger (Loxodon Smiter, Voice of Resurgence maybe new thalia? Scavenging Ooze seems like a great card to add, it can get huge while shrinking goyfs and keeping them from getting creatures back with command. I think all G/W builds should play at least 2, it is a very hateful bear (especially against dredge).
In General I have no problem beating Jund with a W/U build and I haven't played with B/W much but those cards are the ones I see that are markedly different from other builds that might slow it down, but I forgot about PTE triggering Strangler, without that, it would be incredibly hard to get off. Also Sculler dies to bolt/command, not a good trade, and gets outraced by thought-seize. Thalia even when bolted is a good trade to make, and is also a must kill.
How is sculler getting bolted not a good trade? That's one less bolt that's going to be aimed at my Displacer or Flickerwisp, plus we got information. The deck can't dodge bolt, so forcing one out on one of our weaker cards is still favorable for us.
I agree that it's pretty bad against Command, but the entire deck is. The card is going to be a 2-for-1 no matter what we do.
Specially because.. what else is bad against jund? Even the arbiter is good if you are on the play since It can force him to spend a bolt asap to be able to get a second land drop. Finks and thalia are great agasint jund. Blade splicer is THE card.. what else can we remove? Maybe the flickerwisps? But then we lose some sinergy with the splicers.
I'm fine with boarding out a couple arbiters against midrange decks. The card can be a liability if we aren't strip mining our opponent out of the game. Replacing Arbiter with sideboard hate makes us a lot stronger if the game turns into a topdeck war.
In General Jund is going to be a match-up that is taken into the long game therefore having to many 2 drops can really hurt, although keep in mind that Leonin, Thalia 1.0 and to some degree Selfless Spirit are all good against Jund. The problem with B/W is that the effect of Sculler is almost useless considering how many ways it can be removed, which also means that Wasteland Strangler is worse, and the combo of the two gets ripped by though-seize and inquisition.
It's funny because i would have said the exact opposite. Leonin Arbiter and Thalia are okay but so-so against Jund precisely because the game is going long, and that plus their high land count make it pretty unlikely to mana screw them. At one point they can just ignore them and outclass them with Tarmogoyf/Kalitas.
On the other hand Tidehollow Sculler is a threat that they HAVE to kill if you play it correctly, and they can't ignore it. Ok, it's not formidable because it's not an incredible topdeck but at least when your opponent is hellbent it's a 2/2 for 2. Wasteland Strangler is amazing because if you can trigger him it's card advantage and that's exactly how you beat Jund.
And btw, Aether Vial is pretty bad against Jund too.
Basically against Jund you want as many threats/answers as possible, make as many 2 for 1 as possible even if it lose you some tempo, and have very few cards that "do nothing".
Yea Sculler actually does good against removal heavy decks. Sculler forces a removal spell on your 2-drop while giving you information.
Vial is in a weird place against Jund where it get blown out by K-Command, but on the other hand vial tricks are the best way to get ahead. My current plan is go down to 3 copies but tbqh I have no idea how to sideboard for the matchup. Needle on Liliana seems good but the last guy I played against told me he boards out Liliana because it matches up so poorly against Vials.
Hey guys, new here but have been playing B/W Eldrazi and Taxes for the last few months. Jund seems to be the biggest issue for me currently; I probably have just a 25% win rate or so in sets against it. Here are a couple questions I have in regards to dealing with Jund, as it seems pretty popular on a global scale and local for me:
1) Blade splicer is probably one of our better cards against it, as it is very difficult for them to 1-1 it. What is the right number of copies to run of this creature? I have 2 MD but perhaps it would be worth putting in more in the SB, as it really shines in certain matchups.
2) Any thoughts in Athreos? I haven't tested it much, but it feels pretty strong against Jund or other decks that run a lot of removal. It is a pretty big liability that everything but TKS and smasher die to bolt, and Athreos helps alleviate some of that pain.
3) Is it worth boarding in RIP or relics against Jund?
4) Thoughts on a couple 4-mana plainswalkers in the SB to deal with Jund or other midrange matchups? I'm thinking Sorin or Elspeth here.
1. I run 2. Never considered adding more but the card consistently pulls its weight so I would not mind having another. I don't think it's worth a sideboard slot. It's just not hateful enough.
2. I run one copy of Athreos in my board for mass-removal decks. It's very good when I draw it, but I'm considering cutting it anyways because it doesn't help against path or anger and Jund matchups ended up being more favorable than I expected.
3. I have one mainboard relic that I keep in and that's it. The three cards that care about the graveyard in Jund are Goyf, Ooze, and Kohlagan's Command. Goyf you can path, displace, or get with the flickerwisp->strangler combo. Ooze you can just knock the counters off with Displacer or Flickerwisp. Command is going to be a 2-for-1 no matter how you try to dodge it. Keep in mind that Rest In Peace will shut off Athreos if you draw them both.
4. I don't play Reality Smasher so my land count is too low for walkers. I like BFZ Gideon over Elspeth because six mana is way too much for the 23 lands you probably run.
In my experience the Jund matchup isn't too bad. Jund is a deck filled with cards that trade 1-for-1, and if you can get ahead on cards with Blade Splicer or vial/flickerwis tricks, then they don't have many ways to come back.
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I'm new in this forum but i have play E&T for sometimes now.
I am wondering who have tried a mono W version of Eldrazi taxes. I think we can have a more stable manabase and potentially more cards like Ghost Quarter or Techtonic edge. Is someone have already tried it? What did you think?
I have made a list but did not buy it yet. I think a mono W E&T deck shoud look like that
3x Eldrazi temple
4x Ghost quarter
2x Tectonic edge
1x Eiganjo castle
8x plains
4x Shefet Sand
4x Aether Vial
4x Path to exile
3x Smuggler's Copter
creatures
4x Inspector Thraben
4x Leonin arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2x Eldrazi displacer
4x flickerwisp
2x Blade splicer
1x Aven mindsensor
1x Thalia heretic catha
4x thought-knot seer
There's been a couple lists showing up in scg tournaments and mtgo leagues. I've been playing one similar to yours and I'm pretty happy with it. Compared to traditional mono-white it's a little stronger against combo and ramp decks thanks to TKS but a little weaker against control since you don't really have room for lots of restoration angels. My advice would be to add at least one more displacer, if you're gonna run temple over mutavault you need to make sure that you are getting decent value out of them.
Mana disruption is key because you're not beating them if they 're casting a lot of spells. Ghost Quarter and Tec Edge are super important. Post-Board side in artifact hate and phyrexian revokers if you have them. Side out 1-toughness creatures like thalia and fickerwisp to avoid ballista blowouts.
It's pretty bad. You're forced to hold up the two mana every turn and if they don't go for a coco/chord, you get punished really hard. If they do go for it, you essentially counter it (they just choose to not put anything into play) but you're pretty screwed if they have another business spell. Even with dredge it's a lot of "may" triggers so you never get a blowout.
I tried it for a while but it just felt like a worse RiP or Grafdigger's Cage.
E+T is kind of slow and plays a lot of 3s, which could get awkward. It's also just hard to squeeze in, E+T does not have many flex slots so you'll have to cut something good.
The card is quite powerful though, worth testing at least.
You run 30+ enablers. And if you weren't running copter, would your replacement be any better? If your only creature on the table is the 32nd worst one in your deck, you're probably not in a good spot.
Mana mostly. D+T has no shortage of powerful turn 3 plays between 3 drops and vialing in two drops, but turn 2 is different.
Mana: With all those colorless lands, four plains is a lot, I'd go down to 2 and replace the others with shrines.
One-drops: Your options are Kytheon, Dryad Militant, Judge's Familiar, and Thraben Inspector. You don't have enough flicker effects to run Inspector imo, and Militant does not play well with Lingering Souls. I think one-drops are really important in copter builds.
UW Control: Be very honest with yourself can you beat a sweeper even if you play around it? If not, go full yolo and hope they don't have it.
Sideboarding; Not that I know of. The decklists and sideboards are too varied to have a solid guide. Plus B/W without the eldrazi package is a pretty fringe build.
General Thoughts: 11 non-creature spells is way too many for a deck with vials. A white vial deck should always have 4 flickerwisps, it's easily the best card in the deck. Either cut the vials and replace then with discard spells, or shave at least 3 spells from the deck.
D+T mirrors are pretty grindy. They sort of play out like limited games where you're constantly reassessing your role in the matchup; whether you're the one on offense or on defense. Stat points and combat keywords are super important, in a world of small vanilla creatures, first strike or flying will dominate the game. Anything good in a boardstall, like Eldrazi Displacer or Blade Splicer is great as well.
Arbiters are probably the card you want to cut, but there's probably not much in your sideboard that you want to add. [[Athreos, God of Passage]] would probably be my only add.
Your job is to keep them off the combo. Do not use removal on anything that isn't a combo piece, and try to save a ghost quarter for Gavony Township, which is their other real win condition. Without the wincons, Eldrazi Displacer can completely take over the game, since they don't have any removal for it. Against Voice of Resurgence, use your life as a resource and take some hits until you have a good answer for the token (save path for a combo piece unless you are desperate). Thalia having first strike is actually pretty relevant, don't sleep on her as a blocker that can eat Kitchen Finks for free.
Oh yeah I was talking about B/W with the painful manabase. Mono-W gets better against aggro for sure but you lose out on Wasteland Strangler shenanigans.
Eldrazi trades a little bit of speed and consistency for power. Hand disruption from Thought-Knot is huge, and Displacer gets pretty abusive in the mid/late game.
The downsides are a more painful mana base that essentialy needs to hit three colors, less space for utility lands + creatures, and a higher mana curve. It's easy for stuff like burn and infect to completely run you over if you don't draw a temple.
Compared to regular D+T eldrazi builds gain percentage points against most midrange, control, and combo, but loses percentage points against the linear aggro decks.
B/W has a lot of tricks and can try to grind out Jund, but I think G/W and W have to play the matchup more aggressively. Like you said, you can't answer creatures well, so if they develop their board, you don't have good ways to catch up. Your outs against big ground creatures are flickerwisp flying over their blockers and displacer getting to active multiple times a turn. Without hand disruption it's hard to deal with Kalitas + removal. Sometimes in magic you just need to turn your dudes sideways and hope they draw poorly.
Looking at the list you posted 6 days ago, I think there's a few ways you can improve your Jund matchup. You could add a little more beef, cutting Wingmares, Mindcensors, or Thalias for something bigger (Loxodon Smiter, Voice of Resurgence maybe new thalia? Scavenging Ooze seems like a great card to add, it can get huge while shrinking goyfs and keeping them from getting creatures back with command. I think all G/W builds should play at least 2, it is a very hateful bear (especially against dredge).
How is sculler getting bolted not a good trade? That's one less bolt that's going to be aimed at my Displacer or Flickerwisp, plus we got information. The deck can't dodge bolt, so forcing one out on one of our weaker cards is still favorable for us.
I agree that it's pretty bad against Command, but the entire deck is. The card is going to be a 2-for-1 no matter what we do.
I'm fine with boarding out a couple arbiters against midrange decks. The card can be a liability if we aren't strip mining our opponent out of the game. Replacing Arbiter with sideboard hate makes us a lot stronger if the game turns into a topdeck war.
Yea Sculler actually does good against removal heavy decks. Sculler forces a removal spell on your 2-drop while giving you information.
Vial is in a weird place against Jund where it get blown out by K-Command, but on the other hand vial tricks are the best way to get ahead. My current plan is go down to 3 copies but tbqh I have no idea how to sideboard for the matchup. Needle on Liliana seems good but the last guy I played against told me he boards out Liliana because it matches up so poorly against Vials.
1. I run 2. Never considered adding more but the card consistently pulls its weight so I would not mind having another. I don't think it's worth a sideboard slot. It's just not hateful enough.
2. I run one copy of Athreos in my board for mass-removal decks. It's very good when I draw it, but I'm considering cutting it anyways because it doesn't help against path or anger and Jund matchups ended up being more favorable than I expected.
3. I have one mainboard relic that I keep in and that's it. The three cards that care about the graveyard in Jund are Goyf, Ooze, and Kohlagan's Command. Goyf you can path, displace, or get with the flickerwisp->strangler combo. Ooze you can just knock the counters off with Displacer or Flickerwisp. Command is going to be a 2-for-1 no matter how you try to dodge it. Keep in mind that Rest In Peace will shut off Athreos if you draw them both.
4. I don't play Reality Smasher so my land count is too low for walkers. I like BFZ Gideon over Elspeth because six mana is way too much for the 23 lands you probably run.
In my experience the Jund matchup isn't too bad. Jund is a deck filled with cards that trade 1-for-1, and if you can get ahead on cards with Blade Splicer or vial/flickerwis tricks, then they don't have many ways to come back.