One question; is thought-knot seer good enough on its own? I was talking to a more modern savvy friend and he was saying I should run TKS maindeck in my mono white version, but I am hesitant to run it alongside restoration angel, because I want my curve to end relatively low, and having more than 4 four-drops seems like the wrong way to go.
With Eldrazi Temple you've gotta take TKS, for 3 mana or flukey on turn 2 it becomes irreplaceable.
Outside of that I'd stick to Resto Angel. Resto Angel makes Flickerwisp instant outside of vial which is huge, even if you're not running prime flicker targets like Blade Splicer having Resto Angel is great just for use like a counterspell against removal as well and the fact it's outside of bolt + decay range with evasion.
At the end of the day the 4 drop slot really depends on your list. If I was running the list like White Weeny aggro I'd probably want something like Hero of Bladehold or maybe Ranger of Eos if I wanted to grind out games with levellers and HoP. Magus of the Moat is neat as well. Really it depends on the list but for most lists I'd say Resto Angel if you're not running Eldrazi Temple.
What is the best matchup for this deck and the worst matchup? I've been considering building this deck from time to time because of my access of Aether Vial from playing Merfolk. The more I know about matchups ahead of time, the better I know how to combat it.
This is a metagame deck. It doesn't really have good or bad matchups, because your matchups are going to be dictated by your flex slots and sideboard.
Knowing nothing about your list, "good" matchups are typically things like Tron (especially U-Tron) and Ad Nauseam. The reason is because both the Thalia and searchtaxes are live, and those decks aren't heavy on removal.
By contrast, "bad" matchups are things like Merfolk and Elves. That's because both of those decks don't care about Thalia or search taxes.
But as example, if you play WG D&T with Choke in the sideboard and Mirrodin Crusader in the maindeck, your "bad" matchups will be much better.
This is Modern. You can't fight everything, so you just have to decide what you're willing to lose to, and then build your deck accordingly.
I find Magus of the Moat and/or Worship are really good vs. Elves and Merfolk as neither of them run much removal and both rely on swinging through with brute force in a lot of matches.
Choke is good in the deck though. When you're running landhate for non-Island sources of Blue like manlands you can really mess with any deck running Blue with Choke.
In GW Gaddok Teeg is great in certain metas. He's very strong vs. Jeskai as he shuts of Cryptic, Sphinx and Verdict and he's very good against Tron also. There are also the odd Combo decks he messes with like Ad Nauseam and Scapeshift.
@Sabinfrost, normally I'd recommend running 14 etb untapped G sources for powering out a first turn hierarch which will enable some super strong plays. Kitchen finks is good but I think it's probably the easiest cut to make here. Scooze is still incredibly strong vs the non-tron meta. Stirring wildwood is also fantastic against Grindy matchups but that's a meta call and tec edge is great vs combo.
Out 2 Finks, in 2 Scooze is easy done. I wouldn't want to take out 3 as they're great value with Restoration Angel, Gavony Township and Flickerwisp. I was thinking about dropping 1 Finks and running 1 Scooze actually. I like Flagstone because I can tap it for White and GQ it to give me GW basics on the field if I don't have Arbiter out, helps filter some colourless hands. I do get the point about going up 1 more Green t1 for more consistent Green mana though, maybe Brushland could be better than a Basic Forest? Stirring Wildwood might be worth it for more solid mana, I do really like Tectonic Edge however, I'm not sold on a potential 3/4 without evasion being better than the ability to punish an opponents lategame by denying them their own manlands or certain colours of mana.
I've been chipping away at GW Taxes and I think it's getting somewhere. A Scooze or two feels like it would be worthwhile but I'm not sure instead of what.
Resto and Displacer do have a similar role in the deck, but i don't think that a bit of redudancy is bad in that regard. The best things about Resto is that she is harder to kill and a much better beater. Also, people don't expect it as much as Displacer/Flickwisp.
As for Sea Gate Wreckage, it has been good to me. I'm finding myself hellbent often against grindy decks in the late game, and i usually lose the top deck war agains those decks. Sea Gate helped a little in that situation, so i'm keeping it in for now.
I'd be worried about the curve, even with AEther Vial in a deck that's not running Green you're not running a lot of land when you factor in the fact you're destroying your own GQ's a lot of the time. I like Restoration Angel, Flickerwisp is twice as good when it's instant speed which Resto Angel gives you outside of vial. In a list running Eldrazi Temple I wouldn't cut TKS for it though and I don't think I'd run it alongside TKS as the mana requirements of that many 4 drops would be a bit steep for the deck.
Hey, guys! So i decided to give E&T another try but i really wanted to play Restoration Angel. I feel like the card is just too good in this deck to completely remove it. Anyways, i decided to rock some friendly leagues to test out my list and managed to get three 4-1's and a 5-0 with it in a row:
Overall the deck felt good. I still don't like the manabase but i guess i can't do anything about that.
Also, people seems to hate our deck so much:
I've always kind of felt that because of Displacer/Flickerwisp and Eldrazi Temple and how it interacts with Displacer that Resto Angel would be kind of redundant. TKS is so good as well, especially with Strangler as TKS creates more opportunities for it to go off.
This is my current list, as far as most lists go I find it's very vanilla but that also means it's very consistent and easy to grasp for anyone new to D&T. It has weak spots but overall I find it naturally nerfs Modern due to the over-reliance on fetchlands for fix greedy mana. It also works well as it never loses out on tempo/struggles for colour with the land. It lets it consistently play threats on time.
Hi guys, i'm glad to report I was able to enter my first ever Top 8 using the deck below and was able to reach 4th place. Still didn't know how to sideboard but I just winged it since no replied here. lol. Anyway, I have a few question:
1. What creatures do we remove against Jund & Junk? I was able to win with a timely Tidehollow, Strangler and on the back of RIP, wasn't able to draw Gideon to know if he carries his weight against this deck.
2. Against Merfolk and Elves, what do we do? lol. I actually switched out Wrath of god for Gideon, but when I was playing against Elves and was able to draw Gideon (not sure why I inserted him against them. lol), wished it was *** instead. @_@
Hope someone replies, and could someone freaking make a thread for specifically Eldrazi Taxes?? I'm not that experienced to make one myself but I really think a thread of its own would be nice.
Every list is different. What I do vs. Jund/Junk as Mono-White would be very different to what you'd do. I have maindeck Spellskites which can help protect the Arbiters from removal.
Vs. Elves/Eldrazi/Merfolk I board out 2 Resto Angels and board in 2 Magus of the Moat. Magus is a very strong bridge vs. those decks as they tend to be low on removal spells as they rely on brute force and swinging through rather than clearing a path with spells. Worship would probably work better for builds light on Thalia or running Lingering Souls. I run 4 GQ/4 Tec Edge so it's unrealistic me trying to hit 5 land to play Worship through Thalia.
Even without Vial Stony is still a nonbo with Thalia. I run Kataki as it's zero hassle and still hits Affinity and Lantern hard. You miss out vs. Tron but it does fine otherwise
Question: why doesn't Lingering Souls see more play in BW Eldrazi and Taxes?
It's a non-bo with Thalia. A lot of BW decks still run her. It's also a very slow clock, works well in grindy matches or alongside anthems, in a D&T list it's sometimes too slow. It's also a non-bo with Flickerwisp and the 3 drop slot is competitive. Mindcensor is great but underplayed, Sin Collector and Wasteland Strangler compete for slots in BW as does Displacer depending on the list. Plus you know, usual suspects like Splicer, Finks, Brimaz.
First off,
Kataki is obvious, it's less of a non-bo with vial and hates out Affinity and makes life a lot harder on Lantern Control.
Burrenton Forge-Tender is a 1 for 1 with any 1 drops the deck runs when relevant. I personally run 4 Judge's Familiar but I know a lot of people like Dryad Militant or Kytheon, I've seen WB decks just run handhate as a t1 non-vial play as well.
I still feel Rest in Peace in some quantity is necessary. A bunch of combo decks right now use the graveyard like Thopters, Living End, Abzan Company and Vengeance decks. Dredge is still definitely a thing post-Grave Troll as well. It just came second at GP Brisbane. Catharic Reunion tipped that deck over the edge, not Grave-Troll, he's just been swapped out for Golgari Thug.
Surgical Extraction I mostly run for Tron. Tron is still around. GB Tron running Fatal Push and Collective Brutality is one of the better ones. t1 GQ on a Tron land into extraction = game. Given how common a lot of GY based strategies are right now it doesn't hurt to have Surgical Extraction to punish them either. I've found it really strong vs. Grixis Delve on a Tarn.
Grafdigger's Cage helps against some but not all GY based strategies. It doesn't stop Delve and it doesn't stop Living End but where it fails it has added use outside of that vs. CoCo decks as it stops Collected Company and Chord of Calling. We already run a bunch of search hate for Chord but CoCo and CoCo-style effects can still be painful.
Magus of the Moat has proven to be very strong for me vs. Eldrazi, Merfolk and Elves. Those decks, particularly Eldrazi, don't run much in the way of removal as they tend to try avoid and swing through your blockers. What removal they do have will often go to removing your hatebears before Magus hits the field.
Leyline causes Burn to scoop a lot of the time. It's one of the most surefire ways to shut the deck down. It also stops a lot of combos like Scapeshift and Ad Nauseum from going off.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is honestly just because Cheeri0s is fast emerging as a serious threat. There are other decks it punishes. I've been considering maindecking one with a second on the side because Snapcaster is so popular and I don't run Militant. I've found even outside of specific Storm-style decks like Cheeri0s I never dislike seeing one as it makes life a lot harder for even simple things like Serum Visions into something else. It's not a card you want multiples of but I definitely wouldn't sleep on it's potential, particularly as we don't suffer from it due to vial and not generally deploying multiple threats a turn outside of it.
It's worth noting as well I have 2 Spellskite mainboard and as I run 24 land in Mono White (16 White Sources, 4 GQ, 4 Tec Edge) I also run four 4 drops including 1 copy of Linvala. If I didn't have Linvala or Spellskite I'd probably want them sideboard. Linvala is very effective when relevant against decks like Kiki-Chord, Abzan Company and Griselbrand, also has many other random applications like against some Affinity creatures, Ezuri, even stopping Tasigur generating near limitless card advantage. Spellskite is still essential as a bodyguard and due to Infect and it's other random applications like Bogles. While all in Suicide Zoo Combo has disappeared more balanced Suicide Jund is definitely a thing.
Most of it is self-explanatory, Linvala is mainboard because she hurts a bunch of popular decks right now like CoCo and overall isn't a bad card regardless being outside of bolt+decay range with evasion. Leyline of Sanctity is there instead of running Magus vs. certain combo decks like Ad Nauseum and Scapeshift. Burrenton is relevant matchups, Spellskite is mostly for Infect and Suicide Zoo and Selfless Spirit comes in for Serra Avenger against decks that load up on boardwipes like Pyroclasm / Anger / Kozileks etc. Serra Avenger on the mainboard plays the same role as Blade Splicer/Kitchen Finks in curbing aggressive creature based strategies, it's a much better wincon alongside Magus and the deck often deploys too many threats to simply bolt everything.
The main use I find for Flickerwisp is vialing it in during their draw step to deny them a land until their end step. It really hurts the tempo of most decks
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With Eldrazi Temple you've gotta take TKS, for 3 mana or flukey on turn 2 it becomes irreplaceable.
Outside of that I'd stick to Resto Angel. Resto Angel makes Flickerwisp instant outside of vial which is huge, even if you're not running prime flicker targets like Blade Splicer having Resto Angel is great just for use like a counterspell against removal as well and the fact it's outside of bolt + decay range with evasion.
At the end of the day the 4 drop slot really depends on your list. If I was running the list like White Weeny aggro I'd probably want something like Hero of Bladehold or maybe Ranger of Eos if I wanted to grind out games with levellers and HoP. Magus of the Moat is neat as well. Really it depends on the list but for most lists I'd say Resto Angel if you're not running Eldrazi Temple.
I find Magus of the Moat and/or Worship are really good vs. Elves and Merfolk as neither of them run much removal and both rely on swinging through with brute force in a lot of matches.
Choke is good in the deck though. When you're running landhate for non-Island sources of Blue like manlands you can really mess with any deck running Blue with Choke.
In GW Gaddok Teeg is great in certain metas. He's very strong vs. Jeskai as he shuts of Cryptic, Sphinx and Verdict and he's very good against Tron also. There are also the odd Combo decks he messes with like Ad Nauseam and Scapeshift.
Out 2 Finks, in 2 Scooze is easy done. I wouldn't want to take out 3 as they're great value with Restoration Angel, Gavony Township and Flickerwisp. I was thinking about dropping 1 Finks and running 1 Scooze actually. I like Flagstone because I can tap it for White and GQ it to give me GW basics on the field if I don't have Arbiter out, helps filter some colourless hands. I do get the point about going up 1 more Green t1 for more consistent Green mana though, maybe Brushland could be better than a Basic Forest? Stirring Wildwood might be worth it for more solid mana, I do really like Tectonic Edge however, I'm not sold on a potential 3/4 without evasion being better than the ability to punish an opponents lategame by denying them their own manlands or certain colours of mana.
Edit - anyway, see how this looks,
4 Path to Exile
4 Noble Hierarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
2 Kitchen Finks
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Restoration Angel
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Plains
2 Forest
1 Gavony Township
I want to keep Tec Edge. Overall I'm pretty happy with this.
4 Path to Exile
4 Noble Heirarch
4 Leonin Arbiter
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Selfless Spirit
2 Qasali Pridemage
4 Kitchen Finks
2 Aven Mindcensor
3 Restoration Angel
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Horizon Canopy
4 Temple Garden
4 Ghost Quarter
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Plains
1 Forest
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Gavony Township
I've been chipping away at GW Taxes and I think it's getting somewhere. A Scooze or two feels like it would be worthwhile but I'm not sure instead of what.
I'd be worried about the curve, even with AEther Vial in a deck that's not running Green you're not running a lot of land when you factor in the fact you're destroying your own GQ's a lot of the time. I like Restoration Angel, Flickerwisp is twice as good when it's instant speed which Resto Angel gives you outside of vial. In a list running Eldrazi Temple I wouldn't cut TKS for it though and I don't think I'd run it alongside TKS as the mana requirements of that many 4 drops would be a bit steep for the deck.
I've always kind of felt that because of Displacer/Flickerwisp and Eldrazi Temple and how it interacts with Displacer that Resto Angel would be kind of redundant. TKS is so good as well, especially with Strangler as TKS creates more opportunities for it to go off.
I can see it being effective in builds that run LoTV but I often find I don't have 0 cards in hand.
4x Aether Vial
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Serra Avenger
2x Selfless Spirit
4x Aven Mindcensor
3x Restoration Angel
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Flagstones of Trokair
13x Plains
Sideboard
2x Burrenton Forge-tender
2x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
2x Magus of the Moat
2x Leyline of Sanctity
2x Spellskite
Every list is different. What I do vs. Jund/Junk as Mono-White would be very different to what you'd do. I have maindeck Spellskites which can help protect the Arbiters from removal.
Vs. Elves/Eldrazi/Merfolk I board out 2 Resto Angels and board in 2 Magus of the Moat. Magus is a very strong bridge vs. those decks as they tend to be low on removal spells as they rely on brute force and swinging through rather than clearing a path with spells. Worship would probably work better for builds light on Thalia or running Lingering Souls. I run 4 GQ/4 Tec Edge so it's unrealistic me trying to hit 5 land to play Worship through Thalia.
It's a non-bo with Thalia. A lot of BW decks still run her. It's also a very slow clock, works well in grindy matches or alongside anthems, in a D&T list it's sometimes too slow. It's also a non-bo with Flickerwisp and the 3 drop slot is competitive. Mindcensor is great but underplayed, Sin Collector and Wasteland Strangler compete for slots in BW as does Displacer depending on the list. Plus you know, usual suspects like Splicer, Finks, Brimaz.
2x Burrenton Forge-tender
2x Rest in Peace
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Grafdigger's Cage
2x Magus of the Moat
2x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Eidolon of Rhetoric
First off,
Kataki is obvious, it's less of a non-bo with vial and hates out Affinity and makes life a lot harder on Lantern Control.
Burrenton Forge-Tender is a 1 for 1 with any 1 drops the deck runs when relevant. I personally run 4 Judge's Familiar but I know a lot of people like Dryad Militant or Kytheon, I've seen WB decks just run handhate as a t1 non-vial play as well.
I still feel Rest in Peace in some quantity is necessary. A bunch of combo decks right now use the graveyard like Thopters, Living End, Abzan Company and Vengeance decks. Dredge is still definitely a thing post-Grave Troll as well. It just came second at GP Brisbane. Catharic Reunion tipped that deck over the edge, not Grave-Troll, he's just been swapped out for Golgari Thug.
Surgical Extraction I mostly run for Tron. Tron is still around. GB Tron running Fatal Push and Collective Brutality is one of the better ones. t1 GQ on a Tron land into extraction = game. Given how common a lot of GY based strategies are right now it doesn't hurt to have Surgical Extraction to punish them either. I've found it really strong vs. Grixis Delve on a Tarn.
Grafdigger's Cage helps against some but not all GY based strategies. It doesn't stop Delve and it doesn't stop Living End but where it fails it has added use outside of that vs. CoCo decks as it stops Collected Company and Chord of Calling. We already run a bunch of search hate for Chord but CoCo and CoCo-style effects can still be painful.
Magus of the Moat has proven to be very strong for me vs. Eldrazi, Merfolk and Elves. Those decks, particularly Eldrazi, don't run much in the way of removal as they tend to try avoid and swing through your blockers. What removal they do have will often go to removing your hatebears before Magus hits the field.
Leyline causes Burn to scoop a lot of the time. It's one of the most surefire ways to shut the deck down. It also stops a lot of combos like Scapeshift and Ad Nauseum from going off.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is honestly just because Cheeri0s is fast emerging as a serious threat. There are other decks it punishes. I've been considering maindecking one with a second on the side because Snapcaster is so popular and I don't run Militant. I've found even outside of specific Storm-style decks like Cheeri0s I never dislike seeing one as it makes life a lot harder for even simple things like Serum Visions into something else. It's not a card you want multiples of but I definitely wouldn't sleep on it's potential, particularly as we don't suffer from it due to vial and not generally deploying multiple threats a turn outside of it.
It's worth noting as well I have 2 Spellskite mainboard and as I run 24 land in Mono White (16 White Sources, 4 GQ, 4 Tec Edge) I also run four 4 drops including 1 copy of Linvala. If I didn't have Linvala or Spellskite I'd probably want them sideboard. Linvala is very effective when relevant against decks like Kiki-Chord, Abzan Company and Griselbrand, also has many other random applications like against some Affinity creatures, Ezuri, even stopping Tasigur generating near limitless card advantage. Spellskite is still essential as a bodyguard and due to Infect and it's other random applications like Bogles. While all in Suicide Zoo Combo has disappeared more balanced Suicide Jund is definitely a thing.
4x Aether Vial
4x Judge's Familiar
4x Leonin Arbiter
4x Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
4x Serra Avenger
4x Flickerwisp
3x Magus of the Moat
1x Linvala, Keeper of Silence
4x Ghost Quarter
4x Tectonic Edge
1x Cavern of Souls
1x Eiganjo Castle
1x Flagstones of Trokair
13x Plains
Sideboard
2x Burrenton Forge-tender
2x Rest in Peace
4x Selfless Spirit
2x Spellskite
2x Leyline of Sanctity
Most of it is self-explanatory, Linvala is mainboard because she hurts a bunch of popular decks right now like CoCo and overall isn't a bad card regardless being outside of bolt+decay range with evasion. Leyline of Sanctity is there instead of running Magus vs. certain combo decks like Ad Nauseum and Scapeshift. Burrenton is relevant matchups, Spellskite is mostly for Infect and Suicide Zoo and Selfless Spirit comes in for Serra Avenger against decks that load up on boardwipes like Pyroclasm / Anger / Kozileks etc. Serra Avenger on the mainboard plays the same role as Blade Splicer/Kitchen Finks in curbing aggressive creature based strategies, it's a much better wincon alongside Magus and the deck often deploys too many threats to simply bolt everything.