Eidolon of Rhetoric is mostly a sideboard card for storm, so if that's not expected, I'd want to add extra removal, like another Sunlance (small creature/mana dork decks) or a Declaration in Stone (token/Lingering Souls decks). I run a Dec in Stone along with 1 Wrath of God and 1 Dusk // Dawn as my sweeper package. Usually 2/3 of those can come in when a matchup calls for sweepers. Lastly, Dec in Stone is great vs Blade Splicer tokens in the mirror as well.
I don't think I'd want to be casting any creature for 8 mana in modern. Akroma, Angel of Wrath probably isn't where you want to be. Maybe you mean Akroma, Angel of Fury? Kind of gimmicky, but can blow people out.
Hey guys im building the mono white version which one is better for sideboard rest in peace or relic of progenitus?
I run a spread because in some matchups I don't want to bring it all in:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
Cage can come in against Collected Company/Chord of Calling/Eldritch Evolution decks, Relics come in against decks that leverage their graveyards (Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, Delve Fatty and Tamogoyf) decks. RIP comes in against dedicated graveyard decks (Dredge, Living End, Reanimator type decks) and Junk.
UW control is a bit of a weird matchup. You want to apply just enough pressure to draw out their Supreme Verdicts. Vial and Thalia are very good against them. Sometimes Arbiter/Ghost Quarter to keep them off 4 lands can win the game. Tectonic Edge can keep them off Supreme Verdict mana if you have Thalia on the board. I have a sideboard Pithing Needle and Oblivion Ring that I bring in post-board.
I just run Burrenton Forge-Tender for Burn/Scapeshift (IE red sweepers like Anger of the Gods/Pyroclasm). Kitchen Finks is fairly slow against Burn, and won't help much against their faster hands. Kor Firewalker is really strong burn hate, but WW isn't trivial in a deck with 14-15 white sources, and it's really only good against Burn (as far as upper tier decks go). I like sideboard cards to have a bit more application than a single tier 1 matchup. I've also been experimenting with 3 x Glory-Bound Initiate main deck, and its life gaining Exert makes it a must answer for Burn. It's seemed good so far, but I do need to test it more.
You can run Aven Mindcensor for Scapeshift if you want, but it's not a sure thing (they run a lot of lands/mountains, so they have a reasonable chance to find something in their top 4). Mindcensor is best vs more Scapeshift oriented builds, rather than the Through the Breach builds that trim copies of Scapeshift itself. Keeping your life total above 18 can also buy you a turn sometimes. I just cut 4 Path to Exile for 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender, 1 Pithing Needle (to name Sakura Tribe Elder), and 1 Oblivion Ring, and attempt to disrupt + race.
Mill you should be able reasonably good against maindeck, but bring in cheap removal like Sunlance or Dismember post-board. Remove Hedron Crap ASAP. The fact that you don't search makes Archive Trap a dead card (don't search if they Ghost Quarter you, unless you're absolutely desperate for mana). Aether Vial is solid against Mesmeric Orb. You can Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge Shelldock Isle. Try to keep them off black mana. Use Flickerwisp on Ensnaring Bridge.
I agree on Serra Avenger, it's one of the few creatures in the deck that plays offense and defense, it's great vs Lingering Souls and Spell Queller too. Coval's Avenger won the SCG invitational for him off a Thraben Inspector clue. It's a very efficient card, and the deck does need a certain number of beaters to help close out the game. Legacy D&T players have learned this over the past year or so, and the general advice they have is that you need 3-4 copies of beaters like Mirran Crusader or Serra Avenger in the main deck in addition to the Stoneforge Mystic package to help you close out games in the aggro role.
Blade Splicer certainly fills this role in Modern, but Since Stoneforge Mystic is banned in modern, the deck needs some help at beating down earlier, and doesn't have a solidified 2 drop dedicated to helping to close out games quickly. If you count Stoneforge + Equipment, the Legacy version of the deck carries 3-4 beater creatures, 4 Stoneforge Mystic, and 3 equipment cards for a total of 10-11 cards dedicated to beating down.
That said, I struggle to run more than one copy of Serra Avenger in modern due to the fact that there are only 10-11 2 cmc slots for creatures in the deck at the moment. I want at minimum 10 2 drops that I can cast on turn 2 (so that I have one 4/5 games on the play, and 5/6 games on the draw). I know that clues can be a turn 2 play, but I'd much rather get on the board if I don't have an Aether Vial with that turn 2 mana.
So I'm looking for more ways to put faster clocks in the deck, and put them on the table more quickly. I'm planning to give 3-4 copies of Glory-Bound Initiate a try in the 2 cmc flex slots this weekend. I figure that it can come down on turn 2, which speeds up our clock given that it's a 3 power creature on turn 2 (something the deck doesn't usually have). They can also make up for the damage the deck now takes from its manabase, be it from Horizon Canopy, or Shefet Dunes. It also gives Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel another proactive value flicker target in the deck if you exert it. Considering how Thraben Inspector has given the deck better proactive plays for Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel that reward us with more cards and increased ability to grind, I currently wonder if Glory-Bound Initiate can make curving into a turn 3 Flickerwisp a stronger proactive beatdown play. Glory-Bound Initiate did help an interesting Esper Control list top 8 a Japanese Grand Prix earlier this year. That version of the deck was using GBI's life gaining Exert to counteract life loss from Painful Truths, and provided the deck with an efficient beater that those type of decks usually lack in Modern. It made the deck work a little bit like a Stoneblade deck in Legacy.
(Link for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/658269#paper)
Shefet Dunes is Certainly Interesting. I think I'll try 1-2. Grats on the 5-0 Catmix!
I like a full playset of Tectonic Edge. When you have two, you can hold priority and activate both of them to blow up two lands. Sometimes taking your opponent from 4 lands to 2 ends games.
I think Sea Gate Wreckage is in opposition of the Thraben Inspector/Flicker/Horizon Canopy plan to put more cards in your hand. I'm not in love with it, especially if you run any number of Canopies. Also, having the colorless mana to activate Sea Gate isn't a sure thing when you're prone to sac your other colorless lands.
I'm running Wrath of God for go wide decks, since I think it's better in matchups where you need help (Elves, Merfolk, Collected Company Combo, and Affinity).
On graveyard hate: 1 mana graveyard hate on turn 1 is more difficult for blue decks (IE Snapcaster decks) to interact with than 2 mana GY hate is on turn 2. If you're on the play with Rest in Peace, it can be hit with Spell Snare or Stubborn Denial, and on the draw it's hit by any of the various 2 mana counterspells running around in U/x/(y) control decks. When you're a turn faster with GY hate, those aren't options for those decks, and getting under Thalia is another upside. I think running either 4 or 5 pieces of GY hate in the board is reasonable, but GY hate is very important right now. I'd have to have something very specific in mind to want to devote a sideboard slot to another non-GY matchup. For example, for the venue I play at on Mondays, there are a lot of activated creature abilities showing up (Affinity, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Elves, and Bant Eldrazi, sometimes in multiples) and fewer GY loving decks that show up. So because of that, I have a Linvala, Keeper of Silence to put in my board for rooms like that at the cost of 1 Relic of Progenitus. I wouldn't do that against a wide, unknown field though. For that room though, it's fine.
For Burn hate, I'm running 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender and 1 Blessed Alliance in the board. BFT is excellent against red sweepers, which you're weak to. The BA is a part of 3 additional removal spells in my board, (1 Sunlance, 1 Dismember, 1 Blessed Alliance). Rarely do all three come in, but frequently 2 will come in post-board. I do miss having a main deck Kitchen Finks in the burn matchup, but it's not a great card currently. It is currently in my "options" box in case the metagame shifts back to Finks being better than Mirran Crusader in those 3 CMC flex slots.
Is Sunlance seriously the best available card for that role? Or has it just been popping up in every deck because of net-decking? I personally like Leonin Relic-Warder or even Condemn better. What are all your thoughts?
I am fairly inexperienced with this archetype in modern and was wondering; what makes Thraben Inspector good in this list? I get that it provides card advantage and combos with flickerwisp, but a 1/2 body seems kind of useless; you're basically paying 3 mana for a chumpblock and cantrip. Dryad Millitant or Judge's Familiar seem much better in that slot from my (inexperienced) point of view.
Thanks for any insight!
I think Thraben Inspector is far and away the best 1 drop for modern D&T. You really want to see more cards if at all possible (especially with Aether Vial in play), because your individual cards are usually of lower power level than your opponent's. Thraben Inspector makes proactive Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel plays much better, especially if you suspect your opponent has removal. It also fills out your curve with a combination of 1, 2 and 3 mana plays. It also has a way of just hanging around on the board waiting to be flickered for value. I don't think mono-white is very competitive without 4 Thraben Inspector and some number of Horizon Canopy.
I mentioned Gemstone Caverns some pages ago. I still like this card quite a bit. I run it as a two of atm and it can be really powerful. Todd Stevens wrote an article about it on SCG if you are interested.
A t1 Arbiter / Thalia into t2 big Thalia is super powerful. The downside is very small as you are not forced to exile if your plan is to go t1 Vial for example. You often have one card in hand you don't really need like an excessive land/Vial/Thalia/.. anyway.
Probably not needed in GW but I like it in my white splash blue list.
I'm going to give running 2 a try in a mono-white list I've been playing for a while. Ever since I put Thalia, Heretic Cathar in the deck, the two Tectonic Edges that I'm running have seemed a little less relevant.
If I run two copies, I have an approximately 22% chance of dropping a Gemstone Caverns turn 0 on the draw. Since Leonin Arbiter, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar are all significantly better on the play, I think it makes a lot of sense. If I later in games draw a second copy of Gemstone Caverns, I can just float mana and legend rule away the first one. That's the worst-case scenario of running two copies and it doesn't seem that bad. Since the second copy has very little in terms of diminishing returns to draw it in the first 7 cards, I think it very well may be worth running two copies.
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I'd drop the Kitchen Finks for Burrenton Forge-Tender. BFT comes down earlier against burn and blocks Goblin Guide and Monstery Swiftspear. It also shuts down red sweepers like Pyroclasm in GR Tron, Whipflare in Affinity, and Anger of the Gods in Jeskai/Scapeshift. If I played Finks, it would be in the maindeck.
Eidolon of Rhetoric is mostly a sideboard card for storm, so if that's not expected, I'd want to add extra removal, like another Sunlance (small creature/mana dork decks) or a Declaration in Stone (token/Lingering Souls decks). I run a Dec in Stone along with 1 Wrath of God and 1 Dusk // Dawn as my sweeper package. Usually 2/3 of those can come in when a matchup calls for sweepers. Lastly, Dec in Stone is great vs Blade Splicer tokens in the mirror as well.
I largely prefer Relic of Progenitus to Grafdigger's Cage if I don't expect Collected Company/Chord of Calling/Eldritch Evolution decks, and I especially like Relic for decks like Abzan and Jeskai. Opponents tend to bring in artifact/enchantment hate against D&T, so I mostly like graveyard hate that exiles cards due to that.
As for Birds of Paradise, I'd run a Gavony Township if I had Birds in my deck.
I run a spread because in some matchups I don't want to bring it all in:
1 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Rest in Peace
Cage can come in against Collected Company/Chord of Calling/Eldritch Evolution decks, Relics come in against decks that leverage their graveyards (Snapcaster Mage, Lingering Souls, Delve Fatty and Tamogoyf) decks. RIP comes in against dedicated graveyard decks (Dredge, Living End, Reanimator type decks) and Junk.
You can run Aven Mindcensor for Scapeshift if you want, but it's not a sure thing (they run a lot of lands/mountains, so they have a reasonable chance to find something in their top 4). Mindcensor is best vs more Scapeshift oriented builds, rather than the Through the Breach builds that trim copies of Scapeshift itself. Keeping your life total above 18 can also buy you a turn sometimes. I just cut 4 Path to Exile for 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender, 1 Pithing Needle (to name Sakura Tribe Elder), and 1 Oblivion Ring, and attempt to disrupt + race.
Mill you should be able reasonably good against maindeck, but bring in cheap removal like Sunlance or Dismember post-board. Remove Hedron Crap ASAP. The fact that you don't search makes Archive Trap a dead card (don't search if they Ghost Quarter you, unless you're absolutely desperate for mana). Aether Vial is solid against Mesmeric Orb. You can Ghost Quarter/Tectonic Edge Shelldock Isle. Try to keep them off black mana. Use Flickerwisp on Ensnaring Bridge.
Blade Splicer certainly fills this role in Modern, but Since Stoneforge Mystic is banned in modern, the deck needs some help at beating down earlier, and doesn't have a solidified 2 drop dedicated to helping to close out games quickly. If you count Stoneforge + Equipment, the Legacy version of the deck carries 3-4 beater creatures, 4 Stoneforge Mystic, and 3 equipment cards for a total of 10-11 cards dedicated to beating down.
That said, I struggle to run more than one copy of Serra Avenger in modern due to the fact that there are only 10-11 2 cmc slots for creatures in the deck at the moment. I want at minimum 10 2 drops that I can cast on turn 2 (so that I have one 4/5 games on the play, and 5/6 games on the draw). I know that clues can be a turn 2 play, but I'd much rather get on the board if I don't have an Aether Vial with that turn 2 mana.
So I'm looking for more ways to put faster clocks in the deck, and put them on the table more quickly. I'm planning to give 3-4 copies of Glory-Bound Initiate a try in the 2 cmc flex slots this weekend. I figure that it can come down on turn 2, which speeds up our clock given that it's a 3 power creature on turn 2 (something the deck doesn't usually have). They can also make up for the damage the deck now takes from its manabase, be it from Horizon Canopy, or Shefet Dunes. It also gives Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel another proactive value flicker target in the deck if you exert it. Considering how Thraben Inspector has given the deck better proactive plays for Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel that reward us with more cards and increased ability to grind, I currently wonder if Glory-Bound Initiate can make curving into a turn 3 Flickerwisp a stronger proactive beatdown play. Glory-Bound Initiate did help an interesting Esper Control list top 8 a Japanese Grand Prix earlier this year. That version of the deck was using GBI's life gaining Exert to counteract life loss from Painful Truths, and provided the deck with an efficient beater that those type of decks usually lack in Modern. It made the deck work a little bit like a Stoneblade deck in Legacy.
(Link for reference: https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/658269#paper)
Shefet Dunes is Certainly Interesting. I think I'll try 1-2. Grats on the 5-0 Catmix!
BFT doesn't stop Kozilek's Return (colorless) and it's easy enough to keep GDS off RR for Anger.
I like 1 Sunlance and 1 Dismember.
I'm running one Linvala, Keeper of Secrets occasionally in the board.
I think Sea Gate Wreckage is in opposition of the Thraben Inspector/Flicker/Horizon Canopy plan to put more cards in your hand. I'm not in love with it, especially if you run any number of Canopies. Also, having the colorless mana to activate Sea Gate isn't a sure thing when you're prone to sac your other colorless lands.
I'm running Wrath of God for go wide decks, since I think it's better in matchups where you need help (Elves, Merfolk, Collected Company Combo, and Affinity).
On graveyard hate: 1 mana graveyard hate on turn 1 is more difficult for blue decks (IE Snapcaster decks) to interact with than 2 mana GY hate is on turn 2. If you're on the play with Rest in Peace, it can be hit with Spell Snare or Stubborn Denial, and on the draw it's hit by any of the various 2 mana counterspells running around in U/x/(y) control decks. When you're a turn faster with GY hate, those aren't options for those decks, and getting under Thalia is another upside. I think running either 4 or 5 pieces of GY hate in the board is reasonable, but GY hate is very important right now. I'd have to have something very specific in mind to want to devote a sideboard slot to another non-GY matchup. For example, for the venue I play at on Mondays, there are a lot of activated creature abilities showing up (Affinity, Counters Company, Eldrazi Tron, Elves, and Bant Eldrazi, sometimes in multiples) and fewer GY loving decks that show up. So because of that, I have a Linvala, Keeper of Silence to put in my board for rooms like that at the cost of 1 Relic of Progenitus. I wouldn't do that against a wide, unknown field though. For that room though, it's fine.
For Burn hate, I'm running 2 Burrenton Forge-Tender and 1 Blessed Alliance in the board. BFT is excellent against red sweepers, which you're weak to. The BA is a part of 3 additional removal spells in my board, (1 Sunlance, 1 Dismember, 1 Blessed Alliance). Rarely do all three come in, but frequently 2 will come in post-board. I do miss having a main deck Kitchen Finks in the burn matchup, but it's not a great card currently. It is currently in my "options" box in case the metagame shifts back to Finks being better than Mirran Crusader in those 3 CMC flex slots.
Leonin Relic-Warder isn't really better than Disenchant, Recruiter of the Guard can't find it in modern, Mother of Runes isn't there to protect it in modern.
Sunlance kills mana dorks and other small creatures. Condemn is fairly inflexible due the the attacking requirement.
Another turn one play out of the board doesn't hurt either.
The fact that Relic cantrips helps mono-white's new game plan of replacing cards that you play.
I think Thraben Inspector is far and away the best 1 drop for modern D&T. You really want to see more cards if at all possible (especially with Aether Vial in play), because your individual cards are usually of lower power level than your opponent's. Thraben Inspector makes proactive Flickerwisp and Restoration Angel plays much better, especially if you suspect your opponent has removal. It also fills out your curve with a combination of 1, 2 and 3 mana plays. It also has a way of just hanging around on the board waiting to be flickered for value. I don't think mono-white is very competitive without 4 Thraben Inspector and some number of Horizon Canopy.
Quite the opposite, Harsh Mentor is very good against this deck.
Most likely home for it is in Burn's sideboard.
I'm going to give running 2 a try in a mono-white list I've been playing for a while. Ever since I put Thalia, Heretic Cathar in the deck, the two Tectonic Edges that I'm running have seemed a little less relevant.
If I run two copies, I have an approximately 22% chance of dropping a Gemstone Caverns turn 0 on the draw. Since Leonin Arbiter, Thalia, Guardian of Thraben, and Thalia, Heretic Cathar are all significantly better on the play, I think it makes a lot of sense. If I later in games draw a second copy of Gemstone Caverns, I can just float mana and legend rule away the first one. That's the worst-case scenario of running two copies and it doesn't seem that bad. Since the second copy has very little in terms of diminishing returns to draw it in the first 7 cards, I think it very well may be worth running two copies.