Curious about how you'd use Upheaval. No doubt it's a super powerful effect, but is it hugely beneficial slapping the effect on a body (which could never stay in play)? Sort of feels like Shahrazad, the redux. The game that just never ends. Maybe people will just concede to it so they aren't tortured for an hour? LOL.
Seriously though, there are clearly less than ideal cards to put on this. Things like upheavel or wrath effects negate the 3/3 body, so really just make it a sorcery spell you can blink or cast raise dead/reanimate effects on. Still really powerful obviously and likely worth 5 mana, but losing out on a bit of the value aspect this can bring I feel.
If I put it in my retro cube, Mind's Desire maybe? Or Crush of Wurms (good lord.. lol). I don't know. It's a spell heavy list, so would have a lot of high powered options.
In my midrange cube, I'd never run this card. But if I did, Austere Command would be cool. Or Dig Through Time. Or any of the confluences.
Y'all are arguing whether Arcane Savant with Terror (not even cubed) stapled on would be in every single blue deck or just most of them. And that is probably very near the floor for this card.
So I think the argument is moot.
Would a 3/3 for 3UU with ETB vindicate be an auto-include? Because I think that is closer to your average case scenario (and that is likely being pessimistic). What percentage of the typical cube is instant/sorcery? Enough for spells matter to be an archetype right? How much of that is 3 mana or more? 10% of the cube maybe. So there are roughly 36 cards in a 360 cube you could pair this with that makes it better than Shriekmaw. And this comes with zero color restriction too. Draft whatever and you still have 36 choices.
Even if all you get is a one-shot use out of this card, it's basically child's play to make this card Shriekmaw level of value (i.e. it's an auto including any Ux deck). Staple any 2-3 mana instant or sorcery to it and poof.
If you happen to land a 5+ mana instant or sorcery, the card is probably the best creature in your deck. Add any sort of blink, recursion, bounce (Crystal Shard, etc), and we are talking about an archetype defining card.
And, IMO it is being largely underestimated how powerful it is being able to snag some off-color bomb instant/sorcery that your deck has no chance of casting but that you staple to this dude. Arcane Savant is P1P1 level good.
I'm telling you, Wizard's printed this card specifically with cube in mind. And there's probably an employee or two watching this thread to see what y'all are going to do with it.
In fact, the person working there that came up with this card probably did so because he/she wanted it for their own cube. How many times have you gone to gatherer and searched for a creature that does X when it ETB. And then been disappointed that no such creature exists (or the one that does sucks)? You no longer have to do that because this guy does pretty much anything you want when it ETB. Just draft the card and make it so.
Just like in a regular draft, the cards you drafted that you aren't playing in your maindeck become your "sideboard". So if we don't play with sideboards (i.e. we put the cards we drafted but haven't maindecked back into the cube box after deck construction), this card would require a player to keep one or multiple cards set aside to be used. I hope you can now understand what a sideboard is and what I meant by my original post.
I think we are saying the same thing. Verbiage on Arcane Savant doesn't reference side board specifically, just cards you drafted but didn't include. So you set that card aside, shuffle up your 40 (with no side board), and play. You could just as easily have made a 41 card deck instead of a 40 card deck right and then pulled that card out before the game?
At the end of the day though, it's whatever rule your players want to follow. You can make Arcane Savant unplayable through technicalities, or you can make it work in virtually any format where extra cards can be construed as "drafted but not in your deck". That said, this card is so degenerate, I wouldn't run it in anything other than fully powered cube.
Not sure I understand how side boards factor into this. If you draft, you generally have more cards than go in your deck. So make a 41 card deck, with that 41st card being the one you staple to Arcane Savant (that isn't actually in your deck). No side board required. You can switch cards game to game if you use a side board, so that just makes the card more powerful. But even if you are stuck with just one card stapled to this thing, it's still probably going to be the most powerful blue creature you could possibly run.
Running toxic deluge or damnation for 3UU in my amorous control shell sounds just fine. Even a lightning bolt is serviceable. Usually with time I lose hype on cards, but I keep thinking about best case and worst case scenarios and they all seem great. My question is, what is your worst case scenario with this card, I imagine only really having x spells in sideboard would suck, but that would be almost impossible especially if you draft this guy before p3p15.
Even if this card were literally the last pick you wouldn't end up with that scenario. Worst case you have to take an instant/sorcery that you wanted in your final 23 and instead you choose to run it stapled to this dude (the horror!). I suppose if things went horribly wrong in draft and you literally only had 23 playables and this stuck you with no viable options for that 23rd card (and literally nothing outside the 23 was viable as something to put on this guy). But if that happened, you were probably losing some matches regardless.
I looked at the last several Ux decks I drafted online (obviously with no knowledge of Arcane Savant). In every case, there were at least 2-3 options for things I could staple to this guy that would make him worth more than 5 mana. In all but one case, he would have been completely absurd. Imagine making a blink deck and stapling a storm card to him? This guy plus Hunting Pack and then blink him.
I feel like Wizards printed this to haze the cubing community. Will they run anything high power we print regardless of how broken it is?
I can't help but think the most common use for this card is to splash an off-color bomb card you couldn't normally run but which would be a snap include if you could. So again, you are building a UG deck for example and it has this dude in it and then you see a Vindicate.
And if the blink archetype has fallen by the wayside in your cube, I suspect it's about to make a comeback.
The possibilities with this card are endless. And it requires absolutely no effort to draft around too. Couple it with literally anything that costs 2 or more and it's worth 5 mana. Hell, this plus doom blade is essentially Shriekmaw (a stone cold staple). And I can't imagine that would be the ceiling with your pile of 45 cards.
Every blue deck in existence is going to run this card unless it's curve stops at 4 (what blue deck is that?).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is the best blue creature in cube. It's that good. Maybe in the end I'll have egg on my face (ala Priest of the Blood Rite), but I don't think so.
Already mentioned I think but this goes infinite with a few cards. Momentary Blink for example. Add in something like Purphoros, God of the Forge or Outpost Siege and it just wins the game on resolution (barring immediate instant speed answer). Also works with a reanimation spell (of the non-self damage variety) and goblin bombardment, et all (which is even harder to interrupt since creature removal doesn't stop it). And you don't even have to combo with it to get way more than 3UU worth from simply a value play (dude plus Fact or Fiction for 5 sounds perfectly fine). Never mind the color pie abuse here. GU value deck packing fiery confluence on it's 5 drop with zero red mana sources. Sounds good.
I'm thinking Arcane Savant is going to be it's own archetype. This card is beyond broken.
How about this + Decree of Pain? Decree was a card in cubes for a long time. Very playable at it's cycling cost (so not a narrow combo card), but uttering broken off the back of this new guy. It's Wrath of God and draw a card for each dude you just wrathed for 5 mana.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Curious about how you'd use Upheaval. No doubt it's a super powerful effect, but is it hugely beneficial slapping the effect on a body (which could never stay in play)? Sort of feels like Shahrazad, the redux. The game that just never ends. Maybe people will just concede to it so they aren't tortured for an hour? LOL.
Seriously though, there are clearly less than ideal cards to put on this. Things like upheavel or wrath effects negate the 3/3 body, so really just make it a sorcery spell you can blink or cast raise dead/reanimate effects on. Still really powerful obviously and likely worth 5 mana, but losing out on a bit of the value aspect this can bring I feel.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
In my midrange cube, I'd never run this card. But if I did, Austere Command would be cool. Or Dig Through Time. Or any of the confluences.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Y'all are arguing whether Arcane Savant with Terror (not even cubed) stapled on would be in every single blue deck or just most of them. And that is probably very near the floor for this card.
So I think the argument is moot.
Would a 3/3 for 3UU with ETB vindicate be an auto-include? Because I think that is closer to your average case scenario (and that is likely being pessimistic). What percentage of the typical cube is instant/sorcery? Enough for spells matter to be an archetype right? How much of that is 3 mana or more? 10% of the cube maybe. So there are roughly 36 cards in a 360 cube you could pair this with that makes it better than Shriekmaw. And this comes with zero color restriction too. Draft whatever and you still have 36 choices.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
If you happen to land a 5+ mana instant or sorcery, the card is probably the best creature in your deck. Add any sort of blink, recursion, bounce (Crystal Shard, etc), and we are talking about an archetype defining card.
And, IMO it is being largely underestimated how powerful it is being able to snag some off-color bomb instant/sorcery that your deck has no chance of casting but that you staple to this dude. Arcane Savant is P1P1 level good.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
In fact, the person working there that came up with this card probably did so because he/she wanted it for their own cube. How many times have you gone to gatherer and searched for a creature that does X when it ETB. And then been disappointed that no such creature exists (or the one that does sucks)? You no longer have to do that because this guy does pretty much anything you want when it ETB. Just draft the card and make it so.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I think we are saying the same thing. Verbiage on Arcane Savant doesn't reference side board specifically, just cards you drafted but didn't include. So you set that card aside, shuffle up your 40 (with no side board), and play. You could just as easily have made a 41 card deck instead of a 40 card deck right and then pulled that card out before the game?
At the end of the day though, it's whatever rule your players want to follow. You can make Arcane Savant unplayable through technicalities, or you can make it work in virtually any format where extra cards can be construed as "drafted but not in your deck". That said, this card is so degenerate, I wouldn't run it in anything other than fully powered cube.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Even if this card were literally the last pick you wouldn't end up with that scenario. Worst case you have to take an instant/sorcery that you wanted in your final 23 and instead you choose to run it stapled to this dude (the horror!). I suppose if things went horribly wrong in draft and you literally only had 23 playables and this stuck you with no viable options for that 23rd card (and literally nothing outside the 23 was viable as something to put on this guy). But if that happened, you were probably losing some matches regardless.
I looked at the last several Ux decks I drafted online (obviously with no knowledge of Arcane Savant). In every case, there were at least 2-3 options for things I could staple to this guy that would make him worth more than 5 mana. In all but one case, he would have been completely absurd. Imagine making a blink deck and stapling a storm card to him? This guy plus Hunting Pack and then blink him.
I feel like Wizards printed this to haze the cubing community. Will they run anything high power we print regardless of how broken it is?
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
And if the blink archetype has fallen by the wayside in your cube, I suspect it's about to make a comeback.
The possibilities with this card are endless. And it requires absolutely no effort to draft around too. Couple it with literally anything that costs 2 or more and it's worth 5 mana. Hell, this plus doom blade is essentially Shriekmaw (a stone cold staple). And I can't imagine that would be the ceiling with your pile of 45 cards.
Every blue deck in existence is going to run this card unless it's curve stops at 4 (what blue deck is that?).
I'm going to go out on a limb here and say this is the best blue creature in cube. It's that good. Maybe in the end I'll have egg on my face (ala Priest of the Blood Rite), but I don't think so.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
Fixed that for you.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
I'm thinking Arcane Savant is going to be it's own archetype. This card is beyond broken.
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/modular-cube-5-colors.800/
Retro combo cube thread
http://riptidelab.com/forum/threads/retro-combo-cube.1454/