The sorcery speed and not being able to convoke make it worse than the current option. i thought about how it might just tutor for 0 and get ballista on the battlefield but if you don't also play hardened scales, it won't work. On the other hand if you have infinite mana and want a powerful X-spell, you're simply cast genesis wave and kill with all your shaman triggers.
meh.
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like I said I only know the beast whisperer elves Version without any companies.. it's the only case I agree where I would cut them, too. http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=21591&d=344963&f=MO ..I played against this guy and of course i lost to him. I was 6:2 in the end and place 12. There was another elves player ranked before me
..another tournament of 77 Players I went 5:2 and achieved rank 9
Elves seems fine now, although phoenix is kinda rough. you need the answer to thing in the ice
I never fully switched to the GB plan even after clancaller was printed. With my combo finish I didn't real the impact of Titi since I would just end the game out of nowhere with a well timed chord when the opponent tapped low or out. Being able to chord for ethersworn canonist is real, too.
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@kysg why you're asking this? in GB aggro elves it's the best card in the deck.
In a combosih beast whisperer storm it's not great tbh, but I would say GB elves is better although the combo elf player mate I met at that tournament hasn't that opinion.
He didn't quote, but he was talking to Retswerd, who spoke about cutting collected company from the list.
Personally I feel cutting Coco is a mistake. There isn't a version of elves without the card that will give you overall game against the meta. It's a very solid plan A. If a deck needs to compromise its own plan A, it simply means the deck itself is not viable in a meta. It's like trying to play Storm in a Humans meta - you can maindeck removals, but the whole plan A is now compromised.
I believe elves still have a foothold in the meta. Between the resilience and consistent damage from GB and the toolbox and surprise wins from GW, there should be a place for elves in most metas.
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What is everyone plan against izzet Phoenix? Match is pretty rough and I have been working hard to improve my low win percent against them.
Going back to the GW combo version with devoted druid lets you beat phoenix. In exchange, your UW control MU becomes trash. Not that GB does amazing anyway.
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Perhaps this has been discussed, but what would people think about sideboarding or mainboarding a few copies of Eldrazi Monument? When standard elves were a thing (a while ago at this point) it was good sweeper protection and a win-con in one card, and with Dwynen's elite it should be easy to feed.
Why would you pay 5 mana to assure UW control players that Terminus is indeed a very powerful card? I think they're confident enough as it is.
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Chord and Lead don't go into the same decks so they don't really compete. Lead is great when you're going wide and traditional aggro. When I chord, the game usually ends because I'm chording for Vizier or I already have Vizier and I'm chording for Ezuri. So it depends on what your plan A is.
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Clancaller was what GB needed to make that final leap. Its amazing to see GB finally get its time in the sun. the best part is, the decks that would normally beat up on fair aggro like GB elves are all in hiding, because they just can't deal with unfair aggro like Hollow One and Humans running amok. I'm thinking of switching my Abzan combo into straight GB now.
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but i ask myself what does clancaller better than visionary.
Visionary is never a dead draw, but clancaller is in certain situations
Visionary draws into my wincons ( Ezuri to trample over or SotP for the final punch, comapny lead the stampede)
I often found myself in the situation while testing clancaller, that i rather tap my elves for mana than attacking for two or three because i wanted to cast a lead the stampede or company for example.
Clancaller gives the elves some more aggro where i don´t see my deck at the moment.
I'm not telling you which is better. I'm just saying you have to compare them in response to someone who said they shouldn't be compared because they do different things. They are compared because they compete for the exact same slots. There is no room for both caller and visionary.
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I would never Side Out Elite.
Even against heavy removal Decks it always leaves something behind.
Unfortunately you do have to compare them, because they're at the same spot on the curve. You can't compare it with archdruid functionally because again the CMC is different. If a new 1 drop came along, it would be compared to the one drops because in a deck like this you don't change the curve. We're not comparing clancaller to elite because its too important, as you have mentioned and don't forget that synergy with heritage druid.
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I've been playing elves ever since Shaman of the Pack was spoiled.
However, I decided that i'm going to try a different approach with elves for a coming PPTQ.
I feel that GB's Shaman of the Pack is not that great, because of all the midrange and control decks keeping the board clean. Same goes GW's combo.
Therefore i'm going to try GR. Objective is to swarm elves rather than being combo.
So, you will notice that i've cut CoCo and Chord entirely. These cards are very good, yet less relevant when there is no vizier combo or SotP to find. Ofcourse you can always get the Archdruid Ezuri combo, but i decided to focus entirely on swarming and not have a half and half strategy.
With BBE, Messenger and LtS, the control/midrange matchup becomes alot better. With this list there are so many value cards that both hand and board is filled with elves. Hence that the creature count is higher than other lists, so LtS and Messenger hit more.
Another thing that's different is Arbor Elf. I've cut Nettle Sentinel and made sure every 1 drop produces mana. I've noticed that it's more important to have a dork t1 than GB Elves because of the 4 drops, but also because of the many elves drawn.
I think the curve is smoother now. 14x 1drops, 12x 2drops, 10x 3drops, 6x 4drops. Out of 60-18-6=36 Cascade hits, 22 are really good to hit. LtS and Messenger have 24 good hits. Their hits also get better after fetching.
So, i predict this list:
* works better against midrange/control.
* Against aggro, it might be harder to race with the lack of combo, but the field will be swarmed more. Meaning more blocker and more beaters.
* Will have a difficult time against combo. There is no instant speed interaction to stop them from comboing. Also, Damping Sphere is likely to disrupt myself as much as the opponent with this list, so it's not in the 75.
This is a Meta call for me, because midrange/control is at the upperhand here.
I do would like to have something in the side for KCI and Storm. Ofcourse there are Some Rec sage and Fracturing gust for KCI, but only Gust is instant speed. I was thinking about Abrade, Kill KCI's artifacts and Stom's goblin/baral.
I'm open to any suggestions about the list entirely.
If you think this deck is a bad idea let me know too
Actually if your objective is to swarm with elves and just go all gangsta, I think you don't want to drop Shaman. First, its a cascade target, second, it will often reduce your clock by 1 turn. The black is not really an issue, since we have access to caverns, unclaimed territory, and gilt-leaf is like a zero downside dual land. Relying on these lands would make your manabase less painful and also increase your % against burn.
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Now that you mention that, your deck is kind of like an "elf storm" deck. Why not play nettle sentinel? Combined with heritage druid, it'll really let you go off.
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At this point in time I cannot think of any useful scenario for Vines in modern to be played against the oppo, except maybe infect, but then infect is equipped to handle instant speed shenanigans.
It's kinda hard to imagine your meta, but let's operate on the premise that you're going to modern FNM, so... blind meta.
The main worry I have for your deck is how you need to reset every time the opponent wipes. At the typical FNM you can expect to run into a lot of Supreme Verdicts, Terminus, Anger of the Gods, Damnations. It'll be in the sideboards, sometime mainboards of most established or semi competitive decks, so you'll need to be prepared for that.
I get how the GL archdruid also serves as a card advantage engine, but do remember this is a format with a very high bar for 5 cmc. Perhaps, it can serve as an alt win con alongside ezuri, but I honestly feel like having 4 will more often than not result in clunky hands. Then again I've never played druid tribal with 16 mana dorks (20 if you count heritage).
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Well, my bad for not noticing you were on Druid tribal more than elf tribal.
I sense that you're operating in a casual environment, since what you suggested your deck does is not very possible in even the FNM environment (tapping 7 druids to steal all lands is a very EDH thing, not Modern).
No surprise then that wipes would disrupt you, since your deck relies a lot on that long game. Given what your deck needs to accomplish I would not suggest fecundity, but instead Heroic Intervention. For GY hate, Scavenging Ooze covers a wider range of strategies, letting you recover from wipes with a fatty, gaining life against Aggro, and also eating up important cards in opponent's graveyards.
You mentioned using Vines on the opponent's creatures, I haven't seen that since Splinter Twin was banned, what are you stopping exactly?
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meh.
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I never fully switched to the GB plan even after clancaller was printed. With my combo finish I didn't real the impact of Titi since I would just end the game out of nowhere with a well timed chord when the opponent tapped low or out. Being able to chord for ethersworn canonist is real, too.
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He didn't quote, but he was talking to Retswerd, who spoke about cutting collected company from the list.
Personally I feel cutting Coco is a mistake. There isn't a version of elves without the card that will give you overall game against the meta. It's a very solid plan A. If a deck needs to compromise its own plan A, it simply means the deck itself is not viable in a meta. It's like trying to play Storm in a Humans meta - you can maindeck removals, but the whole plan A is now compromised.
I believe elves still have a foothold in the meta. Between the resilience and consistent damage from GB and the toolbox and surprise wins from GW, there should be a place for elves in most metas.
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Going back to the GW combo version with devoted druid lets you beat phoenix. In exchange, your UW control MU becomes trash. Not that GB does amazing anyway.
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Why would you pay 5 mana to assure UW control players that Terminus is indeed a very powerful card? I think they're confident enough as it is.
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Sideboard Ghostway or Eerie Interlude?
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She costs too much for the mediocre effects she produces. What really nails her coffin is that she dies to lightning bolt even after ticking up.
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I'm not telling you which is better. I'm just saying you have to compare them in response to someone who said they shouldn't be compared because they do different things. They are compared because they compete for the exact same slots. There is no room for both caller and visionary.
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Unfortunately you do have to compare them, because they're at the same spot on the curve. You can't compare it with archdruid functionally because again the CMC is different. If a new 1 drop came along, it would be compared to the one drops because in a deck like this you don't change the curve. We're not comparing clancaller to elite because its too important, as you have mentioned and don't forget that synergy with heritage druid.
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Actually if your objective is to swarm with elves and just go all gangsta, I think you don't want to drop Shaman. First, its a cascade target, second, it will often reduce your clock by 1 turn. The black is not really an issue, since we have access to caverns, unclaimed territory, and gilt-leaf is like a zero downside dual land. Relying on these lands would make your manabase less painful and also increase your % against burn.
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It's kinda hard to imagine your meta, but let's operate on the premise that you're going to modern FNM, so... blind meta.
The main worry I have for your deck is how you need to reset every time the opponent wipes. At the typical FNM you can expect to run into a lot of Supreme Verdicts, Terminus, Anger of the Gods, Damnations. It'll be in the sideboards, sometime mainboards of most established or semi competitive decks, so you'll need to be prepared for that.
I get how the GL archdruid also serves as a card advantage engine, but do remember this is a format with a very high bar for 5 cmc. Perhaps, it can serve as an alt win con alongside ezuri, but I honestly feel like having 4 will more often than not result in clunky hands. Then again I've never played druid tribal with 16 mana dorks (20 if you count heritage).
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I sense that you're operating in a casual environment, since what you suggested your deck does is not very possible in even the FNM environment (tapping 7 druids to steal all lands is a very EDH thing, not Modern).
No surprise then that wipes would disrupt you, since your deck relies a lot on that long game. Given what your deck needs to accomplish I would not suggest fecundity, but instead Heroic Intervention. For GY hate, Scavenging Ooze covers a wider range of strategies, letting you recover from wipes with a fatty, gaining life against Aggro, and also eating up important cards in opponent's graveyards.
You mentioned using Vines on the opponent's creatures, I haven't seen that since Splinter Twin was banned, what are you stopping exactly?
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