You wouldn't not stop playing 2-4 caverns because of field of ruin, that is an illogical argument. The point of elves is just be aggressive as much as possible and save refill cards. I went with the 2/2 chord and LTS split for a better control match up. Otherwise, I would do 3/1 split.
You can't hope to always win and put in niche cards to survive bolt/helix. Unless they are a large number, then SLC would be included in some form. The point of the combo deck is just play a bunch of dorks and play your win con, which is ezuri. Decreasing the amount of copies means u need to be hyper aggressive and wait for a chord/coco + elvish archdruid and hope to hit the ezuri.
The clancaller package helps with the aggression over the draw package. It's also definitely worth visiting to play 2-3 Nissa, voice of zendikar against any control match up.
The card is good vs. stall games like bridge decks/combo/control. It allows some form of damage in while promoting your game plan for the kill. It's a better SB card overall at this point.
I am really wanting to get back to 1 stomping ground and 4 unclaimed/caverns for 4 BBE. BBE is definitely a good card to ramp into next to coco, The haste part is relavant to push in some damage and if terminus is a problem, we can use chord to shuffle the deck and topdeck BBEs.
Beast whisperer is not in the best place right now. It's prob better in some other combo creature deck that can win in one turn.
But it indefinitely helps against your random match ups and the burn all in one without sacrificing SB slots. If you play G/W elves. You will have white Mana from your 11-12 Mana sources. Caverns naming knight isnt ever a bad thing and usually irrelevant that caverns names elves in non control match ups.
4 and 6 are definitely 'late game' in terms of the format. Izoni by itself can stall/win games, while beast whisperer does not. If we ever get to a top decking point and have 6 lands, which is a steep pre req.
I was a bit hasty on whisperer as it is a combo card. I am unsure if it will actually work since you can just play LTS and that IS a combo card as early as t3 without waiting for it stay on the board as a sorcery over a body.
Emmara looks very good as a 2 of to stall with tokens, and they are lifelink. So key at prolonging your game to get the combo pieces.
Assassin's trophy looks to take the spot of abrupt decay, since it should hurt Tron and land based decks more.
Beast worshipper looks to be very interesting, but I believe the format is too fast for this card. 4 Mana do nothing for one turn when the opponent is also 4 or up to 5 Mana. I rather keep up CoCo over playing this card, and if it happens over 80% of your games. You would just cut this card in general, I think it is a 1-2 of against decks like humans, where the only removal is PtE most of the time, this seems to be a SB card to me.
Knight of autumn is going to be the staple 4 of for every G/W build of every elf deck. It gains life for the burn match up, the most important thing for this card is that it helps with CONSISTENCY against random match ups that uses artifacts and enchantments like Cheerios, acension, etc.
The guild mages are bad, nothing to say as they are probably better for standard.
Izoni is the best top deck card in late game for 6 Mana, naturally playing your game u would get 6 tokens, which is a lot of attackers and nets you CA over time. Same as beast whisperer tho against grindier creature based decks. However, naturally getting to 6 Mana means you lose most of the time as well.
These are mostly the only stand out cards that everyone noticed.
Thought knot seer is a lot better, peeks at the hand, it is a body, and it is colorless. Which is mostly relavant. congrats on the results.
I do feel visionary is a lot better than clancaller specifically for G/B because you want to be drawing more of your SB cards to have consistent results. I haven't want to test the champion, although a bunch of 1/1's is indeed the format that isn't humans or tron. Not sure how to cut for it since slots are tight as is. If tokens are a problem, instead of cast down, bile blight could be a better choice for more black heavy decks to kill off token decks.
Dwynen's elite is too good not to run. Cutting elites is a bad call if it's trying to slot in a mediocre lord. Going wide is a better plan than pumping your dudes as well as heritage combos with nettle sentinels. It's prob not good in a combo oriented elfball shell.
Might be going towards an aggressive elfball that doesn't rely on infinite combo or shaman, but that just makes a under average elf aggro deck.
Even in a control heavy meta in Japan? I feel cavern is a lot better there because of more blue decks. Have you also ever played a single boseiju in the SB for control match ups to resolve successful Cocos and LTS.
How I feel about come into play tapped lands is that elvish rejuvenator might be the sole elf card that allows you to run mediocre cards like hall of the bandit lord, boseiju, etc. Into semi playable as it untaps during your next turn and allows you to play your untapped land drop.
Mardhu pyromancer is fine, you just need to topdeck Coco or LTS and they will run out of 1-4-1s against the deck, you can also just dump your hand faster than their discard spells in the midgame and they gained no value from their spells.
The SB part needs a lot of updating, I only did a small part. Would have to pm an entire .doc and see if anyone can edit post. Not sure if I could have the time for that for Prague.
Tron:
2 damp spheres (if SBed)
2 oozes
2 rec sage
3 TS
2 stain the mind (if SB)
Storm/combo using GY:
3 relics
2 oozes
2 rec sage (if KCI)
2 stain the mind (if SB)
3 thoughtseize
4 Thought knot seer (if SB)
Jeskai control:
Relic
Ooze
Thoughtseize
Thought knot seer
Going off Mike's SB list. I think this would fit the current representation of modern.
2 rec sage
3 relic
4 thought knot seer
2 thoughtseize
2 Nissa, voice of zendikar
2 dismember
This is relatively decent against your mid-range, control match ups. You would lose to the affinity match up, unless you want to cut a a sage for one fracturing gust. Burn, you take the 50/50 g2? All you side in are thought knot seers and nissas for more grind and take out boros charms in their hand.
As for SBing out cards, you cut heritage druids, nettle sentinels, and chords/LTS depending on how grindy or fast the match up is. You might even cut some visionaries and a singleton shaman from the full 4 to lower the curve. At least this is what is from my experience and asking friends who play the same deck.
Alright, thanks for the advice.
I'm playing a stock g/b list currently for now and then experiment later when I have the feel for it. Experimenting with the SB is where I usually want to show the creativity.
Infinite Mana is worse g2/g3 as far as in paper goes. Tron lowers their curve and play spatial contortion to interact with your infinite Mana combo. The beat down plan is still better for that match up with SB rec sages and Nissa, voice of zendikar. I decided to listen to some players and took out dampening sphere completely for amulet of safekeeping.
Slowing down my curve hurted me more than it hurts them along with other match ups like storm. So I'll just be playing my 3-4 relics and free up some slots for infernal.
I have been considering the card for a very long time, but I was unsure for this meta. Since the meta is too diverse, I don't know if they would be even good. If say i guess my region is about 60% mid-range + control in the forms of mardhu, scapeshift, jeskai control, and humans. Would SBing about 3-4 TKS be relatively good? I understand the logic and reasoning of also being able to have "better topdeck". TKS is a better topdeck than TS since it is a creature and upside to take a card + information.
I believe in one chord due to Reid talking about double chord hands if you went 3-4. So maximum I would do is 2-1 split and one SB. I am also playing the devoted druid combo plan, hence I would rely on attacking to win and increase ezuri count to 3. Otherwise they can relatively be 3 nettle and 4 clancaller into 2 LTS and 1 chord split.
Devoted forces you into a 3-1 or 4 chord plan because u want to win as soon as possible. How reliable this happens within an 8 round format needs more testing. Since the older stock list gave more consistency and having the random vizier in hand is sometimes awkward within 11 rounds.
I'll play some games at FNM to test. The only way we get to 6 Mana if it's against humans. My FNM is mostly jeskai, human, and hollow ones. So it should be closely similar to playing in an actual REL tournament.
I did play mono green going into G/B, so maybe I should focus shaman as the win con. That means running chord, which is awkward with clancaller because you don't have elves to tap if you are attacking in the early game. I'll wait to see if this is a problem once I pick up everything on release.
Visionary is to help draw into your sideboard cards and consistency reasons. Clancaller gives a more tempo approach, if you are building a clancaller version. You would cut chords for LTS straight up, it's not the same as merfolk. Merfolk has a lot more tools than islandwalk with the power of dominaria.
They still run adept, which is visionary for consistency and CA. Decks that attack do want some sort of evasion, even if you are relying an on alternate win con. The main win con is ezuri, and attacking with a bunch of trample elves.
6 Mana is actually a lot, you don't get to 6 Mana a lot of the times in any games. Otherwise, you would see elves running garruk and playing the LTS ability along with hoof.
I will still pick up 4 clancaller in the case we ever get another 2 Mana lord for an aethervial type of deck. But evasion is important, elves that do something to the board is important, and inevitably we need something like spreading seas to effectively run elvish champion in that style of deck.
Most important difference is running mutavaults. Actually having a manland that gets buffed matters for decks that have a lot of lords.
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You wouldn't not stop playing 2-4 caverns because of field of ruin, that is an illogical argument. The point of elves is just be aggressive as much as possible and save refill cards. I went with the 2/2 chord and LTS split for a better control match up. Otherwise, I would do 3/1 split.
You can't hope to always win and put in niche cards to survive bolt/helix. Unless they are a large number, then SLC would be included in some form. The point of the combo deck is just play a bunch of dorks and play your win con, which is ezuri. Decreasing the amount of copies means u need to be hyper aggressive and wait for a chord/coco + elvish archdruid and hope to hit the ezuri.
The clancaller package helps with the aggression over the draw package. It's also definitely worth visiting to play 2-3 Nissa, voice of zendikar against any control match up.
I am really wanting to get back to 1 stomping ground and 4 unclaimed/caverns for 4 BBE. BBE is definitely a good card to ramp into next to coco, The haste part is relavant to push in some damage and if terminus is a problem, we can use chord to shuffle the deck and topdeck BBEs.
Beast whisperer is not in the best place right now. It's prob better in some other combo creature deck that can win in one turn.
But it indefinitely helps against your random match ups and the burn all in one without sacrificing SB slots. If you play G/W elves. You will have white Mana from your 11-12 Mana sources. Caverns naming knight isnt ever a bad thing and usually irrelevant that caverns names elves in non control match ups.
4 and 6 are definitely 'late game' in terms of the format. Izoni by itself can stall/win games, while beast whisperer does not. If we ever get to a top decking point and have 6 lands, which is a steep pre req.
I was a bit hasty on whisperer as it is a combo card. I am unsure if it will actually work since you can just play LTS and that IS a combo card as early as t3 without waiting for it stay on the board as a sorcery over a body.
Emmara looks very good as a 2 of to stall with tokens, and they are lifelink. So key at prolonging your game to get the combo pieces.
Assassin's trophy looks to take the spot of abrupt decay, since it should hurt Tron and land based decks more.
Beast worshipper looks to be very interesting, but I believe the format is too fast for this card. 4 Mana do nothing for one turn when the opponent is also 4 or up to 5 Mana. I rather keep up CoCo over playing this card, and if it happens over 80% of your games. You would just cut this card in general, I think it is a 1-2 of against decks like humans, where the only removal is PtE most of the time, this seems to be a SB card to me.
Knight of autumn is going to be the staple 4 of for every G/W build of every elf deck. It gains life for the burn match up, the most important thing for this card is that it helps with CONSISTENCY against random match ups that uses artifacts and enchantments like Cheerios, acension, etc.
The guild mages are bad, nothing to say as they are probably better for standard.
Izoni is the best top deck card in late game for 6 Mana, naturally playing your game u would get 6 tokens, which is a lot of attackers and nets you CA over time. Same as beast whisperer tho against grindier creature based decks. However, naturally getting to 6 Mana means you lose most of the time as well.
These are mostly the only stand out cards that everyone noticed.
I do feel visionary is a lot better than clancaller specifically for G/B because you want to be drawing more of your SB cards to have consistent results. I haven't want to test the champion, although a bunch of 1/1's is indeed the format that isn't humans or tron. Not sure how to cut for it since slots are tight as is. If tokens are a problem, instead of cast down, bile blight could be a better choice for more black heavy decks to kill off token decks.
Might be going towards an aggressive elfball that doesn't rely on infinite combo or shaman, but that just makes a under average elf aggro deck.
How I feel about come into play tapped lands is that elvish rejuvenator might be the sole elf card that allows you to run mediocre cards like hall of the bandit lord, boseiju, etc. Into semi playable as it untaps during your next turn and allows you to play your untapped land drop.
Mardhu pyromancer is fine, you just need to topdeck Coco or LTS and they will run out of 1-4-1s against the deck, you can also just dump your hand faster than their discard spells in the midgame and they gained no value from their spells.
We could give you a tldr based on recent GPs.
Humans:
2 dismember
2 Nissa, voice of zendikar
2 oozes (if SBed)
Tron:
2 damp spheres (if SBed)
2 oozes
2 rec sage
3 TS
2 stain the mind (if SB)
Storm/combo using GY:
3 relics
2 oozes
2 rec sage (if KCI)
2 stain the mind (if SB)
3 thoughtseize
4 Thought knot seer (if SB)
Jeskai control:
Relic
Ooze
Thoughtseize
Thought knot seer
Going off Mike's SB list. I think this would fit the current representation of modern.
2 rec sage
3 relic
4 thought knot seer
2 thoughtseize
2 Nissa, voice of zendikar
2 dismember
This is relatively decent against your mid-range, control match ups. You would lose to the affinity match up, unless you want to cut a a sage for one fracturing gust. Burn, you take the 50/50 g2? All you side in are thought knot seers and nissas for more grind and take out boros charms in their hand.
As for SBing out cards, you cut heritage druids, nettle sentinels, and chords/LTS depending on how grindy or fast the match up is. You might even cut some visionaries and a singleton shaman from the full 4 to lower the curve. At least this is what is from my experience and asking friends who play the same deck.
I'm playing a stock g/b list currently for now and then experiment later when I have the feel for it. Experimenting with the SB is where I usually want to show the creativity.
Slowing down my curve hurted me more than it hurts them along with other match ups like storm. So I'll just be playing my 3-4 relics and free up some slots for infernal.
I have been considering the card for a very long time, but I was unsure for this meta. Since the meta is too diverse, I don't know if they would be even good. If say i guess my region is about 60% mid-range + control in the forms of mardhu, scapeshift, jeskai control, and humans. Would SBing about 3-4 TKS be relatively good? I understand the logic and reasoning of also being able to have "better topdeck". TKS is a better topdeck than TS since it is a creature and upside to take a card + information.
Devoted forces you into a 3-1 or 4 chord plan because u want to win as soon as possible. How reliable this happens within an 8 round format needs more testing. Since the older stock list gave more consistency and having the random vizier in hand is sometimes awkward within 11 rounds.
I did play mono green going into G/B, so maybe I should focus shaman as the win con. That means running chord, which is awkward with clancaller because you don't have elves to tap if you are attacking in the early game. I'll wait to see if this is a problem once I pick up everything on release.
They still run adept, which is visionary for consistency and CA. Decks that attack do want some sort of evasion, even if you are relying an on alternate win con. The main win con is ezuri, and attacking with a bunch of trample elves.
6 Mana is actually a lot, you don't get to 6 Mana a lot of the times in any games. Otherwise, you would see elves running garruk and playing the LTS ability along with hoof.
I will still pick up 4 clancaller in the case we ever get another 2 Mana lord for an aethervial type of deck. But evasion is important, elves that do something to the board is important, and inevitably we need something like spreading seas to effectively run elvish champion in that style of deck.
Most important difference is running mutavaults. Actually having a manland that gets buffed matters for decks that have a lot of lords.