Bring in the K Command vs them, and possibly even By Force. They should have Chalice of the Void postboard.
I don't think that is very common, I don't see any lists on goldfish playing chalice. Is K-command still worth it at with no chalice? I guess engineered explosives gets played in shift.
Chalice is really good against us, and there's still a reasonable chance that any given GR valakut deck has it (to make up a number say 10%), and the downside is low - shock + discard still helps vs them. I think it's worth it.
EE is definitely not worth it though (someone suggested it up thread). It costs 1 less to deal with chalice, but that's basically all it does.
keep in mind a lot of valakut decks have 4 relics in their 75 as well which adds nonzero value to kcommand post game. i used to board out kcommand but i now leave them in vs valakut for these reasons
if we want a resilient mirror breaking creature, how about Hazoret the Fervent? Not at all hard to get him online, and converts useless lands/thoughtseizes late game into damage.
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
It's been apparent that the MTGO meta in the last month or so has been particularly hateful to Grixis Shadows, and this is like the exclamation mark. Think the critics claiming (wrongly, from the start) that Death's Shadow was oppressive and deserves bans are finally being silenced - this deck isn't oppressive nor is it unbeatable.
Now I think it's time for the deck to re-evolve. I'm thinking it starts with increasing the threat base that attacks from a different angle and growing into the Grixis Midrange point of the spectrum. Wouldn't go as far as recommending delver but wouldn't be surprised if we can do well dropping wraiths, add pyromancers, and changing the deck philosophy a bit
Well, my whole point was that the burn player was not forced to adjust their tactics (much) in this game. Going for the second Goblin Guide would have been a way of playing with Death's Shadow in mind. Our burn player doesn't put that much thought into the game. Our burn player just wants maximum possible damage. I also don't think that attacking with two Goblin Guides would have been strictly better. Since the Shadow player has an uncracked fetch at this point, they would have been guaranteed to make use of both Goblin Guide triggers. It would also have given away the information that the Burn player was working with a rather creature-heavy hand.
All of this is definitely worth getting the extra 2 damages from a creature though
I get what Ashiok is for, but I don't think he's good at all for us. He can't protect himself until turn 5, doesn't affect the board until turn 5, and his minus is very unreliable. For all intents and purposes he's a 3 mana do nothing the majority of the times. I'd much rather have either of the Lilianas
Gotta comment that the MTGO metagame these days is very hostile.. You can't play a competitive league without seeing your share of UW Control, Affinity, Burn, Valakut, dorky tribal decks (elves/merfolk/faeries), smallpox variants, and dorky value-oriented coco/taxes variants. Seems like the online meta truly consists of shadow decks and decks that prey on shadow decks. decks like combo (ad nauseam, goryo's vengeance, storm etc) were never a big part of the metagame but they've more or less disappeared online, especially the latter two because of incidental graveyard hate. That being said, I think being proven out that GDS is nowhere near format breaking (and claim/fame isn't nearly the gamebreaking game that LSV proclaimed) and we should be safe from bans (not that we should've ever been concerned).
I've jammed a YP list into a few competitive leagues now. Surprisingly (or not) I found it dead in more matchups than I had expected. it was deader than dead vs affinity, Valakut, not good against burn, merfolk, too slow vs storm. it shone vs UW control where it can take over as a solitary threat that will eat a verdict by himself. and death's shadow. Feels like this can be a SB plan, TBH
I just started playing around with YP. haven't really felt its effect yet. It stole a few games as a solo threat vs UW control when it was unchecked for a few turns and it helped me draw a verdict on only one threat, but i need to test a bit more.
Would appreciate some thoughts on a young pyro build here. Also, I've been trying Claim/Fame and it's definitely not a mainboard card. It's dead as hell in a surprisingly number of matchups. I'm not convinced this card is worth playing, period. Think it could be a pretty good SB card though. Also, I should've known this but Gifts has been terrible. A lot of games you either don't reach 4 mana or the game's over before 4 mana either way
Dismember>Terminate is a concession to YP, but I still hate the card..
I've been playing Kozilek's return for the first time. Been an Angers devout since day 1 because of dredge, coco and other dorky strategies. Been better than advertised - really wrecks affinity
It seems like P&K has worked out well for you.. I'm going to give it a try. What kind of matchups do you bring them in? Assuming it's as simple as "in games where you need more threats". I'm assuming P&K took the slot for Liliana, the Last Hope?
I'm also tempted to ask how you've found LotV and Leak, a combination that doesn't seem to work well in tandem at face value
Yep, the P&Ks replaced LtlH. The theory is this: 1) everyone is playing more GY hate, so LtlH is less good than otherwise, 2) LtlH takes time to deal with swarms while P&K puts a board presence into play immediately, 3) Lingering Souls is really good against us, and this lets us fight back on the same axis while having "1/1 flying token advantage" in mirrors and against midrange decks that don't have something similar, and if they don't have GY hate, K Command + P&K will take over, and 4) Against affinity P&K deals with the manlands AND Etched Champion, the two hardest things to beat. She comes in vs. all grindy matchups and most swarms. BGx, Shadow builds, control decks, other midrange decks, affinity, elves, goblins (yes I've played against it), most blood moon decks, maybe even Dredge (not sure there).
Leak vs. IoK is very close in that build, and in an RPTQ or GP, I'd probably have IoK. Leak just gives you a bit more insurance against random nonsense, and doesn't really conflict that much with LotV. Yes, sometimes you have 1 card in hand and it's a leak, so you both want to +1 Lily and hold the leak. But it doesn't come up that much with just 2 of each. And there's also some synergy there - when Leak becomes bad because they have too many lands, you can pitch it to Lily.
I have not heard anyone suggest the flex spot and 4th Snap should be an LOTV, neither in articles, streams, here, or mtgo lists.
It seems flat out wrong to clunk up your 3 drop more
Snapcaster is already a 3 drop when you consider him
Because no one has but me, as far as I know! Here's my argument (which I've made a few times in the past couple pages): 1) LotV is one of the best cards to have in the mirror and vs most midrange decks, and even against the midrange decks with Lingering Souls she's pretty good - especially if you can deal with Lingering Souls some other way. 2) Similarly, LotV is pretty good against many aggro decks and control decks, though not an all star and not vs the aggro decks that go wide quickly. 3) Vs. most combo decks, discard into threat into LotV is a tried and true strategy that works, so she's pretty good there. 4) Graveyard hate is everywhere right now, so Snapcaster and the Delve creatures can sometimes be stuck in your hand.
LotV is a very powerful card that is at least decent in most matchups and very good in many matchups that doesn't rely on the graveyard to be good. In fact, her +1 lets you get value out of e.g. dead delve creatures in hand while you're under a RiP or Leyline. Now, to fit 2 in the MD, you definitely need to shave one of the three drops. And the 4th Snapcaster gets the cut against because of the GY hate and diminishing returns. So we're only adding 1 more 3 drop to the standard shell. I've been experimenting with having an extra 3 drop MD for most of the existence of this deck - typically in the form of a LotV, and the 19 land build can handle it.
Edit: formatting.
:thumb: good stuff, thanks. I'm going to give it a try. Am very interested in testing LotV/P&K as well as the young pyro versions for the upcoming PPTQs..
also to note if you have Angers you should be bringing those in as answers to the Hangarback (which have been more common lately) as well as being clean answers to Reshapers
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Congratulations on your win! was a very informative and entertaining read.
Creatures (15)
4 Death's Shadow
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Street Wraith
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
Lands (18)
1 Island
1 Swamp
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
2 Watery Grave
Spells (27)
4 Fatal Push
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
4 Thought Scour
2 Claim
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Serum Visions
1 Sleight of Hand
4 Thoughtseize
Sideboard
1 Engineered Explosives
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Kozilek's Return
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Anger of the Gods
1 By Force
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
ctrl+f "colonnade"=5
ctrl+f "Death's shadow"=1
It's been apparent that the MTGO meta in the last month or so has been particularly hateful to Grixis Shadows, and this is like the exclamation mark. Think the critics claiming (wrongly, from the start) that Death's Shadow was oppressive and deserves bans are finally being silenced - this deck isn't oppressive nor is it unbeatable.
Now I think it's time for the deck to re-evolve. I'm thinking it starts with increasing the threat base that attacks from a different angle and growing into the Grixis Midrange point of the spectrum. Wouldn't go as far as recommending delver but wouldn't be surprised if we can do well dropping wraiths, add pyromancers, and changing the deck philosophy a bit
All of this is definitely worth getting the extra 2 damages from a creature though
Am currently working on this
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
3 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Serum Visions
2 Sleight of Hand
3 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
4 Death's Shadow
4 Fatal Push
1 Inquisition ofn Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
1 Lightning Bolt
3 Snapcaster Mage
2 Dismember
1 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Collective Brutality
1 Stubborn Denial
2 Ceremonious Rejection
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Claim/Fame
Dismember>Terminate is a concession to YP, but I still hate the card..
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Steam Vents
1 Swamp
2 Watery Grave
4 Serum Vision
2 Stubborn Denial
4 Thought Scour
4 Death's Shadow
4 Fatal Push
4 Thoughtseize
1 Lightning Bolt
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Young Pyromancer
2 Dismember
2 Kolaghan's Command
4 Street Wraith
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Gurmag Angler
2 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Stubborn Denial
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Kozilek's Return
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Claim/Fame
2 Nihil Spellbomb
:thumb: good stuff, thanks. I'm going to give it a try. Am very interested in testing LotV/P&K as well as the young pyro versions for the upcoming PPTQs..