MTG Salvation

YP is at its best when you can untap and cast a bunch of one mana spells, making a bunch of tokens. Snapcaster does flash back a spell, but it's 3+ mana for 1 spell. I'm not sure that <4 snapcasters is correct in a YP build, but that's definitely where I would go first when testing it. Push the idea to it's limit to really get a feel for how strong it is.

Make sense, next week I will try it out

If you want to play YP you're going to want to capitalize on its potential as much as you can. I would definitely add some number of Sleight of Hands to the list. I originally had Claim in the deck but it was too slow so I just made it a Kommand instead. I'm really liking this leaner version of the deck.

Here's my list for reference:

Your list is basically Ari Lax's list with YP, I tried couple weeks shaving lands and a K. Command. In a competitive meta, where you have tons of Chalices of the Void and LD is so weak... I even tried 18 lands and 2 Sleight... when I got back to the stock 19 lands, never felt soo good. With YP probably we should go down to 18 lands and 2 sleight of hands ? But I really fell that we can't cut K. Command in a serious meta.

I think all of these YP builds have too many Snapcasters. Shave a couple for more cheap spells, IMO. Or to get one of the delve creatures back.

Still Snap synergizes with YP and is a beast on the grindy fiesta. Same as I said above, i tried the other build that shaves a snap, 4 is a must he is so good right now.

Just a theorycrafting list, opinions?

Would appreciate some thoughts on a young pyro build here. Also, I've been trying Claim/Fame and it's definitely not a mainboard card. It's dead as hell in a surprisingly number of matchups. I'm not convinced this card is worth playing, period. Think it could be a pretty good SB card though. Also, I should've known this but Gifts has been terrible. A lot of games you either don't reach 4 mana or the game's over before 4 mana either way

Dismember>Terminate is a concession to YP, but I still hate the card..

Have you been testing it ? Could you go more in depths on your testing ? I'm really curious about this new build with YP! Thanks!

edit: quoting.

If there are lots of spell based decks you cant go too crazy on removal, but if you are playing against creatures every round then there is nothing wrong with overloading on removal. 4 Push, 2 Bolt, 2 Terminate, and possibly a Dismember isn't unreasonable. Going this high would cost you points against Valakut, non-Eldrazi Tron, etc., but it looks very nice in creature battles.

TBH last night I never felt I was short on removal, only aganist D&T , but last night I reallized that I need to learn the interactions that d&t can do. I missplayed a lot ! I played the mirror as well, but the other player didn't had the same experience playing the match and my list has tons of removal and Lilianas to grind.

Random Thoughts:
Is there any Dredge running around? The single Spellbomb is certainly fine to have around because it helps in graveyard-based fair matchups as well, but it is pretty light if you want to battle dedicated graveyard decks. (The Flaying Tendrils do help here, I will admit)
If the exile portion of Tendrils isn't needed, the instant speed of Kozilek's Return is a huge benefit. For the record I think that Tendrils is very playable and sometimes the right choice, but I usually rank Return and Anger above it and only use it in specific situations. Any insight into your choice there?

At my LGS pepople own all the top decks, most of them have 2-3 decks... sometime the night is packed with Burn, sometimes TRON variants, Shadow variants, Dredge, it's a real gamble! Flaying Tendrills is a catch them all, that's medium aganist Afinity, Dredge and WhiteWinnies. I fell if my meta had more Dredge I would put a Grafdigger's Cage and maybe +1 Nihil Spellbomb.

I usually max out on Stubborn Denial first, but I do love me a Countersquall.

I like having a non ferocity negate, just in case.

I have been playing a single Dreabore lately as well, and I think it is quite good. I have had games against Affinity when I just wished it was a Terminate, but it has also killed Nahiris, Gideons, Lilianas, and Ashioks so it pulls its weight.

About Dreadbore, I don't get why people don't play it as much. Since I tried I never wanted to cut it, it's crazy good, specially in the mirror.

Yes, I leave all my discard spells in the deck and board out my Stubborn Denials because we can only have so many reactive cards without hurting the threat density. IoK used to be the card I liked least in the deck, but my various attempts to cut it have resulted in too many game losses. Our deck archetype has so many different roads to victory and I really want to know what my opponent is working with. Unless I get a very explosive hand, my plan is to make sure that the game goes long and requires a lot of micromanagement. I'm a control player at heart and these are the kinds of games that I usually end up winning.

The mirror is a atriction match leaving up counterspell , most of the time is a bad idea. The match is all about who stick a threat, soo dicards are better then counterspell, since we barely go to top deck war. If we do , probably you won't have a threat to make a full use of S. Denial. Just my two cents on the matter boyz. (:
Edit: Depending on your list leaving 1-2 S. Denial is worth, my last list that I played with 2 bolts, I tend to leave up the S. Denials and remove bolts from mirror. Bolt + Snap + Bolt is just a dream, most of the time you will only see a Zombie Fish smashing your face and that bolt dead on your hand...

Quote from whocansay »

I'd say Fatal Push is your best card against D&T, no idea why you'd drop it.

They do a similar job in this match. Push doesn't kill Mirran and Bolt doesn't kill Resto. Angel. TBH I might put the Puh back again and only play with 1 Bolt...

Hey guys, me again! I'm going to play a modern event today with at least 30 players... I was theorycrafting this list, I'm expecting MonoW D&t , Grixis DS, EldraTron and most of the top tier decks.
Just a quick info about the current MB and SB.
Dropped a fatal push ( not sure about it) just to improve my match aganist D&t , I'm sure it's going to be the most played or at least the second most played deck tonight.
TBR is strong game 1 trick, even though I'm not a huge fan of it, it's still works.

SB:
2 C. Reject. - This card is insane but at my LGS meta isn't worth to put 3.
1 S. Denial - Could be 2 if I cut the countersquall.
1 Nihill - Just a little GY hate.
2 C. Brut. - This card is insane, never going to cut it.
2 F. Tendrills - Exile effect + Devoid
1 Lili last Hope - Grindy MVP
1 Lili of The Veil - Just to good.
1 K. Command - For grindy matches and afinity
1 Izzet S. - Lingering Souls and x/1 creatures
1 Dreadbore - Good at the mirror and aganist decks that uses PW ( RW Prision )
1 Terminate - Just a overkill for the mirror, no GURGMAG SHALL PASS !
1 Countersquall - Just to have a unconditional counter ... could be reverted to a 2nd S. Denial


Please guys, I would really enjoy some input on my list

The meta here in the Netherlands can be totaly inbred, so I'm really looking into the mirror. What about Ashiok in the sideboard, seeing as graveyard hate is comming in. Exiling a threat and possibly playing.

I tried Ashiok last week , he is only usefull on the mirror. Try LoTV she is really good at the mirror and other grindys matches.

This is my list i played my last league at MTGO. I really need some tips on how to increase my winrate agganist MonoW d&t! Maybe go back to 19 lands and bolts? This match fells bad man... On the other hand, EldraTron and the Mirror are quite good with this current 75. I would like some input from those who are playing 19 and 17 lands
Just for the record played with 17 lands , 3 comp leagues:
1st League: (4x1)
MonoW D&t 0x2
Grixis DS 2x0
Humans CoCo 2x0
Esper Faries 2x0
BW Eldrazi 2x1
2nd League: (1x4)
Jund 2x1
UW Control 1x2
Human CoCo 0x2
Afinity 1x2
Drop
3rd League:(3x2)
Ad Naseaum (2x1)
EldraTron (2x1)
MonoBlue???(0x2)
MonoW D&t (0x2)
Burn (2x0)

Quote from oPoptartz »

The current list I am testing for reference (EE should be a liliana the last hope):

lwdgg's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Lands 4 Scalding Tarn 4 Polluted Delta 3 Bloodstained Mire 2 Watery Grave 1 Steam Vents 1 Blood Crypt 1 Swamp 1 Island Creatures 4 Death's Shadow 4 Street Wraith 4 Snapcaster Mage 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang 2 Gurmag Angler	Other spells 4 Serum Visions 4 Sleight of Hand 4 Thought Scour 4 Thoughtseize 2 Inquisition of Kozilek 2 Stubborn Denial 4 Fatal Push 1 Terminate 1 Dismember 1 Kolaghan's Command	Sideboard 2 Stubborn Denial 3 Ceremonious Rejecttion 2 Collective Brutality 2 Surgical Extraction 2 Nihil Spellbomb 1 Engineered Explosives 1 Kolaghan's Command 1 Kozilek's Return 1 Temur Battle Rage

Yesterday i playteste Ari Lax mainboard list and thought that the skill celling of the deck rose with 4 Sleight of Hand, i felt that every decision was harder and sometimes I was really flooding on cantrips and got no action. For the note i playtested ,without SBing, aganist Dredge, Afinity and MonoW HateBears. Any tips guys ?

It doesn't really set up your draws, and we're not trying to get delirium online.

I agree, but being a free cantrip we can't ask for much hehe!

+ Reduces effective deck size
+ Decent synergy with Thought Scour
+ Sacrifice triggers Revolt

- Makes it harder to decide when to mulligan
- Worse topdeck than any of our cantrips
- Might grow our opponent's Tarmogoyfs

It's OK I think, but it doesn't have the power level of most of the other cards in the deck. It has more synergy with the Jund version.

I used to play the jund version and understood the real synergy there with traverse, but still is a free cantrip... but i guess Sleight of Hands offer a real card selection...
Most decks that are playing goyffs plays some kind of artifact and we can use our delves to eat it, isn't a real issue tbh.
I agree with being a horrible topdeck...None had tried it just for curiosity ? (:

Just theorycrafting, but if we want to make our deck lighter by putting more cantrips, why not Mishra's Bauble? Ignoring it can't be flashbacked with snapy, is there any other reason?

Vs. the stock Grixis Shadow lists, I think GR Valakut is slightly favored. If you change the Rejections in the SB to Strokes, it flips in the other direction.

On that topic, I don't think losing Rejection hurts the affinity matchup that much because they dump their hand so quickly. The real place it hurts is vs. Lantern and Ironworks combo. Stroke vs. Rejection is interesting vs. Eldrazi Tron because Stroke dodges Chalice, which is really nice, but of course cheaper is often better, and Rejection can counter Chalice, Relic, etc. In addition to what finalnub mentioned, Stroke also helps vs. Amulet and generic big mana decks (GR Ponza, for example).

Back to the Valakut matchup. This is another matchup where Mana Leak really shines. My build feels very favorable vs. them (with Strokes instead of Rejections in the SB, and Leaks instead of K Commands MD).

You play with Mana Leak instead of K. Commands ? You think It's worth ? I was wondering on putting some Mana Leaks, but is hard to cut something from the stock list =/

Quote from Spooly »

I think Rise//Fall is overrated. It's only consistently good in the grindy matchups, and we have access to plenty of cards that are good there. I'd rather have something that has applications vs. fast aggro and/or big mana decks too. Don't fall into the trap of continually going over the top in grindy matchups - it makes you more susceptible to Tron and other big mana decks, fast aggro, and combo decks. The best deck in modern might be grindy, but the format is still something like 60-70% decks that aren't fighting on that axis.

I played against that bant humans deck twice in a league last night, went 1-1 against it (4-1ed overall). It's almost certainly a bad matchup, but if we want to fight it start packing sweepers. Anger is good, but Damnation would be better. Their creatures can get big fast. Not that it's worth trying to fight it anywhere besides maybe on MTGO.

I totally agree with you. I'm just wondering It because on my LGS the field is switching towards Grixs/4c DeathShadow, Dredge and Tron variants. Just thinking what I could do to get ahead and I'm planing on playing a GP in two months from now all knowledge is welcome!

Quote from DannyDoedel »

Quote from LeoTzu »

Quote from lwdgg »

I have seen some people using Rise//Fall and saying it's pretty good in the mirror. Could someone elaborate why ?

The mirror is often just about who can grind better. Bouncing a Tasigur or an Angler can leave it stranded in your opponent's hand and returning a Death's Shadow or a Snapcaster from your own grave effectively turns this into a bouncing spell that cantrips. It doesn't provide card advantage, but it's a solid tempo play. The Fall portion of the card can be useful too, especially if you know they have only nonland cards. Then it's basically Hymn to Torach.

Don't forget that it can actually provide card advantage when you bounce your own Snapcaster and take back a creature form your graveyard (Shadow, Wraith). Also the Hymn mode is card advantage when it trades 1 for 2.

Got it, Rise//Fall should be at MB? It seems like a good card to have on game 1, where most people don't expect it, right?

I have seen some people using Rise//Fall and saying it's pretty good in the mirror. Could someone elaborate why ?