I think its still a perfectly fun deck to play and does decently enough. Just in general proactive is better than reactive in modern. Nice thing it really only has two matchups where i go this is a loss, boggles and bw tokens and you hardly see the latter nowadays. Fatal push has helped this deck in general quite alot. It also helps that we dont really care if our opponent has it. Everything we run that works with it gets killed by every other form of removal in the format anyways. Oh and if you havent picked up any ceremonious rejections yet get some they are absolutely house.
I have many Ceremonious Rejections lol, I definitely added them in because Tron is now a huge part of my current meta and just has been strong. B/W Tokens is an extremely annoying matchup and I completely agree with you on that one. I'm definitely gonna try one mainboard Jace, the Mind Sculptor, mainly because I can and it can either draw the hate from my opponent and/or help me with some synergy.
[quote] In more traditional lists i wouldnt but if your going AV and dont have delvers he seems fine. He may still be too mana intensive but worth the test.
As far as the meta goes I would say rough. Generally Death's Shadow grixis is just better. I prefer more reactionary play so ive stuck with delver but both decks have lots of variation and can easily overlap.
It is a bit sad that those that have played Grixis Delver have managed to switch to Grixis Death's Shadow due to the popularity and general better tournament outcome. I'm gonna play Delver one of these weeks and then try Death's Shadow version.
Wouldn't hurt to try with one mainboard Jace, the Mind Sculptor and see if it makes any difference.
How is Delver is the meta currently? I've had the deck built for just about 2 years and used to run it all the time before I expanded my collection and built other decks. Most of the time, I've seen most people that have piloted the deck covert it into Death's Shadow because all is really needed for the deck is the addition of Death's Shadow and Street Wraith.
What about the addition of Jace, the Mind Sculptor? I have only one and have been thinking about adding him just because he is available, just haven't really been convinced to do so.
I'd have to say that this deck is more like an alternate build of the Grixis Death's Shadow builds and isn't honestly much of Delver. Dark Confidant is just too risky in our deck. Revealing a Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Gurmag Angler in the traditional build would more likely kill us big time. Without them in your build, why have Thought Scour?
I love Logic Knot as a card and it totally slipped my mind that the card would be more effective without as many delve creatures eating away the graveyard. And while I totally advocate Deprive as a one of (maybe 2) in the main board, how does Pyro help with that plan? Deprive asks to bounce a land, not a permanent...
Awesome to hear your success with the full set of Pyro btw deathstroke. How has the burn matchup been working with that though? There's a lot of burn where I'm at and for me I like have huge beater to stonewall their guides and such... plus it doesn't die to searing blaze
I really like running a one of Deprive mainboard in Grixis Delver. People don't expect it at all.
I feel like if we are going the 4 YP route (just like Deathstroke did) we should look at Logic Knot and Deprive as possible counters. With 4 Thought Scour and only 2 Tasigur, running a number of Logic Knots should go without any problems. Deprive on the other hand basically becomes counterspell with a YP out as you can "pay" for it with a token and immediately get a new one of the cast trigger.
Be aware that cutting Delve creatures generally makes the big mana matchups worse because the YP clock can't kill as reliably as a quick Tasigur. I'm definitely going to try it out though, I haven't sleeved up mys YP's in a long time
Familiar's Ruse is an interesting choice as a counter spell in our deck. A bit risky most of the time because of big mana cost delve creatures.
I haven't used Young Pyromancer in quite a while honestly. I took it out for Vendilion Clique as an option. It has been doing good most of the time but I do wanna try new stuff, possibly Bone Picker.
So far, unfortunately, the deck is more fun than good. It's fun because I love hand disruption. Mostly played against control decks today, which discard isn't superb.
Maybe Xaricore has a point. Maybe the more you put discard, the more it becomes a worse Grixis Death's Shadow deck. Will continue testing. One thing is for sure, I want 1-2 Thoughtseize in the 75. It's good against mana decks and combo.
I've been thinking about adding in some hand hate spells like some Inquisition of Kozilek to the mainboard. I do like your idea, I think I will follow in your idea.
Rakdos Charm is great against graveyard decks. Nobody expects that card being played.
About land hate, I agree with Jonny : " Land Destruction spells will give you a few or even only a single extra turn so you should either look at maximum impact cards like Blood Moon/Crumble to Dust or "hate" cards that go along with our overall game plan (cheap interaction + clock). " I'm currently testing Crumble to Dust because I find one extra mana is better than Fulminator Mage + Surgical.
I agree in that Crumble to Dust is better even though it cost one extra mana to cast, but can have better results in the long run. At FNM this Friday, I'm gonna make an effort to play Grixis Delver instead of Infect since Infect didn't really do well with me yesterday.
Ceremonious Rejection is probably the best card we have against Eldrazi (and useful against normal Tron too) in my opinion. Land Destruction spells will give you a few or even only a single extra turn so you should either look at maximum impact cards like Blood Moon/Crumble to Dust or "hate" cards that go along with our overall game plan (cheap interaction + clock). This includes cards like Countersqual, Thoughtseize (both are obviously good against other decks too) and Ceremonious Rejection which is extremely good against Eldrazi Tron because they usually don't run many copies of Cavern.
How is Ceremonious Rejection been doing for you in the sideboard? I can see it being key in some matchups such as Affinity and Tron builds. Is it useful against another decks? I've thought running Rakdos Charm because it is very versatile in key situations. I might trade out the Ravenous Trap for it, Dredge hasn't been too popular as of now. Here is my sideboard as of now.
I used to run 2 Blood Moons in sideboard against Tron a lot of the time and Jund, traded them out for Harsh Mentor and Liliana, the Last Hope. Any ideas for changes in my sideboard?
Any thoughts on Collective Brutality in the current meta? I'm running 2 in the board atm and find myself only bringing it in against Burn/Zoo and Storm so it feels really akward atm.
I 'really' like Collective Brutality right now in the meta. It can punish hands the need certain pieces to get ahead, aka instants or sorceries, or get rid of mana dork that is really needed or a problem. Plus it ca help put stuff we want in the graveyard that we either want there or fuel for delving.
I gave up on 2 YP a while ago and replaced them for 2 Bone Picker, overall I was reasonably impressed (I always felt like I got better value than the Young Pypro's). It certainly slows down removal to sorcery, but being able to kill a dork and cast it turn 2 offered another 3 power flyer which was always helpful.
I've recently switched up to playing a Vendillion Clique but after my recent scrub out at a local PPTQ I might end up changing back to the Bone Pickers!
Young Pyromancer is a good part of the board and I used to run a fair amount of them in my board but it isn't that good as of right now. I have been testing out Vendilion Clique in my deck and I really like it. Another good flyer to get in there. I may test out Young Pyromancer in the future to see if it deserves another shot.
The last few lists I see here run 3-4 YP. I like YP but I always felt horrible if I can't get immediate value off him (I miss you G. Probe). The worse is when I'm holding countermagic and I just cast YP. I have to wait until my opponent casts something so I can counter it. It just feels horrible! Anyone else get that feeling?
Anyone else try the Grixis Death's Shadow and then revert back to Delver? I'm thinking about doing it. DS version just doesn't feel good.
I honestly haven't tried the versions that run Death's Shadow, just seems like it took away from the whole delver theme. Another thing is that having your life total quite low to get things rolling, does really put us in danger for little damage to be done against us to steal a win.
Yeah, Young Pyromancer certainly lost some value when Probe got the axe. I may give it another try though since Claim // Fame's been printed. That card looks sweet for this deck; not as good as I think it'll be in Death's Shadow though. That being said, Claim would have Delver, Snappy & YP as juicy targets in our deck. I'm not sure what to cut from my list to make room at the moment.
Young Pyromancer is is good, I used to run it in the deck for a while but unfortunately just wasn't getting the same value it had for quite a while. I really wanna test out Claim // Fame in the deck to see if it a good tech against decks that use a lot of removal or simply just delving.
Hey all! I've been playing this deck a little bit lately and have been wondering in adding Bone Picker. I've been thinking about in it's place by taking out Grim Lavamancer from my deck in its place. Has anyone else used Bone Picker in the deck? I've quite curios to see this creature in action in the deck.
I have been running Liliana, The Last Hope as a 2-3 of in my 75 for resilience against removal. It can activate delve, remove, and helps against the control match ups because they don't expect it. When you land it, they have a hard time removing it.
I definitely like running Liliana, the Last Hope in our deck. A game winner by her self and can fuel delve for us in later turns. Really good spot removal for 1 toughness problems such as the majority of Infect creatures.
I'm a novice to this deck so I was just kinda spitballing. I mean while dropping either Tas or Angler, you lose all those cards in your yard. A good portion of which are viable SCM targets. With CS and as Marcwizard pointed out, bedlam reveler, those sorceries and instants stay available. Of course angler and Tas make use of cracked fetches which CS does not. Thanks for the info.
I agree, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler can eat up some cards in our graveyard that can be useful but that is one of the reasons why we are a "delver" deck. Don't get me wrong, Cryptic Serpent can be very useful in wanting to keep all the cards we want in our graveyard for potential use later on. Delving cards quickly to get our main threats on the field is quite useful in the end instead of waiting for Cryptic Serpent to be cast for UU. Both do have their up sides and down sides. Needless the say, it is a bit early to say what Cryptic Serpent can do this deck.
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StaffI have many Ceremonious Rejections lol, I definitely added them in because Tron is now a huge part of my current meta and just has been strong. B/W Tokens is an extremely annoying matchup and I completely agree with you on that one. I'm definitely gonna try one mainboard Jace, the Mind Sculptor, mainly because I can and it can either draw the hate from my opponent and/or help me with some synergy.
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StaffIt is a bit sad that those that have played Grixis Delver have managed to switch to Grixis Death's Shadow due to the popularity and general better tournament outcome. I'm gonna play Delver one of these weeks and then try Death's Shadow version.
Wouldn't hurt to try with one mainboard Jace, the Mind Sculptor and see if it makes any difference.
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StaffWhat about the addition of Jace, the Mind Sculptor? I have only one and have been thinking about adding him just because he is available, just haven't really been convinced to do so.
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StaffI'd have to say that this deck is more like an alternate build of the Grixis Death's Shadow builds and isn't honestly much of Delver. Dark Confidant is just too risky in our deck. Revealing a Tasigur, the Golden Fang or Gurmag Angler in the traditional build would more likely kill us big time. Without them in your build, why have Thought Scour?
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StaffI really like running a one of Deprive mainboard in Grixis Delver. People don't expect it at all.
Familiar's Ruse is an interesting choice as a counter spell in our deck. A bit risky most of the time because of big mana cost delve creatures.
I haven't used Young Pyromancer in quite a while honestly. I took it out for Vendilion Clique as an option. It has been doing good most of the time but I do wanna try new stuff, possibly Bone Picker.
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StaffI've been thinking about adding in some hand hate spells like some Inquisition of Kozilek to the mainboard. I do like your idea, I think I will follow in your idea.
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StaffI agree in that Crumble to Dust is better even though it cost one extra mana to cast, but can have better results in the long run. At FNM this Friday, I'm gonna make an effort to play Grixis Delver instead of Infect since Infect didn't really do well with me yesterday.
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StaffI'm definitely becoming more a fan of Ceremonious Rejection against meta decks such as Eldrazi and Affinity. I haven't used Crumble to Dust but it can be super good instead of Blood Moon because they always have access to Oblivion Stone and All is Dust.
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Staff1 Countersquall
2 Dispel
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Harsh Mentor
1 Hurkyl's Recall
1 Izzet Staticaster
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Ravenous Trap
1 Spellskite
1 Terminate
I used to run 2 Blood Moons in sideboard against Tron a lot of the time and Jund, traded them out for Harsh Mentor and Liliana, the Last Hope. Any ideas for changes in my sideboard?
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StaffI 'really' like Collective Brutality right now in the meta. It can punish hands the need certain pieces to get ahead, aka instants or sorceries, or get rid of mana dork that is really needed or a problem. Plus it ca help put stuff we want in the graveyard that we either want there or fuel for delving.
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StaffYoung Pyromancer is a good part of the board and I used to run a fair amount of them in my board but it isn't that good as of right now. I have been testing out Vendilion Clique in my deck and I really like it. Another good flyer to get in there. I may test out Young Pyromancer in the future to see if it deserves another shot.
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StaffI honestly haven't tried the versions that run Death's Shadow, just seems like it took away from the whole delver theme. Another thing is that having your life total quite low to get things rolling, does really put us in danger for little damage to be done against us to steal a win.
Young Pyromancer is is good, I used to run it in the deck for a while but unfortunately just wasn't getting the same value it had for quite a while. I really wanna test out Claim // Fame in the deck to see if it a good tech against decks that use a lot of removal or simply just delving.
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StaffI definitely like running Liliana, the Last Hope in our deck. A game winner by her self and can fuel delve for us in later turns. Really good spot removal for 1 toughness problems such as the majority of Infect creatures.
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StaffI agree, Tasigur, the Golden Fang and Gurmag Angler can eat up some cards in our graveyard that can be useful but that is one of the reasons why we are a "delver" deck. Don't get me wrong, Cryptic Serpent can be very useful in wanting to keep all the cards we want in our graveyard for potential use later on. Delving cards quickly to get our main threats on the field is quite useful in the end instead of waiting for Cryptic Serpent to be cast for UU. Both do have their up sides and down sides. Needless the say, it is a bit early to say what Cryptic Serpent can do this deck.