With concerns to unbanning [REDACTED], this is how I see it.
If [REDACTED] were allowed back into the format, we'd have a URx Combo/Control deck possibly take the forefront of the modern scene once again. Now this isn't a bad thing. However, the diversity of what URx decks are doing will basically be split into two categories:
A) You play URx [REDACTED]
B) You play Grixis Shadow
Grixis Shadow is the only URx deck in the format, where the [REDACTED] doesn't just easily slot into it. But with every other version of URx, you'll always need to ask yourself, "Should I just be running [REDACTED]?"
I think at the end of the day the unbanning of [REDACTED] will lead to an overall benefit to the Modern format, even if it does narrow what URx decks can do.
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So honestly, I am hoping that on Monday they decide to unban Gitaxian Probe. Banning the card was imho completely stupid. They banned it because of the consistency it gave decks like Infect, but at the same time they printed Fatal Push which is an amazing answer to those strategies.
Unbanning Probe brings back Infect as a deck, and while Push will definitely hamper the archetype, Infect's resurgence will also help drive back the big mana decks back.
Honestly, I think the best way to change the Modern format is for them to essentially undo the last thing they did to it. Enough cards have been added to the format, and enough of it has changed since Probe was banned, that I honestly thinks it's a fine card for us to be allowed to have again.
Add to that the fact that imho the reason the banned it in the first place was just stupid...
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The problem with answers for Modern isn't that they don't exist. As @LeoTzu clearly showed in his response, WotC has been willing to give us plenty of removal spells over the past few years. Hell Fatal Push is probably one of the most influential cards on Modern since the format's inception.
However there is an issue that is also pointed out. All of these answers are in black. What sort of interaction does White, Blue, Red, or Green get? Honestly next to nothing. Black is the colour that gets all the answers in Modern, while it seems the other colours get the cards that need to be answered. It's a bit of a colour instability really.
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Well people were saying grixis shadow was seeing heavy play in large paper tournaments so I thought maybe it's a problem or something. On second thought, eldrazi temple is pretty odd in a format where chrome mox and artifact lands are banned.
What Temple does is a bit more narrow than what the Artifact Lands do, and a lot more narrow than Chrome Mox.
Chrome Mox is banned because it is literally insane in a format without Force of Will. It accelerates you too fast, in any deck.
The Artifact lands, much like Temple, help ramp a specific deck, in this instance it would be affinity, where each land essentially acts as an Eye of Ugin for 1 for cards like Frogmite and Myr Enforcer. Keep in mind that when we had Eldrazi Winter, the land that was banned was Eye of Ugin, not Temple, because Eye was just that much better than Temple in the long run.
While I am not saying Temple is exactly a fair card, if we put it on a scale of unfair ramp with the Artifact Lands and Chrome Mox, Mox would be at a 9/10, the artifact lands would probably be at a 7, and Temple would honestly be around a 4. And if you're curious, I'd put the Urza lands at about a 3.5.
Is Temple an unfair land? Yes. Is it too unfair for Modern? Not at all. If it was too unfair, we would still be reliving the days of Eldrazi Winter.
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Does anyone else not worry about Storm? I bet Storm plays Opt in some number, but other decks will get at least as much use. If Storm becomes dominant, there are decks that can thrash it really well. If we have a 'Storm Winter' banning Grapeshot slows it down and increases the number of decks that can beat it. Even if all of the cantrips were unbanned, Storm can be fought, it doesn't even have the POTENTIAL to do the damage of Eldrazi
THe only way we'd have a "Storm Winter" is if we got Brainstorm reprinted, and Ponder, and Preordain were both unbanned. Oh, and we get Dark Ritual and Tendrills.
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Some people in this thread are talking like Opt is going to be an automatic 4-of in Storm and will push up its power level. Both of those points very much remain to be seen. Let the Storm players test after release and prove it out one way or another before drawing conclusions.
But...but....it's so much easier to throw around hysteria and conjecture than to actually wait and see what happens with the meta!
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Anyone else find it amusing how this thread is labelled as a "Temporary" State of the Meta thread, but we're already almost at 100 pages in 2 months later? lol
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This is one of the more interesting comments posted in this thread in quite some time. Good find! I will have to read this article to confirm, but news like this is always great to hear.
Then again, I see a 5 mana 4 damage burn spell and I lose hope
The first thing we're trying to do is print more answers. This is something we have said for a while. We work a year in advance, and you guys won't truly see the results of that statement until Ixalan and beyond, but we were able to get a few of these "answers" into Hour of Devastation, one of them being Abrade. Before Abrade, it was too difficult to interact with artifacts without a dedicated answer. We wanted something that was more main-deckable, and Abrade was born.
I'm done arguing with you. Seriously, it's worse than dealing with children, and I used to volunteer to deal with 5-8 year olds.
Anyway, in other news...
Melissa DeTora in her article on the Mothership today mentioned that we'll be seeing WotC's promise of better removal come to release of Ixalan. Does this mean we're going to be getting more Fatal Push level removal? I think we could more easily argue that they'd give us Abrade level, but Abrade in my opinion is very close to being Modern playable. A bit more of a push in power level and we could get another Modern all-star card.
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What is the complaint here? That there needs to be a correlation between cost and playability? Because I'd prefer if good decks weren't massive expensive. I can barely afford this game as it!
It would seem that sisicat is under the impression that the follow is true:
Expensive cards = Best cards = Best Win/Loss Ratio
When he is proven to be wrong, it upset him.
It doesn't even matter that Wizards doesn't even take the secondary market into account at all, so his argument is moot.
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See, that's what I'm talking about, you are dismissing my argument that Modern is high variance because it doesn't fit your narrative. You just proved it right there with your ignorant comment.
Umm...no. I am literally asking you the point you are trying to prove with the data you have given me. I am not dismissing anything. In fact I am giving you the opportunity to better explain your point so that it is heard and understood.
Now who is putting words is whose mouth?
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Well I flip the handle, because when I present you with facts that you don't want to hear, you dismiss it because it doesn't fit your narrative. I'm presenting you data straight from the coverage page, you choose to ignore my interpretation because it doesn't suit your views or your narrative. Instead you put words in my mouth in such a manner that flags a mod so they interpret my comments as not valid and therefore gets me a ban because you have forum favoritism.
Please tell me what facts you have presented me with. You've presented a hell of a lot of opinion but that's about it.
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If [REDACTED] were allowed back into the format, we'd have a URx Combo/Control deck possibly take the forefront of the modern scene once again. Now this isn't a bad thing. However, the diversity of what URx decks are doing will basically be split into two categories:
A) You play URx [REDACTED]
B) You play Grixis Shadow
Grixis Shadow is the only URx deck in the format, where the [REDACTED] doesn't just easily slot into it. But with every other version of URx, you'll always need to ask yourself, "Should I just be running [REDACTED]?"
I think at the end of the day the unbanning of [REDACTED] will lead to an overall benefit to the Modern format, even if it does narrow what URx decks can do.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Unbanning Probe brings back Infect as a deck, and while Push will definitely hamper the archetype, Infect's resurgence will also help drive back the big mana decks back.
Honestly, I think the best way to change the Modern format is for them to essentially undo the last thing they did to it. Enough cards have been added to the format, and enough of it has changed since Probe was banned, that I honestly thinks it's a fine card for us to be allowed to have again.
Add to that the fact that imho the reason the banned it in the first place was just stupid...
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
However there is an issue that is also pointed out. All of these answers are in black. What sort of interaction does White, Blue, Red, or Green get? Honestly next to nothing. Black is the colour that gets all the answers in Modern, while it seems the other colours get the cards that need to be answered. It's a bit of a colour instability really.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
What Temple does is a bit more narrow than what the Artifact Lands do, and a lot more narrow than Chrome Mox.
Chrome Mox is banned because it is literally insane in a format without Force of Will. It accelerates you too fast, in any deck.
The Artifact lands, much like Temple, help ramp a specific deck, in this instance it would be affinity, where each land essentially acts as an Eye of Ugin for 1 for cards like Frogmite and Myr Enforcer. Keep in mind that when we had Eldrazi Winter, the land that was banned was Eye of Ugin, not Temple, because Eye was just that much better than Temple in the long run.
While I am not saying Temple is exactly a fair card, if we put it on a scale of unfair ramp with the Artifact Lands and Chrome Mox, Mox would be at a 9/10, the artifact lands would probably be at a 7, and Temple would honestly be around a 4. And if you're curious, I'd put the Urza lands at about a 3.5.
Is Temple an unfair land? Yes. Is it too unfair for Modern? Not at all. If it was too unfair, we would still be reliving the days of Eldrazi Winter.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
THe only way we'd have a "Storm Winter" is if we got Brainstorm reprinted, and Ponder, and Preordain were both unbanned. Oh, and we get Dark Ritual and Tendrills.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
But...but....it's so much easier to throw around hysteria and conjecture than to actually wait and see what happens with the meta!
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
To quote it exactly:
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Anyway, in other news...
Melissa DeTora in her article on the Mothership today mentioned that we'll be seeing WotC's promise of better removal come to release of Ixalan. Does this mean we're going to be getting more Fatal Push level removal? I think we could more easily argue that they'd give us Abrade level, but Abrade in my opinion is very close to being Modern playable. A bit more of a push in power level and we could get another Modern all-star card.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
It would seem that sisicat is under the impression that the follow is true:
Expensive cards = Best cards = Best Win/Loss Ratio
When he is proven to be wrong, it upset him.
It doesn't even matter that Wizards doesn't even take the secondary market into account at all, so his argument is moot.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Umm...no. I am literally asking you the point you are trying to prove with the data you have given me. I am not dismissing anything. In fact I am giving you the opportunity to better explain your point so that it is heard and understood.
Now who is putting words is whose mouth?
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros
Please tell me what facts you have presented me with. You've presented a hell of a lot of opinion but that's about it.
Modern Decks:
UBG Lantern Control GBU
BRG Bridge-Vine GRB
Commander Decks
UBG Muldrotha, Value Elemental GBU
BRG Windgrace Real-Estate Ltd. GRB
#PayThePros