Thoughts on Core 20 releases so far? There’s two reasonable considerations for Bruna thus far: Angel of Vitality Bishop of Wings
I know this isn’t specifically a lifegain build, but I actually really like the cleric. It triggers Archangel of Thune, Dawn of Hope, Resplendent Angel (mostly), and keeps our board presence up after wipes. All for WW. I’d prefer a control piece at this part of the curve but this I could take. Especially with the Angel reanimation we have too - I could see easy double figure lifegain in a turn just from this guy.
Gift of Estates is really great early. Weathered Wayfarer picks up your utilities. Endless Atlas has played out really, really well for me. Azor's Gateway - seems risky, but it's great cheap filtering bare minimum. Sword of the Animist - this is an attack trigger, so you don't have to beat face to ramp. Chuck it on a weenie and swing away. Dowsing Dagger - We run fliers, so this is easy to flip.
Otherwise, I run a fair amount of rocks personally, and of course Land Tax. It's weird, knowing that it's a weakness in mono white means you sort of compensate for it, and that has kind of kicked the deck right back the other way to being really quite consistent. It's not like Azusa turbo ramp or anything, but it is pretty rare I miss a land drop or struggle with screw.
Hmmmm. It'd probably be easier to see a decklist, but it sounds like you need to look at ramp/draw options for acceleration. It sounds weird for mono white, but I often end up being the most ramped player at the table. I know ISB has had similar results of late.
Other than that if the concern is creatures not trading well in combat, there's options like Cathars'Crusade or True Conviction. If it's a swarm issue, the one old-ass obscure card ISB brought to my attention, Eye of Singularity is literally an off-switch for those decks. As well as anyone running Sol Ring. It's been a great addition for me. Otherwise, my other recommendation is don't be afraid of trading creatures when you need to. My reanimation is pretty decent, so I'm not overly afraid to take the hit and lose some board presence if it means taking out a key piece of someone's board presence.
As an aside, the obvious play to me when staring down Doran, the Siege Tower with Angel of Condemnation in play is to exert her and revert combat rules to normal. Assuming he's commander this is only temporary, but it still gives you a little breathing space.
I like the addition of Monarch, too. I've thought about running Throne of the High City and some of the other pieces in the past, maybe I should give it another look.
Another option I used to run was Weathered Bodyguards. It's expensive to cast, but if you can keep it protected with Greaves or whatever it's a fort of a card. Plus being a human you can reanimate it to your heart's content here
edit: I kind of like Erratic Portal, in that it keeps Bruna relatively cheap to cast. Most games I'll cast her 3-4 times minimum. That being said, I'm not afraid of leaving her in the graveyard to resurrect with Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Karmic Guide or Emeria Shepherd either, so it's much of a muchness to me. I think ideally you'd want Portal if you're really spamming that cast trigger. I could see it coming into my list if I had a copy, I just haven't had a look at what I'd cut for it.
Really, it just depends what you need, and this definitely sounds like a meta thing. I don't see a ton of dragons in my meta, but honestly, if I did, I'd stock up on board wipes knowing that Bruna bounces back remarkably well from them and they tend not to so much. She can withstand a lot of hostility, so don't be afraid to run more than you might usually. Otherwise, don't be afraid to cut the moats if they don't work. Just because they're generally thought of as good, doesn't mean they cover every situation perfectly.
Eos is just not meant for this deck. As ISB mentioned, Bruna is remarkably robust, so fog effects end up being a little redundant. Frankly when I’m faced with a daunting board state I’d prefer to blow it up, considering it’s much easier for us to rebuild than a lot of other archetypes. I’ve just generally found fog effects help us survive but don’t help us thrive.
Hero did pull some weight for me, but having to tap him down and being conditional removal made him a little less than satisfactory in my build. At the same spot in the curve I’ve found Thalia, Heretic Cathar far more helpful. We already ramp pretty heavy early, so having her slow the table down further for us to land some threats is far more helpful. As mentioned, too, Bruna trades well anyway, so the hero is a little redundant, unless you’re clearing the air for a voltron strike.
Paladin I’ve found more helpful than you guys obviously. Early game he helps our lower end of the curve deal a bit more efficiently with any necessary combat, and Bruna isn’t the only creature he can help get in for serious damage. Bonding with Lyra Dawnbringer, Emeria Shepherd or any of our flying threats has helped make me fairly formidable in combat. If nothing else he’s also worked well as a rattlesnake for me in deterring people from sending their critters my way.
Bastion Protector I definitely get. It’s very conditional and the conditions are quite obvious. I think Bruna is the reason she stays, purely on account of how easily she can be reanimated. Otherwise, she’s not something you just casually drop into play - she lurks in your hand till the time is right, and there’s a chance that doesn’t happen.
My thoughts on the moats is that they’re a meta call - I’d definitely rather have the tool there than not, it just depends what threat you’re facing down as to whether you drop them into play or not. The same applies to Magus of the Tabernacle in my build - there’s going to be times it’s not the right play to drop him. Obviously if you’re facing down some swarm he’s a huge middle finger, otherwise just hold him, or filter him through Azor’s Gateway. I sort of treat the humans in my build as a toolbox. I try to find what’s right for the situation and use my reanimation to help it stay in play. I’d love to expand that toolbox more, but there really hasn’t been much come up in white humans to add in recent releases.
Hey ISB, just wondering, have you ever tested Well of Lost Dreams in the deck? Seems with the life gain that's here it could do some good work. I've been tossing it up for my build, but you definitely have a higher level of life gain than I do.
I haven't. Most of which being that it only does something when I have lifegain going. I have a copy of it in my Gisela build but I have a dedicated lifegain commander there. Part of why I did pull the trigger on testing Dawn of Hope was because it could also function off of just mana and time to draw me cards if needed. I like Well a lot more when my commander somehow adds to the plan or lifegain is a little more core. I only counted something like 8-9 cards in my deck that gain me life so I felt like I could still kind of function on time and mana to draw cards with Dawn where it seems a lot more swingy with the Well on if it does something or not.
Man I keep hoping we get some more sweet angel / humans. I feel like I keep kicking around 2-4 slots on that front where I want more numbers so I can find them reliably but I don't like the ones we have access to.
I figured this would be why. Personally I think there's enough lifegain density in your build to make it work, but I guess in case of board wipe it literally does nothing at all. My situation is more tenuous with it too, having less density of lifelink/life gain. I still think it could be worth playtesting, but I guess worst case scenario it could just sit there taking up space.
Agreed re new releases. I think there's probably not likely to be a huge density of additions in War of the Spark. It's clearly dedicated to walkers, both landing them and dealing with them, so the most I'm hoping for there is some good tech for dealing with them in a variety of colours. There's still a chance though - Boros has some angel flavour, and so does Orzhov to a degree, but given that all guilds have been represented thus far in the block it really isn't clear how things will look here. You never know, we could get some sweet releases. I'm especially keen for more low curve humans with control factors. I'm picking up Serra Ascendant soon, but it'd still be nice to see more obvious inclusions lower in the curve.
Hey ISB, just wondering, have you ever tested Well of Lost Dreams in the deck? Seems with the life gain that's here it could do some good work. I've been tossing it up for my build, but you definitely have a higher level of life gain than I do.
Yeah, I don't think she's an automatic add. It's nice to see Serra finally, though. All of her abilities are relevant, though not incredibly strong. It's probably another walker where you race for the ultimate, which gets a little tiresome - my preference is for a walker that has a reasonable amount more value in the first 2 abilities. There's some there, but neither of the first abilities excel at what they do; there's easier ways to buff your angels (Lyra) and easier ways to pump out angel tokens (Luminarch Ascension/Entreat the Angels/Divine Visitation).
Still, I'll be interested to hear how she performs.
Yes, I like that Dawn of Hope doesn't require anything else to do what it does. It's mana intensive, but that's mono white.
I'm not super sold on going deep on lifelink. It's doable, it just doesn't fit perfectly with what my build currently does, and there doesn't seem much of a point outside of Well of Lost Dreams, Dawn of Hope and Aetherflux Reservoir - a card I (perhaps irrationally) hate. I could see maybe adding one or two of the Soul Sisters to my build even out the curve, but maybe not much else. I might have to give Dawn of Hope a go, though.
I've had similar results with Emeria Shepherd recently. It's just so devastatingly good being able to get back any nonland permanent to hand or battlefield. Steep CMC, but the interactions it offers are so good - I had fun last game Sword of the Animist and rez'ing Magus of the Moat, Aura of Silence and True Conviction repeatedly. It really just made my gamestate sort of indomitable and impossible to keep down.
Sounds like Dawn of Hope has been decent tech for you. I don't have quite the same life gain opportunities in my deck, so I've been hesitant to add it. How good is it in a vacuum?
Random side note, I have managed to see Twilight Shepherd several times now and..... it is really really awful. I just never really want to draw or play it. I was hoping that I would kind of like it for wrath insurance but so far... it has kind of sucked. I am going to keep jamming it for now but I have not liked it so far. There just are not that many big angels that I have wanted thus far.
I feel the same way about Shepherd. It's suboptimal and I find myself not ever wanting to cast it. I think it's problem is that, given it doesn't have flash, you can't cast it into a sweeper. Which means in order to get its effect you need to sac a whole ton or swing into an unfavourable situation. I can't see anyone allowing that with it already on the field, which makes its persist a little redundant. Not only that, the 3WWW is a bit rough.
I'm on the hunt for an alternative for it myself. Eventually (budget allowing), I will switch it out. I'd like to add Lyra Dawnbringer, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Recruiter of the Guard, so either of these could be an easy replacement.
Baird, Steward of Argive - forcing a tax to attack is actually very similar to the goal of Magus of the Tabernacle in that the goal is to limit how many tokens attack me at once and or the ability to have a swarm of guys and pump them. There are some advantages and disadvantages of this card. For instance, if someone were to use something like Craterhoof Behemoth it would be a disadvantage in that they would have higher numbers and still would not need to attack me with all of them to gain a better benefit. On the other side though, I still kind of want opponents to be getting murdered by opposing tokens. I guess there is some level of question of how it varies from Archangel of Tithes which I currently do not run but I think its possible that both could be worth some level of consideration.
I'll definitely be looking to pick this up for my build.
Lyra Dawnbriger - Really..... it seems like an improvement over Baneslayer Angel (whom I have questionably added). I am willing to give it a shot but I guess it will depend on its price tag. It seems like a nice one to rez a buff for my commander that also gives me a stat + lifelink boost.
I'm less convinced that there's a place for this, but lifelink keeps you...well, alive. To my mind you either add this or Blackblade Reforged, depending on whether your game plan is to alpha strike, or swing for commander damage. There's no reason not to have an option to do either considering the enormity of Brisela, but personally I'm only really interested in allowing so many slots for creature pumps.
That's definite food for thought. I see your point - the chances are you'll never have a full grip of cards none of which you want to toss. I guess it's a kneejerk reaction to be concerned about not having the ability to get the cards back that you've thrown, and I'm not really interested in running Mirror of Fate or Pull from Eternity.
The tradeoff is very early draw in a better context than Mind Stone, being as it's repeatable. Mono white can't afford to turn down that sort of advantage, and considering I don't have access to some of the stronger, more epxensive effects that ramp or draw like Mind's Eye or Land Tac, I guess I shouldn't turn it down out of hand. The eventuall payoff could be well worth it, too. It remains to be seen how easily it'll transform, but that's a cherry on top I guess.
All this being said, I still think I'll wait to hear reports on how well it fares - I don't expect it to be barnstormingly amazing, but I won't completely dismiss the idea of adding it.
Angel of Vitality
Bishop of Wings
I know this isn’t specifically a lifegain build, but I actually really like the cleric. It triggers Archangel of Thune, Dawn of Hope, Resplendent Angel (mostly), and keeps our board presence up after wipes. All for WW. I’d prefer a control piece at this part of the curve but this I could take. Especially with the Angel reanimation we have too - I could see easy double figure lifegain in a turn just from this guy.
Gift of Estates is really great early.
Weathered Wayfarer picks up your utilities.
Endless Atlas has played out really, really well for me.
Azor's Gateway - seems risky, but it's great cheap filtering bare minimum.
Sword of the Animist - this is an attack trigger, so you don't have to beat face to ramp. Chuck it on a weenie and swing away.
Dowsing Dagger - We run fliers, so this is easy to flip.
Otherwise, I run a fair amount of rocks personally, and of course Land Tax. It's weird, knowing that it's a weakness in mono white means you sort of compensate for it, and that has kind of kicked the deck right back the other way to being really quite consistent. It's not like Azusa turbo ramp or anything, but it is pretty rare I miss a land drop or struggle with screw.
Other than that if the concern is creatures not trading well in combat, there's options like Cathars'Crusade or True Conviction. If it's a swarm issue, the one old-ass obscure card ISB brought to my attention, Eye of Singularity is literally an off-switch for those decks. As well as anyone running Sol Ring. It's been a great addition for me. Otherwise, my other recommendation is don't be afraid of trading creatures when you need to. My reanimation is pretty decent, so I'm not overly afraid to take the hit and lose some board presence if it means taking out a key piece of someone's board presence.
As an aside, the obvious play to me when staring down Doran, the Siege Tower with Angel of Condemnation in play is to exert her and revert combat rules to normal. Assuming he's commander this is only temporary, but it still gives you a little breathing space.
I like the addition of Monarch, too. I've thought about running Throne of the High City and some of the other pieces in the past, maybe I should give it another look.
edit: I kind of like Erratic Portal, in that it keeps Bruna relatively cheap to cast. Most games I'll cast her 3-4 times minimum. That being said, I'm not afraid of leaving her in the graveyard to resurrect with Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Karmic Guide or Emeria Shepherd either, so it's much of a muchness to me. I think ideally you'd want Portal if you're really spamming that cast trigger. I could see it coming into my list if I had a copy, I just haven't had a look at what I'd cut for it.
Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker
Masako the Humorless
Selfless Squire
Hixus, Prison Warden
Sanctum Prelate
Magus of the Disk
Magus of the Balance
Mageta the Lion
Really, it just depends what you need, and this definitely sounds like a meta thing. I don't see a ton of dragons in my meta, but honestly, if I did, I'd stock up on board wipes knowing that Bruna bounces back remarkably well from them and they tend not to so much. She can withstand a lot of hostility, so don't be afraid to run more than you might usually. Otherwise, don't be afraid to cut the moats if they don't work. Just because they're generally thought of as good, doesn't mean they cover every situation perfectly.
Eos is just not meant for this deck. As ISB mentioned, Bruna is remarkably robust, so fog effects end up being a little redundant. Frankly when I’m faced with a daunting board state I’d prefer to blow it up, considering it’s much easier for us to rebuild than a lot of other archetypes. I’ve just generally found fog effects help us survive but don’t help us thrive.
Hero did pull some weight for me, but having to tap him down and being conditional removal made him a little less than satisfactory in my build. At the same spot in the curve I’ve found Thalia, Heretic Cathar far more helpful. We already ramp pretty heavy early, so having her slow the table down further for us to land some threats is far more helpful. As mentioned, too, Bruna trades well anyway, so the hero is a little redundant, unless you’re clearing the air for a voltron strike.
Paladin I’ve found more helpful than you guys obviously. Early game he helps our lower end of the curve deal a bit more efficiently with any necessary combat, and Bruna isn’t the only creature he can help get in for serious damage. Bonding with Lyra Dawnbringer, Emeria Shepherd or any of our flying threats has helped make me fairly formidable in combat. If nothing else he’s also worked well as a rattlesnake for me in deterring people from sending their critters my way.
Bastion Protector I definitely get. It’s very conditional and the conditions are quite obvious. I think Bruna is the reason she stays, purely on account of how easily she can be reanimated. Otherwise, she’s not something you just casually drop into play - she lurks in your hand till the time is right, and there’s a chance that doesn’t happen.
My thoughts on the moats is that they’re a meta call - I’d definitely rather have the tool there than not, it just depends what threat you’re facing down as to whether you drop them into play or not. The same applies to Magus of the Tabernacle in my build - there’s going to be times it’s not the right play to drop him. Obviously if you’re facing down some swarm he’s a huge middle finger, otherwise just hold him, or filter him through Azor’s Gateway. I sort of treat the humans in my build as a toolbox. I try to find what’s right for the situation and use my reanimation to help it stay in play. I’d love to expand that toolbox more, but there really hasn’t been much come up in white humans to add in recent releases.
I figured this would be why. Personally I think there's enough lifegain density in your build to make it work, but I guess in case of board wipe it literally does nothing at all. My situation is more tenuous with it too, having less density of lifelink/life gain. I still think it could be worth playtesting, but I guess worst case scenario it could just sit there taking up space.
Agreed re new releases. I think there's probably not likely to be a huge density of additions in War of the Spark. It's clearly dedicated to walkers, both landing them and dealing with them, so the most I'm hoping for there is some good tech for dealing with them in a variety of colours. There's still a chance though - Boros has some angel flavour, and so does Orzhov to a degree, but given that all guilds have been represented thus far in the block it really isn't clear how things will look here. You never know, we could get some sweet releases. I'm especially keen for more low curve humans with control factors. I'm picking up Serra Ascendant soon, but it'd still be nice to see more obvious inclusions lower in the curve.
Still, I'll be interested to hear how she performs.
I'm not super sold on going deep on lifelink. It's doable, it just doesn't fit perfectly with what my build currently does, and there doesn't seem much of a point outside of Well of Lost Dreams, Dawn of Hope and Aetherflux Reservoir - a card I (perhaps irrationally) hate. I could see maybe adding one or two of the Soul Sisters to my build even out the curve, but maybe not much else. I might have to give Dawn of Hope a go, though.
Sounds like Dawn of Hope has been decent tech for you. I don't have quite the same life gain opportunities in my deck, so I've been hesitant to add it. How good is it in a vacuum?
I feel the same way about Shepherd. It's suboptimal and I find myself not ever wanting to cast it. I think it's problem is that, given it doesn't have flash, you can't cast it into a sweeper. Which means in order to get its effect you need to sac a whole ton or swing into an unfavourable situation. I can't see anyone allowing that with it already on the field, which makes its persist a little redundant. Not only that, the 3WWW is a bit rough.
I'm on the hunt for an alternative for it myself. Eventually (budget allowing), I will switch it out. I'd like to add Lyra Dawnbringer, Avacyn, Angel of Hope, Recruiter of the Guard, so either of these could be an easy replacement.
I'll definitely be looking to pick this up for my build.
I'm less convinced that there's a place for this, but lifelink keeps you...well, alive. To my mind you either add this or Blackblade Reforged, depending on whether your game plan is to alpha strike, or swing for commander damage. There's no reason not to have an option to do either considering the enormity of Brisela, but personally I'm only really interested in allowing so many slots for creature pumps.
The tradeoff is very early draw in a better context than Mind Stone, being as it's repeatable. Mono white can't afford to turn down that sort of advantage, and considering I don't have access to some of the stronger, more epxensive effects that ramp or draw like Mind's Eye or Land Tac, I guess I shouldn't turn it down out of hand. The eventuall payoff could be well worth it, too. It remains to be seen how easily it'll transform, but that's a cherry on top I guess.
All this being said, I still think I'll wait to hear reports on how well it fares - I don't expect it to be barnstormingly amazing, but I won't completely dismiss the idea of adding it.