I just found the other bouncers are too slow. Honestly you're better off maybe playing an Eladamri's Call to up your Temur Sabertooth chances.
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.[/quote]
Thanks for the updates! Good stuff. I was gold fishing the deck last night and can't wait to play it in a real game. I do plan on running Eladamri's Call as a way to fetch Temur Sabertooth or the other pieces I need in that moment. Tutoring never really seems like a bad thing.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I will take out the one shot effects for now like Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Silence is bit harder to cut but, we will see how relevant it feels. After getting a foil, I'm very eager to try out Selvala, Heart of the Wilds but, she was another card I was looking at as kind of a flex spot. What do you think?
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
I would keep the Silence as a staple, I've used it on opponents combo turns to shut them down as well, so it proactive as well as defensive.
Selvala, Heart of the Wilds has been excellent in games where you don't have a mana doubler. She will allow you to play Zacama without the mana doublers, but still potentially combo off.
I really wanted to get even small value from Regal Force, but if you use Eldritch Evolution or Natural Order to get it, you've already sacrificed a creature, so your value is not good enough, with current low creature counts.
That's a great point about Silence. I forgot about that use for it.
I agree with cutting Regal Force as the creature count just seems too low to make it worth it. What would be really great is if we a greater good effect on a creature but, I know that is just dreaming.
If I'm going the infinite land untaps combo direction, do you think Temur Sabertooth is enough or should I include any additional ways of getting Zacama back into my hand? I plan to keep all the sac and draw effects but, those aren't in line with the infinite plan.
Thanks for the feedback. I think I will take out the one shot effects for now like Red Elemental Blast and Pyroblast. Silence is bit harder to cut but, we will see how relevant it feels. After getting a foil, I'm very eager to try out Selvala, Heart of the Wilds but, she was another card I was looking at as kind of a flex spot. What do you think?
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
I agree that it would be bad to play both Celestial Dawn and Vernal Bloom. If Celestial proved worthy of a spot it would likely be over Vernal Bloom which again could be a mistake. Celestial however does make Keeper of Progenitus better though as now all your lands are plains.
What I would love to hear is more about what the combo turn looks like because right now it seems to be very reliant on the of the 3 cards you mentioned Greater Good, Life's Legacy or Momentous Fall. If we don't draw one of the 3, is it still possible to create enough mana to win?
If Omen turn's out well then Celestial Dawn could be interested as well. That even allows us to cheat in tap lands, then destroy it with Zacama and profit. Naming white for caged sun and just pray no one cast Iona lol.
In your current iteration, how do you get Zacama into the command zone to cast him multiple times on the combo turn? I see there are a few draw effects that require him to be sacrificed but, I'm guessing it is not that common to be able to chain those effects over and over. Shooting himself seems bad.
I might not run Oath in my list for the reason's you mentioned and because I'm afraid of my opponents abusing it before I can, then destroying it. I am thinking of running a few more toolbox creatures along with Green Sun's Zenith and Chord of Calling.
With that being said for High Market could Prismatic Omen warrant an inclusion? That would make all of our other nonbasic type lands better as well.
It seems like the game plan you forecast is much less reliant on the one turn combo and more on grinding value from Zacama's activated abilities. Do you still aim for the combo or no?
With a play group like that I can see how Burgeoning would be an all star.
Not to surprised about the Karoo lands as the draw back is just that big. The only way I can see them being OK is with Blood SunBlood Moon or maybe Amulet of Vigor.
High Market seems like a card that we want to give us a way to sac Zacama with so few in the deck. Maybe I'm wrong but, I imagine our combo turn, we want to cast Zacama a few times netting us a bunch of mana, cast some draw card effects, cast more doublers, cast zacama more and just win?
I love that path to victory! Major style points for sure.
I'm honestly surprised that there are not more/better ways to continually return creatures to your hand. I figured there would be at least a land that allows us to do that but, Karakas has to be banned...
The great part about a number of these cards is that even if we do get hit with a jester's cap effect, the opponent will likely not even know what they are looking to remove.
I have some folks I play with that pack graveyard hate and one who runs blightsteel colossus in every deck. I wouldn't want to add more cards that could be dead draws but, I think having more then 1 instant win con makes me more comfortable.
If you were going to add another what would it be?
Also, with adding the sweepers, Academy Rector seems like it could find its way back into the deck. What do you think?
I appreciate all the work on this deck. This is exactly what I was envisioning when thinking about how to run Zacama!
With the changes you suggested yesterday it might be worth running amulet of vigor which also helps our ramp spells. Also, Crucible of worlds and Ramunap Excavator would fit nicely. Though I get the plan is to have less permanents committed to the board.
To me the Karoo lands are a bit to much risk with not enough reward as the require returning an untapped land of a specific type to your hand and then enter the battle tapped themselves.
The Ravnica lands seem good as they allow you to return any land and it can be tapped.
I am curious how having just 1 wincon in the deck has worked out? It seems like we could add in 1 or 2 more for additional consistence.
I've added a section the the primer, "Meta Changes", which hopefully gives a guide to possible changes. Shows a few of the "flexible" slots.[/quote]
Thanks for the updates! Good stuff. I was gold fishing the deck last night and can't wait to play it in a real game. I do plan on running Eladamri's Call as a way to fetch Temur Sabertooth or the other pieces I need in that moment. Tutoring never really seems like a bad thing.
That's a great point about Silence. I forgot about that use for it.
I agree with cutting Regal Force as the creature count just seems too low to make it worth it. What would be really great is if we a greater good effect on a creature but, I know that is just dreaming.
If I'm going the infinite land untaps combo direction, do you think Temur Sabertooth is enough or should I include any additional ways of getting Zacama back into my hand? I plan to keep all the sac and draw effects but, those aren't in line with the infinite plan.
As far as City of Solitude goes, I agree that it is a bit harder to tutor for but, that was one of the reason I like it. It is tutorable with things like enlightened tutor, sterling grove or Academy Rector to protect us on a combo turn. I'll let you know how it works out.
Also, for an additional protection effect is City of Solitude worth the inclusion?
What I would love to hear is more about what the combo turn looks like because right now it seems to be very reliant on the of the 3 cards you mentioned Greater Good, Life's Legacy or Momentous Fall. If we don't draw one of the 3, is it still possible to create enough mana to win?
In your current iteration, how do you get Zacama into the command zone to cast him multiple times on the combo turn? I see there are a few draw effects that require him to be sacrificed but, I'm guessing it is not that common to be able to chain those effects over and over. Shooting himself seems bad.
With that being said for High Market could Prismatic Omen warrant an inclusion? That would make all of our other nonbasic type lands better as well.
It seems like the game plan you forecast is much less reliant on the one turn combo and more on grinding value from Zacama's activated abilities. Do you still aim for the combo or no?
Not to surprised about the Karoo lands as the draw back is just that big. The only way I can see them being OK is with Blood Sun Blood Moon or maybe Amulet of Vigor.
I'm curious why you decided to remove replenish?
High Market seems like a card that we want to give us a way to sac Zacama with so few in the deck. Maybe I'm wrong but, I imagine our combo turn, we want to cast Zacama a few times netting us a bunch of mana, cast some draw card effects, cast more doublers, cast zacama more and just win?
I'm honestly surprised that there are not more/better ways to continually return creatures to your hand. I figured there would be at least a land that allows us to do that but, Karakas has to be banned...
I think my version will include the lands you mentioned, Vance's Blasting Cannons (which seems amazing with Enlightened Tutor effects anyway) and Temur Sabertooth.
The great part about a number of these cards is that even if we do get hit with a jester's cap effect, the opponent will likely not even know what they are looking to remove.
Curious, what does your 99 look like now?
If you were going to add another what would it be?
Also, with adding the sweepers, Academy Rector seems like it could find its way back into the deck. What do you think?
With the changes you suggested yesterday it might be worth running amulet of vigor which also helps our ramp spells. Also, Crucible of worlds and Ramunap Excavator would fit nicely. Though I get the plan is to have less permanents committed to the board.
To me the Karoo lands are a bit to much risk with not enough reward as the require returning an untapped land of a specific type to your hand and then enter the battle tapped themselves.
The Ravnica lands seem good as they allow you to return any land and it can be tapped.
I am curious how having just 1 wincon in the deck has worked out? It seems like we could add in 1 or 2 more for additional consistence.
Thanks again for your work on this deck!