I am very saddened to read the news on MTGSalvation. I have strong empathy for the site as it helped to get where I am today. Thanks, everyone for reading my primers and I hope we can continue our journey together on my website and discord server, where I still continue to post content frequently!
the problem is that he needs to survive one turn before you get to use him and also this makes him a terrible topdeck, unfortunately. kinda rough I feel.
Hm, might be true, but Discovery is also costed as 1 as opposed to
Not sure how that effects the mana requirements, but yeah, you might be right that 13 and 20 is enough. However, as we do run decay anyway, we want the 14 and 21 requirement for green anyway, I guess you can skimp on the white a bit.
As it is a double mana source, you can treat it like Abrupt Decay. That means in order to cast it consistantly you need to have 14 white and 14 green sources (while in addition have at least 21 lands in your deck that can produce either green or white). So wheel is definitely supportable in abzan.
The new article says 13 and 20 because of vancouver mulligan rule.
Nope it says the numbers I explained, you can see the explanation in the "how to deal with golden cards" section. Here is an example for Emmara:
"Emmara, Soul of the Accord. From the tables, we know that a 1G card needs 13 sources of green, a 1W card needs 13 sources of white, and a CC card needs 20 sources of that color. Hence, for Emmara I would recommend 14 sources of green, 14 sources of white, and 21 different sources that can produce green and/or white."
As it is a double mana source, you can treat it like Abrupt Decay. That means in order to cast it consistantly you need to have 14 white and 14 green sources (while in addition have at least 21 lands in your deck that can produce either green or white). So wheel is definitely supportable in abzan.
I think Sol has a very unique playstyle which fits his list. I think if you are not Sol, you won't just have the same results for what he does against a certain matchup, for which reason I think it is best to take the list, and make adaptions to your own playstyle.
@Hype_rion Looks good to me, you cover all bases for needed mana sources. You just put more emphasis on the creature land as opposed to the LD land. This is very fine, and I like it.
I am excited to announce that I was given the opportunity to write as guest author at MTGRock.com going onward! I am deeply humbled by that offer. As my first article I have a reworked and polished version of my article of "how to build consistant manabases for GBx decks" from reddit to share with you guys. I hope it can be of some help for you!
Sol's an amazing player, because I really can't follow that deck list. It looks like such a mess and I don't see a lot of rhyme or reason for his choices. He's definitely amazing, because it like...it's a mess.
Glad to see Reid on it. It sounds like Reid did very so so with Rock, I think he was X-3, but he also had 3 byes. Without those byes that's a solid record though.
The exact same thing basically is true for Selfeisek and his Mardu Pyro build. He created it, he plays it differently, and pretty much nobody does the same^^
On another take, I think about this time it is apropriate enough to let Rock have its own show. In this thread versions are discussed all over the place, Rock, Abzan or Abzan Traverse. I am currently writing on a standalone primer for Rock and I hope it will be available soon. Rock deserves it as much as Abzan or Jund at this point.
I know I have seen these lists as well. I understand building that same manabase for that reason. And it might not matter for one FNM or two. But if you keep that manabases the inconsistancy will eventually catch you. Yeah I am more on the consistant side. Its up to you to decide of course.
I mean you can personally say okay I am fine with 17 black only and play 2 treetop. Or you can play 25 lands or you can maybe only play 1 forest but this seems very sketchy. Just wanted to raise awareness of this, as very many lists you find online right now are actually qutie greedy.
@Piney Your manabase is too inconsistant unfortunately. You cant run more than 1-2 Treetop in Rock, and here is why:
You need 18 black sources for Liliana. Field of Ruin as a card doesnt count as source for anycard with CMC 1-3 for obvious reasons. So in your list you only have 15 black sources, which is 3 too few. This is extremely relevant. I would suggest the following changes:
-1 FoR (you cannot run 4 FoR in a 24 landbase only, it would be the 25th for consistancy reasons)
-2 Treetop
+2 Quagmire
+1 Swamp
I know this is a lot of pure statements, but explainaing all that is rather much. I am going to link you my article on reddit though which I wrote just recently which exactly tackles this topic:
https://www.mtgsalvation.com/articles/49777-the-end-of-an-era
Cheers,
FlyingDelver
If I may link you to my article on this very topic, there you can read the details on why Tracker is not better than Bob:
https://mtgrock.com/category/play-patterns/play-patterns-the-tireless-tracker-misconception/
https://mtgrock.com/2019/01/14/play-patterns-advanced-sideboarding/
Not sure how that effects the mana requirements, but yeah, you might be right that 13 and 20 is enough. However, as we do run decay anyway, we want the 14 and 21 requirement for green anyway, I guess you can skimp on the white a bit.
Nope it says the numbers I explained, you can see the explanation in the "how to deal with golden cards" section. Here is an example for Emmara:
"Emmara, Soul of the Accord. From the tables, we know that a 1G card needs 13 sources of green, a 1W card needs 13 sources of white, and a CC card needs 20 sources of that color. Hence, for Emmara I would recommend 14 sources of green, 14 sources of white, and 21 different sources that can produce green and/or white."
For reference check out my article about manabases: https://mtgrock.com/category/play-patterns/play-patterns-building-a-consistent-manabase/
Or Franks article as the original source: https://www.channelfireball.com/articles/how-many-colored-mana-sources-do-you-need-to-consistently-cast-your-spells-a-guilds-of-ravnica-update/
I hope you will enjoy it! This thread here will be continue being the Abzan primer.
Play Patterns: Building A Consistant Manabase for GBx decks.
Cheers,
FlyingDelver
The exact same thing basically is true for Selfeisek and his Mardu Pyro build. He created it, he plays it differently, and pretty much nobody does the same^^
On another take, I think about this time it is apropriate enough to let Rock have its own show. In this thread versions are discussed all over the place, Rock, Abzan or Abzan Traverse. I am currently writing on a standalone primer for Rock and I hope it will be available soon. Rock deserves it as much as Abzan or Jund at this point.
I mean you can personally say okay I am fine with 17 black only and play 2 treetop. Or you can play 25 lands or you can maybe only play 1 forest but this seems very sketchy. Just wanted to raise awareness of this, as very many lists you find online right now are actually qutie greedy.
You need 18 black sources for Liliana. Field of Ruin as a card doesnt count as source for anycard with CMC 1-3 for obvious reasons. So in your list you only have 15 black sources, which is 3 too few. This is extremely relevant. I would suggest the following changes:
-1 FoR (you cannot run 4 FoR in a 24 landbase only, it would be the 25th for consistancy reasons)
-2 Treetop
+2 Quagmire
+1 Swamp
I know this is a lot of pure statements, but explainaing all that is rather much. I am going to link you my article on reddit though which I wrote just recently which exactly tackles this topic:
https://www.reddit.com/r/ModernMagic/comments/9rw5ex/building_consistant_manabases_for_gbx_decks_a/
This should show you that the Rock manabase is actually very tight when colourless lands are involved.