@dan: You're faltering was the problem. From your perspective Rodemy had to be scum. You shouldn't have shown any mercy. Take commas and periods and say that it only what scum would've done. Anything you can think of.
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Rodemy, look, you need to step back and consider the whole picture. There are two possible scenarios here:
1) Scum Vezok realises he's in trouble because no-one is interested in his trash-tier Eco case and he's sliding inexoriably into being the Day's default lynch. He therefore attempts to salvage something for his team by claiming Jailer: he reveals the jailer for the NK and maybe with a big slice of luck gets the jailer lynched instead of himself. It's not much, but better than just getting lynched for nothing. Eco, the Jailer, sees the claim and considers it a very fair trade to potentially eat the NK in exchange for guaranteeing scum D1. He waits to counter claim to see what reactions are: yes, the initial reaction is people sayin "ok" and unvoting, but with under 48 hours from claim to the deadline people should be scrambling for new wagons, giving us voting records and forcing lurkers to take a stand. Vezok's scum buddy in particular has to content with the cognitive dissonance of knowing Vezok is lying without it being public knowledge. Whereas if Eco counterclaimed immediately, everyone is free to stop playing the game and say "cool got one" and just lynch Vezok.
2) Town Jailer Vezok has played scummily and - seeing himself up for lynch - claims. Scum Eco for some reason decides to throw away all of the town points he has accumulated so far and sacrfice himself to push the lynch through. He doesn't decide to just push another wagon (like this convenient Shadow wagon, or maybe a soft lurker like Vur or Dan) but instead throws his life away to lynch Vezok. Maybe he's panicing (out of character) and trying to save his scum buddy Shadow, but in that case why sacrifice Eco's strong position instead of just having Shadow claim Jailer? Or just...start a different wagon?
It's just so clear that I have incredibly little to gain by throwing my position as highly town read just for the sake of lynching a Jailer (which is not hugely impactful, especially if both scum are still alive), compared to how scum Vezok has something to gain by drawing out the counterclaim before he dies. Once you factor actual behvaioural analysis into it, I don't understand how you can possibly think I'd be the scum in this situation.
Why are you trying to over-explain? Rodemy understood this. You're trying to push a lynch on me, because everybody is lurking and we won't be able to make another wagon.
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Tom has asked me different questions since the beginning in the chat. I usually treat my neighbours as town and decide if they are scum later. If tom was scum I feel that he could have stopped the questioning and I would have probably been none the wiser, The tone of his posts in the neighbourhood also seems more townie than I've ever seen tom.
I'm town reading dan for his response to your question mostly and for his response to my question. I've explained that in earlier posts, but nice try.
Because shadow seems to me to be more calculating as scum than as town. I don't doubt that shadow would follow tom even as scum, but I highly doubt that it would do it so quickly.
I don't really get why scum Tom would stop questioning you, or why it would be a sensible idea to default assume the neighbour you chose is town by default. You didn't explain your Dan read in your reads post and I wanted a full consolidated explanation of it, but nice try. Why do you doubt Shadow would follow Tom that quickly - since it disagrees with Tom's assessment in #189.
Overall, I don't hate you reads. You have them, which is better than some people (Bur, Dan). They're not hugely fleshed out but there isn't SO much going on in the game that that's unreasonable. TBH if you'd made that post when I'd voted you I'd probably have pressed you less. But your OMGUS on me is just so bad. If you're going to contend that the defining feature of my scum meta is that I make attacks for bad reasons you have to actually demonstrate that I do that more as scum than town, and that my reasons here are bad. Instead you've just switched straight to 100% ECO R SCUM RAWR based on maybe 2 quotes without context that incorrectly call some reasons for attacking people bad. There just isn't enough evidence to for you to be as sure as you are, which makes me think you don't believe I'm scum, you've just decided I am and went to try and find the bare minimum of evidence you could.
I agree that from an outside perspective it looked like an OMGUS vote, but I was beginning to suspect you since you first started questioning me. I asked tom for your meta in order to decide what to with you. I had stuff to do and it just so happened that I only had time to read your scum game after you voted me and decided that you were in fact scum.
My primary reason was your hypocrisy in the way you answered almost the same question you posed to me. The voting for terrible reasons was more of an aside and I admit that I haven't yet read one of your recent town games, but I've played with you long ago and remembered that your cases were very convincing and well-made. I will try to find time tomorrow to read your town game as today I'm celebrating my birthday.
Being supremely confident in my reads when I shouldn't really be is one of my flaws, but I don't really intend to change it. I mostly play mafia cause I like the game and want to learn to express my thoughts better in writing.
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Tom asked shadow to join him on a wagon and shadow did so. I think scum shadow would have been more reserved about doing so immediately.
And I confirm I picked tom.
Since you've confirmed this, can you also talk about why you town read Tom so heavily? And also go over your Dan read since you didn't explain that. Why do you think scum Shadow would have been more reserved?
Tom has asked me different questions since the beginning in the chat. I usually treat my neighbours as town and decide if they are scum later. If tom was scum I feel that he could have stopped the questioning and I would have probably been none the wiser, The tone of his posts in the neighbourhood also seems more townie than I've ever seen tom.
I'm town reading dan for his response to your question mostly and for his response to my question. I've explained that in earlier posts, but nice try.
Because shadow seems to me to be more calculating as scum than as town. I don't doubt that shadow would follow tom even as scum, but I highly doubt that it would do it so quickly.
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Stuff happened since I asked shadow that question and I didn't really feel the need to follow up on it.
Here's my read list right now
Town
Tom
Shadow
dan
Rodemy
Neutral
Bur
Eco
Scum
Bur is just below the neutral line. Too few posts to make anything solid out of it and what's there isn't really good.
Rodemy, dan and shadow are about equal, but in that exact order although these aren't high confidence reads. I'm liking the questions Rodemy is asking. Seems to show a desire to solve the game. He's acting differently than Pirates mafia, but in a good way.
Shadow is nostly a gut read, but I like where his mind was with the Bur vote.
Tom is town cause I say so.
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God dammit I just had a post get eaten because apparently the plugin I used to recover them violates chrome store policies and disabled itself GRRR. The gist of it was:
@Vezok:
Basically everyone else has managed to get blood from this particular stone, and I think your lack of evidence of trying is indicative of scum. People can judge for themselves if your opening posts are neutral and non-committal, it's not you I need to convince. But can't really accuse me of telling bald-faced lies when you look at how empty of opinion or analysis posts like #40 ("this WIFOM situation is WIFOM"), #48 ("I think this is the post in question, I can see how some people would call it WIFOM" with no followup on Rodemy or Tom, or even if you yourself think the post is WIFOM), #53, #67 (both "I got nothing"), #88 ("I have this tiny opinion but basically means nothing") #124 (Do you think Dan is town? What do you like about his answer?).
The thing that is annoying me most is that you've 100% committed to this dreadful counterattack as I've said VEZOK LOCK SCUM KILL IT IMMEDIATELY. It's not. I voted you because you've done some scummy things and we all have to start somewhere. The vicious and also poorly supported nature of your defence really doesn't look like someone interested in working the game out, just someone who has found a potential mislynch to stick their teeth into.
This is ignoring the fact that between #67 and #88 I asked multiple questions. #88 was just a continuation of my argument that the first page was not useful at all for scum hunting. You are trying to paint it as a a lack of anything.
In #124 you are arguing semantics. Obviously if I like an answer it means that it gives town points to that person. I've also responded to why I liked dan's answer just a few posts from it.
You are twisting my words and trying to paint my every action as scummy even when you fully know you are wrong. This is scum behaviour.
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Eco looks and sounds solid town. I too see vezoks lackluster replies, although i am scared to say that is ultimatley a scum thing. He could just be bad at early game?
But here is my deciding factor for this vote:
He says he "likes dans responde to question 4"
Thats it. Not what he likes about it. Juat thag he does. I feel like that sort of blasé read can be inicative of scum trying ti say something townie.
His response ti evis pressure seems finicky as well. Pulling anothrr gsme into the mix. I get thag eco was scum in that game, but that was THAT game.
@vezok
Do you think eco would employ the same tactics as scum? Esspecially sincr it appears to be so easily pointed out and found?
vote vrzok
Have you even read my posts?
Yes, I am fully convinced that Eco scum would push wagonsfor bad reasons regardless of the game. He did it in an invitational. This is child's play for him.
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You're asking me to get blood out of stone and then claiming because I can't do it I'm scum. This, in my humble opinion, is a horrible reason to vote someone. My post was talking about the Voxxrox (?) wagon you pushed on day 1, but I apparently forgot to explain that. The quote about Cyan was just another example.
The first page and a half of this game has left almost no impression on me, as stated before. I can't start asking nonsensical questions just for the sole purpose of appearing busy. If I have nothing to say, I have nothing to say. Things happened since then and I started to get into the game. Saying that my posts have been "studiously neutral" is a bold faced lie and you know it. I don't really see a world where town Eco has this kind of attitude.
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Why are you trying to over-explain? Rodemy understood this. You're trying to push a lynch on me, because everybody is lurking and we won't be able to make another wagon.
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Can I persuade you to join the Ecophagy wagon instead?
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I agree that from an outside perspective it looked like an OMGUS vote, but I was beginning to suspect you since you first started questioning me. I asked tom for your meta in order to decide what to with you. I had stuff to do and it just so happened that I only had time to read your scum game after you voted me and decided that you were in fact scum.
My primary reason was your hypocrisy in the way you answered almost the same question you posed to me. The voting for terrible reasons was more of an aside and I admit that I haven't yet read one of your recent town games, but I've played with you long ago and remembered that your cases were very convincing and well-made. I will try to find time tomorrow to read your town game as today I'm celebrating my birthday.
Being supremely confident in my reads when I shouldn't really be is one of my flaws, but I don't really intend to change it. I mostly play mafia cause I like the game and want to learn to express my thoughts better in writing.
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Check out the Shop Thread
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I like tom. To be fair, it was between you and him, but I decided to pick tom cause I think he's more funny.
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Tom has asked me different questions since the beginning in the chat. I usually treat my neighbours as town and decide if they are scum later. If tom was scum I feel that he could have stopped the questioning and I would have probably been none the wiser, The tone of his posts in the neighbourhood also seems more townie than I've ever seen tom.
I'm town reading dan for his response to your question mostly and for his response to my question. I've explained that in earlier posts, but nice try.
Because shadow seems to me to be more calculating as scum than as town. I don't doubt that shadow would follow tom even as scum, but I highly doubt that it would do it so quickly.
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Tom asked shadow to join him on a wagon and shadow did so. I think scum shadow would have been more reserved about doing so immediately.
And I confirm I picked tom.
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Here's my read list right now
Town
Tom
Shadow
dan
Rodemy
Neutral
Bur
Eco
Scum
Bur is just below the neutral line. Too few posts to make anything solid out of it and what's there isn't really good.
Rodemy, dan and shadow are about equal, but in that exact order although these aren't high confidence reads. I'm liking the questions Rodemy is asking. Seems to show a desire to solve the game. He's acting differently than Pirates mafia, but in a good way.
Shadow is nostly a gut read, but I like where his mind was with the Bur vote.
Tom is town cause I say so.
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This is ignoring the fact that between #67 and #88 I asked multiple questions. #88 was just a continuation of my argument that the first page was not useful at all for scum hunting. You are trying to paint it as a a lack of anything.
In #124 you are arguing semantics. Obviously if I like an answer it means that it gives town points to that person. I've also responded to why I liked dan's answer just a few posts from it.
You are twisting my words and trying to paint my every action as scummy even when you fully know you are wrong. This is scum behaviour.
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Have you even read my posts?
Yes, I am fully convinced that Eco scum would push wagonsfor bad reasons regardless of the game. He did it in an invitational. This is child's play for him.
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The first page and a half of this game has left almost no impression on me, as stated before. I can't start asking nonsensical questions just for the sole purpose of appearing busy. If I have nothing to say, I have nothing to say. Things happened since then and I started to get into the game. Saying that my posts have been "studiously neutral" is a bold faced lie and you know it. I don't really see a world where town Eco has this kind of attitude.
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