Day 1 Tom knew wuffles was scum, Kami was town, and kj was bad town shouldn't have let myself get pressured into voting before reread.
Who knows if I would have got there but lynching wuffles first would have outed grape so that would have done it
Gg scum. Wuffles was obvious all along but fooled again by grape and extremely suboptimal role usage
Fortunately you didn't manage to convince vezok or KJ of that fact.
I think if you'd avoided trying for the speedlynch so early I wouldnt have really known what to do with myself this game tbh. You gave me a person to dive all in on which is probably the main reason why I was so stubbornly Townread by KJ and Vezok D1, also probs why you weren't able to get me lynched. I legitimately would have gone after you in the same way as town or scum this game because speedlynching someone just made no sense to me from a town perspective especially when there wasn't time for any reads to have possibly developed.
Weirdly if you guys'd listened to the hydra you'd have had us cold. KK was completely correct in their read and was on me the whole time.
I'm glad it was the right decision not to shoot, though. This setup felt like big gambits were really rewarded since there wasn't many ways mechanically that we could be discovered.
Last and Tom were correctly on me almost all day 1.
Killjoy we felt was the most townie of all - his analysis was great - he just happened to Townread me with vezok all of day 1 and didn't ever really question those reads. We were super stoked when his going after Tom put him in the firing line instead of me.
Grape, you were such a joy to play with. We bounced off each other super well and 10/10 would scum slam again. There's been a lot of needless aggressiveness on mtgs mafia games lately and playing with you was just a treat and a privilege. <3
Okay, nope, nothing I can see convinces me that Tom isn't scum, as I said in my message last night. I don't know who out of vezok or KJ is scum (definitely leaning vezok, as he's been pocketing me the whole game, and suddenly swapped to "oh it has to be wuffles and KJ") but I'm waiting for Grape to post before I make any decisions.
KJ I don't think that your attack on Tom not immediately voting in Lylo is a good one. As scum, he'd want to wait for a townie to vote someone before jumping on for the speedlynch, and on the near-0 chance he's town, he'd want to wait to be sure before voting. It's just a bad argument either way dude.
*****. Actually, that doesn't change *that* much about my POE, but it got me to re-check scumsloger's "breadcrumb", so I maintain the above post is still worth reading. it's 3:35AM and I need to sleep.
Okay, I just re-read. Forgive me for Wuffles derp #3, because I managed to miss two of Last's posts where he claimed that the mafia could take two actions - a token action and a mafiakill action in the same night.
So I learned that grape would not know if he was attacked...
And my track can see both the factional kill and the players own ability, if they target different people...
Wisp, just confirming that your role ability states that the mafia can both use their token ability AND kill all in the same night?
If so, that changes things.
It means that:
Tom could have false claimed to have watched grape and at the same time submitted a kill.
Killjoy could have tried to la-baguette Tom AND tried to kill someone but JailFailed.
KK could have done literally anything except target grape (IF Tom is telling the truth, which I'm actually not convinced about here)
If this is true, then the only people who are currently cleared from attempting the kill last night are:
Wisp
Grapefruit (unless KK is exactly bulletproof *and* his vest got shot last night)
Wuffles
Vezok - Unless the scum team is *exactly* vezok/tom, which I think might be possible due to my findings below...
Which means that the shot last night must have come from one of Tom/Kami/KJ.
I re-read the posts leading up to Tom's watcher results post that could have been "breadcrumb" posts. If his "breadcrumb" that Vezok was the only person to target grape last night and so Grape wasn't the NK target in order to "prove" he's watcher (in either post #359 or #365), then why did he say this in 409 (Bolded by me(????
I'm just gonna shut up about Kami in case they flip scum.
I hate reading hydras anyway.
Last town tracker
Vezok is town doctor>>scum and that's the discarded role>>>>>>scum redirector.
Either kj or grape was the nightkill maybe (or BP, or they no killed) but they're kind of my top townreads anyway pending reread.
Kami exists.
Wuffles is messenger.
It doesn't SOUND like you had a watcher result confirming Grape was only targeted by Vezok in this post. It doesn't sound like you're even sure that Grape wasn't the target of the NK in this post.
I don't buy your watcher claim. It's too conveniently slotted right in after everyone (except KK) had claimed their actions or lack thereof.
CLAIMS:
Wuffles - Messenger (confirmed did not perform the kill)
Wisp - Tracker (confirmed by knowing I did not perform an action last night and by Osie's screwup)
Grape - Jailkeeper (confirmed by KJ)
Killjoy - Purveyor of baked goods (unconfirmed)
Vezok - Doctor/super low chance of Redirector (confirmed targeted Grape - could only have redirected, not killed)
Tom - Watcher (pretty much confirmed by his knowing Vezok didn't save anyone, unless anyone thinks otherwise )
That leaves KK as either Motivator/RB or Bulletproof/ninja.
Tom, if you're town, I can't believe you tried for that D1 speedlynch. so, So, SO bad. SO BAD. I HATE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW.
Which means that the following people could have performed the kill last night that (if I'm not mistaken) *had* to have bounced off KJ's jail protect (or hit a bulletproof, but let's put that aside as it will become obvious if KK claims bulletproof) are:
Killjoy (roleblocked by JK)
Kamikaze Kazin (question mark)
I'm 99$ certain that this makes KK the lynch by POE for today.
Wisp, you sound like you need a sleep and maybe a hug.
Grape, I don't see why it's worth pushing wisp on that; he's lock town and pushing him isn't going to help us lynch scum.
I'm sorry for not being there at the deadline; it was at 1am wuffles time and I had work in the morning. I placed my final vote and had to leave it at that. Fortunately osie seems to have learned a hard lesson from that too so hopefully that kinda timing won't happen again.
Yeah, I'm not saying that a KJ RB was likely, only that it's a statistical possibility above zero.
I also think you're asking the wrong questions if you're asking Tom to reveal his night actions tbh. He already implied he was Baker if I'm no mistaken and that he force-fed...KJ? Urgh going back to check is a pain in the ass on a mobile.
Well last is basically mod confirmed tracker at this point.
Town only role.
Still hate wuffles reaction there even though it wasn't true.
Maybe especially?
Like, didn't think last was gambiting scum even for a second?
He probably is messenger though. Would be pretty dumb to claim a provable role but that's an NAI role
Maybe he did derp that those could be scum roles but... I don't really buy it
never tell me the odds of wuffles derping.
And I'm actually just super tired of you trying to tell me I knew wisp was town before it became obvious.
Like, okay, I do think of wisp as someone who goes with his gut over careful thread analysis. I freely admit that I think that someone like KJ who carefully reviews threads looking for links between motivations is someone I am more likely to gravitate towards trusting by default. But like as soon as you tried to seriously create momentum to get him run up, I saw how scummy that was, and started town reading wisp. That and the fact that he is playing what I consider (based on Arkham) his town game is enough for me to write him off as town at least day 1.
And while I knew he *could* have been gambitting town trying to push a D1 scumread of his (dumb move, but understandable) there is no reason why he would do that as scum. It makes no sense. Going one for one in a 2 mafia game when the next day wouldn't even be lylo? The worst move. I think you're flatly throwing shade at wisp if you seriously thought him scum gambitting was a thing he'd do, and I think you're looking down on me pretty hard by saying me not assuming wisp was pulling a scum gambit was wrong. It did cross my mind, obviously, because what wisp was saying WAS wrong,but like...wisp would be the worst mafia player on MTGS if he tried to fake that result as scum on me. It's just not a trade that a scum (wisp or otherwise) would make.
Hmm. It does look bad that KJ was jailed and no kill occurred, but I just asked osie if in the case that a doc or JK prevented a kill if either the target or the protector would be told - but nobody would be.
So it's possible (and considering how blatantly town KJ was yesterday) that he was targeted by a kill action or that grape was targeted.
So either:
KJ is scum and was prevented from killing last night; or
Grape or KJ is town and we're protected from a kill last night; or
There's a bulletproof in the game that has yet to claim getting his bulletproof codpiece shot off.
I think KamiHydra is looking pretty bad today though. Lurking all of day 1 except for an opportunistic third wagon vote on me followed by that tinfoil day 2?
Osie just confirmed to me via PM that he screwed up,which will soon become obvious I imagine.
I did not message anyone last night. I did not jail anyone last night. I sure as hell am not responsible for the missing kill last night.
I was so secure in the fact that I decided to save my messenger that I MISREAD what you said when you reported those results and assumed your results were "wuffles stayed in last night".
I actively chose not to message anyone last night because it wouldn't confirm me as town. I WAS going to troll Scumsloger by messaging song lyrics to him but like just being onto him so hard was antagonising enough.
I think if you'd avoided trying for the speedlynch so early I wouldnt have really known what to do with myself this game tbh. You gave me a person to dive all in on which is probably the main reason why I was so stubbornly Townread by KJ and Vezok D1, also probs why you weren't able to get me lynched. I legitimately would have gone after you in the same way as town or scum this game because speedlynching someone just made no sense to me from a town perspective especially when there wasn't time for any reads to have possibly developed.
I'm glad it was the right decision not to shoot, though. This setup felt like big gambits were really rewarded since there wasn't many ways mechanically that we could be discovered.
Last and Tom were correctly on me almost all day 1.
Killjoy we felt was the most townie of all - his analysis was great - he just happened to Townread me with vezok all of day 1 and didn't ever really question those reads. We were super stoked when his going after Tom put him in the firing line instead of me.
Grape, you were such a joy to play with. We bounced off each other super well and 10/10 would scum slam again. There's been a lot of needless aggressiveness on mtgs mafia games lately and playing with you was just a treat and a privilege. <3
*does power-wolf secret handshake with grape*
KJ I don't think that your attack on Tom not immediately voting in Lylo is a good one. As scum, he'd want to wait for a townie to vote someone before jumping on for the speedlynch, and on the near-0 chance he's town, he'd want to wait to be sure before voting. It's just a bad argument either way dude.
Need to re-read. I'll wait for Grape to post to confirm.
Wisp, just confirming that your role ability states that the mafia can both use their token ability AND kill all in the same night?
If so, that changes things.
It means that:
Tom could have false claimed to have watched grape and at the same time submitted a kill.
Killjoy could have tried to la-baguette Tom AND tried to kill someone but JailFailed.
KK could have done literally anything except target grape (IF Tom is telling the truth, which I'm actually not convinced about here)
If this is true, then the only people who are currently cleared from attempting the kill last night are:
Wisp
Grapefruit (unless KK is exactly bulletproof *and* his vest got shot last night)
Wuffles
Vezok - Unless the scum team is *exactly* vezok/tom, which I think might be possible due to my findings below...
Which means that the shot last night must have come from one of Tom/Kami/KJ.
I re-read the posts leading up to Tom's watcher results post that could have been "breadcrumb" posts. If his "breadcrumb" that Vezok was the only person to target grape last night and so Grape wasn't the NK target in order to "prove" he's watcher (in either post #359 or #365), then why did he say this in 409 (Bolded by me(????
It doesn't SOUND like you had a watcher result confirming Grape was only targeted by Vezok in this post. It doesn't sound like you're even sure that Grape wasn't the target of the NK in this post.
I don't buy your watcher claim. It's too conveniently slotted right in after everyone (except KK) had claimed their actions or lack thereof.
Unvote, Vote Tomsloger.
Here's the current read on the situation:
CLAIMS:
Wuffles - Messenger (confirmed did not perform the kill)
Wisp - Tracker (confirmed by knowing I did not perform an action last night and by Osie's screwup)
Grape - Jailkeeper (confirmed by KJ)
Killjoy - Purveyor of baked goods (unconfirmed)
Vezok - Doctor/super low chance of Redirector (confirmed targeted Grape - could only have redirected, not killed)
Tom - Watcher (pretty much confirmed by his knowing Vezok didn't save anyone, unless anyone thinks otherwise )
That leaves KK as either Motivator/RB or Bulletproof/ninja.
Tom, if you're town, I can't believe you tried for that D1 speedlynch. so, So, SO bad. SO BAD. I HATE YOU SO MUCH RIGHT NOW.
Which means that the following people could have performed the kill last night that (if I'm not mistaken) *had* to have bounced off KJ's jail protect (or hit a bulletproof, but let's put that aside as it will become obvious if KK claims bulletproof) are:
Killjoy (roleblocked by JK)
Kamikaze Kazin (question mark)
I'm 99$ certain that this makes KK the lynch by POE for today.
Grape, I don't see why it's worth pushing wisp on that; he's lock town and pushing him isn't going to help us lynch scum.
I'm sorry for not being there at the deadline; it was at 1am wuffles time and I had work in the morning. I placed my final vote and had to leave it at that. Fortunately osie seems to have learned a hard lesson from that too so hopefully that kinda timing won't happen again.
Yeah, I'm not saying that a KJ RB was likely, only that it's a statistical possibility above zero.
I also think you're asking the wrong questions if you're asking Tom to reveal his night actions tbh. He already implied he was Baker if I'm no mistaken and that he force-fed...KJ? Urgh going back to check is a pain in the ass on a mobile.
And I'm actually just super tired of you trying to tell me I knew wisp was town before it became obvious.
Like, okay, I do think of wisp as someone who goes with his gut over careful thread analysis. I freely admit that I think that someone like KJ who carefully reviews threads looking for links between motivations is someone I am more likely to gravitate towards trusting by default. But like as soon as you tried to seriously create momentum to get him run up, I saw how scummy that was, and started town reading wisp. That and the fact that he is playing what I consider (based on Arkham) his town game is enough for me to write him off as town at least day 1.
And while I knew he *could* have been gambitting town trying to push a D1 scumread of his (dumb move, but understandable) there is no reason why he would do that as scum. It makes no sense. Going one for one in a 2 mafia game when the next day wouldn't even be lylo? The worst move. I think you're flatly throwing shade at wisp if you seriously thought him scum gambitting was a thing he'd do, and I think you're looking down on me pretty hard by saying me not assuming wisp was pulling a scum gambit was wrong. It did cross my mind, obviously, because what wisp was saying WAS wrong,but like...wisp would be the worst mafia player on MTGS if he tried to fake that result as scum on me. It's just not a trade that a scum (wisp or otherwise) would make.
So it's possible (and considering how blatantly town KJ was yesterday) that he was targeted by a kill action or that grape was targeted.
So either:
KJ is scum and was prevented from killing last night; or
Grape or KJ is town and we're protected from a kill last night; or
There's a bulletproof in the game that has yet to claim getting his bulletproof codpiece shot off.
I think KamiHydra is looking pretty bad today though. Lurking all of day 1 except for an opportunistic third wagon vote on me followed by that tinfoil day 2?
I'm comfortable with a Vote KamikazeKazin.
Osie just confirmed to me via PM that he screwed up,which will soon become obvious I imagine.
I did not message anyone last night. I did not jail anyone last night. I sure as hell am not responsible for the missing kill last night.
I was so secure in the fact that I decided to save my messenger that I MISREAD what you said when you reported those results and assumed your results were "wuffles stayed in last night".
I actively chose not to message anyone last night because it wouldn't confirm me as town. I WAS going to troll Scumsloger by messaging song lyrics to him but like just being onto him so hard was antagonising enough.
I swear to God wisp if you're gambitting here I will eat your god-damn mailbox.