I feel like the new Assassin's Trophy might push BGx decks to be more powerful than ours unfortunately. Its a better card than Terminate or Dreadbore which are our unconditional removal spells. What do ya'll think?
Assassin's trophy may be a house in standard and could warrant some legacy play but in modern the card is for almost all intents and purposes outclassed by Abrupt Decay. Jund and Abzan would only want to play it as a means to disrupt Tron on turn 2 on the draw, but I don't see it being more than a Sideboard card for them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Does anyone else have problems with the Storm matchup? The primer lists it as favourable, but I've had real difficulties with them answering my hate and going off - or, if they can't immediately answer my hate pieces, having a lack of a clock to be able to pressure them before they can dig for their answers to my hate and go off.
Admittedly, I'm down a single Kambal in the board, which doesn't help, but I still feel like the matchup is unfavourable.
As a former storm player, yes the matchup should be pretty favorable if you play properly. Game 1 we don't have any way to interact with their graveyard, so you have to lean on discard (hit their grapeshots first, then past in flames, then gifts, then rituals) and killing their bears as soon as you're able to keep them from being able to combo out. Game 2 they're going to board in 12 cards (!) and should look like this if they're following Caleb Scherer's list (he's pretty much THE storm player right now and his word is effectively gospel)
It's very important to remember that in the sideboard games you're not playing against the same deck you just faced, and even though your obvious thought is "jam all the GY hate" it's likely to not work that well. As you can see, the deck largely abandons the route of winning through the graveyard in favor of trying to assemble a large enough number of goblin tokens to win, but the threat of grapeshot/unsub/grapeshot still lingers - often times they'll be content to empty for 5, make 10 tokens and force us to deal with it. Big graveyard hate like Nihil Spellbomb or Leyline of the Void won't phase them, though surgical extraction still can snipe a storm spell we discard to really mess them up.
IN:
-Kambal, Consul of Allocation: This guy (alongside pyromancer) is why they board in five removal spells against us. They simply cannot combo properly with him sitting in play, and the lifegain we get if they try is amazing. Even if they pop a bolt immediately, it's a 4 life point swing which can be relevant. You REALLY are going to want 2 of him, and he's not even expensive at all.
-Engineered Explosives/Anger of the Gods: When storm is on the ETW plan they can go wider than even we can. EE on 0 is the cleanest answer to their play, but it is worth noting that they have 2 empties, plus the one past in flames that can recast them, while we only have 2 sweepers and no way to recur them. They have no way to interact with our hand, but bring in abrade so NEVER deploy an EE unless you're planning to pop it immediately. Anger has the upside of killing (and exiling) their baral, but wiping the token horde is the primary concern. Having a pair is great, but 1 should be manageable.
-Surgical Extraction: As I mentioned above, surgical is probably the one piece of graveyard hate storm actually fears post-board. Leyline and spellbomb they can easily play around, thoughtseize into surgcial they really can't. (You do run the risk of them not boarding properly and keeping Noxious Revival in post-board to countercall extraction, but you should ideally be casting it the same turn you discard so you'll know it's clear.) You'll usually only have 1, but might have a second if other combo decks are locally prevalent.
-Liliana of the Veil: Most lists have abandoned the expensive Lily for her newer counterpart Liliana, the Last Hope as she's relevant in a lot more matchups. This is one of the few where LotV really shines, and if you have her as a tech 1-of in the board she can really apply the pressure. If you don't have her but have a 3rd copy of Collective Brutality sitting in your board, consider that instead for the two relevant modes. (drain 2 + duress)
-Hazoret the Frevent: Often used as a mirror breaker, Hazoret still is a fine card to bring in if you've got it, with 4 toughness (not that it matters due to indestructible) making her Abrade-proof, while also being a mana and card sink to be able to bash through the rest of the damage we need. You would only ever have 1 copy, but bring it in here.
This means you're going to have probably anywhere from 5 to 8 cards to cut, and here's what I'd suggest:
OUT: Blood Moon: While the current iteration of storm doesn't play fetches and therefore is a bit weak to moon, they run 4 basic islands, plus mnamorphose allows them to pretty easily get out from under moon when they want to combo off. Especially post board they don't even really NEED blue mana to kill you, so it's a bit of a clunker there. Cut them both.
Dreadbore/Terminate: The deck post board will only have 2 creatures plus a swarm of tokens that 1-for-1 answers do poorly against. We have Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push that can deal with Baral, so you should be safe cutting all copies of both cards (If you still feel skittish you can leave in 1 Terminate)
Liliana, The Last Hope: As I said before, LtLH doesn't fare well in this matchup. Her +1 won't kill baral and only 1 goblin, her other two abilities are marginally useful but don't come down quickly enough to interact properly.
Lingering Souls: Souls is very rarely a card we cut, but in all honesty our way to win is to rush to a Bedlam Reveler or Hazoret. Pyromancer is just a target that we can hope to get 1-2 tokens out of through incidental value, and even 4 tokens doesn't do great when our opponent has 10+. Cut up to 3 as space requires.
Hopefully this helps you out!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Worship is a really bad card, most decks have many outs to it. Mardu Pyro has way too many, mostly in the form of multiple CBs in the main.
If the GW variant runs like 3-4 Courser of Kruphix, you can always board in wear // tear against it and Worship can just end up being collateral damage. They're not boarding Coursers out against Mardu Pyro anyway since it's Bolt/CB/Kolaghan's Command proof and needs revolt to be pushed while blocking pyro tokens efficiently, creating card advantage and gaining life.
Yeah, the issue was I had no clue he had worship since I drew 0 discard spells game 1, and he just won with a 10/10 knight of the reliqaury game 1, only other cards I saw were birds, voice of resurgence and qasali pridemage to kill my turn 3 blood moon on the play (he fetched 2 temple gardens on his first two turns with forest, plains, and pridemage in hand, told me after the match it was specifically to bait out blood moon.) I boarded in spellbombs to neuter KoTR and cut brutalities as I didn't think the drain mode would be relevant. I for sure won't make that mistake next time.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Ran into an absolute buzzsaw tonight and went 0-4 against GW Valuetown (Knight of the reliquary package + Rhonas/worship, looked kind of like some maverick brew), Bloomless Titan, Tron, and Bant Spirits.
I tried cutting the 2 Fatal Push in my board for 1 Stony Silence and 1 Liliana of the Veil - didn't see either in the tron MU (only time I brought them in) so no word on if that's better or not. Not really a lot to report since the matches were all so lopsided.
Any thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
With all the graveyard hate right now (Leyline of the void), how do you feel about relying a bit less on the graveyard ?
Curious what you guys think about this version, 3 rabblemaster main (good vs KCI/TRON) , no moon but 3 alpine moon in the side ! This version seems better vs KCI and TRON , two top deck in this meta.
Honestly I feel leyline of the void is the least damning graveyard hate card to bring in against us, for the sheer fact that it doesn't empty what's already in our yard like Nihil Spellbomb or Rest in Peace do. Sure it can come down turn 0 and we have to play around it which sucks, but I'm not sure we're the kind of deck that many others can afford to aggressively mulligan to 5 or 4 or 3 just to get it because we have so much discard to force them into hoping they curve out from top of the deck. Spellbomb and RIP coming down at the wrong time can be an absolute blowout.
For tron, the pairing of turn 2 stony silence turn 3 blood moon should really keep them off pace long enough to put a clock on them if we're on the play, because it limits their outs to "draw basic forest to nature's claim moon". Is it a great play to hope on? Of course not, but alpine moon just hands them the green mana they need to kill it and that feels even worse.
As an aside, I've seen a number of people grumbling a bit about possibly wanting faithless looting banned in modern because of all the decks that are (ab)using it. Can this deck survive if that's what gets the axe, and if so how could we replace it. (I will note that the consensus, at least among Sally posters, is ancient stirrings is a better/more likely ban)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
[
Seems like I can build a decent sideboard with what I already own. The one I came up with is almost identical to what you posted (maybe I should have just posted it. No clue why I didn't. Probably didn't want the posting to be too long). [I have: -1 Anger of the Gods, -1 Molten Rain, +2 Goblin Rabblemaster, 1 Fatal Push, 1 Dreadbore as removal].
Instead of Liliana, the Last Hope I'm playing Nahiri, the Harbinger in my mainboard. I cannot really elaborate why, though. Just a gut decision. After reading your post I immediately switched them :).
This is the deck atm (The 2nd Manamorphose is a tribute to the manabase and I don't have a 2nd Collective Brutality anyway. I'm thinking about cutting it, putting another Dreadbore in the main and adding the 3rd Molten Rain to the Sideboard):
Nahiri is a very interesting choice, one that I'm not keen on but it does have three relevant modes. You're fine keeping it.
I do like cutting a manamorphose for a 2nd dreadbore, and the question you're going to have to ask is when you get the 2nd collective brutality is it going to replace the terminate or the manamorphose (Personal opinion, cut terminate until you have the manabase locked, then swap manamorphose for terminate. having 3 hard removal spells is really nice to have.)
Gargodon is not on my radar since its not really working with the Looting aspect of the deck. Looting is on its own negative CA, which gets mitigated through the YP triggers, Souls and fuel for Reveler. In that sense tokens from YP are one way to gain CA back. I think it wouldn't make sense to dump all those tokens into one big creature in order to us making us vulnerbale to strong single target removal again.
I think (well, I hope) that the thinking behind greater gargadon is only saccing creatures that are about to die anyway (chump blockers or things with removal on the stack at them) and let it tick down normally otherwise. And maybe if we 100% know that swinging with a 9/7 wins the game on the spot, sure we can dump everything to drop it in right now and finish.
Still don't like it, but it's not the WORST thing to do with tokesn that are chump blocking.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I also play with Dragonskull Summits as cheap replacements for Blackcleave Cliffs (replacing the whole playset and also playing 1 Wooded Foothills instead of 1 Marsh Flats). But the Graven Cairns got me thinking if I should swap 1 Dragonskull Summit with 1 Graven Cairns. Got no clue if it's a good idea, though.
A 1-lander with Graven Cairns seems absolutely unkeepable from my perspective (you could theoretically get down a Nihil Spellbomb T1 but then have a high risk of having no follow up). A 1-lander with Dragonskull Summit is very bad too. But it does not lock you out of the game quite as easily. If you have an untapped land for T1 both seem very similar too me. While Graven Cairns forces you to use your mana at the same time it also gives you all possible mana combinations.
Another thing I'm unsure about is how high I should prioritize buying those Blackcleave Cliffs over investing in the sideboard (Got no Bridges, only 1 CB, no LotV, no EE, no Leylines). Any other land in the deck (except Graven Cairns) let it enter untapped. The difference are 1-lander (20% of the 1-lander almost "timewalk" you or force another mulligan). Opening hands with a basic + Summit can reduce your options or force a suboptimal T1 play. I'm really torn since a reprint in the near future might be possible for at least EE and Cliffs. Bridge and Blood Moon look like the safest bet since they just saw a reprint but might be the weakest options.
Blackcleave Cliffs is a REALLY important card for the deck, because it's a pain-free way to be able to play a discard spell AND a faithless looting, but at the same time I can understand not wanting to dump money into it - that said I do not anticipate a reprint anytime soon, and one that does happen will at best knock 20-30% off the price if the fetches are any indication. Dragonskull summit works okay as a sub on the cheap but it does clg up hands, especially if you're playing four of them (two I've found is usually safe). The way I managed it was effectively just picking up one every couple weeks until I had my four, made easier by just not needing any other MTG stuff during that span. If you have none, here's what I'd recommend for a manabase:
If marsh flats and arid mesa are outside your budget, the other red and black fetches are good replacements in the interim. As you collect the cliffs, I'd remove the fetches first, and once you get two cliffs you can pretty safely sub in summit at that point for the two extra basics.
For your sideboard, this is what I'd put together:
2 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Surgical Extraction - Without splurging for leyline of the void, this is still a fine graveyard hate suite that ought to thwart off most decks that rely on the yard. Extirpate can work if you'd rather two extract effects and can't get another surgical at your price point, but generally 3 pieces of GY hate will be enough.
3 Molten Rain - It's not exactly a game-winner against tron but can slow them down a bit, especially when you pair it with surgical extraction. But more than that, it gives you extra game against decks with utility lands that can get around blood moon - jund and abzan come to mind. It also can let you try to choke them off by playing blood moon and then killing basics.
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation - This guy is a house right now. Side him in against burn, side him in against storm, side him in against control, side him in against the mirror. He does for us what Eidolon of the great revel does for burn - buys us time to reload because our opponent has to play around it until they can kill it.
2 Wear // Tear - There aren't too many enchantments we care about, but having the option for things like rest in peace, leylines (black and white), and search for azcanta is good to have. Plus, extra artifact destruction on the same card never hurts.
2 Anger of the Gods - without EE this is the next best thing we have. It normally blows up humans, it blows up affinity, it exiles a lot of the troublesome cards in bridgevine/hollow one, and the really important creature (Bedlam reveler) survives it. Just be very careful about trying it againt humans/spirits/CoCo decks if they have any way to flash in a 2-drop.
1 Liliana, the Last Hope - with the caveat that you should really be playing 1 copy in your mainboard and if you aren't it should be there and not here. She's amazing in the current meta, she shines against abzan, the mirror, humans, and generally those decks have a higher metagame share than the decks LotV is good against (Jund, storm, control, tron to a lesser extent) Having a second copy in your board isn't a terrible addition but you REALLY want one in your 60.
2 Removal Flex - Any of the kill spells you listed are justifiable to round out your board. Fatal push very cheaply kills a lot of important creatures even without revolt, and with revolt there's only a handful of dudes it won't kill. Terminate and Dreadbore are very no-frills efficient kill spells that are never bad options if you have worrisome targets. Anguished Unmaking can be a very cute countercall to anything annoying, but what comes to mind immediately is opposing Hazoret, the Fervent which has become accepted as a really good mirror breaker. Darkblast is a cute recurrable removal spell that fills our yard. Hell, even Goblin Rabblemaster is a fine choice to try and increase our clock against decks that want to go long like tron and control. Pretty hard to go wrong here.
Hope this helps!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
So what are our thoughts regarding the Bridgevine deck that came out of the protour? Do we want more surgical extractions to pick off bridge before they can get going? exiling sweepers like Anger of the Gods to deny them the chance to reanimate? More generic removal?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Leaving Blood Moon against the mirror (if this was indeed the case) is so off. Why would someone even do that?
I asked them about it, because the board out is pretty clear on my SB guide. Both of them had a similar response: Since we both know the "correct" play is to cut blood moon, we aren't likely to play around blood moon, which means there is value in surprising our opponent with it (and since we cut half our discard suite post-board it's less likely we can scout it out in advance). Leaving a singleton moon post-board is a next-level play that can steal a win if our opponent is napping and I can respect that, but it's a little too cute for my liking.
The maindeck is more or less set, but the board seems like it'll be in a constant flux for the following reasons:
Surgical Extraction <--> Nihil Spellbomb: Some decks have key cards that need to be ripped out of their deck, and some cards just need their yard emptied. I have a 1-2 split in favor of spellbomb right now, and if I had the money the smart play would just be to play 3x Leyline of the Void, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wear // Tear <--> Stony Silence: There aren't many enchantments we actually want to kill unless we're facing bogles, but having two cards to kill things like a leyline of sanctity or rest in peace means we have a better chance of digging it up when they do hit. Meanwhile stony silence locks up KCI as well as anything trying to play aether vial, and has incremental advantage against affinity (which we should be solid against already, but why pass it up?)
Fatal Push <--> Extra copies of other SB cards: Against jund and abzan and humans, I feel like I need to add more kill spells to be able to keep up. While EE might be good against them in certain situations it's easy to play around, whereas push just picks off dudes. On the other hand, having access to a 4th piece of GY hate, or a 2nd wear//tear PLUS having stony silence, or a 3rd molten rain all seem like useful cards to be packing.
If anyone's got suggestions on that, I'd love to hear them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I went 3-1 twice at Gencon events, only losses were to KCI and Abzan once (beat it the other time) and won the mirror match twice.
Some thoughts:
-I’m 100% sold on the maindeck basic plains. Both mirror matches put me on not having it and kept a blood moon in post-board to lock me out of Kambal, plus it lets me dodge ghost quarter as well.
-EE was only boarded in once, for one mirror game.(got two for 70 each on site) It might just be bad in the local meta though, seems it only is good vs. humans and elves?
-Lily the last hope was 100% busted, very glad I made the switch.
-I know I probably should cut the two fatal pushes in the board for a stony silence and a 3rd molten rain but I feel like push is so good. Thoughts?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Any recent experiences with manamorphose? I still love the card in theory...
There's a lot of pros that play it as a 1-of because it enables some really neat tech, namely being able to cast white spells under blood moon without a basic plains, but also being able to cast both push and terminate with only 1 swamp. It's a free token for pyromancer, and it replaces itself. It's really solid.
That said, I don't play it in my list, I personally think (at least in my meta) I need the extra removal in a 2nd copy of terminate. If I cut Lily I could try it as a 1-of, but honestly having access to a 5th hard removal spell has made me feel safer about using one on a must-kill threat early on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
You're more likely to see Mishra's Bauble if it was traverse. Traverse is 3-of in most lists these days whereas Bauble is always 4-of.
I never saw bauble from the guy that had the flayer. I do remember that he questioned why I boarded in Wear // Tear, it was because I expected leyline of the void form his board. He said he plays Nihil spellbomb because it's an artifact for delirium.
I will admit that hide//seek is a clean answer to wurmcoil engine, but that's not really what we're wanting in artifact/enchantment hate, and with fetches in the format it's only a matter of time before they turn it live again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Usually against Abzan, I find Blood Moon strongly restricts their ability to actually... do things. But while I think we're favoured, we're not that favoured.
In the 5 games I found blood moon one time, after they'd already fetched out 4 basics. I know adding a third isn't the answer but it seems to only ever show up in the matches where it's irrelevant.
Specifically Abzan Traverse has a favouarble matchup against us, as Leonardo who got second at Sao Paulo claims. Trample is the key here. It seems really weird that your opponent kept all discard and especially LoTV after g1. LotV is really bad against us.
One was probably abzan traverse, I never saw Traverse the Ulvenwald but did see a grim flayer. The other was closer to abzan superfriends with LotV, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and Sorin, Solemn Visitor alongside birds of paradise to ramp into them, plus the usual suite of discard and rhinos and goyfs and removal. Both times after board I just had no way to interact with them and they 1-for-1 me to death.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Are there ways to attack KCI that aren't straightforward? Currently it seems you either need graveyard hate/Surgical Extraction or you just lose.
There's really no other way to do it. KCI is one of those decks that's just a check on the format. Do you have graveyard hate? If so you can win, if not then you lose. There's no other way to attack them other than "kill their lynchpin artifacts and surgical them out of the yard so they can't be recurred".
In any case I went 1-4 tonight. Beat storm handily, then lost twice to burn and twice to abzan. Burn's just a complete mess, 2 CB and 2 Kambal aren't enough but I can't think of anything else that could tip the scales that much.
Abzan was just a grind that was so tilt-inducing at the end it killed any thoughts I had at playing in the SCGOpen tomorrow. Siege Rhino is next to impossible to stop, bedlam reveler felt dead super often between pulse, path, Liliana's -2 and goyfs; and when I cut all my discard like the sideboard guide says, they kept all theirs in and I was very quickly stuck in topdeck mode facing down a pair of 4/5s and a lily ready to ult while I only have 3 lands and nothing in my graveyard to flash back.
what am I missing?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
I went 2-2 last night, lost to the same players I lost to at the IQ (Jund and Burn) and beat storm and affinity. Both losses I'd mostly stabilized but topdecks happen, I'm not too bent out of shape about it.
Also, one local had been playing Goblin Chainwhirler as a 1-of in the board because in his words, "F*** the mirror match". He's also running 3 lightning helix, with 0 Liliana mainboard (2 veil 1 last hope in the board) 0 manamorphose and 19 land (2 sacred foundry 1 plains to support it) I can't justify it, but it's interesting to think about.
Also I feel like I board out blood moon too often - I felt like I had to cut it against both burn (since i bring in all my white spells and can't cast them under BM) and Jund (molten rain answers their manlands and doesn't die to Maelstrom Pulse/Abrupt Decay.) What matchups should I be really thinking about cutting moon, and what matchups should I force myself to cut other things?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Top 16 - 2012 Indiana State Championships Currently Playing: GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Assassin's trophy may be a house in standard and could warrant some legacy play but in modern the card is for almost all intents and purposes outclassed by Abrupt Decay. Jund and Abzan would only want to play it as a means to disrupt Tron on turn 2 on the draw, but I don't see it being more than a Sideboard card for them.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
As a former storm player, yes the matchup should be pretty favorable if you play properly. Game 1 we don't have any way to interact with their graveyard, so you have to lean on discard (hit their grapeshots first, then past in flames, then gifts, then rituals) and killing their bears as soon as you're able to keep them from being able to combo out. Game 2 they're going to board in 12 cards (!) and should look like this if they're following Caleb Scherer's list (he's pretty much THE storm player right now and his word is effectively gospel)
2 Baral, Chief of Compliance
Spells (41)
3 Lightning Bolt (SB)
3 Opt
4 Serum Visions
4 Sleight of Hand
2 Abrade (SB)
4 Desperate Ritual
3 Grapeshot
4 Manamorphose
1 Peer Through Depths (SB)
4 Pyretic Ritual
1 Unsubstantiate
4 Pieces of the Puzzle (SB)
2 Empty the Warrens (SB)
1 Gifts Ungiven
1 Past in Flames
2 Island
2 Snow-Covered Island
1 Mountain
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Steam vents
4 Shivan Reef
It's very important to remember that in the sideboard games you're not playing against the same deck you just faced, and even though your obvious thought is "jam all the GY hate" it's likely to not work that well. As you can see, the deck largely abandons the route of winning through the graveyard in favor of trying to assemble a large enough number of goblin tokens to win, but the threat of grapeshot/unsub/grapeshot still lingers - often times they'll be content to empty for 5, make 10 tokens and force us to deal with it. Big graveyard hate like Nihil Spellbomb or Leyline of the Void won't phase them, though surgical extraction still can snipe a storm spell we discard to really mess them up.
IN:
-Kambal, Consul of Allocation: This guy (alongside pyromancer) is why they board in five removal spells against us. They simply cannot combo properly with him sitting in play, and the lifegain we get if they try is amazing. Even if they pop a bolt immediately, it's a 4 life point swing which can be relevant. You REALLY are going to want 2 of him, and he's not even expensive at all.
-Engineered Explosives/Anger of the Gods: When storm is on the ETW plan they can go wider than even we can. EE on 0 is the cleanest answer to their play, but it is worth noting that they have 2 empties, plus the one past in flames that can recast them, while we only have 2 sweepers and no way to recur them. They have no way to interact with our hand, but bring in abrade so NEVER deploy an EE unless you're planning to pop it immediately. Anger has the upside of killing (and exiling) their baral, but wiping the token horde is the primary concern. Having a pair is great, but 1 should be manageable.
-Surgical Extraction: As I mentioned above, surgical is probably the one piece of graveyard hate storm actually fears post-board. Leyline and spellbomb they can easily play around, thoughtseize into surgcial they really can't. (You do run the risk of them not boarding properly and keeping Noxious Revival in post-board to countercall extraction, but you should ideally be casting it the same turn you discard so you'll know it's clear.) You'll usually only have 1, but might have a second if other combo decks are locally prevalent.
-Liliana of the Veil: Most lists have abandoned the expensive Lily for her newer counterpart Liliana, the Last Hope as she's relevant in a lot more matchups. This is one of the few where LotV really shines, and if you have her as a tech 1-of in the board she can really apply the pressure. If you don't have her but have a 3rd copy of Collective Brutality sitting in your board, consider that instead for the two relevant modes. (drain 2 + duress)
-Hazoret the Frevent: Often used as a mirror breaker, Hazoret still is a fine card to bring in if you've got it, with 4 toughness (not that it matters due to indestructible) making her Abrade-proof, while also being a mana and card sink to be able to bash through the rest of the damage we need. You would only ever have 1 copy, but bring it in here.
This means you're going to have probably anywhere from 5 to 8 cards to cut, and here's what I'd suggest:
OUT:
Blood Moon: While the current iteration of storm doesn't play fetches and therefore is a bit weak to moon, they run 4 basic islands, plus mnamorphose allows them to pretty easily get out from under moon when they want to combo off. Especially post board they don't even really NEED blue mana to kill you, so it's a bit of a clunker there. Cut them both.
Dreadbore/Terminate: The deck post board will only have 2 creatures plus a swarm of tokens that 1-for-1 answers do poorly against. We have Lightning Bolt and Fatal Push that can deal with Baral, so you should be safe cutting all copies of both cards (If you still feel skittish you can leave in 1 Terminate)
Liliana, The Last Hope: As I said before, LtLH doesn't fare well in this matchup. Her +1 won't kill baral and only 1 goblin, her other two abilities are marginally useful but don't come down quickly enough to interact properly.
Lingering Souls: Souls is very rarely a card we cut, but in all honesty our way to win is to rush to a Bedlam Reveler or Hazoret. Pyromancer is just a target that we can hope to get 1-2 tokens out of through incidental value, and even 4 tokens doesn't do great when our opponent has 10+. Cut up to 3 as space requires.
Hopefully this helps you out!
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Yeah, the issue was I had no clue he had worship since I drew 0 discard spells game 1, and he just won with a 10/10 knight of the reliqaury game 1, only other cards I saw were birds, voice of resurgence and qasali pridemage to kill my turn 3 blood moon on the play (he fetched 2 temple gardens on his first two turns with forest, plains, and pridemage in hand, told me after the match it was specifically to bait out blood moon.) I boarded in spellbombs to neuter KoTR and cut brutalities as I didn't think the drain mode would be relevant. I for sure won't make that mistake next time.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I tried cutting the 2 Fatal Push in my board for 1 Stony Silence and 1 Liliana of the Veil - didn't see either in the tron MU (only time I brought them in) so no word on if that's better or not. Not really a lot to report since the matches were all so lopsided.
Any thoughts?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Honestly I feel leyline of the void is the least damning graveyard hate card to bring in against us, for the sheer fact that it doesn't empty what's already in our yard like Nihil Spellbomb or Rest in Peace do. Sure it can come down turn 0 and we have to play around it which sucks, but I'm not sure we're the kind of deck that many others can afford to aggressively mulligan to 5 or 4 or 3 just to get it because we have so much discard to force them into hoping they curve out from top of the deck. Spellbomb and RIP coming down at the wrong time can be an absolute blowout.
For tron, the pairing of turn 2 stony silence turn 3 blood moon should really keep them off pace long enough to put a clock on them if we're on the play, because it limits their outs to "draw basic forest to nature's claim moon". Is it a great play to hope on? Of course not, but alpine moon just hands them the green mana they need to kill it and that feels even worse.
As an aside, I've seen a number of people grumbling a bit about possibly wanting faithless looting banned in modern because of all the decks that are (ab)using it. Can this deck survive if that's what gets the axe, and if so how could we replace it. (I will note that the consensus, at least among Sally posters, is ancient stirrings is a better/more likely ban)
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Nahiri is a very interesting choice, one that I'm not keen on but it does have three relevant modes. You're fine keeping it.
I do like cutting a manamorphose for a 2nd dreadbore, and the question you're going to have to ask is when you get the 2nd collective brutality is it going to replace the terminate or the manamorphose (Personal opinion, cut terminate until you have the manabase locked, then swap manamorphose for terminate. having 3 hard removal spells is really nice to have.)
I think (well, I hope) that the thinking behind greater gargadon is only saccing creatures that are about to die anyway (chump blockers or things with removal on the stack at them) and let it tick down normally otherwise. And maybe if we 100% know that swinging with a 9/7 wins the game on the spot, sure we can dump everything to drop it in right now and finish.
Still don't like it, but it's not the WORST thing to do with tokesn that are chump blocking.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Blackcleave Cliffs is a REALLY important card for the deck, because it's a pain-free way to be able to play a discard spell AND a faithless looting, but at the same time I can understand not wanting to dump money into it - that said I do not anticipate a reprint anytime soon, and one that does happen will at best knock 20-30% off the price if the fetches are any indication. Dragonskull summit works okay as a sub on the cheap but it does clg up hands, especially if you're playing four of them (two I've found is usually safe). The way I managed it was effectively just picking up one every couple weeks until I had my four, made easier by just not needing any other MTG stuff during that span. If you have none, here's what I'd recommend for a manabase:
3 Wooded Foothills
1 Polluted Delta
3 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
1 Plains
If marsh flats and arid mesa are outside your budget, the other red and black fetches are good replacements in the interim. As you collect the cliffs, I'd remove the fetches first, and once you get two cliffs you can pretty safely sub in summit at that point for the two extra basics.
For your sideboard, this is what I'd put together:
2 Nihil Spellbomb, 1 Surgical Extraction - Without splurging for leyline of the void, this is still a fine graveyard hate suite that ought to thwart off most decks that rely on the yard. Extirpate can work if you'd rather two extract effects and can't get another surgical at your price point, but generally 3 pieces of GY hate will be enough.
3 Molten Rain - It's not exactly a game-winner against tron but can slow them down a bit, especially when you pair it with surgical extraction. But more than that, it gives you extra game against decks with utility lands that can get around blood moon - jund and abzan come to mind. It also can let you try to choke them off by playing blood moon and then killing basics.
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation - This guy is a house right now. Side him in against burn, side him in against storm, side him in against control, side him in against the mirror. He does for us what Eidolon of the great revel does for burn - buys us time to reload because our opponent has to play around it until they can kill it.
2 Wear // Tear - There aren't too many enchantments we care about, but having the option for things like rest in peace, leylines (black and white), and search for azcanta is good to have. Plus, extra artifact destruction on the same card never hurts.
2 Anger of the Gods - without EE this is the next best thing we have. It normally blows up humans, it blows up affinity, it exiles a lot of the troublesome cards in bridgevine/hollow one, and the really important creature (Bedlam reveler) survives it. Just be very careful about trying it againt humans/spirits/CoCo decks if they have any way to flash in a 2-drop.
1 Liliana, the Last Hope - with the caveat that you should really be playing 1 copy in your mainboard and if you aren't it should be there and not here. She's amazing in the current meta, she shines against abzan, the mirror, humans, and generally those decks have a higher metagame share than the decks LotV is good against (Jund, storm, control, tron to a lesser extent) Having a second copy in your board isn't a terrible addition but you REALLY want one in your 60.
2 Removal Flex - Any of the kill spells you listed are justifiable to round out your board. Fatal push very cheaply kills a lot of important creatures even without revolt, and with revolt there's only a handful of dudes it won't kill. Terminate and Dreadbore are very no-frills efficient kill spells that are never bad options if you have worrisome targets. Anguished Unmaking can be a very cute countercall to anything annoying, but what comes to mind immediately is opposing Hazoret, the Fervent which has become accepted as a really good mirror breaker. Darkblast is a cute recurrable removal spell that fills our yard. Hell, even Goblin Rabblemaster is a fine choice to try and increase our clock against decks that want to go long like tron and control. Pretty hard to go wrong here.
Hope this helps!
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I asked them about it, because the board out is pretty clear on my SB guide. Both of them had a similar response: Since we both know the "correct" play is to cut blood moon, we aren't likely to play around blood moon, which means there is value in surprising our opponent with it (and since we cut half our discard suite post-board it's less likely we can scout it out in advance). Leaving a singleton moon post-board is a next-level play that can steal a win if our opponent is napping and I can respect that, but it's a little too cute for my liking.
In any case, here's what I'm up to now:
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Plains
Creatures (8)
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
2 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Thoughtseize
1 Dreadbore
2 Terminate
2 Collective Brutality
2 Blood Moon
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Lingering Souls
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Molten Rain
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Fatal Push
1 Hazoret, the Fervent
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Wear // Tear
1 Stony Silence
1 Collective Brutality
The maindeck is more or less set, but the board seems like it'll be in a constant flux for the following reasons:
Surgical Extraction <--> Nihil Spellbomb: Some decks have key cards that need to be ripped out of their deck, and some cards just need their yard emptied. I have a 1-2 split in favor of spellbomb right now, and if I had the money the smart play would just be to play 3x Leyline of the Void, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Wear // Tear <--> Stony Silence: There aren't many enchantments we actually want to kill unless we're facing bogles, but having two cards to kill things like a leyline of sanctity or rest in peace means we have a better chance of digging it up when they do hit. Meanwhile stony silence locks up KCI as well as anything trying to play aether vial, and has incremental advantage against affinity (which we should be solid against already, but why pass it up?)
Fatal Push <--> Extra copies of other SB cards: Against jund and abzan and humans, I feel like I need to add more kill spells to be able to keep up. While EE might be good against them in certain situations it's easy to play around, whereas push just picks off dudes. On the other hand, having access to a 4th piece of GY hate, or a 2nd wear//tear PLUS having stony silence, or a 3rd molten rain all seem like useful cards to be packing.
If anyone's got suggestions on that, I'd love to hear them.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Some thoughts:
-I’m 100% sold on the maindeck basic plains. Both mirror matches put me on not having it and kept a blood moon in post-board to lock me out of Kambal, plus it lets me dodge ghost quarter as well.
-EE was only boarded in once, for one mirror game.(got two for 70 each on site) It might just be bad in the local meta though, seems it only is good vs. humans and elves?
-Lily the last hope was 100% busted, very glad I made the switch.
-I know I probably should cut the two fatal pushes in the board for a stony silence and a 3rd molten rain but I feel like push is so good. Thoughts?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
There's a lot of pros that play it as a 1-of because it enables some really neat tech, namely being able to cast white spells under blood moon without a basic plains, but also being able to cast both push and terminate with only 1 swamp. It's a free token for pyromancer, and it replaces itself. It's really solid.
That said, I don't play it in my list, I personally think (at least in my meta) I need the extra removal in a 2nd copy of terminate. If I cut Lily I could try it as a 1-of, but honestly having access to a 5th hard removal spell has made me feel safer about using one on a must-kill threat early on.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
I never saw bauble from the guy that had the flayer. I do remember that he questioned why I boarded in Wear // Tear, it was because I expected leyline of the void form his board. He said he plays Nihil spellbomb because it's an artifact for delirium.
I will admit that hide//seek is a clean answer to wurmcoil engine, but that's not really what we're wanting in artifact/enchantment hate, and with fetches in the format it's only a matter of time before they turn it live again.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
In the 5 games I found blood moon one time, after they'd already fetched out 4 basics. I know adding a third isn't the answer but it seems to only ever show up in the matches where it's irrelevant.
One was probably abzan traverse, I never saw Traverse the Ulvenwald but did see a grim flayer. The other was closer to abzan superfriends with LotV, Gideon, Ally of Zendikar, and Sorin, Solemn Visitor alongside birds of paradise to ramp into them, plus the usual suite of discard and rhinos and goyfs and removal. Both times after board I just had no way to interact with them and they 1-for-1 me to death.
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
There's really no other way to do it. KCI is one of those decks that's just a check on the format. Do you have graveyard hate? If so you can win, if not then you lose. There's no other way to attack them other than "kill their lynchpin artifacts and surgical them out of the yard so they can't be recurred".
In any case I went 1-4 tonight. Beat storm handily, then lost twice to burn and twice to abzan. Burn's just a complete mess, 2 CB and 2 Kambal aren't enough but I can't think of anything else that could tip the scales that much.
Abzan was just a grind that was so tilt-inducing at the end it killed any thoughts I had at playing in the SCGOpen tomorrow. Siege Rhino is next to impossible to stop, bedlam reveler felt dead super often between pulse, path, Liliana's -2 and goyfs; and when I cut all my discard like the sideboard guide says, they kept all theirs in and I was very quickly stuck in topdeck mode facing down a pair of 4/5s and a lily ready to ult while I only have 3 lands and nothing in my graveyard to flash back.
what am I missing?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP
Also, one local had been playing Goblin Chainwhirler as a 1-of in the board because in his words, "F*** the mirror match". He's also running 3 lightning helix, with 0 Liliana mainboard (2 veil 1 last hope in the board) 0 manamorphose and 19 land (2 sacred foundry 1 plains to support it) I can't justify it, but it's interesting to think about.
Also I feel like I board out blood moon too often - I felt like I had to cut it against both burn (since i bring in all my white spells and can't cast them under BM) and Jund (molten rain answers their manlands and doesn't die to Maelstrom Pulse/Abrupt Decay.) What matchups should I be really thinking about cutting moon, and what matchups should I force myself to cut other things?
Currently Playing:
GBStandard - Golgari Safari MidrangeBG
RBWModern - Mardu PyromancerWBR
RLegacy - Good Old Fashioned BurnR
Clan Contest 3 Mafia - Mafia Co-MVP