Interaction is low but in colourless the options are very limited. There are options to add more colourless removal but none at instant speed.
Everything tends to need to sit on the table and opponents can see them coming, cards like brittle effigy.
It's very different to most decks as it doesn't really conform to the usual rules of deck building with an even spread of removal and making sure you have instant speed options.
Everything you have is there and on the table for your opponents to see.
Are you playing the full deck list or did you make some changes?
Oh, you like to play mean!
Then run painter's servant as its now unbanned.
With servant on the field you play ugin, the spirit dragon, use his -X ability having X=0 and wave goodbye to every land on the table.
Good for us as the deck only generates maybe a third of its mana from land. Your opponents generally need all their lands.
Karn synergies are cool but I've found a lot of the cards that work really well with him don't work as well with the rest of what this build is doing. There's no reason you can't do it though.
BTW,id you're looking to run cards likeliquimetal coating you don't want to cut rings of brighthearth. Double value!
It that Betrays is a good card but a lot of mana for something that becauses enemy number one on the table. If it gets removed you don't get it back like you do Kozilek and it sets you back a bit.
I personally choose not to run it because I think Kozilek plus the combos are injury enough to my opponents, I don't want to be stealing their stuff as well. I hate having theft played on me so tend not to do it to others
Hey,
Could be a bit tricky as a lot of cards serve dual purpose.
Also if you play the deck a lot you'll stumble in accidental infinite that involve a fair few pieces.
The main culprit for a couple combos is staff of domination. If it didn't combo with other cards to generate some kind of infinite loop I wouldn't run it. There's your first cut.
Rings of brighthearth is another one that causes infinite loops by paying the 2. I don't however recommend you cut it.
Its an absolute powerhouse with the amount of activated abilities there are. You'd be missing out on a ton of value by not running it so reluctant for tell you to take it out.
The most comman combo with Rings is the basalt monolith combo.
You could remove basalt but it's also a really good card to push into a kozilek cast.
Because the combo is so well known you can't even field the two and not generate infinite mana because anyone can see its there and will likely point it out.
paradox engine and erratic portal have now both been cut due to the banning, I've just not updated the Primer to show the changes yet. I've switched them out for mystic forge and Manifold key.
However, mystic forge brings a whole new infinite combo with it that's realively easy to pull off so you may wish to avoid it but again, outside of the combo the value you'd be missing would be massive.
A lot of the less abvious combos the deck has are easy to just ignore. Simply don't use them to generate infinite and you won't draw attention to them.
Welcome to the forum btw!
Your timing's a little bad though as this site is due to close any day now.
The team have launched a new site: www.mtgnexus.com where I'm pretty sure everyone's going too.
Just in case you wonder why everything dissappears in a few days!
That forge is awesome!
Add that into an infinite untap loop and you can play your whole deck.
Infinite mana and sensei's divining top you can sent the top to the top of the deck every time you hit a land, then play top off for the 1.
The problem I've got is I now have no idea what to take out to put the two new ones in. I honestly only thought I'd need to make one space this whole set!
Basically a second Voltaic Key with a cheaper Rogue’s Passage strapped to it.
This one’s definitely going in.
It can't be used for infinites in the same way voltaic key can be as it says 'another target artifact' but still works to double up activations of any rock that taps for 2 or more to be mana positive.
I like it, but I'm not sure what land I can spare to get it into the deck.
Definitely don't want to be cutting back on a manland due the limited blockers in the deck... I'm not sure I can fit it in.
Not updated any posts because Modern Horizons was a bit lacking on decent artifacts unless you're into your Sword of something and something.
Shame. On to M20!
Is there a reason you haven't included Karn, the Great Creator in your list? It seems extremely good early for cutting out other players Sol Rings, Mana Vaults, Grim Monoliths, etc? You could then include Mycosynth Lattice for multiple win cons. Turn off everyone else's lands with Karn out, wipe everyone else's permanents with Darksteel Forge/Nev's Disk.
I’ve tested Karn 3.0 both using a sideboard to find mycosynth lattice and having the lattic in the 99.
The problem is the deck only runs a handful of creatures he’s very difficult to keep alive.
With the other three walkers I run, I play them, use an ability (which is removal) and can’t then bank on them sticking around. If they live (which is never),great. If the die (they always die), so be it.
For Karn to be of any use he has to be protected. All that happens with the Karn/lattice combo is every player for a full rotation simply attacks Karn to death and the combo is ended. If you can’t tap your llanowar elves for mana what do you do with it? Smash it into Karn.
I’m not saying he’s a bad card and in the right deck it’s a table scoop but to run him I need to add so many more blockers it just becomes about trying to get one fragile combo to take.
I also used to run mycosynth lattice for a while but found it to underperform somewhat so needed up removing it. Without Karn out and only a small number of ways to tutor For Karn, it’ll just be a dead card again
I didn't want to remove any of the existing removal for Newgin because he can't hit colourless permanents.
If I run out of gas I can use cards like duplicant to remove my own Kozilek for recast and another four cards.
The reason I took out Azor's gateway was because Ugin can kind of filter it the same way, but he temporarily exiles the card you need, rather than a card you don't. Although it hurt to remove a 2 drop for a 6 drop!
I know what you mean about the prerelease hype, the reason I got it now rather than when the hype went down was because I had budget for it now and knew later I'd be skint!
Yeah, I did see that rule 13 was a thing.
Currently working on testing the new cards.
Even though my play group allow sideboards I don't think I'm going to run the new Karn.
With the small number of creatures in the deck there's no way he could survive a rotation of the table and he'd just be wasted.
Getting back an exiled card would be good after a graveyard exile and he's got nice synergy with semblance anvil for those who run it but you can't count on both of them up at the same time.
I don't run lattice at the moment and I don't think I'm going to add the two due to the combo not sticking during combat. He's too fragile.
I'm testing ugin, the ineffable, blast zone and emergence zone.
They're all going to go into the deck ultimately but it's more about removing the right card than adding them!
I've been hammering Kdistortion pretty hard recently in the 99 and manage over the course of 2 rotations to counter off 11 spells that would have cost me the win. He's amazing but I much prefer the burthcer in the command zone.
I've got 14 other decks that I have and work on. This one's pretty much at its peak in terms of cards available and with the limited pool not a lot turns my head with the new releases.
However, the new Ugin, the Ineffable is the whole package.
Makes himself blockers, draws cards, ramps and removes. Definitely going into the deck in place of Azor's gateway for testing... But its a really versatile 6 drop removal spell. If it hangs about after the removal it's just a bonus!
fractured powerstone is fine. thought vessel's main use is being a 2 for 1 rock. The hand size ability is just a bonus. tabernacle is amazing. I've tested it out and it's insanely good in this deck because of the low number of creatures. The only reason it's not in the deck is because I don't own one (and probably never will). I've got a pretty convincing proxy but I don't like playing proxies long term. Makes me feel dirty when the rest of the deck is foiled!
Butcher will get removed regularly and doesn't have the inbuilt protection that distortion has but he can draw harder through multiple casts.
Just keep up the tempo until they can't remove him anymore.
List looks good. Are you coming over to the butcher permanently?
Interaction is low but in colourless the options are very limited. There are options to add more colourless removal but none at instant speed.
Everything tends to need to sit on the table and opponents can see them coming, cards like brittle effigy.
It's very different to most decks as it doesn't really conform to the usual rules of deck building with an even spread of removal and making sure you have instant speed options.
Everything you have is there and on the table for your opponents to see.
Are you playing the full deck list or did you make some changes?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
There are some expensive cards in there, using real cards and turning them into something else is genius!
Did you decide what you're switching out and in for a Karn package?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Then run painter's servant as its now unbanned.
With servant on the field you play ugin, the spirit dragon, use his -X ability having X=0 and wave goodbye to every land on the table.
Good for us as the deck only generates maybe a third of its mana from land. Your opponents generally need all their lands.
Karn synergies are cool but I've found a lot of the cards that work really well with him don't work as well with the rest of what this build is doing. There's no reason you can't do it though.
BTW,id you're looking to run cards likeliquimetal coating you don't want to cut rings of brighthearth. Double value!
It that Betrays is a good card but a lot of mana for something that becauses enemy number one on the table. If it gets removed you don't get it back like you do Kozilek and it sets you back a bit.
I personally choose not to run it because I think Kozilek plus the combos are injury enough to my opponents, I don't want to be stealing their stuff as well. I hate having theft played on me so tend not to do it to others
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Could be a bit tricky as a lot of cards serve dual purpose.
Also if you play the deck a lot you'll stumble in accidental infinite that involve a fair few pieces.
The main culprit for a couple combos is staff of domination. If it didn't combo with other cards to generate some kind of infinite loop I wouldn't run it. There's your first cut.
Rings of brighthearth is another one that causes infinite loops by paying the 2. I don't however recommend you cut it.
Its an absolute powerhouse with the amount of activated abilities there are. You'd be missing out on a ton of value by not running it so reluctant for tell you to take it out.
The most comman combo with Rings is the basalt monolith combo.
You could remove basalt but it's also a really good card to push into a kozilek cast.
Because the combo is so well known you can't even field the two and not generate infinite mana because anyone can see its there and will likely point it out.
paradox engine and erratic portal have now both been cut due to the banning, I've just not updated the Primer to show the changes yet. I've switched them out for mystic forge and Manifold key.
However, mystic forge brings a whole new infinite combo with it that's realively easy to pull off so you may wish to avoid it but again, outside of the combo the value you'd be missing would be massive.
A lot of the less abvious combos the deck has are easy to just ignore. Simply don't use them to generate infinite and you won't draw attention to them.
What cards were you thinking of adding?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
I saw this coming, smelt it in the water!
Easy cut with erratic portal for Manifold key as well as it no longer combos with anything
Welcome to the forum btw!
Your timing's a little bad though as this site is due to close any day now.
The team have launched a new site: www.mtgnexus.com where I'm pretty sure everyone's going too.
Just in case you wonder why everything dissappears in a few days!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Add that into an infinite untap loop and you can play your whole deck.
Infinite mana and sensei's divining top you can sent the top to the top of the deck every time you hit a land, then play top off for the 1.
The problem I've got is I now have no idea what to take out to put the two new ones in. I honestly only thought I'd need to make one space this whole set!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Basically a second Voltaic Key with a cheaper Rogue’s Passage strapped to it.
This one’s definitely going in.
It can't be used for infinites in the same way voltaic key can be as it says 'another target artifact' but still works to double up activations of any rock that taps for 2 or more to be mana positive.
Now to work out what to take out!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
I like it, but I'm not sure what land I can spare to get it into the deck.
Definitely don't want to be cutting back on a manland due the limited blockers in the deck... I'm not sure I can fit it in.
Not updated any posts because Modern Horizons was a bit lacking on decent artifacts unless you're into your Sword of something and something.
Shame. On to M20!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
I’ve tested Karn 3.0 both using a sideboard to find mycosynth lattice and having the lattic in the 99.
The problem is the deck only runs a handful of creatures he’s very difficult to keep alive.
With the other three walkers I run, I play them, use an ability (which is removal) and can’t then bank on them sticking around. If they live (which is never),great. If the die (they always die), so be it.
For Karn to be of any use he has to be protected. All that happens with the Karn/lattice combo is every player for a full rotation simply attacks Karn to death and the combo is ended. If you can’t tap your llanowar elves for mana what do you do with it? Smash it into Karn.
I’m not saying he’s a bad card and in the right deck it’s a table scoop but to run him I need to add so many more blockers it just becomes about trying to get one fragile combo to take.
I also used to run mycosynth lattice for a while but found it to underperform somewhat so needed up removing it. Without Karn out and only a small number of ways to tutor For Karn, it’ll just be a dead card again
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
If I run out of gas I can use cards like duplicant to remove my own Kozilek for recast and another four cards.
The reason I took out Azor's gateway was because Ugin can kind of filter it the same way, but he temporarily exiles the card you need, rather than a card you don't. Although it hurt to remove a 2 drop for a 6 drop!
I know what you mean about the prerelease hype, the reason I got it now rather than when the hype went down was because I had budget for it now and knew later I'd be skint!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
In:
ugin, the ineffable
emergence zone
blast zone
Out:
Azor's gateway
tectonic edge
wastes
Details in changelog and card selection
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Currently working on testing the new cards.
Even though my play group allow sideboards I don't think I'm going to run the new Karn.
With the small number of creatures in the deck there's no way he could survive a rotation of the table and he'd just be wasted.
Getting back an exiled card would be good after a graveyard exile and he's got nice synergy with semblance anvil for those who run it but you can't count on both of them up at the same time.
I don't run lattice at the moment and I don't think I'm going to add the two due to the combo not sticking during combat. He's too fragile.
I'm testing ugin, the ineffable, blast zone and emergence zone.
They're all going to go into the deck ultimately but it's more about removing the right card than adding them!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
Shame about it entering with a charge counter on it.
Otherwise it would be 3t destroy all tokens.
thespian's stage will handle that I guess but its a bit slow having to copy it then activate it the next turn.
This might be the best set for us since Kaladesh!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
I've got 14 other decks that I have and work on. This one's pretty much at its peak in terms of cards available and with the limited pool not a lot turns my head with the new releases.
However, the new Ugin, the Ineffable is the whole package.
Makes himself blockers, draws cards, ramps and removes. Definitely going into the deck in place of Azor's gateway for testing... But its a really versatile 6 drop removal spell. If it hangs about after the removal it's just a bonus!
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR
tabernacle is amazing. I've tested it out and it's insanely good in this deck because of the low number of creatures. The only reason it's not in the deck is because I don't own one (and probably never will). I've got a pretty convincing proxy but I don't like playing proxies long term. Makes me feel dirty when the rest of the deck is foiled!
Butcher will get removed regularly and doesn't have the inbuilt protection that distortion has but he can draw harder through multiple casts.
Just keep up the tempo until they can't remove him anymore.
List looks good. Are you coming over to the butcher permanently?
EDH:
[Primer]C Kozilek, Butcher of Truth C
RGNikya of the Old WaysGR