I think there's a few things that will be problematic with the idea of a modern only product, though. If it is a randomized booster, than it is usually made with draft in mind, hence any booster pack product they make for modern is effectively a masters set. If the product is a preconstructed one, how expensive would they have to make it to include notable cards like Cavern of Souls, Liliana of the Veil, and other heavy hitters? I could see them making a modern oriented constructed offering, but it's not going to include the cards people really need to complete their decks. Most people are stuck on the most expensive pieces in modern, not the optional niche cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
The only barrier I see to this idea of a conspiracy or battlebond set that is modern focused is the business itself. The idea of duel decks was pretty good hypothetically, but because of the market conditions resulting in wide spread arbitrage and scalping, they ended up creating worse and worse versions of it as time went on. Honestly, I blame scalping and arbitrage for why we got to where we are, since the local game stores seem to be suffering a slow heat death that Blockbuster and the video rental industry went through. It's sort of on a life support system out of necessity right now, as there is no way the card games industry or Roleplaying Game industry could survive without the stores.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Going by the new click bait product lines WoTC is releasing, I'd imagine that the set will have a mix of standard legal cards, current modern cards, and a few new cards or legacy cards they want to bring into modern. They are very big on making sure standard is as dirt cheap as possible, which is probably going to tank a few unsuspecting LGS locations. Ghalta just got reprinted again, so that makes a promo, a standard set, a reprint in spell slingers, and now a reprint in the new Game Nights box. Basically, it's this years version of the Explorers of Ixalan thing that all the stores and distributors are still stuck with like the old challenger decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
These Modern... Messiah? Maestro? packs will be $10 just like before because there's a precedent that they can charge that much. Modern is one of wizards top formats and they would want to maximize any value they can get out of it.
Also having cards like Counterspell potentially be in the set seems a little loose. I hope that I'm wrong but, if they wanted to reprint things to make them legal for modern... Why wouldn't they just put it in a Modern Masters set?
I think the chance for cards designed specifically for modern is a cool idea, plus if this product happens, modern will be essentially on sale for a while.
I'm optimistic to see what this product looks like if it is real
Modern masters was a reprint only set. The reason they charged 10 dollars a pack was because of the fact that the value of the contents was known. It's hard to explain this in detail, but they would not sell 10 dollar packs if half the cards are new to modern, or just new period.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Any entirely new cards or reprints of cards that aren't currently Modern legal have solid chances of establishing or increasing equity for anything that ends up a format staple. Toss in a number of in-demand reprints ala the Modern Masters sets to guarantee a baseline and you'd have a real recipe for success. From a business standpoint, I'm actually surprised Wizards hasn't done this already.
I believe the problem is just convincing company management that it is worth it to try and sell to the Living Card Game long term players. Even though the cards used in modern and legacy are worth a lot on the second hand market, they also don't sell as fast as a new card since many players already in modern have the cards they need to play. It costs WoTC the same amount of money to print an 80 dollar card as a 10 cent card, but when doing the print runs it probably is cheaper to produce an extremely large quantity of a product and sell it at a lower price than print less of a product and sell it higher. There's likely a baseline cost to the printing process as far as electricity, ink, materials, packing, etc, are concerned.
Under those conditions, I can see how it would make sense to keep making standard sets and new cards vs trying to reprint older cards.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'd be okay with it as long as the price was $6.99 or less for a pack and it had cards equivalent more to the original Modern Masters as opposed to the more recent Iconic and Masters 25.
Would be a way for Wizards to try to dig into Modern players pockets that won't buy Standard packs/boxes.
Sounds good on paper but I don't have any faith that Wizards will execute it correctly. On top of that the product needs to be out NOW, not in 2 years as the product hits the shelves.
I'm suspecting if they release a product for modern like Battlebond or Conspiracy, it will be the going rate of current standard booster packs. It's mostly because they probably will do the card selection similar to the ratio we saw in core 2019. So probably half of it reprints and the other half new cards. It does mean fewer reprints per set, but it also means that it should be easier to get the cards from the set due to the box price being lower.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
They got a lot of reasons to go for a modern booster pack product to introduce new cards to modern. Not the least of which is the attempt to combat the couterfits running amok due to the reserved list. Even existing modern legal cards are getting heavily bootlegged and pawned off to unsuspecting players, and as prices rise, so too does the potential profit from selling fake cards. It also lets them bring cards from legacy that can make modern more resilient to new cards entering the pool. Force of Will is practically useless in modern at the moment, since the game is designed around not allowing anyone to win before turn 4. However, if they print a strong combo piece, having FoW in modern would mitigate a lot of it's teeth.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I can't think of a single card that is neccesary in modern but can't be introduced to standard. Hatecards like back to basics you don't want in modern anyway, those are crappy design. Other generic strong cards which might be interesting like baleful strix or whatever can be introduced to standard just fine, standard has had over the top strong cards plenty of times. Just give that color combination less strength elsewhere so it doesn't become a dominant deck. Many of these legacy staples, for example brainstorm, aren't even strong in standard anyway.
Different people see different things as "neccesary to modern". Its pretty hard to argue with someone who leaves themselves that large a loophole overall tbh but im an optimist so i'll try anyway.
I firmly believe that the answer Modern badly needs is much stronger land hate. It seems to me that there are a large number of decks that people seem to be grumpy about and are very difficult to counter that revolve around lands. See Tron, Humans etc and in the past Eldrazi, Valakut, Infect and Affinity. This seems like a very obvious line of play as countering lands is really limited/expensive in Modern and a new deck abusing a land (or more) making a name for itself has been a regular Modern occurance for a very long time.
To that note I firmly believe "Wasteland" as necessary to stopping this recurring trend and enabling "fair" decks to fight back more effectively. As a bonus, a good chunk of the banlist is lands too. With much more decent hate some of those could definitely come off.
Good luck getting good land hate through standard.
It's not that people see different things are needed for modern as much as everyone sees the same thing but from different angles. What has happened to modern, legacy, and standard is the problem of reasonable access. Wizards of the Coast has long since shifted away from supported constructed formats because they want people to buy new cards at every set. The secondary market kind of built itself as a reaction to wizards of the coast changing their support structure, but much like other businesses that are over saturated, the singles market has turn to running on razor thin margins and is showing just how bad the print policies are at the company. There's basically no mystery why people leave MtG and go play Force of Will, Warhammer, or other hobby games that give more per dollar and have active communities as well.
The only way WoTC is going to revive this game to RTR heights is to do a massive shift in their business model. It's not just reprinting cards, it's capping the price on the cards so they don't go to 50+ dollars in the formats that people are playing. Formats should not be differentiated on price and be broken, under managed nightmares: They should be defined by gameplay.
Edit: And if someone wants to be the guy who says "They print commander! They support constructed! Also they printed Challenger decks!" That is not the support constructed needs. The first was a cash in on what turned out to be a popular format from a business perspective. The latter was a desperate reactionary attempt to save the titanic when two thirds of the ship is already under water.
Support for constructed would be a booster pack product with 36 packs, 5 cards per pack, that contains reprints and new cards specifically designed with constructed in mind. Probably 3 uncommon and 2 rare with an optional mythic, sold at 120 msrp. They get bonus points if they have full art foils of the cards so that there is one in every 5 packs. Even as a modern player I'd buy packs if there is a zero loss proposition from purchasing the packs. At worse, you get some card for a deck that you aren't playing and can actively trade it for something you do need. Kind of like how a trading card game is supposed to work.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
So you want humans to get even better? Containment priest and Sanctum prelate would just be too much imho. Cards do not belong in modern. When blood moon isn't good enough...Back to basics. Not a chance they make this modern legal.
I'd love to add smokestack to that but that card is pure unfun so it's unlikely haha!
Frankly a ton of commons and uncommons would help spice up the format in fun and new ways.
You keep thinking humans is good when it relies on creatures 100% to operate thanks to the mana. I love playing creature decks because I like blowing stuff up and Finding increasingly creative ways to spread my special form of love. Back to basics gives me even more ways to crush these rainbow heretics to the ground.
... I'm fun at the gaming table?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Getting cards like Baleful Strix is a great idea, but if you get an upgrade of baleful strix every year and your new toy sits there useless after 6 months, it defeats the purpose of a non rotating format. Another channel of introducing cards into the format is absolutely wonderful, as long as they get the balance right, and don't take it too far.
Card selection and deck choices already shift and change with time and there is a limit to the power level they print at each CMC. The chances of a truly "better" Baleful Strix is basically nil, because that card is the apex of power for that kind of ability, to the point that they have never printed it in a standard legal set. A common strategy for designing a long running game is to make cards that feel fair, and once you've zoned in on the point where things feel like they might be bordering on being too good and too weak, you back down and start designing between the two. That's why there are so many variations of 2 and 3 damage burn spells, yet none are truly at Lightning Bolt power level.
Modern is a format dominated by the apex of each tier, so if they do print a better version of something, it will eventually cap out and the format becomes stable. Worrying about power creep is kind of silly in this regard for modern. Plus, if they did print something truly grotesque like another Deathrite Shaman it would be banned pretty fast.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Glad to see wizards paying attention to us modern players.
But I am skeptic as to which direction they are going into. Let's think for a sec, if they introduce such a booster set, it needs to differ from modern masters, which is modern legal reprints only. So there are two kind of cards it needs to introduce, in addition to modern legal reprints, those are 1. non-modern legal reprints, and 2. newly designed modern specific cards. If neither of those cards printed are more powerful than the current modern available card pool, the product simply won't move. However, if they start introducing increasingly powerful cards through modern legal booster sets that effectively power creep modern, it'll turn modern into a non-rotating standard, which is very very dangerous.
If they go the route of creating modern only booster pack products I'm not sure what that will mean for modern in other respects, or if it will even be the same format the players envisioned. The thing is, with commander it is a casual format, so as long as all the cards fit into the design space and limitations they put on power for each point of the curve it can go in the set. That's why commander always seems to get really insanely powerful cards that often feed into infinite combo engines or do crazy things like blink your entire board out of existence. Modern can never be on such a loose leash.
If wizards starts making a modern specific product that implies much more scrutiny than they currently employ. I do think it would help a lot on accessibility, though. It took me close to four years to finally scrounge up enough money to afford an abzan fetchland mana-base and the inescapable fact of modern is that that people are limited by the bread and butter of the format as far as cost. Wizards made a horrible mistake making Noble Heirarch, Snapcaster Mage, Cavern of Souls, and other boring, but necessary cards mythic. They did it because it made stores confident in the boxes selling, but that confidence came from the wrong kinds of player needs and motivations.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm just hoping they aren't just asking if people want modern masters back. I absolutely hope they never bring that back and stick to normal priced booster boxes. Those 240 msrp box sets were a bad plan from the start and they should have just put more value into the standard sets or done a spring set in lieu of conspiracy, battlebond, etc.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
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1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Modern masters was a reprint only set. The reason they charged 10 dollars a pack was because of the fact that the value of the contents was known. It's hard to explain this in detail, but they would not sell 10 dollar packs if half the cards are new to modern, or just new period.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I believe the problem is just convincing company management that it is worth it to try and sell to the Living Card Game long term players. Even though the cards used in modern and legacy are worth a lot on the second hand market, they also don't sell as fast as a new card since many players already in modern have the cards they need to play. It costs WoTC the same amount of money to print an 80 dollar card as a 10 cent card, but when doing the print runs it probably is cheaper to produce an extremely large quantity of a product and sell it at a lower price than print less of a product and sell it higher. There's likely a baseline cost to the printing process as far as electricity, ink, materials, packing, etc, are concerned.
Under those conditions, I can see how it would make sense to keep making standard sets and new cards vs trying to reprint older cards.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
I'm suspecting if they release a product for modern like Battlebond or Conspiracy, it will be the going rate of current standard booster packs. It's mostly because they probably will do the card selection similar to the ratio we saw in core 2019. So probably half of it reprints and the other half new cards. It does mean fewer reprints per set, but it also means that it should be easier to get the cards from the set due to the box price being lower.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
It's not that people see different things are needed for modern as much as everyone sees the same thing but from different angles. What has happened to modern, legacy, and standard is the problem of reasonable access. Wizards of the Coast has long since shifted away from supported constructed formats because they want people to buy new cards at every set. The secondary market kind of built itself as a reaction to wizards of the coast changing their support structure, but much like other businesses that are over saturated, the singles market has turn to running on razor thin margins and is showing just how bad the print policies are at the company. There's basically no mystery why people leave MtG and go play Force of Will, Warhammer, or other hobby games that give more per dollar and have active communities as well.
The only way WoTC is going to revive this game to RTR heights is to do a massive shift in their business model. It's not just reprinting cards, it's capping the price on the cards so they don't go to 50+ dollars in the formats that people are playing. Formats should not be differentiated on price and be broken, under managed nightmares: They should be defined by gameplay.
Edit: And if someone wants to be the guy who says "They print commander! They support constructed! Also they printed Challenger decks!" That is not the support constructed needs. The first was a cash in on what turned out to be a popular format from a business perspective. The latter was a desperate reactionary attempt to save the titanic when two thirds of the ship is already under water.
Support for constructed would be a booster pack product with 36 packs, 5 cards per pack, that contains reprints and new cards specifically designed with constructed in mind. Probably 3 uncommon and 2 rare with an optional mythic, sold at 120 msrp. They get bonus points if they have full art foils of the cards so that there is one in every 5 packs. Even as a modern player I'd buy packs if there is a zero loss proposition from purchasing the packs. At worse, you get some card for a deck that you aren't playing and can actively trade it for something you do need. Kind of like how a trading card game is supposed to work.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
You keep thinking humans is good when it relies on creatures 100% to operate thanks to the mana. I love playing creature decks because I like blowing stuff up and Finding increasingly creative ways to spread my special form of love. Back to basics gives me even more ways to crush these rainbow heretics to the ground.
... I'm fun at the gaming table?
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Also Brightling, because I love the artwork and the abilities are amazing on it.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Card selection and deck choices already shift and change with time and there is a limit to the power level they print at each CMC. The chances of a truly "better" Baleful Strix is basically nil, because that card is the apex of power for that kind of ability, to the point that they have never printed it in a standard legal set. A common strategy for designing a long running game is to make cards that feel fair, and once you've zoned in on the point where things feel like they might be bordering on being too good and too weak, you back down and start designing between the two. That's why there are so many variations of 2 and 3 damage burn spells, yet none are truly at Lightning Bolt power level.
Modern is a format dominated by the apex of each tier, so if they do print a better version of something, it will eventually cap out and the format becomes stable. Worrying about power creep is kind of silly in this regard for modern. Plus, if they did print something truly grotesque like another Deathrite Shaman it would be banned pretty fast.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
Agreed 100%. Having a price decrease doesn't mean the card got Obsoleted as much as there is an actual viable alternative that works. Also, I love the idea of modern only sets since it means we finally could get things like Counter Spell, Baleful Strix, Sanctum Prelate, Selvala, Heart of the Wilds, Shardless Agent, etc.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
If they go the route of creating modern only booster pack products I'm not sure what that will mean for modern in other respects, or if it will even be the same format the players envisioned. The thing is, with commander it is a casual format, so as long as all the cards fit into the design space and limitations they put on power for each point of the curve it can go in the set. That's why commander always seems to get really insanely powerful cards that often feed into infinite combo engines or do crazy things like blink your entire board out of existence. Modern can never be on such a loose leash.
If wizards starts making a modern specific product that implies much more scrutiny than they currently employ. I do think it would help a lot on accessibility, though. It took me close to four years to finally scrounge up enough money to afford an abzan fetchland mana-base and the inescapable fact of modern is that that people are limited by the bread and butter of the format as far as cost. Wizards made a horrible mistake making Noble Heirarch, Snapcaster Mage, Cavern of Souls, and other boring, but necessary cards mythic. They did it because it made stores confident in the boxes selling, but that confidence came from the wrong kinds of player needs and motivations.
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!
1. (Ravnica Allegiance): You can't keep a good esper control deck down... Or Wilderness Reclamation... or Gates...
2. (War of the Spark): Guys, I know what we need! We need a cycle of really idiotic flavor text victory cards! Jace's Triumph...
3. (War of the Spark): Lets make the format with control have even more control!