yeah if they reprint fetches at rare, plus whatever juicy stuff, in 4 dollar packs it is going to sell like hotcakes. sell so well in fact, that id expect the product and whatever charms it holds as some cool and wacky way to play to be overlooked.
i agree its hard not to assume they arent printing direct-to-modern. however you have to note that at no point did they say it was designed specifically for modern. that is a leap you have to take with a bit of optimism. if you arent sure what im talking about its like battlebond and edh. battlebond was like weird 2hg shennanigans, but the product was partially aimed at edh. in that sense, it is the format getting the 'impact'.
as for what about it would be exciting or attractive, that is where the split in the camps happens. if you believe that high costing modern staples being reprinted in something NOT a premium costed set is sufficient to match their statements, then its a possibility. if you dont think so, then it isnt; making the only reasonable conclusion a non standard set being deemed modern legal.
as mentioned in my previous post, i dont think getting cheap fetches or whatever else counts. however im jaded enough to believe that wizards would believe it is. like somehow decks costing 700 instead of a 1000 is going to offset wizards possibly cutting back on modern tournaments, its relevancy in the mythic championship series, and instead pushing a new non-rotating format. im not saying that is going to happen, rather just pointing out how different those two things are.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
given its wizards we are talking about here, im expecting just a set that is related to modern insomuch as it has value reprints.
even with this pretty low expectation, id still be disappointed if it turns out to be true. mostly because it means those statements by maro and blake were extremely misleading. in that initial 'fact/fiction' interview where the announcement was spoiled the topic was about modern players being worried and uncertain about their format of choice being relegated to irrelevancy in the face of arena and its upcoming nonrotating format. in that context card availability is irrelevant, we already know they are shifting the load from the masters sets onto ancillary products. dont try to prop it up as some show of support. reprint fetches? guess they must be supporting legacy too!
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
yeah when i watched the interview myself i immediately noticed how it was just a statement of reality. its a tricky set to make and requires serious design and testing time. you can assume that this difficulty has kept it off the table, or that its something for the distant future. however its just that, an assumption.
now its hard to assume that the product is anything but something that injects cards into modern that werent previously there. its now confirmed to be one of the Innovation Sets, of which were previously Conspiracy and Battlebond. if they arent designing new cards specifically for it, and are constrained to modern reprints; then how is it any different than a rebranding of modern masters.
the only explanation would be a cheap modern masters, and its 'impact' that people would like is how cheap some cards get.
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i agree that their reasons for creating such a product might not be entirely altruistic towards players. for instance, as was seen in the masters line of products, it was difficult to sustain because the 'reprint equity' of high value cards is eventually used up. a way around this is to artificially create new reprint targets down the line. we have seen it in legacy with commander set cards like true name nemesis and leovold. top dollar mythics that muscle their way into format prominence, and now can be reprinted later on to boost sales.
its probably the biggest downside of this, or potential downside at least. sure they could print cards like counterspell or baleful strix into modern, but a newly designed mythic or rare pushed specifically for modern play combined with a limited/small print run will undoubtedly cause many headaches.
its noteworthy though that wizards making money and players being satisfied arent mutually exclusive. much like jace being reprinted at the same time of his unban. it boosts sales, and gives more supply to meet player demand.
so what we can hope if this type of product ever happens is that wizards finds a good middle ground. print runs big enough to meet the demand of what might be the most played (paper) constructed format at a price point that isnt quite 'premium' as it was with masters products.
if you are wary of such a product, you definitely arent alone. i personally worry because direct meddling in formats by wizards hasnt usually turned out well. possibly incompetence, but either way formats are complex ecosystems. a direct to modern product is a departure from the format developing organically, either with cycling or as standard cards are introduced.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
id just like to point out the pretty substantial assumption that the survey results even indicated this as a popular course of action. at this point we are just taking it as fact that everyone wants or wanted something like this to begin with.
dont get me wrong, im not saying im not behind the idea. however i also recognize that itd be a significant departure from the norm. as it has been pointed out plenty of times in this thread such a product would/could include cards specifically designed for modern play. we have seen wizards design touch on this over 2018, but it is still different than an fully explicit showcasing of intent that a modern only (and beyond of course) set might contain.
i do think a need for such a product will only grow with time, since the gap between standard and modern only grows wider with every new standard set. that said we are still at a point where standard sets are very influential in creating new decks or empowering others in modern; which brings into question why wizards would want to press this particular button now. arguments that it 'would sell well' or make them a lot of money are flimsy at best. they are functionally printing money regardless.
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Modern: UWGSnow-Bant Control BURGrixis Death's Shadow GWBCoCo Elves WCDeath and Taxes (sold)
how can you be so sure? i think something is going to be done in the next year or so to alleviate card availability issues, but it doesnt necessarily need to be this specific kind of product.
i agree that wizards probably recognizes that modern is their most popular constructed format (no source, just speculation), and that they would look for ways to tap into that. even still the buzz and excitement of new cards, or certain reprints, is already something that happens with standard sets.
there hasnt been a specialized set for a non-standard constructed format before (sans commander). direct support for a format that isnt their flagship might run counter to their long term goals. even if it doesnt, the community might take it that way; which could also be detrimental.
to some degree similar products compete with eachtother. they would have to bank on box sales for a market that is entrenched in buying singles. then the ones who are convinced to buy boxes would have to be those who werent already buying boxes of another set (likely standard, but maybe whatever the next masters set is).
although its minor, it would also be the first and only special set with modern legality. which is just one more thing that might confuse newer players, both to the format and in general.
next the development of the set would be costly. as pointed out, this wouldnt likely be a $10 booster set, meaning less return on sales. to get the appropriate volume of supply out for entirely new cards, it means a fairly large print run. then if you assume that specialty sets require a small dedicated development team, then this product would also need one. this team would have the momentous task of designing a set that can be drafted to some degree (its boosters after all), has valuable legal-reprints, has balanced yet influential non-legal reprints, and balanced yet influential new cards.
-requires more resources
-less return per pack (to cover costs)
-less able to predict demand
-less predictable market response
-more demanding product requirements
in short its likely going to cost more to develop and produce than a set like battlebond, conspiracy, or even modern masters. with lower pack price you would be incurring a risk on two fronts if the product failed to sell as well as predicted. not to mention the less direct risks after the fact if the format ends up being worse off.
TLDR: a modern only booster set could be a gold mine if done right; which isnt impossible. however since it would have both a higher upfront cost and higher risk for failure, i cant see the project getting past the initial pitch.
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Modern only boosters? You mean like Modern Masters?
more than that. modern masters was only reprints. this is the possibility of getting cards into the format that are non-legal reprints, or newly designed cards; without having the restriction of going through standard first.
its a novel idea that has been around in one form or another since forever. wizards has clearly been rethinking their strategies for different products, but to be frank i dont see this ever happening. just too many hoops to jump through and risks incurred.
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They really just need to print better cards in standard. All modern cards were standard once. If they print modern only new cards with standard level print run , it would just simply be a new standard called by another name. If they do not, and it is more limited... then yes we have a whole set of nexus of fate... imagine that
The continuing problem with this is that most of the cards that we need to be in standard sets that will impact modern end up being fairly degenerate in standard. Thoughtseize, mutavault, Search for Azcanta, Teferi - these cards are so powerful they warp standards, but basically define the floor of what it takes to impact our format at this point. Eventually they'll run out of non-warping design space and yet will still need to interact with modern outside of bans/unbans (to retain community enjoyment of the format). This product (theoretically) allows them to do this.
there is a pretty big difference between standard warping cards, and cards that standard simply revolves around; which is inevitable. the idea that they will run out of design space for cards that impact modern doesnt hold water when a decently sized pool of playables comes with every set; some of which arent even relevant in standard.
modern getting plenty of new toys regularly and standard being good/healthy/whatever arent mutually exclusive. its only more recently when standard has been considered a dumpster fire when people more easily recognize the glaringly obvious pushed cards. if and or when wizards ever gets their act together to make a really good standard format, it wont be because they have toned down the number of cards expected to impact non-rotating formats.
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i agree its hard not to assume they arent printing direct-to-modern. however you have to note that at no point did they say it was designed specifically for modern. that is a leap you have to take with a bit of optimism. if you arent sure what im talking about its like battlebond and edh. battlebond was like weird 2hg shennanigans, but the product was partially aimed at edh. in that sense, it is the format getting the 'impact'.
as for what about it would be exciting or attractive, that is where the split in the camps happens. if you believe that high costing modern staples being reprinted in something NOT a premium costed set is sufficient to match their statements, then its a possibility. if you dont think so, then it isnt; making the only reasonable conclusion a non standard set being deemed modern legal.
as mentioned in my previous post, i dont think getting cheap fetches or whatever else counts. however im jaded enough to believe that wizards would believe it is. like somehow decks costing 700 instead of a 1000 is going to offset wizards possibly cutting back on modern tournaments, its relevancy in the mythic championship series, and instead pushing a new non-rotating format. im not saying that is going to happen, rather just pointing out how different those two things are.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)even with this pretty low expectation, id still be disappointed if it turns out to be true. mostly because it means those statements by maro and blake were extremely misleading. in that initial 'fact/fiction' interview where the announcement was spoiled the topic was about modern players being worried and uncertain about their format of choice being relegated to irrelevancy in the face of arena and its upcoming nonrotating format. in that context card availability is irrelevant, we already know they are shifting the load from the masters sets onto ancillary products. dont try to prop it up as some show of support. reprint fetches? guess they must be supporting legacy too!
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)now its hard to assume that the product is anything but something that injects cards into modern that werent previously there. its now confirmed to be one of the Innovation Sets, of which were previously Conspiracy and Battlebond. if they arent designing new cards specifically for it, and are constrained to modern reprints; then how is it any different than a rebranding of modern masters.
the only explanation would be a cheap modern masters, and its 'impact' that people would like is how cheap some cards get.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)its probably the biggest downside of this, or potential downside at least. sure they could print cards like counterspell or baleful strix into modern, but a newly designed mythic or rare pushed specifically for modern play combined with a limited/small print run will undoubtedly cause many headaches.
its noteworthy though that wizards making money and players being satisfied arent mutually exclusive. much like jace being reprinted at the same time of his unban. it boosts sales, and gives more supply to meet player demand.
so what we can hope if this type of product ever happens is that wizards finds a good middle ground. print runs big enough to meet the demand of what might be the most played (paper) constructed format at a price point that isnt quite 'premium' as it was with masters products.
if you are wary of such a product, you definitely arent alone. i personally worry because direct meddling in formats by wizards hasnt usually turned out well. possibly incompetence, but either way formats are complex ecosystems. a direct to modern product is a departure from the format developing organically, either with cycling or as standard cards are introduced.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)dont get me wrong, im not saying im not behind the idea. however i also recognize that itd be a significant departure from the norm. as it has been pointed out plenty of times in this thread such a product would/could include cards specifically designed for modern play. we have seen wizards design touch on this over 2018, but it is still different than an fully explicit showcasing of intent that a modern only (and beyond of course) set might contain.
i do think a need for such a product will only grow with time, since the gap between standard and modern only grows wider with every new standard set. that said we are still at a point where standard sets are very influential in creating new decks or empowering others in modern; which brings into question why wizards would want to press this particular button now. arguments that it 'would sell well' or make them a lot of money are flimsy at best. they are functionally printing money regardless.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)how can you be so sure? i think something is going to be done in the next year or so to alleviate card availability issues, but it doesnt necessarily need to be this specific kind of product.
i agree that wizards probably recognizes that modern is their most popular constructed format (no source, just speculation), and that they would look for ways to tap into that. even still the buzz and excitement of new cards, or certain reprints, is already something that happens with standard sets.
there hasnt been a specialized set for a non-standard constructed format before (sans commander). direct support for a format that isnt their flagship might run counter to their long term goals. even if it doesnt, the community might take it that way; which could also be detrimental.
to some degree similar products compete with eachtother. they would have to bank on box sales for a market that is entrenched in buying singles. then the ones who are convinced to buy boxes would have to be those who werent already buying boxes of another set (likely standard, but maybe whatever the next masters set is).
although its minor, it would also be the first and only special set with modern legality. which is just one more thing that might confuse newer players, both to the format and in general.
next the development of the set would be costly. as pointed out, this wouldnt likely be a $10 booster set, meaning less return on sales. to get the appropriate volume of supply out for entirely new cards, it means a fairly large print run. then if you assume that specialty sets require a small dedicated development team, then this product would also need one. this team would have the momentous task of designing a set that can be drafted to some degree (its boosters after all), has valuable legal-reprints, has balanced yet influential non-legal reprints, and balanced yet influential new cards.
-requires more resources
-less return per pack (to cover costs)
-less able to predict demand
-less predictable market response
-more demanding product requirements
in short its likely going to cost more to develop and produce than a set like battlebond, conspiracy, or even modern masters. with lower pack price you would be incurring a risk on two fronts if the product failed to sell as well as predicted. not to mention the less direct risks after the fact if the format ends up being worse off.
TLDR: a modern only booster set could be a gold mine if done right; which isnt impossible. however since it would have both a higher upfront cost and higher risk for failure, i cant see the project getting past the initial pitch.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)more than that. modern masters was only reprints. this is the possibility of getting cards into the format that are non-legal reprints, or newly designed cards; without having the restriction of going through standard first.
its a novel idea that has been around in one form or another since forever. wizards has clearly been rethinking their strategies for different products, but to be frank i dont see this ever happening. just too many hoops to jump through and risks incurred.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)there is a pretty big difference between standard warping cards, and cards that standard simply revolves around; which is inevitable. the idea that they will run out of design space for cards that impact modern doesnt hold water when a decently sized pool of playables comes with every set; some of which arent even relevant in standard.
modern getting plenty of new toys regularly and standard being good/healthy/whatever arent mutually exclusive. its only more recently when standard has been considered a dumpster fire when people more easily recognize the glaringly obvious pushed cards. if and or when wizards ever gets their act together to make a really good standard format, it wont be because they have toned down the number of cards expected to impact non-rotating formats.
UWGSnow-Bant Control
BURGrixis Death's Shadow
GWBCoCo Elves
WCDeath and Taxes(sold)