Lastly, not to get too crazy but as i mentioned, a grixis splash for cards like gurmag angler has some appeal. Is that just a bonkers notion or is there some value to it.
I've actually toyed with a Grixis build for a while. I feel like there could be something there, but I'm frankly terrible at deckbuilding from scratch. I usually have to take an existing deck and tweak it.
But some amalgamation between GDS and UR Phenoex may exist... Something with discard spells, Thought Scours, Collective Brutality, Faithless Looting, Manamorphose, Tasi/fish, Liliana, Bolts, and cantrips.
But I feel like it's slower than both GDS and Phoenix individually while not necessarily being more powerful. It would be just another mediocre Grixis midrange deck that lacks the fast/free wins of these two. Closest kind of deck would be like Mardu Pyromancer, but it would lack the Lingering Souls blockers to buy time and the back-breaking white sideboard cards. Dunno. Seems like UR is the best place to be *IF* your meta isn't filled with discard. It has the best combination of consistency and speed.
Meta dictates which build is best, or if any build is best. Like with my local meta filled with Thoughtseizes, I'm personally going to shelve the birds entirely until I see another shift back. I guess that's what we get for +/- 5 of us being on various Phoenix decks.
Hoo boy, talk about some bad beats. I 0-3 dropped last night to back to back to back Thoughtsieze decks (GDS, Lantern, Jund). Every single match was lost 0-2, and if I remember correctly, every single game of every match had a turn 1 Thoughtsieze/IoK. This turned my multiple Turn 3/4 kill hands into non-functional piles. Combined with only resurrecting 2 birds across six games and my 1 or 2 other threats per game all dying, it was a pretty rough night. Anyone who says this deck is busted or broken hasn't yet had a night like this! It's enough to make me sleeve up GDS for next FNM. lol.
I have been running Blood Moon in the side and has been great. While it's no longer the soul-crushing, free-win card it used to be, it helps considerably to buy time for a deck that can still win within 2 turns of landing a threat.
Helix would be interesting, and they could bring in Path if needed as well in a UWR Version + all the side hate cards.
He was on a transformative sideboard plan. He had Monastery Mentor, Spell Queller, and Gideon AoZ. Very very interesting build. Wish I had the complete list.
2-0 Merfolk. Crashed in for 14 damage turn 3 after their slow start (flipped Thing, gut shot, two birds). Game 2, killed a lot of things and got there with big swings.
1-2 Jeskai Phoenix. I got duped into thinking it was Jeskai control after they strategically scooped early to overwhelming board on turn 3 or 4. Good on them, because it cost me game 2, where I kept a slow grindy hand on the draw while I get pummeled by two flipped Things after boarding out Lightning Axe... Game 3 was close, but his Lightning Helixes made the difference. Might be worth looking into... it looked really good and he 4-0'd by the end of the night.
2-0 GR Pump Aggro. Most of his stuff died to Bolt. I was able to race faster.
2-0 Mardu Pyromancer. Was playing a much heavier white commitment. Brought in Moon since he kept fetching nonbasics. Slowed him down without crippling him, but was enough to get there with recursive birds. Was not running Path, so all removal was "destroy" based. Between a single Island and Manamorphose, this deck can easily function with Moon.
I agree that Jace is probably too cute. Still not sold on Noxious, but the guy playing it is running a different focused build. 4x scour, more Swiftys and Revelers, no main deck Drakes, so I guess it makes sense.
I'm seeing lists pop up with baby Jace (VP) amd a local is using Noxious Revival. Both seem to have merit over something like Snap or Briefing, in that all recast your spells, but Revival is free and Jace is reusable. Dunno how I feel about eother, but I might jam a Revival in my list for tonight.
Thought Scour digs the same amount at instant speed, assuming you don't mind things going in the yard. Scour also puts those cards directly in your hand/yard,.instead of requiring a chain or extra turns. Serum is great in this deck, but that doesn't make Serum a great card in a vaccuum. Give me a Serum Visions with Surveil and then we're talking about actually great.
The only thing that makes Serum good is that it sets up your Lootings better. That doesn't mean that Serum is good, but that playing it alongside better cantrips makes it feel good.
I have to ask---but what exactly is this deck playing surgical for? I can't see it doing much outside of dredge. Ross posted an Izzet sideboard guide but it won't be viewable for a month or so. Kind of frustrating since I'd like to see how to go about it.
I have to agree. It seems like the decks it would be good against, it's better to just race. The creature based GY decks get wrecked by Thing in the Ice anyway, and as above, Surgical does nothing against a KCI engine and competent pilot.
The third colour leads to a horrendous mana stretch anyway. Outside of an insane benefit we'd get out of a new synergistic card printed, it appears not to be worthwhile.
yeah i definitely noticed how mana can be tight even on UR. normally UR decks lean so heavily towards blue they can just get red online when necessary, but the red requirements in UR phoenix are high. like fetching an island early on definitely bit me in the ass a few times because i only considered what i needed right then rather than what i might possibly need 2 or 3 turns later.
unrelated: so what is the deal with ral, izzet viceroy? is it like some exceptional 1-of? or is it just showing up consistently in lists because that is what people won with. he just looks like a generic 'kill dudes draw cards', so i must be missing something.
It won me match against Jund, in which he had double goyf and I was at 7. On turn 4 I play a Drake to chump block one of them, turn 5 play Ral to kill the other, and from there it was a top deck war. Me, drawing somewhere from 2-4 cards per turn managed to survive, ultimate Ral, and kill him handily.
Speaking of the deck, played against KCI tonight and that feels like a miserable and unwinnable matchup without a speedy nut draw. Was an untap step away from killing game 1 on the draw when I got combod on their turn 4 after watching them loop things for 6 minutes until they were able to guarantee a win. Then game 2 I lose through casting Abrade, Spell pierce, and Surgical Extraction, and just scooped after they continued on through Surgical. To say the games were infuriating is an understatement. Can't be banned soon enough.
I've actually toyed with a Grixis build for a while. I feel like there could be something there, but I'm frankly terrible at deckbuilding from scratch. I usually have to take an existing deck and tweak it.
But some amalgamation between GDS and UR Phenoex may exist... Something with discard spells, Thought Scours, Collective Brutality, Faithless Looting, Manamorphose, Tasi/fish, Liliana, Bolts, and cantrips.
But I feel like it's slower than both GDS and Phoenix individually while not necessarily being more powerful. It would be just another mediocre Grixis midrange deck that lacks the fast/free wins of these two. Closest kind of deck would be like Mardu Pyromancer, but it would lack the Lingering Souls blockers to buy time and the back-breaking white sideboard cards. Dunno. Seems like UR is the best place to be *IF* your meta isn't filled with discard. It has the best combination of consistency and speed.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
4x Arclight Phoenix
1x Bedlam Reveler
2x Crackling Drake
3x Monastery Swiftspear
4x Thing in the Ice
Instant (19)
1x Fiery Temper
2x Gut Shot
2x Lightning Axe
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Manamorphose
4x Opt
2x Thought Scour
1x Chart a Course
4x Faithless Looting
4x Serum Visions
Land (18)
2x Island
2x Mountain
3x Polluted Delta
4x Scalding Tarn
4x Spirebluff Canal
3x Steam Vents
2x Abrade
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Blood Moon
1x Dispel
1x Dragon's Claw
1x Firemind's Research
1x Magma Spray
1x Ral, Izzet Viceroy
2x Spell Pierce
2x Surgical Extraction
2-0 Merfolk. Crashed in for 14 damage turn 3 after their slow start (flipped Thing, gut shot, two birds). Game 2, killed a lot of things and got there with big swings.
1-2 Jeskai Phoenix. I got duped into thinking it was Jeskai control after they strategically scooped early to overwhelming board on turn 3 or 4. Good on them, because it cost me game 2, where I kept a slow grindy hand on the draw while I get pummeled by two flipped Things after boarding out Lightning Axe... Game 3 was close, but his Lightning Helixes made the difference. Might be worth looking into... it looked really good and he 4-0'd by the end of the night.
2-0 GR Pump Aggro. Most of his stuff died to Bolt. I was able to race faster.
2-0 Mardu Pyromancer. Was playing a much heavier white commitment. Brought in Moon since he kept fetching nonbasics. Slowed him down without crippling him, but was enough to get there with recursive birds. Was not running Path, so all removal was "destroy" based. Between a single Island and Manamorphose, this deck can easily function with Moon.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I have to agree. It seems like the decks it would be good against, it's better to just race. The creature based GY decks get wrecked by Thing in the Ice anyway, and as above, Surgical does nothing against a KCI engine and competent pilot.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Speaking of the deck, played against KCI tonight and that feels like a miserable and unwinnable matchup without a speedy nut draw. Was an untap step away from killing game 1 on the draw when I got combod on their turn 4 after watching them loop things for 6 minutes until they were able to guarantee a win. Then game 2 I lose through casting Abrade, Spell pierce, and Surgical Extraction, and just scooped after they continued on through Surgical. To say the games were infuriating is an understatement. Can't be banned soon enough.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate