After getting some advice on "Random Deck Discussion" topic, I decided to make a plan B for the deck, due the archenemy focus that the Haunt receives. By this, I can play a bit more cautious, and them make a really impactful play, like playing Haunt and a mass discard.
Bottomless Pit and Necrogen Mists still putting a target over my face. The only one that liked it was a Meren player, for obvious reason. In the other hand, Altar of the Brood was more acceptable by not targeting cards in hands.
There's no many planeswalkers deck right now on my LGS, so I cut Never // Return and Ruinous Path to put Vraska's Contempt and for more Scour from Existence for the exile part. I was thinking about using edict effects against voltron, but I'm not sure if this could be useful than direct removal.
As I said in the first post, I didn't have any fast mana rock or lands, so I will test Crystal Vein and Ebon Stronghold for a little tempo gain to cast the Haunt. Is there others lands that can gain tempo like those?
The games so far was the same or worse as described on first post, the others players already knows the deck style and try to focus me even if Haunt didn't hit the battlefield yet. I'm still need some form of protection against that focus, preferably that don't need much more investment.
In my meta, there is few indestructible creatures, so didn't have the urgency of exile effects. It's a option, but isn't necessary.
Quest for the Nihil Stone isn't doing enough to stay, the same for Shrieking Affliction. Myojin, in the other side, is great, the deck supports high cmc spells that can devastates the opponents. Mindslicer would be great if I had more options to sacrifice creatures, but isn't the prime objective of the deck.
Oblivion Stone is great, but it puts a target in me, as if the deck itself already didn't put one.
Altar of the Brood was on my initial take of the deck, but was cut for more removal.
Mesmeric Orb is a great card, but I can't find a copy in my area, and didn't like to online shipping one. If I find a player who had it, probably I will pick it.
Necrogen Mists and Bottomless Pit was on my initial list, but didn't think them was good enough. With the change to more control approach, I will give them a chance. Additionaly, I will cut the strict "each opponent discard one/two/three cards", but will keep the "discard all" and the two voting cards, because them serves as removal too.
Holy crap, I always forgot one of the bests monoblack cards: Necropotence. Thanks!
How to fly under the radar on the first game and be hatred on the second? Play The Haunt of Hightower!!
The main objective is to play the Haunt as fast as possible, protect him, and make everyone losing their cards, from hand, top of library or battlefield. This can be done slowly by controlling the game with creature removals and minor discards, or go fast and make everyone discard their hands.
Burglar Rat - Fast creature that can add three counters on Haunt by making opponents discard, and it's a body to sacrifice to the edicts. Burnished Hart - Ramp, simple and direct. Yahenni, Undying Partisan - It's a plan B if Haunt gets very hated. Crypt Ghast - With a 6-cmc general and some high costed effects, doubling the mana is good. Fleshbag Marauder - Making opponents sacrificing creatures is good (for me, of course). Geth, Lord of the Vault - Can generate much valor if the game extends for a long time. Harvester of Souls - With many removals in the deck, can give me many draws. Liliana's Specter - Same as Burglar Rats. Myojin of Night's Reach - One of the mass discard that can make me win in the following turns. Plaguecrafter - More global edict. Ravenous Chupacabra - Target removal attached to a body. Reassembling Skeleton - Recursive creature to edict effects. Sepulchral Primordial - Utility creature, can cause great impact on the board. Shriekmaw - Another removal attached to a body, if needed. Solemn Simulacrum - Another ramp, with added bonus.
Bloodchief Ascension - Piece of combo, but incidental damage can ganerate the counters on it. Dreadhorde Invasion - Constant creature generator to edict and others effects. Bitterblossom would be better, but it's price are out of budget. Necropotence - More draw is always good. Waste Not - Alone, can be just annoying, but combined with others thinks can be pretty brutal, like... Words of Waste - Skip the draw to make everyone discard, growing Haunt, or decimate hands with Waste Not.
Awaken the Erstwhile - The second mass discard that can make me win in the following turns. The gifted tokens didn't seems to be a problem. Cabal Conditioning - The third mass discards. And can be used as political tool if really needed. Dark Deal - The fourth mass discards, but needs a good timming to be really good. Dread Summons - For just X=3, nine counters on Haunt seems very good, and more is a hit-kill option. Ill-Gotten Gains - Giving the option to return a mass discard can pump Haunt and put the cards returned to opponents hand in graveyard again. Night's Whisper - Draw is good. Shared Trauma - Even if nobody pays, just me, it's possible to be lethal for someone. Sign in Blood - I already said that draw is good? Smallpox - Putting a possible three cards in graveyard per opponent for only two mana is a good investment. Syphon Mind - A little discard, but the added value is good.
Buried Ruin - Brings back the equipments that probably will not survive long enough. Reliquary Tower - With many draw effects, having no maximum hand size is good. Rogue's Passage - Makes Haunt unblockable. Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Also makes Haunt unblockable.
Old cards cutted: Bottomless Pit and Necrogen Mists - They generated a frustrant game for all players, even me. Put more draw effects instead. Quest for the Nihil Stone and Shrieking Affliction - They make little damage over the games. To make it really good, it's needed to make a Haunt on turn 3 followed a mass discard, and even that isn't that good. Never // Return and Ruinous Path - Both are good, but I put the instant versions in their place. Whetstone - Very slow.
Notable omissions: Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault: They are great but I didn't have them. If this deck make a good winrate, maybe I pick them to make it better.
The problem:
After the first game played with Haunt, the next game I was focused by the others players and didn't make anything. I get three counterspells from a player, two exile spells on Haunt the turn it comes in to play by the second, and had my mana rocks destroyed by the third one. In the others games, I was sad by not playing because everyone was angry about the deck. How to make the actual list more reasonable between treats and protection at the same time? Maybe using more removals and less "everyone discard one/two cards" type effects?
Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Reassembling Skeleton, Dreadhorde Invasion and Altar of Dementia was included to make this plan B, giving a recursive milling strategy, with Yaheeni itself been big treat with all the removals the deck plays.
Out: Whetstone, Greed, Capital Punishment, Yahenni's Expertise, Scour from Existence
In: Altar of Dementia, Dreadhorde Invasion, Dark Deal, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Reassembling Skeleton, Imp's Mischief
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardThere's no many planeswalkers deck right now on my LGS, so I cut Never // Return and Ruinous Path to put Vraska's Contempt and for more Scour from Existence for the exile part. I was thinking about using edict effects against voltron, but I'm not sure if this could be useful than direct removal.
As I said in the first post, I didn't have any fast mana rock or lands, so I will test Crystal Vein and Ebon Stronghold for a little tempo gain to cast the Haunt. Is there others lands that can gain tempo like those?
The games so far was the same or worse as described on first post, the others players already knows the deck style and try to focus me even if Haunt didn't hit the battlefield yet. I'm still need some form of protection against that focus, preferably that don't need much more investment.
Out: Bottomless Pit, Necrogen Mists, Underworld Connections, Never // Return, Ruinous Path, Renegade's Getaway, Swamp
In: Altar of the Brood, Coldsteel Heart, Greed, Vraska's Contempt, Scour from Existence, Unlikely Aid, Strip Mine
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardIn my meta, there is few indestructible creatures, so didn't have the urgency of exile effects. It's a option, but isn't necessary.
Quest for the Nihil Stone isn't doing enough to stay, the same for Shrieking Affliction. Myojin, in the other side, is great, the deck supports high cmc spells that can devastates the opponents. Mindslicer would be great if I had more options to sacrifice creatures, but isn't the prime objective of the deck.
Oblivion Stone is great, but it puts a target in me, as if the deck itself already didn't put one.
Altar of the Brood was on my initial take of the deck, but was cut for more removal.
Out: Quest for the Nihil Stone, Shrieking Affliction, Dark Deal, Murder, Bite of the Black Rose, Ambition's Cost, Ancient Craving
In: Moonlight Bargain, Vendetta, Withering Boon, Liliana's Specter, Burglar Rat, Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardNecrogen Mists and Bottomless Pit was on my initial list, but didn't think them was good enough. With the change to more control approach, I will give them a chance. Additionaly, I will cut the strict "each opponent discard one/two/three cards", but will keep the "discard all" and the two voting cards, because them serves as removal too.
Holy crap, I always forgot one of the bests monoblack cards: Necropotence. Thanks!
Out: Arterial Flow, Burglar Rat, Chain of Smog, Delirium Skeins, Liliana's Specter, Unnerve, Vicious Rumors
In: Plaguecrafter, Fleshbag Marauder, Shriekmaw, Ravenous Chupacabra, Necropotence, Necrogen Mists, Bottomless Pit
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|StandardThe main objective is to play the Haunt as fast as possible, protect him, and make everyone losing their cards, from hand, top of library or battlefield. This can be done slowly by controlling the game with creature removals and minor discards, or go fast and make everyone discard their hands.
1x The Haunt of Hightower
Creature (13)
1x Burglar Rat
1x Burnished Hart
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Geth, Lord of the Vault
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Ravenous Chupacabra
1x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Shriekmaw
1x Solemn Simulacrum
Enchantment (5)
1x Bloodchief Ascension
1x Greed
1x Necropotence
1x Waste Not
1x Words of Waste
Sorcery (11)
1x Awaken the Erstwhile
1x Cabal Conditioning
1x Capital Punishment
1x Dread Summons
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Night's Whisper
1x Shared Trauma
1x Sign in Blood
1x Smallpox
1x Syphon Mind
1x Yahenni's Expertise
1x Dark Ritual
1x Devour in Shadow
1x Doom Blade
1x Go for the Throat
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Malicious Affliction
1x Moonlight Bargain
1x Reckless Spite
1x Rush of Vitality
1x Scour from Existence
1x Unlikely Aid
1x Vendetta
1x Victim of Night
1x Vraska's Contempt
1x Withering Boon
1x Without Weakness
Artifact (16)
1x Altar of the Brood
1x Charcoal Diamond
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Fractured Powerstone
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Mind Stone
1x Mindcrank
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Sol Ring
1x Star Compass
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Whetstone
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Cabal Stronghold
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Strip Mine
26x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1x The Haunt of Hightower
Discard (9)
1x Awaken the Erstwhile
1x Burglar Rat
1x Cabal Conditioning
1x Capital Punishment
1x Ill-Gotten Gains
1x Liliana's Specter
1x Myojin of Night's Reach
1x Syphon Mind
1x Words of Waste
Mill (5)
1x Altar of the Brood
1x Dread Summons
1x Mindcrank
1x Shared Trauma
1x Whetstone
Draw and Ramp (20)
1x Burnished Hart
1x Charcoal Diamond
1x Coldsteel Heart
1x Crypt Ghast
1x Dark Ritual
1x Everflowing Chalice
1x Fellwar Stone
1x Fractured Powerstone
1x Greed
1x Harvester of Souls
1x Mind Stone
1x Moonlight Bargain
1x Necropotence
1x Night's Whisper
1x Prismatic Lens
1x Sign in Blood
1x Sol Ring
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Star Compass
1x Devour in Shadow
1x Doom Blade
1x Fleshbag Marauder
1x Go for the Throat
1x Hero's Downfall
1x Malicious Affliction
1x Plaguecrafter
1x Ravenous Chupacabra
1x Reckless Spite
1x Scour from Existence
1x Shriekmaw
1x Smallpox
1x Vendetta
1x Victim of Night
1x Vraska's Contempt
1x Withering Boon
1x Yahenni's Expertise
Utility (5)
1x Bloodchief Ascension
1x Geth, Lord of the Vault
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Sepulchral Primordial
1x Waste Not
Protection (6)
1x Lightning Greaves
1x Rush of Vitality
1x Swiftfoot Boots
1x Unlikely Aid
1x Without Weakness
1x Whispersilk Cloak
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Buried Ruin
1x Cabal Coffers
1x Cabal Stronghold
1x Ghost Quarter
1x Myriad Landscape
1x Reliquary Tower
1x Rogue's Passage
1x Shizo, Death's Storehouse
1x Strip Mine
26x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
Explanations about cards choices:
Burnished Hart - Ramp, simple and direct.
Yahenni, Undying Partisan - It's a plan B if Haunt gets very hated.
Crypt Ghast - With a 6-cmc general and some high costed effects, doubling the mana is good.
Fleshbag Marauder - Making opponents sacrificing creatures is good (for me, of course).
Geth, Lord of the Vault - Can generate much valor if the game extends for a long time.
Harvester of Souls - With many removals in the deck, can give me many draws.
Liliana's Specter - Same as Burglar Rats.
Myojin of Night's Reach - One of the mass discard that can make me win in the following turns.
Plaguecrafter - More global edict.
Ravenous Chupacabra - Target removal attached to a body.
Reassembling Skeleton - Recursive creature to edict effects.
Sepulchral Primordial - Utility creature, can cause great impact on the board.
Shriekmaw - Another removal attached to a body, if needed.
Solemn Simulacrum - Another ramp, with added bonus.
Dreadhorde Invasion - Constant creature generator to edict and others effects. Bitterblossom would be better, but it's price are out of budget.
Necropotence - More draw is always good.
Waste Not - Alone, can be just annoying, but combined with others thinks can be pretty brutal, like...
Words of Waste - Skip the draw to make everyone discard, growing Haunt, or decimate hands with Waste Not.
Cabal Conditioning - The third mass discards. And can be used as political tool if really needed.
Dark Deal - The fourth mass discards, but needs a good timming to be really good.
Dread Summons - For just X=3, nine counters on Haunt seems very good, and more is a hit-kill option.
Ill-Gotten Gains - Giving the option to return a mass discard can pump Haunt and put the cards returned to opponents hand in graveyard again.
Night's Whisper - Draw is good.
Shared Trauma - Even if nobody pays, just me, it's possible to be lethal for someone.
Sign in Blood - I already said that draw is good?
Smallpox - Putting a possible three cards in graveyard per opponent for only two mana is a good investment.
Syphon Mind - A little discard, but the added value is good.
Devour in Shadow - Removal without restriction.
Doom Blade - Removal with restriction.
Go for the Throat - Removal with restriction.
Hero's Downfall - Two modes of removal without restriction.
Imp's Mischief - More protection against targeted removal.
Malicious Affliction - Removal with restriction.
Moonlight Bargain - Better than card draw is card selection.
Reckless Spite - Removal with restriction.
Rush of Vitality - Protection against mass or targeted removal.
Unlikely Aid - More protection.
Vendetta - Removal with restriction.
Victim of Night - Removal with restriction.
Vraska's Contempt - Two modes of removal without restriction.
Withering Boon - Some people didn't expect a black counterspell.
Without Weakness - More protection.
Altar of the Brood - Another incidental mill.
Charcoal Diamond - Ramp.
Coldsteel Heart - Ramp.
Everflowing Chalice - Ramp.
Fellwar Stone - Ramp.
Fractured Powerstone - Ramp.
Lightning Greaves - More protection.
Mind Stone - Ramp and draw if needed.
Mindcrank - Another part of combo, but alone still generates value to Haunt during the game, on incidental damage in the board.
Nihil Spellbomb - Graveyard hate.
Prismatic Lens - Ramp.
Sol Ring - Ramp.
Star Compass - Ramp.
Swiftfoot Boots - More protection.
Whispersilk Cloak - More protection.
Reliquary Tower - With many draw effects, having no maximum hand size is good.
Rogue's Passage - Makes Haunt unblockable.
Shizo, Death's Storehouse - Also makes Haunt unblockable.
Old cards cutted:
Bottomless Pit and Necrogen Mists - They generated a frustrant game for all players, even me. Put more draw effects instead.
Quest for the Nihil Stone and Shrieking Affliction - They make little damage over the games. To make it really good, it's needed to make a Haunt on turn 3 followed a mass discard, and even that isn't that good.
Never // Return and Ruinous Path - Both are good, but I put the instant versions in their place.
Whetstone - Very slow.
Notable omissions:
Ancient Tomb, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault: They are great but I didn't have them. If this deck make a good winrate, maybe I pick them to make it better.
I'm testing / I want to test:
Crystal Vein, Ebon Stronghold, Everglades - A bit of ramp to play Haunt more fast.Too risky to use.Darkness, Sudden Spoiling - Protection against go-wide strategies.
Liliana's Triumph, Vona's Hunger, Virtus's Maneuver, Syphon Flesh, Killing Wave - I want to use some edict spells in addiction to edict creatures, but didn't know how to balance the numbers of each type.
The problem:
After the first game played with Haunt, the next game I was focused by the others players and didn't make anything. I get three counterspells from a player, two exile spells on Haunt the turn it comes in to play by the second, and had my mana rocks destroyed by the third one. In the others games, I was sad by not playing because everyone was angry about the deck. How to make the actual list more reasonable between treats and protection at the same time? Maybe using more removals and less "everyone discard one/two cards" type effects?
In: Plaguecrafter, Fleshbag Marauder, Shriekmaw, Ravenous Chupacabra, Necropotence, Necrogen Mists, Bottomless Pit
In: Moonlight Bargain, Vendetta, Withering Boon, Liliana's Specter, Burglar Rat, Sign in Blood, Night's Whisper
In: Sepulchral Primordial, Altar of the Brood, Coldsteel Heart, Greed, Vraska's Contempt, Scour from Existence, Unlikely Aid, Strip Mine
In: Altar of Dementia, Dreadhorde Invasion, Dark Deal, Yahenni, Undying Partisan, Reassembling Skeleton, Imp's Mischief
Hightower | Vial/Thrasios | Mogis | Grenzo | Endrek |
Tatyova|Sisay|Zurgo|Breya|Chisei|Marchesa|Olivia|KaradorPauper | Pauper |
Legacy|4fun|4fun|Modern|Frontier|Standard