Twin was inferior to Scapeshift and Jeskai Ascendancy as Dig decks. The Jeskai Ascendancy deck abusing Dig Through Time came out very late. It played like a Jeskai Control deck in the early game, but instead of killing you with Celestial Colonnade and Snapcaster Mage+Lightning Bolt, it used Jeskai Ascendancy and Fatestitcher with plenty of cantrips, including Gitaxian Probe. It felt like an improved version of Scapeshift, as it could interact more with the opponent in the early game yet it could kill faster. Once Dig Through Time was banned, the deck disappeared, as there is no other card capable of refilling your hand for so few mana that allows you to play a grindy game. Since then, Wizards has done a good job, unbanning Ancestral Vision and Jace and printing Teferi and Search for Azcanta as card advantage engines that can't be abused by combo or aggro decks.
I would say that the Twin lists I saw around in the TC meta weren't well optimized for Dig, rather than that its objectively worse than Jeskai Ascendency combo or Scapeshift. No Probe, No Bauble, no looting, and more of a focus on being able to grind it out with Snapcasters were the hallmarks of that era of Twin. When you run Dig in Twin, you're not playing the control game at all. It's an all in combo deck with a few pieces of interaction to protect your combo or stall for a turn or two. It's pretty good, too. Based on how that performs in NBLM, I'm pretty convinced that even without Chrome Mox it would have performed quite well in Modern.
All-in combo Twin was a thing for a while and then drifted away from that because it's not as good and considerably easier to disrupt. Putting Probes and Baubles in a deck that wants to play a long interactive game is a terrible idea. Which is why nobody did it, even for DTT.
but seeing the locals last night changed my mtgo hive mind sentiments a bit.
Playing Commander with those same locals and randoms and friends will do wonders for your overall enjoyment of Magic, IMO. Whereas competitive Modern will have the opposite effect, as you seem to recognize as well!
I expected that you, of all people, would enjoy a UR deck, with high velocity, a strong Plan A that's difficult to disrupt, that when it is interacted with, can fall back to good Plan B and a mediocre Plan C. A deck that out of the sideboard can morph into a great Blood Moon deck, but can also interact with it's opponents plans.
I do not enjoy the linear play lines it promotes with any of its main game plans. I wish I could discuss this (and several other things you mention) further, but I don't need more infractions. Luckily I have enough redundant pieces and staples to have it and GDS fully sleeved up at any point, but I generally choose to enjoy a deck that plays with my opponent, rather than at them. I enjoy Phoenix about as much as I enjoyed the (very brief) stint I had with Storm.
I have a foil/promo deck that cost me thousands of dollars and two years to put together. Whether I like the format or not, I'm playing that deck because it would be a complete and utter waste not to. I probably get more enjoyment out of simply looking at my opening hand than I do actually playing most rounds of Magic these days.
This is neither friendly to new users, nor respectful to other people's opinions.
Do you think that there is this minor possibility that some people have invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their life into a format they once loved, only to see it transform in to an amalgamation of trash and frustration that bares no resemblance to what it once was? And that the kinds of decks and archetypes they enjoyed playing are essentially unplayable in a competitive sense, after multiple years of WOTC ham-fistedly trying to help them and make up for destroying them in the first place? And that maybe, just maybe, those people are having a hard time enjoying a format whose top decks for nearly 3 years have nearly all been obnoxious miserable decks to play against, and promote awful play lines and incredibly swingy, variance-dependent gameplay?
As I said I WISH I could enjoy the format as much as others seem to. But I don't enjoy the aggro rat race, nor do I enjoy battles of sideboards. But least of all, I can't stand losing to the parings board in matches that essentially feel completely out of my control. Keep on keepin' on. Keep saying everything is fine.
I think some of the views of Modern are similar to how bocephus would constantly tell players to get better and adapt, even throughout Eldrazi Winter. He would ignore any result of any big tournament and all of MTGO by citing his multiple LGS stories and random Leagues to show how everything is fine and Modern is healthy and diverse.
I wish I could enjoy the format as much as those people. I wish I could be playing the format these people are playing.
I enjoy Modern, I pretty much always have. I would be happier if Hollow One bit the big one, or Burning Inquiry, but that's ust an LGS complaint, not a format complaint. I run mostly Tron, so I can't fault someone else for playing an obnoxious deck, but 'I have a good hand....oh, Burning Inquiry, now my hand is garbage and you have two Hollow Ones in play turn one. great' is not fun. really it's just those two cards. Everything else I can usually move fast enough to compete, but those openers are just so blisteringly fast, and too resilient to get that kind of speed. Storm is fine, a light breeze and that deck is borked, but a resolved Hollow One is a backbreaking turn 1 play, and there's no real chance to do anything about it.
Yeah, thank GOD that deck lost favor at my store. But instead I have to deal with monumental disparity between streamlined tier decks and wacky random brews, or decks way out of favor. Just this last week, I lost a tight round 1 against Eldrazi Taxes (hi RIP and Leyline against GDS), so I go into the loser's bracket and play Bant Pile of Planeswalkers, then Grindstone combo, then Eldrazi Stopmpy. Awesome. Why do I even bother trying to pick my deck or tune my sideboard for anything. Meanwhile, the other half of the room was all Humans, Spirits, and Phoenix.
The game has always had the paper/rock/scissors aspect to it.
Except "Scissors" is considerably better than everything else. But we tell ourselves it's "good" and "diverse" because there are 7 different kinds of scissors.
Not to go too much off topic, but this assumes they print equipment better than Batterskull and the Swords, which is incredibly unlikely, if not outright impossible given their thoughts and feelings about their past mistakes. Because GGT wasn't a problem until two GREAT new enablers and one AMAZING payoff card was printed and busted the deck to shreds. GGT was legal for more than a year before being relevant with these new cards. These two situations are nothing alike.
I really just want to sit down to play magic every week, and know there 75% of my matches are going to be interesting games, full of decisions, potential back and forth, and just generally stimulating games.
...
I just want to play interesting games.
That's all I want too. But it's not something you can get from the vast majority of top decks in the format today.
In addition, oftentimes certain people (mostly from people who vocally dislike modern for the past few years), claims have been made that modern is just not enjoyable. Popularity numbers in general indicate to the opposite, as well as event attendance.
Popularity does not mean enjoy, as shown by the number of people selecting Option #4. There are likely many players who are so heavily invested that the choices between selling out the cards or begrudgingly continue to play, lean towards continuing to play. They have spent so much time/effort/money on the format that walking away would feel like a monumental waste.
I am going to just start jamming those decks like crazy. I'll get back to you whether THAT makes me start to enjoy it (if I can replicate the results I've had with Eye of Ugin Eldrazi, GGT Dredge, or Summer Bloom Titan). Yes, I can have fun just slaughtering people too, but it literally needs to be at the same level of those decks. My guess is that it is.
I can tell you that, for me personally, two big elements are keeping me from playing Phoenix myself. First is it's just not fun to play. It's extremely one-dimensional, and simply goes through the motions. Cantrip, flip, free birds, attack. It's repetitive and bland. But the second makes it more frustrating: our local meta still has tons of people still trying to force interactive BGx and Uxx decks, which is fine, if the other half of the store wasn't playing degenerate nonsense and wacky brews. My best and worst nights are often decided by the pairings board. At least GDS gives me a fighting chance against just about anything, and has dynamic and engaging games when I DO get paired with interactive decks. It was a fairly miserable experience most of the time.
Phoenix is great on MTGO and at the GP level because few who care about winning are playing BGx and Uxx, so it's a fantastic choice for the competitive scene. It's fast, efficient, and attacks on multiple angles while being strong against most removal.
I picked 4th option. I wouldn't say I hate it, but I am FAR from enjoying it. The kinds of games I actually enjoy playing are few and far between. The majority of degenerate nonsense and lopsided games make it nearly as unenjoyable as 2016. However, I also believe that nothing will bring back the format I enjoyed, and no meaningful changes will ever course-correct away from linear degenerate nonsense without vast, sweeping bans.
All-in combo Twin was a thing for a while and then drifted away from that because it's not as good and considerably easier to disrupt. Putting Probes and Baubles in a deck that wants to play a long interactive game is a terrible idea. Which is why nobody did it, even for DTT.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Playing Commander with those same locals and randoms and friends will do wonders for your overall enjoyment of Magic, IMO. Whereas competitive Modern will have the opposite effect, as you seem to recognize as well!
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I have a foil/promo deck that cost me thousands of dollars and two years to put together. Whether I like the format or not, I'm playing that deck because it would be a complete and utter waste not to. I probably get more enjoyment out of simply looking at my opening hand than I do actually playing most rounds of Magic these days.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Do you think that there is this minor possibility that some people have invested thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of their life into a format they once loved, only to see it transform in to an amalgamation of trash and frustration that bares no resemblance to what it once was? And that the kinds of decks and archetypes they enjoyed playing are essentially unplayable in a competitive sense, after multiple years of WOTC ham-fistedly trying to help them and make up for destroying them in the first place? And that maybe, just maybe, those people are having a hard time enjoying a format whose top decks for nearly 3 years have nearly all been obnoxious miserable decks to play against, and promote awful play lines and incredibly swingy, variance-dependent gameplay?
As I said I WISH I could enjoy the format as much as others seem to. But I don't enjoy the aggro rat race, nor do I enjoy battles of sideboards. But least of all, I can't stand losing to the parings board in matches that essentially feel completely out of my control. Keep on keepin' on. Keep saying everything is fine.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I wish I could enjoy the format as much as those people. I wish I could be playing the format these people are playing.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Yeah, thank GOD that deck lost favor at my store. But instead I have to deal with monumental disparity between streamlined tier decks and wacky random brews, or decks way out of favor. Just this last week, I lost a tight round 1 against Eldrazi Taxes (hi RIP and Leyline against GDS), so I go into the loser's bracket and play Bant Pile of Planeswalkers, then Grindstone combo, then Eldrazi Stopmpy. Awesome. Why do I even bother trying to pick my deck or tune my sideboard for anything. Meanwhile, the other half of the room was all Humans, Spirits, and Phoenix.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Except "Scissors" is considerably better than everything else. But we tell ourselves it's "good" and "diverse" because there are 7 different kinds of scissors.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Not to go too much off topic, but this assumes they print equipment better than Batterskull and the Swords, which is incredibly unlikely, if not outright impossible given their thoughts and feelings about their past mistakes. Because GGT wasn't a problem until two GREAT new enablers and one AMAZING payoff card was printed and busted the deck to shreds. GGT was legal for more than a year before being relevant with these new cards. These two situations are nothing alike.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
That's all I want too. But it's not something you can get from the vast majority of top decks in the format today.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Popularity does not mean enjoy, as shown by the number of people selecting Option #4. There are likely many players who are so heavily invested that the choices between selling out the cards or begrudgingly continue to play, lean towards continuing to play. They have spent so much time/effort/money on the format that walking away would feel like a monumental waste.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
Many people spent thousands of dollars to get into modern specifically to avoid rotation.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
I can tell you that, for me personally, two big elements are keeping me from playing Phoenix myself. First is it's just not fun to play. It's extremely one-dimensional, and simply goes through the motions. Cantrip, flip, free birds, attack. It's repetitive and bland. But the second makes it more frustrating: our local meta still has tons of people still trying to force interactive BGx and Uxx decks, which is fine, if the other half of the store wasn't playing degenerate nonsense and wacky brews. My best and worst nights are often decided by the pairings board. At least GDS gives me a fighting chance against just about anything, and has dynamic and engaging games when I DO get paired with interactive decks. It was a fairly miserable experience most of the time.
Phoenix is great on MTGO and at the GP level because few who care about winning are playing BGx and Uxx, so it's a fantastic choice for the competitive scene. It's fast, efficient, and attacks on multiple angles while being strong against most removal.
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate
UR ....... WUBR ........... WB ............. RGW ........ UBR ....... WUB .... BGU
Spells / Blink & Combo / Token Grind / Dino Tribal / Draw Cards / Zombies / Reanimate