I mean, while its true Hoogak didn't have extreme numbers dont forget people were outrageously prepared for it. We're talking like 7-9 hate pieces in a bunch of decks, this by no means reliquenishes Hoogak being problematic.
I mean, Phoenix is definitely a quiet offender. It had fantastic results at the MC tournament, but due to limited I don't think Phoenix was properly represented.
I very much think faithless looting is becoming an issue for modern and could go down the road of Probe. No, faithless looting is not to nerf Hoogak decks, it's an overall meta health issue.
I think hoogak will be banned in order to avoid eldrazi winter on camera at an MC. Unless it completely flops this coming weekend in results.
The deck is broken. I dont need more convincing. This isnt some cute plays with shadow or Phoenix. The deck is very much busted. You stick s leyline or jailer or 100 percent lose. Reid Duke on camera last night had no issues facing fast decks with it for a turn 3 win.
Deck is getting banned, let's not do this foolishness again, we all said to give eldrazi a chance for data collection. This is easily a tier 0 deck. Ban it. Its not healthy to see 8 or 9 gy hate in people's 75.
By the way, right now Jund isn’t even a competitive Magic deck.
If I'm going to prioritize a main deck card, I would prefer Veto or Pierce. I think both of those are better and more versatile than Force. Seems fine in the side, but far from "modern's saving grace on a pedestal" that people make it out to be. I didn't realize that was so damn controversial.
Let’s keep it at facts. Facts say that Dovin’s Veto is the less versatile between the cards you mentioned, cause it has a fringe application only against Ux based strategies. You know what stops people from doing unfair things in Modern? A cc 0 Force of Negation.
Why do you say that? Jund has been fantastic from the new set. Wrenn is very much the real deal. Seasoned Pyromancer is huge value. BBE has been cut down to 2, some are debating on 0. Jund's actually feeling better than it has in a very long time.
While I'm not demanding a ban for this new deck, I think it's extremely problematic that the format feels it needs to run 4x Leylines and 2x other pieces of grave hate in the main or side to beat Bridgevine. Like, even if this is what it takes to hate the deck out, that says a lot. It kinda seems like a systemic issue with the format, too.
Could and will this deck be hated out? Sure. Does this mean the moment you switch off Leyline/RIP and just down to 3 to 4 gy hate that you'll lose a tournament to a Vine deck? This isn't healthy.
WOTC needs to think of a creative way to deal with grave decks.
"The cards where we are wrong and that ended up much more powerful than we had expected are some of the most iconic cards from the last decade—Primeval Titan; Jace, the Mind Sculptor; Stoneforge Mystic; Bitterblossom; Bridge from Below; Tarmogoyf; etc. These cards are not always the most fun to play with or against, and we have subsequently had to ban them from some formats, but the cards still exist in the same form they did when we printed them."
Prime Time - Fine in Modern.
Jace - Fine in Modern
Bitterblossom - Not Good in Modern.
Bridge - Not Good in Modern.
Goyf - Fatal Pushed in Modern.
If thats the metric, SFM comes off next announcement.
Dude, they're not unbanning SFM. UW being this good makes WOTC too hesitant to do so. SFM will be banned for several more years, they've made this very clear, whether you agree with their logic or not
The problem with midrange is that it's been left behind with too much efficiency from other combo decks, graveyard recursion, faithless looting, cantrips, etc. Decks are ripping through their decks or winning while we play a turn 3 LOTV.
Midrange is overrepresented for its power level, but it's really not what you should be doing in modern right now. It needs something stupid good like DRS or Sylvan levels, I think. I'll definitely have to roll my eyes at the thread if people celebrate over a vindicate or some type of spoiler.
I spent years playing a foiled out jund deck that is mainly irrelevant now. What makes you so feel you're entitled? I'd love a drs unban or pod but it's not happening. Great arguements or not. You moved the goal line. Before it was all blue is bad, then it was gds isnt for me. Then Phoenix is too linear.
You said it yourself, you're doing 3 and 1 or 4 and 0 a lot. Its competitive enough with where you play.
I very much think faithless looting is becoming an issue for modern and could go down the road of Probe. No, faithless looting is not to nerf Hoogak decks, it's an overall meta health issue.
This is definitely worthy of an emergency ban.
I don't even know what should be banned, I think it'll honestly take both pieces of something.
Hoogak was an extremely horribly designed mistake, and they printed this for modern so there's no excuse to say it slipped their radar.
The deck is broken. I dont need more convincing. This isnt some cute plays with shadow or Phoenix. The deck is very much busted. You stick s leyline or jailer or 100 percent lose. Reid Duke on camera last night had no issues facing fast decks with it for a turn 3 win.
Deck is getting banned, let's not do this foolishness again, we all said to give eldrazi a chance for data collection. This is easily a tier 0 deck. Ban it. Its not healthy to see 8 or 9 gy hate in people's 75.
Why do you say that? Jund has been fantastic from the new set. Wrenn is very much the real deal. Seasoned Pyromancer is huge value. BBE has been cut down to 2, some are debating on 0. Jund's actually feeling better than it has in a very long time.
Could and will this deck be hated out? Sure. Does this mean the moment you switch off Leyline/RIP and just down to 3 to 4 gy hate that you'll lose a tournament to a Vine deck? This isn't healthy.
WOTC needs to think of a creative way to deal with grave decks.
Maybe a few months of leyline with London mulls will help bridgevine to go down.
Dude, they're not unbanning SFM. UW being this good makes WOTC too hesitant to do so. SFM will be banned for several more years, they've made this very clear, whether you agree with their logic or not
Monday and Tuesdays spoilers have looked really bad outside of Oufy/Ouphie.
Midrange is overrepresented for its power level, but it's really not what you should be doing in modern right now. It needs something stupid good like DRS or Sylvan levels, I think. I'll definitely have to roll my eyes at the thread if people celebrate over a vindicate or some type of spoiler.
You said it yourself, you're doing 3 and 1 or 4 and 0 a lot. Its competitive enough with where you play.
I mean, did the twin ban fail? Yup. Does blue have a bunch of good, viable tier 1 and tier 2 decks? Yeah. You're making this hard, man.