Sorry, I meant post the link to the new thread.
I looked your link though and wondered where the infinite combos were?
The link for the new Urza thread on MTGNexus will be coming shortly. To check out my Memnarch thread, which is a great way of showcasing Nexus' coding power and to give you an idea of how I'll be formatting all of my future Primers, click on the link here.
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
First and foremost, the majority of the MTGSal staff that make this site work and function are leaving for MTGNexus. This wholesale migration of valuable and active members within the MTGSAl community that maintain its integrity and reputation leaves me uneasy as to the future direction of this site. Cryogen, Airithne, Wildfire, and many others that make this site tick are already active on MTGNexus and are, quite frankly, having a better experience with the new platform and have already established the basic infrastructure to make it successful in the same ways that MTGSal has been successful. I'm a strong supporter of these individuals and prefer to trust my online MTG experience to people that have been a part of the online MTG space for decades. I will be leaving this site to follow them in the new adventure that is Nexus, and I'm super happy to do so.
Next, the coding versatility and overall look and feel of MTGNexus is, quite simply, gorgeous. Check out the site here and explore if for a few minutes yourself. Then, check out these two Primers to get an idea of the coding versatility that exists on the new platform: darrenhabib's Will & Rowan Kenrith Primer and rumpy5897's Feather, the Redeemed Primer. In comparison to MTGSal, I think these Primers are far and away the visually superior product in comparing them to their respective MTGSal primers, and this kind of experience is one that I've personally always wanted from my online MTG experience. So, from a user standpoint, I find MTGNexus to offer a superior experience from a backend coding perspective that allows users to create visually complex and attractive posts that is unmatched by MTGSalvation.
Finally, there is a chance for myself, in my current Moderator position on MTGNexus, to be able to positively shape the way MTGNexus as a site performs. I'm an inherently creative person, and because of the personal relationship that I have with the site Admins and Owner, I feel confident that I will be able to influence the site in the ways that I think will increase MTGNexus' stature and reputation. In my current role on MTGSal, this is just not the case. It's like shouting into a void when it comes to real, concrete suggestions that the site Admins need to look over that never happens. I will have a chance to proactively introduce new content and new directions for the site that will actually be listened to and implemented by the MTGNexus staff, which will lead to a better user experience for me personally.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Yes, you can pay the buyback cost of Capsize with Urza's ability. He doesn't restrict you from paying additional costs in order to get additional effects, so this is totally fine.
Additionally, I'll be removing ALL of my content from MTGSal and transitioning over to MTGNexus, as a heads up. I recommend checking it out, as it's a beautiful new platform with an awesome staff, super cool coding capabilities, and the same functionality of MTGSal. I'll be making a formal post in the cEDH forums and the regular Commander forums to persuade people to switch over, so stay tuned.
Pretty much. I agree with them banning the Engine because outside of a cEDH environment it was probably too strong. I'll probably slot it Power Artifact in its place since it does roughly the same thing.
Is Grafdigger cage in the main for meta or is it really useful?
This thread and all of my Primers will be taken down and moved to the new site.
The Cage is a general meta call. There's a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that I consistently see, and Hulk decks are top of the Tier in cEDH, so it's a great general inclusion.
I meant to say in addition to Reshape. Gimme all the tutor effects for Artifacts!
@Wraith
I think I'm inclined to disagree with you. While I'm waiting to test out my deck until I get my paper cards in the mail, I think that between Sai, Urza, and new Karn, there should be plenty of targets for Arcum's ability. We only really need to activate him once for him to have paid off and he gets especially broken with Sai. Time will tell.
This thread and all of my Primers will be moving over to the new site, once it's up and running. They're doing some final tweaks now and some server integration/updating, but it looks like it could be ready before the week is over.
I've had some excellent experiences with Sai, personally. My wife plays her Kaalia deck exclusively, and being able to make chump blockers just by casting Artifacts has been hugely relevant in multiple instances, notably saving me from a Balefire Dragon trigger that would have slaughtered my board. Flying blockers > Clue tokens, at least for my playgroup. And Sai blocks Tymna ALL day, every day and survives most of the Wrath effects in cEDH. I'd recommend Sai, personally, over Trail of Evidence.
Noice! I didn't realize that Trinisphere was so expensive. I guess it's really good in Vintage and Legacy? I'll try and trade into it if I can.
It really depends. I've had great success with both Dispel AND Mental Misstep. I think that the Misstep hits a more varied sort of permanents while also stopping some of the relevant counterspells you would see that break up your turn while Dispel safeguards your combo turn pretty solidly. I prefer to be a little bit more proactive with my control elements, so I'd personally recommend the Misstep. You could run either of them and be totally fine.
I'm really high on Force of Negation, personally. Having another pseudo Force of Will effect is always welcome and the 1UU to defend a combo turn is not THAT big of a deal, particularly in a big mana deck like Urza. I highly recommend running it, since this deck is mostly afraid of non-creature spells comboing out before we can. Looking at you, Flash Hulk and Food Chain...
Arcum is redundant and slow.
Shackles seems redundant and worse than Legacy's Allure
Having more than one counterspell is redundant too. And don't forget to cut sol ring, mox opal, etc....because they're redundant. As you can see, calling something redundant is not a valid argument.
Arcum has been a star in my urza deck. He'll cheat in paradox at instant speed unless he's dealt with, and any card that has to be dealt with is a good card.
Not sure which is better between legacy's allure and shackles. But if there's a creature shutting you down or threatening to combo off, there's plenty of cards that will tutor for shackles and maybe one or two that will fetch the allure. And even if I do find the allure I'll probably have to wait a while before I can use it.
Hey has anyone playtested howling mine in this deck? I find the interaction between it an Urza rather amusing.
I think that there are better draw effects available to the deck? And if Urza were to somehow not stay in play, than the Mine does benefit the table. Not the worst thing I suppose, but the fact that it helps the table when Urza ISN'T in play seems like a strike against the card, in my mind.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Shackles is better than the Allure. Being a repeatable effect is the bee's knees (where did this expression even come from??) and it helps increase the Artifact density in the deck. It's tutorable via the majority of the tutors in the deck and it can be cast and activated the turn it comes into play, more often than not. I like Shackles and have always liked Shackles and will continue to run it in any mono-Blue deck.
I don’t want my opponents drawing extra cards!!!! I have Slivers in my meta. Noooo.
Found holes for Invoke Prejudice and Forcefield. Works better actually.
The sky ship is way to slow to me and just not reliable.
Echo of Eons is really good for me as I can not afford a timetwister.
Need to pick up trinisphere and transmute artifact. Not cheap but attainable.
Power artifact is still needed in my opinion as it’s another infinite combo.
Dispel and trickbind/stifle needs to be considered as I have been seeing it do some work in games.
I like the futuresight combo buts a lot of cards to assemble. Adding a spot a for the sculptor is hard.
Thoughts on null rod?
Yeah, Echo of Eons is a godsend to budget cEDH players. I'm so glad they printed one. Now, they just need a functional [CARD}Transmute Artifact[/CARD} replacement.
I think you're underestimating the Future Sight combos. All of the pieces are individually good and Future Sight + Engine is really awesome too. I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to consider Future Sight as a staple card (for me).
My thinking for Skyship is that I could exile Mycosynth Lattice with it and then put it into my hand with Karn, but that's probably just not consistent enough. Arcum does what Skyship wants to do but better. I'll add in Tribute Mage instead since it finds a good suite of targets.
I'm not a fan of Mill win-conditions anymore. There's a Gitrog and a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that both run Eldrazi titans, so I won't be adding in the Shredder anytime soon. And if I'm going infinite with Dramatic Scepter, I'm probably going to just play Urza and dump that mana into his activated ability to cast every spell in the deck (except the ones that would cause me to mill myself out).
Not sure what I'd cut for good 'ol Snappy. Any suggestions?
I didn't know that Storage Matrix was a card, so that's why it hasn't been considered. I think it has some really cool applications though, so I think you could easily slot it in, particularly since it hits all the mana generating permanents most commonly played in a cEDH game.
Yeah, still trying to find room for Unwinding Clock. Not sure what I should cut, although Skyship Weatherlight is a likely candidate, even as sad of a flavor loss that is.
I'd rather play Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm over Essence Flux, if you're trying to protect Urza. They have a larger range of uses than simply protecting Urza from spot removal effects.
Lol. That's why I wanted to check; sometimes I miss something that should be obvious.
That's the reason for me running Sculptor. It was Helm of Awakening, but I don't want to give everyone discounts.
Nope, you're totally right. However, something else that allows Top to fuel itself alongside Future Sight and Urza is Sai, Master Thopterist. That will draw your deck definitively, since Sai will create a new mana rock each time you cast Top.
Any cards you think I should add in my analysis for Oona?
Nope because she's terrible in cEDH with both UB so why would she be good as U lol
It's ok, Jiv. I don't see how Oona is terrible in the cEDH meta, whether Dimir colors or Mono-Blue. In fact, at this point she would probably do well since she's perceived as being "less-good" than other Commanders, so people might ignore or discount your deck from the cEDH game. Nothing like sucker-punching the table with Queen of the Fae!
In other news, I've been seriously thinking about whether or not Power Artifact is worth the deckspace. It's only good with the Monoliths, and I'm inclined to add in Future Sight to the deck to make Top a winning line instead of the Monoliths. I'll keep pondering on it and see what other peeps of the cEDH community think.
The link for the new Urza thread on MTGNexus will be coming shortly. To check out my Memnarch thread, which is a great way of showcasing Nexus' coding power and to give you an idea of how I'll be formatting all of my future Primers, click on the link here.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It's been a great time being a member of this community. Truly, this site has been a lifeline for me in my lowest life moments and I've grown and developed as a player in direct response to the feedback I've received, the comments I've read, and the decklists I've perused on this site. MTGSal has been my online MTG home since 2009 and I have nothing but fond memories of this site.
However, in light of the closure announcement of MTGSal and its attendant 11th hour resurrection, I have personally decided to commit myself fully to the MTGNexus project that Feyd_Ruin has started. My reasoning, which I hope you'll respect and appreciate, is explained below.
It's been a great adventure on MTGSal, and I'll be stepping down from all responsibilities on MTGSal by the end of 7/11/2019 at the official launch of MTGNexus and will be removing all of my content, with the exception of decklists from MTGSal as a site. I will NOT be updating the MTGSal threads and will not be actively contributing to MTGSal except on the rare occassion that my fancy is struck.
I wish you the best journey should you remain on MTGSal, but I would encourage you to give MTGNexus a try. It's already got a lot of participation and a large segment of the MTGSal community has already made the jump.
Why not you? It's your chance to start over fresh, contribute in a meaningful way to a new platform, and have a chance to positively shape what will become the premier MTG site on the internet.
Adieu, my friends!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Additionally, I'll be removing ALL of my content from MTGSal and transitioning over to MTGNexus, as a heads up. I recommend checking it out, as it's a beautiful new platform with an awesome staff, super cool coding capabilities, and the same functionality of MTGSal. I'll be making a formal post in the cEDH forums and the regular Commander forums to persuade people to switch over, so stay tuned.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
This thread and all of my Primers will be taken down and moved to the new site.
The Cage is a general meta call. There's a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that I consistently see, and Hulk decks are top of the Tier in cEDH, so it's a great general inclusion.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
@Wraith
I think I'm inclined to disagree with you. While I'm waiting to test out my deck until I get my paper cards in the mail, I think that between Sai, Urza, and new Karn, there should be plenty of targets for Arcum's ability. We only really need to activate him once for him to have paid off and he gets especially broken with Sai. Time will tell.
This thread and all of my Primers will be moving over to the new site, once it's up and running. They're doing some final tweaks now and some server integration/updating, but it looks like it could be ready before the week is over.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
It really depends. I've had great success with both Dispel AND Mental Misstep. I think that the Misstep hits a more varied sort of permanents while also stopping some of the relevant counterspells you would see that break up your turn while Dispel safeguards your combo turn pretty solidly. I prefer to be a little bit more proactive with my control elements, so I'd personally recommend the Misstep. You could run either of them and be totally fine.
I'm really high on Force of Negation, personally. Having another pseudo Force of Will effect is always welcome and the 1UU to defend a combo turn is not THAT big of a deal, particularly in a big mana deck like Urza. I highly recommend running it, since this deck is mostly afraid of non-creature spells comboing out before we can. Looking at you, Flash Hulk and Food Chain...
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I think that there are better draw effects available to the deck? And if Urza were to somehow not stay in play, than the Mine does benefit the table. Not the worst thing I suppose, but the fact that it helps the table when Urza ISN'T in play seems like a strike against the card, in my mind.
Yeah, I'm of the opinion that Shackles is better than the Allure. Being a repeatable effect is the bee's knees (where did this expression even come from??) and it helps increase the Artifact density in the deck. It's tutorable via the majority of the tutors in the deck and it can be cast and activated the turn it comes into play, more often than not. I like Shackles and have always liked Shackles and will continue to run it in any mono-Blue deck.
I think you should play both, Jiv.
Yes, a moment of peace and respect for the Mad Mechanical Memnarch.
*bows head*
Yeah, Echo of Eons is a godsend to budget cEDH players. I'm so glad they printed one. Now, they just need a functional [CARD}Transmute Artifact[/CARD} replacement.
I think you're underestimating the Future Sight combos. All of the pieces are individually good and Future Sight + Engine is really awesome too. I'm now at the point where I'm beginning to consider Future Sight as a staple card (for me).
I can't wait for my Urza to get here!
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
I'm not a fan of Mill win-conditions anymore. There's a Gitrog and a Shuffle Hulk player in my playgroup that both run Eldrazi titans, so I won't be adding in the Shredder anytime soon. And if I'm going infinite with Dramatic Scepter, I'm probably going to just play Urza and dump that mana into his activated ability to cast every spell in the deck (except the ones that would cause me to mill myself out).
Not sure what I'd cut for good 'ol Snappy. Any suggestions?
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Yeah, still trying to find room for Unwinding Clock. Not sure what I should cut, although Skyship Weatherlight is a likely candidate, even as sad of a flavor loss that is.
I'd rather play Spell Pierce or Flusterstorm over Essence Flux, if you're trying to protect Urza. They have a larger range of uses than simply protecting Urza from spot removal effects.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
Nope, you're totally right. However, something else that allows Top to fuel itself alongside Future Sight and Urza is Sai, Master Thopterist. That will draw your deck definitively, since Sai will create a new mana rock each time you cast Top.
It's ok, Jiv. I don't see how Oona is terrible in the cEDH meta, whether Dimir colors or Mono-Blue. In fact, at this point she would probably do well since she's perceived as being "less-good" than other Commanders, so people might ignore or discount your deck from the cEDH game. Nothing like sucker-punching the table with Queen of the Fae!
In other news, I've been seriously thinking about whether or not Power Artifact is worth the deckspace. It's only good with the Monoliths, and I'm inclined to add in Future Sight to the deck to make Top a winning line instead of the Monoliths. I'll keep pondering on it and see what other peeps of the cEDH community think.
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager
UB Dralnu, Lich Lord
RBW [Primer]-Kaalia of the Vast
BUG [Primer]-Tasigur, the Golden Fang
GWU [Primer]-Arcades, the Strategist
WUB Primer-Aminatou, the Fateshifter
UBR Nicol Bolas, the Ravager