So, they have this listed as simply "Junk", but it's obviously Reanimator with a little alteration. They cut mana dorks for Farseek and Deathrite (I know Deathrite had already seen a little play in regular lists). What do you all think. I like that it makes the backup midrange plan easier, but losing the mana dorks kind of kills some of the nut draws that lead to free wins. I need to test it, but not sure how I feel looking at it. Obviously it did well for him. Also, 6 colorless lands seems crazy (I guess Cavern only needs Angel or Beast, but that isn't always doable early on).
I'm a little on the fence as to whether or not I like this build. No mana dorks to accelerate your turn 3 play to turn 2. But Farseek obviously is more stable against board wipes.
But like, my main question would be in what situations does he "go midrange" and Obzedat, Sigarda and Garruk? Is it still against any white midrange list that sides Rest in Peace? And does he just take out the whole "combo" minus 2 Rites perhaps?
Otherwise, I like it. Kind of a built in hate against the Rites mirror with the lack of dorks and DRS. You kind of lose the potency of Craterhoofing off of 2-3 dorks against other midrange decks game one. But you also don't get blown out by surpreme verdict.
Yeah. I'm not sure the craterhoofs wouldn't be better as slimes or obzedats since the mana dorks are gone. I know he has lingering souls still, but if he's going for just strength without necessitating the combo I think I'd like to not risk craterhoof simply being a 6/6 haste. But I guess even that isn't too bad
So that player is at my local shop and played amazingly throughout the day and whenever I've seen him actually. He figured acceleration wasn't how he was winning anyway, but setting up chains of CA situations was better. He also crushed the mirror all day including a quick 2-0 in the last round to go X-1.
Yeah. I'm not sure the craterhoofs wouldn't be better as slimes or obzedats since the mana dorks are gone. I know he has lingering souls still, but if he's going for just strength without necessitating the combo I think I'd like to not risk craterhoof simply being a 6/6 haste. But I guess even that isn't too bad
You don't get the "oops I win" aspect of Rites'ing in Craterhoof turn 4 with a dork and 2 Lingering Souls, but you still get the power of hardcasting this (or Rites'ing) in Craterhoof when you have a Resto Angel and a Beast token and dealing 20 trample damage to beat control/midrange.
I think you have a point though, and I ran into someone the other day that had Craterhoof in the side and maindecked 3 Acidic Slime and 2 Obzedat. So... maybe there is some merit to that. Maybe go with Obzedat main, Hoof side.
I think against the mirror you have slightly better odds (and I suppose game 1 against control), with main deck Deathrite Shamans. They basically act as dorks in the mirror, and obviously shut down Rites.
And I'm actually wondering if Lingering Souls might be a card worth taking out now that we aren't as reliant on Craterhoof. And that's kind of something that worries me because without explosive Craterhoof plays, the only things we really want to reanimate are Thragtusk and AoS. I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing though.
I think this blurs the line between Reanimator/Hoof and Junk Mid. personally I feel losing the dorks throws away the explosiveness of the deck that makes it so good to begin with. if we're inbreeding to fight the mirror, I'd rather just chuck two dorks and make them deathrites instead of throwing the whole thing out to add farseek to the mix.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
i placed 3rd in the 1st wmcq and virtually top 8'd in the 2nd (i let my friend win round 7 since the event started late and i need to catch a flight in the evening which i'll surely miss if i played in top 8).
i run 6 dorks and 2 Somberwald Sages main with healers in board. maindeck shamans are kinda ok but is usually a dead card in most matchups. id rather wish that will be a dork to let me go off faster and cast Souls turn 2 for more pump for the oncoming Behemoth in turn 4 or 5.
i'll still keep my Hoofs in main since i only want to side it out against aggro. against control, Slimes come in in place of Thragtusks and that's virtually enough to stall them.
the list in the first post looks like it will have some problems against fast decks.
the deck needs to go off fast since it has the ability to do so thanks to dorks. we then adjust postboard depending on the matchup but without dorks, i feel it will be a difficult game 1 which we usually have the advantage on.
This is frankly just being ignorant. People dont complain that expensive things exist, they get annoyed when there are no alternatives to the expensive versions of cards.
Its a card game. People want to play the card game. They arent mad that certain pieces of cardboard are rare and collectable. They get upset when there arent alternative printings that allow them to play the game.
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3 Angel of Serenity
3 Centaur Healer
2 Craterhoof Behemoth
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Restoration Angel
4 Thragtusk
2 Forest
2 Cavern of Souls
2 Gavony Township
2 Godless Shrine
4 Overgrown Tomb
3 Sunpetal Grove
4 Temple Garden
2 Vault of the Archangel
2 Woodland Cemetery
4 Farseek
3 Lingering Souls
4 Mulch
4 Unburial Rites
2 Acidic Slime
2 Deathrite Shaman
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Obzedat, Ghost Council
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
2 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Sever the Bloodline
1 Cavern of Souls
So, they have this listed as simply "Junk", but it's obviously Reanimator with a little alteration. They cut mana dorks for Farseek and Deathrite (I know Deathrite had already seen a little play in regular lists). What do you all think. I like that it makes the backup midrange plan easier, but losing the mana dorks kind of kills some of the nut draws that lead to free wins. I need to test it, but not sure how I feel looking at it. Obviously it did well for him. Also, 6 colorless lands seems crazy (I guess Cavern only needs Angel or Beast, but that isn't always doable early on).
But like, my main question would be in what situations does he "go midrange" and Obzedat, Sigarda and Garruk? Is it still against any white midrange list that sides Rest in Peace? And does he just take out the whole "combo" minus 2 Rites perhaps?
Otherwise, I like it. Kind of a built in hate against the Rites mirror with the lack of dorks and DRS. You kind of lose the potency of Craterhoofing off of 2-3 dorks against other midrange decks game one. But you also don't get blown out by surpreme verdict.
You don't get the "oops I win" aspect of Rites'ing in Craterhoof turn 4 with a dork and 2 Lingering Souls, but you still get the power of hardcasting this (or Rites'ing) in Craterhoof when you have a Resto Angel and a Beast token and dealing 20 trample damage to beat control/midrange.
I think you have a point though, and I ran into someone the other day that had Craterhoof in the side and maindecked 3 Acidic Slime and 2 Obzedat. So... maybe there is some merit to that. Maybe go with Obzedat main, Hoof side.
2 Centaur Healer
3 Restoration Angel
3 Acidic Slime
4 Thragtusk
3 Angel of Serenity
1 Abrupt Decay
4 Farseek
3 Mulch
4 Grisly Salvage
3 Lingering Souls
4 Unburial Rites
4 Temple Garden
2 Godless Shrine
2 Isolated Chapel
2 Woodland Cemetery
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Gavony Township
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Forest
Seems consistent enough. Need some more games against aggro and to finish the board, though.
And I'm actually wondering if Lingering Souls might be a card worth taking out now that we aren't as reliant on Craterhoof. And that's kind of something that worries me because without explosive Craterhoof plays, the only things we really want to reanimate are Thragtusk and AoS. I don't know if that's a bad thing or a good thing though.
i run 6 dorks and 2 Somberwald Sages main with healers in board. maindeck shamans are kinda ok but is usually a dead card in most matchups. id rather wish that will be a dork to let me go off faster and cast Souls turn 2 for more pump for the oncoming Behemoth in turn 4 or 5.
i'll still keep my Hoofs in main since i only want to side it out against aggro. against control, Slimes come in in place of Thragtusks and that's virtually enough to stall them.
the list in the first post looks like it will have some problems against fast decks.
the deck needs to go off fast since it has the ability to do so thanks to dorks. we then adjust postboard depending on the matchup but without dorks, i feel it will be a difficult game 1 which we usually have the advantage on.