What's the best three-mana creature to run at or near the top of your curve in a pretty standard, Sligh-esque RDW build? The top contenders I can think of ATM:
Countryside Crusher
Pros: Efficient body at a minimum, and potentially enormous. Guarantees that you'll hit "gas."
Cons: Places sizeable constraints on deck design (you don't want to drop Crusher "on the curve" if you run any spells that cost 4+ mana). Just a vanilla body, easily killed.
Ashenmoor Gouger
Pros: Huge body for the cost. Immune to Terror and Shriekmaw; survives Firespout.
Cons: A vanilla body that also can't block, which can make racing difficult in some circumstances.
Boggart Ram-Gang
Pros: Haste is good, and wither makes it a fearless attacker into bigger defenders.
Cons: ???
Inner-Flame Acolyte
Pros: Hits for 4 damage right away.
Cons: Can't think of any reason (other than Elemental tribal) to run it over Boggart Ram-Gang.
Which one is typically best? Or is there another 3cc red body that I've overlooked?
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Magus of the moon is the best 3 mana guy for RDW. It can randomly screw a lot of decks, even ones with answers and/or basics. Ram-gang is really good too.
After those two, Gouger is probably the best, for the reasons mentioned- Firespout, Nameless Inversion, Lash Out, etc. 4 toughness is a magical number right now.
Are you running pure burn RDW, or creature-based RDW?
In pure burn, MotM and Ram-Gang are better picks.
In creature-based, MotM and CCrusher are better imo.
What's the best three-mana creature to run at or near the top of your curve in a pretty standard, Sligh-esque RDW build? The top contenders I can think of ATM:
Countryside Crusher
Pros: Efficient body at a minimum, and potentially enormous. Guarantees that you'll hit "gas."
Cons: Places sizeable constraints on deck design (you don't want to drop Crusher "on the curve" if you run any spells that cost 4+ mana). Just a vanilla body, easily killed.
Ashenmoor Gouger
Pros: Huge body for the cost. Immune to Terror and Shriekmaw; survives Firespout.
Cons: A vanilla body that also can't block, which can make racing difficult in some circumstances.
Boggart Ram-Gang
Pros: Haste is good, and wither makes it a fearless attacker into bigger defenders.
Cons: ???
Inner-Flame Acolyte
Pros: Hits for 4 damage right away.
Cons: Can't think of any reason (other than Elemental tribal) to run it over Boggart Ram-Gang.
Which one is typically best? Or is there another 3cc red body that I've overlooked?
Don't forget that Gouger and Ram Gang are 3 R symbols.... Fiery Bombardment, Heartlash Cinder....
I really like the ram gang personally
I think Moon hurts alot of people who run the Quick N Toast decks most of the time. So its worth running.
Inner Flame Acolyte is good for giving other creatures haste, thats the only reason you'd play it more then Ram Gang.
Gang also takes out finks.
Moon is the best with ram gang following and Crusher's garbage don't even consider it as a choice, I would rather run cryoclasm main over crusher....
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Can't believe I forgot Magus of the Moon... I'm already looking forward to TSB's rotation.
I think I'm really liking the Gouger, for its aforementioned sturdiness. It seems like it would help a lot in the mirror match, forcing other RDW to use at least two cards to get rid of it.
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Can't believe I forgot Magus of the Moon... I'm already looking forward to TSB's rotation.
I think I'm really liking the Gouger, for its aforementioned sturdiness. It seems like it would help a lot in the mirror match, forcing other RDW to use at least two cards to get rid of it.
They will Flame Javelin it.
I was going to say Boggart Ram-Gang, but after seeing the other option of Magus of the Moon, I'll have to agree.
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Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
I would have to say that Magus of the Moon is the best 3 drop that RDW has. I also think that Boggart-Ram Gang and Ashenmoor Gouger are also good for this deck. I had Countryside Crusher in my RDW for a while and it was okay, but when I saw Ashenmoor Gouger I had to try a couple of them out.
Ashenmoor Gouger can also survive a Sulfurous Blast. Right now I run 4 Ram-Gangs and 2 Gougers in my deck and it seems to working great. I have thought about doing three of each and I have to see if that will work.
Hell yes. It gives you a strong 1st game against faeries, quick n toast, and Reveillark. Then again, RDW already has a strong game against Lark, but that's besides the point. IMO, I would run 3 Magus, 3 Gouger, because they are both strong creatures.
Also, sideboarding idea that may sound crazy. Game 2 vs Fae, side out the magus for ram-gang or gouger. The reasoning: Faeries sides in their Murderous Redcap to deal with the magus. If you side in something that won't be effected by their redcap, it means that their "tech" is useless against your bigger-toughness guys.
i agree with almost everyone here, Magus of the Moon, do you know how many decks there are out there right now that dont even have any basic lands? like ZOMG Soooo many. Magus of the moon totally screws those decks over. And when rotation occurs i would but in the ram gang. But honestly i wouldnt really put creatures in. id put in the mountain that comes into play tapped with the 1R becomes a 2/1 first strike.
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yea gargadon is too slow for RDW and Crusher is even slower. Both are garbage for the deck.
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Ram-Gang is great.
Magus is great.
Crusher is good, but can hurt you, but luck most burn doesn't cost more than 3.
Gouger is ok.
Ram-Gang and Gouger are the only directly comparable ones here and when you compare the damage give it's:
/RG-AG
1:3 -0
2:6 -4
3:9 -8
4:12-12
Sure the 4 toughness is good, but once the opponent gets a */5 creature out it's over for the gouger, and the Gang brings is down to 2 after a hit. Not to mention the haste makes the Ram gangs better in multiples. Say you played a Ram-Gang every turn (Theoretical of course)
/RG-AG
1:3 -0
2:9 -4
3:18-12
4:30-24
Not to mention R/G matches the maniacs so you can add a single liege and make them both get +2/+2 instead of +1/+1.
And in RDW wins you're looking for speed over everything. That's why Mudbrawler Cohort is underrated but still a great 2 drop. Though Blood Knight and Keldon are also great.
The new Hobgoblin is great too. Not in RDW because the Ram Gang is still better, but in R/W. Buy two R/W precons and you have a good deck already. 2 Lieges, 6 Hobgoblins, (WTF? Goof for a precon) 4 Scourge's. (Great on the hobgoblins) Cut the crap, and some Hammers and Burn spells and you have a good deck.
Magus by far! hurts so many mana bases. I main 4 firespout and 2 slaughter pact in Q&T becasue I've been overly wrecked by him. Hurts fae somethin fierce too.
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Quote from Shin about Great Sable Stag »
I swear, this card has "protection from Chris Jobin," and its rather infuriating.
-*** and others protection
-fun with treathenlike stuff
-its a 9/7 with haste! a 9/7 is pretty big for red wich green aggro kan have trouble dealing with
-tons of others small uses: stopping lifelink,stopping sower, can be used as surpise blocker
fun with epochrasite countrysite crusher etc.
- its not *** protection it just turns a bad situation into a not as bad situation actually kinda geting something from it.
-exactly its only fun its not good runing mediocre cards like threaten/word of siezing sounds bad in the first place.
- it is NEVER a supprise blocker as they always now its possible it could down at any moment. Any one who gets supprised by gargadon is a windowlicker and doesnt matter any way.
- the sower situation falls under the *** situation, bad into not so bad.
- What lifelinkers are run in type 2? Its more relivent to say that it stops tendrils but they get run just as much as lifelinkers, almost never.
- what does green matter? faeries just gona counter it and then terror(or just cryptic command counter garg/bounce crusher) your huge crusher because you sac'd all your land to make it huge and try to land the garg.
Both cards lead you into very bad situations.
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I will play what wins, not what is convenient. Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters. I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity. Style points do not appear on tournament reports. A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win. I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him. Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
One Eventide comes and I get the R/W theme deck. I'm definitely going to build a deck Heartfire Hobgoblin and Balefire Liege. It's probably going to be a RW burn deck with Oblivion Ring to help get some of cards the burn spells can't touch.
Right now I'm using 2 Ashenmoor Gougers and 4 Boggart Ram-Gangs in the deck and it's been working out great
Heartfire Hobgoblin could probably work in RDW, but as backup to Boggart Ram-Gang. Like I may exchange the Gougers for the Hobgoblins and see how they do.
Magus and gouger are best. Gouger is better than crusher and ram-gang because it dodges almost all removal (and that is why saito used him). No terror, inversion, shriekmaw, firespout thanks.
But he is not a Goblin, which means he doesn't get the benefit of Goblin King, and Boartusk Liege is much much better than Ashenmoor's.
Furthermore, being black means it can't block Colossus, and Ram-Gang can deal with Persist.
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Countryside Crusher
Pros: Efficient body at a minimum, and potentially enormous. Guarantees that you'll hit "gas."
Cons: Places sizeable constraints on deck design (you don't want to drop Crusher "on the curve" if you run any spells that cost 4+ mana). Just a vanilla body, easily killed.
Ashenmoor Gouger
Pros: Huge body for the cost. Immune to Terror and Shriekmaw; survives Firespout.
Cons: A vanilla body that also can't block, which can make racing difficult in some circumstances.
Boggart Ram-Gang
Pros: Haste is good, and wither makes it a fearless attacker into bigger defenders.
Cons: ???
Inner-Flame Acolyte
Pros: Hits for 4 damage right away.
Cons: Can't think of any reason (other than Elemental tribal) to run it over Boggart Ram-Gang.
Which one is typically best? Or is there another 3cc red body that I've overlooked?
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In pure burn, MotM and Ram-Gang are better picks.
In creature-based, MotM and CCrusher are better imo.
Currently trying to discover the quickest way to get the opponent from 20 to 0.
Magus of the Moon or Boggart Ram-Gang in my opinion. I favor Magus in more ways than one.
Thanks to [High~Light Studios]
I really like the ram gang personally
I think Moon hurts alot of people who run the Quick N Toast decks most of the time. So its worth running.
Inner Flame Acolyte is good for giving other creatures haste, thats the only reason you'd play it more then Ram Gang.
Gang also takes out finks.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I think I'm really liking the Gouger, for its aforementioned sturdiness. It seems like it would help a lot in the mirror match, forcing other RDW to use at least two cards to get rid of it.
I was going to say Boggart Ram-Gang, but after seeing the other option of Magus of the Moon, I'll have to agree.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)and look around every once and a while you could miss it. - ferris bueller
Ashenmoor Gouger can also survive a Sulfurous Blast. Right now I run 4 Ram-Gangs and 2 Gougers in my deck and it seems to working great. I have thought about doing three of each and I have to see if that will work.
Hell yes. It gives you a strong 1st game against faeries, quick n toast, and Reveillark. Then again, RDW already has a strong game against Lark, but that's besides the point. IMO, I would run 3 Magus, 3 Gouger, because they are both strong creatures.
Also, sideboarding idea that may sound crazy. Game 2 vs Fae, side out the magus for ram-gang or gouger. The reasoning: Faeries sides in their Murderous Redcap to deal with the magus. If you side in something that won't be effected by their redcap, it means that their "tech" is useless against your bigger-toughness guys.
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Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
It depends what type of build of RDW you are building. You definitely can replace crusher though.
Awesome banner and avatar thanks to spiderboy4 from highlight studios!
Magus is great.
Crusher is good, but can hurt you, but luck most burn doesn't cost more than 3.
Gouger is ok.
Ram-Gang and Gouger are the only directly comparable ones here and when you compare the damage give it's:
/RG-AG
1:3 -0
2:6 -4
3:9 -8
4:12-12
Sure the 4 toughness is good, but once the opponent gets a */5 creature out it's over for the gouger, and the Gang brings is down to 2 after a hit. Not to mention the haste makes the Ram gangs better in multiples. Say you played a Ram-Gang every turn (Theoretical of course)
/RG-AG
1:3 -0
2:9 -4
3:18-12
4:30-24
Not to mention R/G matches the maniacs so you can add a single liege and make them both get +2/+2 instead of +1/+1.
And in RDW wins you're looking for speed over everything. That's why Mudbrawler Cohort is underrated but still a great 2 drop. Though Blood Knight and Keldon are also great.
The new Hobgoblin is great too. Not in RDW because the Ram Gang is still better, but in R/W. Buy two R/W precons and you have a good deck already. 2 Lieges, 6 Hobgoblins, (WTF? Goof for a precon) 4 Scourge's. (Great on the hobgoblins) Cut the crap, and some Hammers and Burn spells and you have a good deck.
Trade Thread
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=311290
- its not *** protection it just turns a bad situation into a not as bad situation actually kinda geting something from it.
-exactly its only fun its not good runing mediocre cards like threaten/word of siezing sounds bad in the first place.
- it is NEVER a supprise blocker as they always now its possible it could down at any moment. Any one who gets supprised by gargadon is a windowlicker and doesnt matter any way.
- the sower situation falls under the *** situation, bad into not so bad.
- What lifelinkers are run in type 2? Its more relivent to say that it stops tendrils but they get run just as much as lifelinkers, almost never.
- what does green matter? faeries just gona counter it and then terror(or just cryptic command counter garg/bounce crusher) your huge crusher because you sac'd all your land to make it huge and try to land the garg.
Both cards lead you into very bad situations.
Personal preference is nothing, The win is all that matters.
I will netdeck at every opportunity, but I will not let that stifle my creativity.
Style points do not appear on tournament reports.
A good deck with an incompetent pilot is nothing more than a dressed up match win.
I will crush my opponent mercilessly, and expect no less from him.
Victory is its own reward, The prize is just a bonus.
Legacy is dying
I do, personally.
I agree with Magus #1, Ram a close #2
Right now I'm using 2 Ashenmoor Gougers and 4 Boggart Ram-Gangs in the deck and it's been working out great
Heartfire Hobgoblin could probably work in RDW, but as backup to Boggart Ram-Gang. Like I may exchange the Gougers for the Hobgoblins and see how they do.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=2970806 - H/W
But he is not a Goblin, which means he doesn't get the benefit of Goblin King, and Boartusk Liege is much much better than Ashenmoor's.
Furthermore, being black means it can't block Colossus, and Ram-Gang can deal with Persist.