@ChefStix. Duals worked that way for a long time. In the text, it says it counts as both a mountain and an island. If something affects one, it affects both. I heard a rumor (not sure if it was trur) that after I stopped playing that there was some errata'ing around them so that you couldn't fetch it...but apparently it works again like it did (if they ever did change that, not sure).
Anything that targets "island" (or whatever) will work, but NOT a card that specifies "basic land", since its not a basic land. Its a non-basic land that counts as the two basics that are on it. Nature's lore and Land Grant (etc) works, Rampant Growth does not. Blood Crypt works the same way exactly.
I still CANNOT BELIEVE how expensive the duals are compared to when I stopped playing. I remember being angry that I had to pony $20 for my set of Underground Sea from eBay, b/c that was expensive at the time ('98, IIRC). This game has gotten too expensive :mad:.
I'd also like to vote against Future Sight. The triple U and 6 casting cost is hard to manage. On top of that it doesn't really DO anything in this deck - Wild Research can already tutor for everything in the deck so Future Sight seems really redundant and off theme here. I think that's 2-3 votes against it now.
I'll also vote against 4x Lightning Helix. Again, the RW mana cost is somewhat hard to manage. We have Swords for removal, Bolt for burn (and I'm not so sure this is the best choice here) so Helix, as an instant cast spell that doesn't end the game, just feels out of place in a 3-colour mana base.
I'll also place a vote against Disenchant. It seems like a wasted slot compared to the more versatile Oblivion Ring.
My suggestion for today: 1x Leyline of Sanctity for some burn/direct damage/etc. hate and Planeswalker protection (I almost suggested Jace 2.0 today, I figured it might make some people rage though with it being everywhere and all).
you can fetch duels with them? didn't know that. I thought it had to say "mountain" next to land for example.
What is the purpose of the duels such as Blood Crypt that specify "swamp/mountain" then? I always thought they put those there just for the fetch lands.
The older dual lands have been errated to say, in the case of Underground Sea for example, "Land: Island Swamp" in the exact same fashion as the more recent Watery Grave. The massive text box in the dual lands attempts to relay the same point.
Note: Dual lands do not count as basic lands and cannot be fetched with say, Land Tax and, in the same fashion because they are non-basic lands, they can be destroyed by Wasteland/count towards Price of Progress damage/etc..
Well learned something new today. I feel your pain though DrDrum. I remeber back in the day trading away a lightly played condition beta mox jet I won in a local tourney for I believe $80-$90 worth of other cards that I know aren't worth close to the value increase of that mox. Now they are like $700 for one in that good condition.
Well learned something new today. I feel your pain though DrDrum. I remeber back in the day trading away a lightly played condition beta mox jet I won in a local tourney for I believe $80-$90 worth of other cards that I know aren't worth close to the value increase of that mox. Now they are like $700 for one in that good condition.
Heh, that's awesome. I remember seeing a Black Lotus (@ Sibley's Lumber in St. Clair Shores, MI), selling a Black Lotus for $100, and Moxen for less than $100. We still got a guy in our group with a Mox Emerald, its fun to see that hit the table.
Oi, if I had a time machine ;).
On topic, I thought of a card that might still want in this deck...1x Misdirection. Or maybe 1x good'ole Counterspell. We'll see by tomorrow.
I really like lightning helix, however. It gets you 3 life away from dying, deals with pesky creatures, stalls, and does direct burn when necessary. With our land base it shouldn't be hard to pull of RW
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I vote to keep lightning helix. Wild Reasrch arledy costs R and there are dons of dual lands plus the fetches. Lightning Helix seems a very practical card. I vote to keep it in.
I vote out lightning helix. It is a R/W goodstuff card that doesn't fit the theme and doesn't really create any interesting interactions in the deck. I am sure there are better burn spells or better instants in general that we could run in place of it in this deck.
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To be honest, the only point of life that matters is the last point of life which is especially true for both control and combo. In this deck we have Energy Field/Wheel of Sun and Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, Moat, Humility and, to a lesser extent, Standstill. All of these cards prevent damage to us either entirely or at least mostly. The loss/gain of 3 life will likely mean very little in the long run in which case we should probably be running either hate (ex. more Swords to Plowshares) or maybe even some acceleration (ex. Chrome Mox).
Basically, we have no life-gain theme and the fact that we can prevent a ton of damage while at the same time being able to kill things earlier in the game makes the 3 life on Lightning Helix seem way out of place.
I vote to remove Lightning Helix and vote to remove Disenchant. As of Lightning Helix I think we have like 3 or so people on each side, so we should probably just flip a coin to see if it goes or stays.
We have a lot of tutoring but we have basically no draw, as of now our only draw card is 1 x Brainstorm. Therefore, I am gonna nominate 3 x Compulsive Research.
I like the idea of adding a Luminarch Ascension, it gives us another win condition and seems that it would mesh with this deck pretty well.
I vote against Paradigm Shift as I just think it isn't that good of a card and isn't needed in this deck since Wheel of Sun and Moon should make it where we barely have anything in our graveyard most of the time.
For today's nomination I am picking Maze of Ith x 1.
I also vote against Paradigm ☺☺☺☺, as well.
Luminarch seems like a decent card, if we can't get Elspeth online (though we'd need to do something with Humility if that's online...Boomerang?)
I also vote against Paradigm Shift, as well.
Luminarch seems like a decent card, if we can't get Elspeth online (though we'd need to do something with Humility if that's online...Boomerang?)
DRum
I'll vote against Paradigm Shift as well. That makes three.
You'll likely not want to go with a bouncing Humility approach. It makes the deck way more convolted by adding combos (note: not synergies) in a combo in a combo (Ex. Play Humility, play Luminarch, prevent ALL damage for 4 turns, wait 4 turns without taking damage, bounce humility, pray that Luminarch doesn't get nuked, etc.).
To be honest for an alt wincon I'd go with either:
1. Sacred Mesa (Simply create LOTS of tokens with no wait and swarms them)
2. Koth of the Hammer (I haven't looked at the card in a while, I don't play a lot with standard, but I believe his abilities work with dual lands)
3. Gideon Jura
Lastly, is there any reason that 3x Compulsive Research is in over, say, Ponder and Preordain? The later two would lower our curve and allow for additional early game deck manipulation and later game topdeck fixing.
Compulsive Research unlike the two one drop cards creates CA, when a land is dropped. Without Compulsive Reserach the deck's ability to generate CA is a bit underwhelming.
Not that CR is the best way to go, but it's def. better than filtering cantrips.
I also support the closing (?) of this list, and that we start the next GMAD.
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Compulsive Research unlike the two one drop cards creates CA, when a land is dropped. Without Compulsive Reserach the deck's ability to generate CA is a bit underwhelming.
Not that CR is the best way to go, but it's def. better than filtering cantrips.
I also support the closing (?) of this list, and that we start the next GMAD.
Derp. Sorry, I was just waking up when I wrote that initial post.
At any rate, closing this one sounds good. I had fun anyways.
Anything that targets "island" (or whatever) will work, but NOT a card that specifies "basic land", since its not a basic land. Its a non-basic land that counts as the two basics that are on it. Nature's lore and Land Grant (etc) works, Rampant Growth does not. Blood Crypt works the same way exactly.
I still CANNOT BELIEVE how expensive the duals are compared to when I stopped playing. I remember being angry that I had to pony $20 for my set of Underground Sea from eBay, b/c that was expensive at the time ('98, IIRC). This game has gotten too expensive :mad:.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
I'll also vote against 4x Lightning Helix. Again, the RW mana cost is somewhat hard to manage. We have Swords for removal, Bolt for burn (and I'm not so sure this is the best choice here) so Helix, as an instant cast spell that doesn't end the game, just feels out of place in a 3-colour mana base.
I'll also place a vote against Disenchant. It seems like a wasted slot compared to the more versatile Oblivion Ring.
My suggestion for today: 1x Leyline of Sanctity for some burn/direct damage/etc. hate and Planeswalker protection (I almost suggested Jace 2.0 today, I figured it might make some people rage though with it being everywhere and all).
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Plateau
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Plains
1x Mountain
Enchantments: 17
3x Wild Research
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Cleansing Fire
1x Future Sight (Voted: 2)
1x Energy Field
1x Attunement
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Standstill
1x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Helix (Voted: 2?)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Disenchant (Voted: 1)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Comet Storm
2x Volcanic Fallout
Planeswalkers: 2
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts: 2
2x Sensei's Divining Top
The older dual lands have been errated to say, in the case of Underground Sea for example, "Land: Island Swamp" in the exact same fashion as the more recent Watery Grave. The massive text box in the dual lands attempts to relay the same point.
Note: Dual lands do not count as basic lands and cannot be fetched with say, Land Tax and, in the same fashion because they are non-basic lands, they can be destroyed by Wasteland/count towards Price of Progress damage/etc..
Legacy:
WGMaverickWG
UMerfolkU
WStaxW
XRaffinityX
BRGoblins RB
RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
"Casual:"
BVampiresB
WMWCW
GElfdraziG
WWhite WeenieW
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UGMadnessUG
UBPsychatogUB
GWAstral SlideGW
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WStaxW
XRaffinityX
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RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
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BVampiresB
WMWCW
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Heh, that's awesome. I remember seeing a Black Lotus (@ Sibley's Lumber in St. Clair Shores, MI), selling a Black Lotus for $100, and Moxen for less than $100. We still got a guy in our group with a Mox Emerald, its fun to see that hit the table.
Oi, if I had a time machine ;).
On topic, I thought of a card that might still want in this deck...1x Misdirection. Or maybe 1x good'ole Counterspell. We'll see by tomorrow.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Plateau
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Plains
1x Mountain
Enchantments: 17
3x Wild Research
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Cleansing Fire
1x Attunement
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Standstill
1x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Helix (Voted: 2?)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
1x Disenchant (Voted: 1)
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Comet Storm
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts: 2
2x Sensei's Divining Top
I really like lightning helix, however. It gets you 3 life away from dying, deals with pesky creatures, stalls, and does direct burn when necessary. With our land base it shouldn't be hard to pull of RW
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=287019
You should tell me how much it sucks. Really, I can take it.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
To be honest, the only point of life that matters is the last point of life which is especially true for both control and combo. In this deck we have Energy Field/Wheel of Sun and Moon, Leyline of Sanctity, Moat, Humility and, to a lesser extent, Standstill. All of these cards prevent damage to us either entirely or at least mostly. The loss/gain of 3 life will likely mean very little in the long run in which case we should probably be running either hate (ex. more Swords to Plowshares) or maybe even some acceleration (ex. Chrome Mox).
Basically, we have no life-gain theme and the fact that we can prevent a ton of damage while at the same time being able to kill things earlier in the game makes the 3 life on Lightning Helix seem way out of place.
Legacy:
WGMaverickWG
UMerfolkU
WStaxW
XRaffinityX
BRGoblins RB
RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
"Casual:"
BVampiresB
WMWCW
GElfdraziG
WWhite WeenieW
BWClericsBW
UGMadnessUG
UBPsychatogUB
GWAstral SlideGW
We have a lot of tutoring but we have basically no draw, as of now our only draw card is 1 x Brainstorm. Therefore, I am gonna nominate 3 x Compulsive Research.
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Plateau
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Plains
1x Mountain
Enchantments: 17
3x Wild Research
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Cleansing Fire
1x Attunement
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Standstill
1x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Helix (Voted: 2?)
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Comet Storm
2x Volcanic Fallout
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts: 2
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Sorceries: 3
3 Compulsive Research
23 Lands
41 Non Lands
64 Total Cards
LOL, I don't think this GMaD is ever going to end!!!!!!!!
--------------------------------------
"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Plateau
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Plains
1x Mountain
Enchantments: 16
3x Wild Research
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Cleansing Fire
1x Energy Field
1x Attunement
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Standstill
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Comet Storm
2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Argivian Find
Planeswalkers: 2
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
Artifacts: 2
2x Sensei's Divining Top
3 Compulsive Research
WUGTreva, the Enchantress
WURZedruu the Donate-Hearted
WUBRGSliver Queen 5color Fun
RUGAnimar Fun-Times
XXXKarn Artifact Fun
RUBYour Lord & Master Nicol Bolas
UR DRAGOOOOOOONS starring Niv Mizzet
UGEdric, Stompy Master
WRGisela, Dealer of Damage
UWKangee Birdemic
GRWort, the Spell Copierer
Since we have so much damage prevention perhaps 1x luminarch ascension in the toolbox to allow us to have some creatures
It may be too slow but I don't see this deck winning by turn 6 or 7 anyway
I won't add it to the list yet just in case people hate on the idea. Thoughts?
The Mimeoplasm
Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Rhys the Redeemed
Merieke Ri Berit
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Cromat Wurm Tribal
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Looking for Green friendly EDH players/groups in the Toronto area. PM me if this is you.
It looks like a prety sweet deck :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
The Mimeoplasm
Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Rhys the Redeemed
Merieke Ri Berit
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Cromat Wurm Tribal
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Looking for Green friendly EDH players/groups in the Toronto area. PM me if this is you.
I vote against Paradigm Shift as I just think it isn't that good of a card and isn't needed in this deck since Wheel of Sun and Moon should make it where we barely have anything in our graveyard most of the time.
For today's nomination I am picking Maze of Ith x 1.
So the deck now looks like this:
4x Arid Mesa
4x Flooded Strand
4x Plateau
4x Tundra
3x Volcanic Island
3x Plains
1x Mountain
1x Maze of Ith
Enchantments: 16
3x Wild Research
1x Leyline of Sanctity
1x Moat
1x Humility
1x Honden of Seeing Winds
1x Honden of Infinite Rage
1x Honden of Cleansing Fire
1x Energy Field
1x Attunement
2x Wheel of Sun and Moon
2x Oblivion Ring
1x Standstill
1x Paradigm Shift (-1 Vote)
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Brainstorm
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Swords to Plowshares
2x Enlightened Tutor
1x Comet Storm
2x Volcanic Fallout
1x Argivian Find
Planeswalkers: 2
2x Elspeth, Knight Errant
2x Sensei's Divining Top
Sorceries: 3
3x Compulsive Research
24 Lands
38 Non Lands
62 Total Cards
--------------------------------------
"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
Luminarch seems like a decent card, if we can't get Elspeth online (though we'd need to do something with Humility if that's online...Boomerang?)
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
I'll vote against Paradigm Shift as well. That makes three.
You'll likely not want to go with a bouncing Humility approach. It makes the deck way more convolted by adding combos (note: not synergies) in a combo in a combo (Ex. Play Humility, play Luminarch, prevent ALL damage for 4 turns, wait 4 turns without taking damage, bounce humility, pray that Luminarch doesn't get nuked, etc.).
To be honest for an alt wincon I'd go with either:
1. Sacred Mesa (Simply create LOTS of tokens with no wait and swarms them)
2. Koth of the Hammer (I haven't looked at the card in a while, I don't play a lot with standard, but I believe his abilities work with dual lands)
3. Gideon Jura
Lastly, is there any reason that 3x Compulsive Research is in over, say, Ponder and Preordain? The later two would lower our curve and allow for additional early game deck manipulation and later game topdeck fixing.
Legacy:
WGMaverickWG
UMerfolkU
WStaxW
XRaffinityX
BRGoblins RB
RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
"Casual:"
BVampiresB
WMWCW
GElfdraziG
WWhite WeenieW
BWClericsBW
UGMadnessUG
UBPsychatogUB
GWAstral SlideGW
Not that CR is the best way to go, but it's def. better than filtering cantrips.
I also support the closing (?) of this list, and that we start the next GMAD.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Derp. Sorry, I was just waking up when I wrote that initial post.
At any rate, closing this one sounds good. I had fun anyways.
Legacy:
WGMaverickWG
UMerfolkU
WStaxW
XRaffinityX
BRGoblins RB
RBUTESRBU
UGW Countersliver UGW
UB Dredge UB
U W CounterThopter U W
"Casual:"
BVampiresB
WMWCW
GElfdraziG
WWhite WeenieW
BWClericsBW
UGMadnessUG
UBPsychatogUB
GWAstral SlideGW
RBurn
G Agro Elves
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass