Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Voting for 2 epochrasite. Could be increased if people like what it does. Excellent early chump blocker, excellent target for Tezzeret, and he gets bigger from proliferate/bairn.
Don't have anything to vote down so far, but I do feel this is going all over the place and it will probably have to get under control before too long.
Again I want to reiterate like a few people have already for everyone to please remember to keep updated votes in each lists and to repost the deck whenever they suggest a card. Also please put the number of total cards in the deck under the deck so we know the updated number of cards in the list for each post.
I am also gonna vote to up Opposition to four copies.
Lastly, for today I am going to add one copy of Fact or Fiction as we are going to need some draw and it is one of the best draw spells available, only adding one because it is restricted in Vintage.
i'm going to to go into bat for Scute Mob, Phantom Centaur and Murkfiend Liege.
3 good creatures that combo very well with the gilder. they are also strong creatures in their own right and we aren't dead in the water if we don't get the gilder out.
the jitte should also stay as well as the tangle wire.
i don't get were you're coming from rchards cutting cards that combo with our main card then suggesting a random card like fact or fiction.
im going to vote to remove Tangle wire, and suggest parallax tide as a 4 off, at worst it can help slow down the opponet and at best can be used with bairn to remove all there lands from game
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
I also like to imagine that he has a rotating torso (like a metallic graft that fuses his upper and lower body together), so he can spin all around, leveling everything within 20ft of him to rubble.
i'm going to also vote against FoF, as i don't see the point of one copy, also i'm voting against counterspell, I've never had luck with a deck with only 4 counter spells and i think if were going to put something in as a 4 off we need draw spells. -1 to thrumming bird,also -1 to eternity vessel, i think its too slow for the deck. i'm also gonna say to keep centaur and scute mob, like noodle said, there good creatures on there own and are great when u get the bairn out.
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
Also of note is that Fact or Fiction is the only draw spell in our entire deck and it has almost been voted out. So basically if we don't get Gilder Bairn in our starting hand or our first few draws we are absolutely screwed.
The deck really needs lower costed artifacts that are worthy of being tutored up by Tezzeret the Seeker and artifact lands or we should just take out Tezzeret the Seeker as it is completely useless because we could just put in Trinket Mage which can tutor up for Paradise Mantle which seems to be the only real target for Tezzeret.
Also Calciform Pools makes white and blue mana and this is a blue green deck, so why exactly is that card in this deck?
Also a creature which really should have been in this deck is Plaxcaster Frogling since it can give any of our creatures with counters on them shroud, and Lorescale Coatl would have been one of the best creatures for this deck in color if we would have actually included some draw in the deck.
I am going to vote to keep Counterspell as it is basically the only form of defense in our whole deck.
I am also going to vote to remove Calciform Pools and the Forest and the Island, as stated above the artifact lands would be better than them in this deck.
i think this is the first time i've posted in a gmad,
i don't really know what you do when you repost the list with your votes, can the person below please fill me in on how to do it...
and i think that worldly tutor and jace beleren should be considered
worldly tutor because we need guilder bairn and jace because it's good card draw that works with bairn
sorry if i've suggested too many changes, if so please fill me in on the rules of this thing and ignore me =]
so i think that this deck is still kinda unfocused a bit, i agree with the tezz sentiment, i think we either need a bigger tool box for him to make more effective or to cut him, I'll second cutting tezz garruk and the burst and parallax tide all to 2. i think i already voted against thrummingbird, and will vote against murkfield liege.and i'll say(again i think)that the tangle wire seems out of place here, i dont think were going for control as much as combo in this deck. i think we should keep the epochrasite if we keep tezz, he comes in as a 4/4 if tutored and recurs. i'll go to bat for the stealthsuit, as we have not protection for the bairn, but only as a 1 or 2 off. and i think worldly tutor is good, but i still think we need some draw, jace can be good for that, but what to cut for him?? oh yeah cut calicform pools it has no place here. oh and tezz needs some artifact lands for sure. vote to replace calciform with two each seat of the synod and tree of tales
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
I vote:
+1 to keep fact of fiction. We need the draw.
+1 to cut garruk to two. he really doesn't do too much, and isn't necessary in multiples.
+1 vote to remove garruk entirely. Again, we don't need him.
+1 vote to remove 2 copies of tangle wire. We can tutor it with Tezzeret.
+1 vote to keep tangle wire. It taps all their stuff and is generally very good.
-1 vote to cut tez. I like the toolbox ability it gives us.
+1 vote to replace calciform pools with artifact lands.
+1 vote against eternity vessel. We don't need it for the deck, and it can't be tutored.
+1 vote to decrease opposition to 2. It lets us tap down our opponents lands during their upkeep and use the bairn on their turn.
+1 vote to the -murkfiend liege. We can already tap the bairn and don't need it untapped, and the bairn already makes our creatures larger. This cuts the liege.
+1 vote to remove thrumming bird. It's neat, but unnecessary.
+1 vote to remove darksteel reactor. It can't be tutored and won't win quickly, as well as make us a huge target.
+1 vote to decrease saproling burst to 2 copies. We do not need it to win, it is only a fun card. What the deck needs is draw spells and tutors.
+1 vote to decrease parallax tide to 2. Again, we need draw and tutors, not win-more cards. This causes it to drop to 2.
+1 vote to cut lux cannon. We already have things that will kill things, specifically parallax tide. What isn't killed is tapped, by tangle wire.
+1 vote to go down to 1 copy of paradise mantle. Its tutorable, we don't need more.
+1 vote to keep umezawa's jitte. It can wreck an opponents board very quickly.
+1 vote to remove scute mob. Yes its good with counters, but its really bad in a control deck and that what this is going to be.
+1 vote to keep counterspell. Counters are always good, and for this deck to work it needs a control shell.
Notes:
1. Not sure if that was 2 votes on the saproling burst for or against moving it down to 2 copies. Does anyone know? If they were 2 votes against losing two copies, we need to lose those two copies. Our 5 cmc slot is clogged.
2. I added Impulse because we need draw badly, and this is one of the better ones. I agree that worldly tutor is also needed here, but I think that impulse is more vital.
3. I really think that darksteel reactor, lux cannon and eternity vessel need to go. They are neat but do nothing for the deck that it can't already do, and the lifegain from eternity vessel is unimportant.
4. Scute Mob and Thrumming Bird need to go, through thrumming bird has the better case for staying. Scute Mob is only useful in aggressive ramp decks, and this is not one of them.
5. Current Cards: 75. Removing scute mob, thrumming bird, lux cannon, darksteel reactor, 3x paradise mantle, eternity vessel, and garruk, would leave us with 58 cards. We would still need to cull the lists more to add in worldly tutor or other counterspells.
6. Also, the version of the deck I typed up is easier to copy and paste and works just as well.
7. I would request that people hold off on non-card draw or non-counterspell suggestions, and only submit those sparingly because we need more of them. Remember, counters serve as protection for out Gilder Bairn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Winner of the August CCL '10
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
second that, from what i've tested the reactor can end the game even when things look dark, and the mantle have to stay, having just one makes no sense, so either we have to have it or tezz in our opening. so it should at most be cut to 3, but even then im not sure
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
It's actually an instant win if the combo is online (Gilder + Mantle + TG) and it has a charge counter (or if we used a Coretapper).
Fair enough, but then this changes from a control deck to a combo deck, and which would require many more cards to be changed to accelerate into the combo faster and protect the combo. I thought the direction was to control the game with gilder bairn and its shenanigans with other enchantments and artifacts (parallax wave and tangle wire)
We're light on land for a control deck, the mantles are a crucial piece of the infinite combo and they work as a light form of ramp (and it's the only ramp we have). I'm not seeing the argument for reducing them as rational.
I had been looking at it as more of a card to be tutored for with tezzeret to help the bairn pay for itself as opposed to a form of ramp. If it was being used for that, then we should add more lands and not require our creatures to tap for mana instead of turning sideways or using their abilities.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Winner of the August CCL '10
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
1 vote to remove a single Paradise Mantle. The deck needs methods for tapping Bairn, but 4 seems like a waste of space. Slimming to 3 ensures that it's still possible to get one, but leaves room for other cards.
1 vote to remove Tangle Wire. I don't see the point. If it has too many fade counters, you can't do anything, and if it has too few, then there's no point in having the card, really.
1 vote to keep Darksteel Reactor. Alternate win conditions are nice, especially when they fit the theme of the deck.
1 vote to get rid of Eternity Vessel. Really expensive and doesn't help much. This deck has better things to sink 6 mana into. This gets rid of Eternity Vessel, unless I'm completely mistaken.
1 vote to get rid of the Lux Cannons. Takes too long to get it up and running. There are better forms of removal that can be run.
1 vote to keep Umezawa's Jitte. Easily one of the best equipments I've ever seen and the ability to keep it going for even longer is amazing. Definitely deserves a spot in this deck.
1 vote to keep Scute Mob. Definitely seems like the primary creature (besides Bairn) in this deck and can quickly become absurdly powerful.
1 vote to get rid of Thrummingbird. It's too easily stopped and proliferate isn't terribly important when you've got Bairn. This gets rid of Thrummingbird.
1 vote to add 2 copies of Opposition. Controlling the field at the cost (if it can even be called that) of tapping a creature (Bairn) is incredible.
1 vote to keep Fact or Fiction. The deck needs draw power and Fact or Fiction is an incredible card no matter how you look at it.
1 vote to keep Counterspell. Any deck that depends on a specific card needs to protect that card, and Counterspell does that job well for a fairly low cost.
1 vote to cut out 1 Tezzeret. 3 of any one Planeswalker is, in my experience, overkill.
1 vote to keep Garruk. All of his abilities are very useful to this deck.
1 vote to add one Garruk. Same reason as above.
Adding 2 Jace Belerens. Consistent draw power that works well with Bairn is, I would think, an obvious choice for this deck.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor would be way better in this deck than Jace Beleren as it's brainstorming ability would give us much needed draw, and this draw ability is WAY better than Jace Beleren's. Plus Jace Beleren would only give us a total of three draws as this deck is unlikely to use its + ability as we won't be wanting our opponent to draw. I know somebody earlier suggested against using Jace, the Mind Sculptor because it is out of some peoples budgets but you have to remember that it is within a few peoples budget and there are also a lot of us that play Magic on Magic Workstation and Apprentice where budget isn't a factor so we shouldn't just completely rule this card out especially since it can do so much to help us with the draw we desperately need.
Why does anyone want to keep Scute Mob? This isn't an aggro deck, its a control deck and the Scute Mob is absolutely unneeded. If anything for more creatures we should up Epochrasite to four copies and take Scute Mob out as Epochrasite is not only tutorable by Tezzeret the Seeker it also comes out as a 4/4 and recurs.
Like a lot of people said this deck is going to be a control deck so we are going to likely need a few more lands, I would recommend upping our land count to 24.
We only need one copy of Paradise Mantle in the deck. People we can tutor it up with Tezzeret, the Seeker easily, we only need one. Plus we still have very little draw and even less counterspell protection so we need to open up spots so we can get to our cards faster and than protect our cards.
So that is:
Three votes to move Paradise Mantle down to one copy, so its down to one copy
Three votes to remove Lux Cannon, so its gone
Also the four votes were to take Saproling Burst down to two copies and since its already at two copies I removed those votes.
Lastly, for today I am nominating four copies of Cryptic Command as it is one of the best counterspells available and is incredibly versatile, also this would put our counterspell count up to 8 which I feel is enough to protect ourselves.
Jace, the Mind Sculptor would be way better in this deck than Jace Beleren as it's brainstorming ability would give us much needed draw, and this draw ability is WAY better than Jace Beleren's.
I thought I was explicit enough when I started the vote to remove Jace 2.0 the first time, but I'll elaborate. Expensive legacy and standard staples have no place in community deck creation because they impose a mutually exclusive definition of what casual is and the circumstances in which the deck can be played. The goal should be to create a deck that anybody who stumbles across it can put together and enjoy, not a deck that only people who play on MWS can put together.
Most people who play paper Magic wouldn't use the exact list of a deck running all relevant ABU duals and a playset of Jace 2.0, either because of the effect it would have when people in the playgroup see so much money being tossed around in a format filled with budget and semi-budget decks, or because people just don't have the cards and sure as hell aren't going to blow half a paycheck for them. This is less of an issue with the mana base because it's quite simple to opt-in to a less-efficient but more budget-friendly manabase. Jace, however, has a greater level of consequence to the deck.
With that said, I also don't see the point in adhering to the vintage b/r list since we're not running moxen or power 9. So I'll vote to up the count of FoF to 4.
i'll second the lightning greaves, is a whole world better just thought the stealthsuit was more budget friendly,and im against putting jace 2.0 in here, yes its an amazingly powerful card, but dose that mean we need to stuff it in every deck we possibly can?? jace beleren will do fine here i think.
I will strongly advice against reducing the mantle to 1 copy, that is just ridiculous and don't see how its going to benefit the deck by reducing an essential combo piece to 1??? yes it can be tutored with tezz, but even if we were running 4 tezz it still wouldn't be viable to have only one copy. so basically were only have 4(6 if u wanna count the 2 tezz) cards in the whole deck that tap the bairn for us with out attacking?????? dose not seem like a good thing to me
Ok, then I've got a suggestion for your casual deck construction rules:2. No one's deck runs any answers to anything. Killing creatures, countering spells, destroying lands, redirecting abilities, forcing discards: all that stuff is totally not fun.
5. No one actually loses. Winning is fun, and we want everyone to have fun, so the first one to zero life points just wins, and so does everyone else. Then we can shuffle up and have more fun!
.
1 vote to switch Neurok Stealthsuit for Lightning Greaves (4 votes for this, Neurok comes out, Greaves go in). Greaves are quite obviously better than Stealthsuit, no reason to not run it.
1 vote to add a copy of Seat of the Synod and a copy of Tree of Tales (brings the vote up to 3, adds one of each). Solid 24 card mana base.
I'll change my vote on Fact or Fiction from keeping 1 to upping it to 4. Incredibly powerful draw which this deck desperately needs. Not sure whether or not this brings it up or not due to the negative votes.
1 vote to reduce Training Grounds to 2. It's a decent card, but only Gilder Cairn makes use of it. No reason to have 4.
1 vote to get rid of 1 Darksteel Reactor. No good reason to have 2, it stands well enough as a 1-of.
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
3 Murkfiend Liege
4 Phantom Centaur
Enchantments (14)
4 Training Grounds
3 Opposition
3 Quest for Renewal (-1)
4 Saproling Burst
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Artifacts (15)
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Tangle Wire
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Eternity Vessel
3 Static Orb
4 Misty Rainforest
I added phantom centaur because he is extremely removal resistant and can climb nicely with the titular card of the deck
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
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My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thrummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-1)
3 Murkfiend Liege
2 Epochrasite
4 Training Grounds
3 Opposition
4 Saproling Burst
Planeswalkers (6)
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Artifacts (15)
4 Paradise Mantle
4 Tangle Wire
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Eternity Vessel
3 Static Orb (-2)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Misty Rainforest
Don't have anything to vote down so far, but I do feel this is going all over the place and it will probably have to get under control before too long.
I am going to vote to remove:
Scute Mob
Phantom Centaur
Murkfiend Liege
To reduce Paradise Mantle to one copy
Tangle Wire
Umezawa's Jitte
Static Orb
I am also gonna vote to up Opposition to four copies.
Lastly, for today I am going to add one copy of Fact or Fiction as we are going to need some draw and it is one of the best draw spells available, only adding one because it is restricted in Vintage.
4 Misty Rainforest
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-1)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1)
1 Eterntiy Vessel
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1)
4 Thummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-2)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1)
2 Epochrasite
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies)
Instants: 1
1 Fact or Fiction
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands: 4
Non Lands: 53
Total: 57
--------------------------------------
"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
--------------------------------------
3 good creatures that combo very well with the gilder. they are also strong creatures in their own right and we aren't dead in the water if we don't get the gilder out.
the jitte should also stay as well as the tangle wire.
i don't get were you're coming from rchards cutting cards that combo with our main card then suggesting a random card like fact or fiction.
i agree with static orb though.
4 Misty Rainforest
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-1, +1)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +1)
1 Eterntiy Vessel
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1, +1)
4 Thummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-2, +1)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +1)
2 Epochrasite
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies)
Instants: 1
1 Fact or Fiction
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 1 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1, +1)
4 Thummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-2, +2)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 11
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 1 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
im going to vote to remove Tangle wire, and suggest parallax tide as a 4 off, at worst it can help slow down the opponet and at best can be used with bairn to remove all there lands from game
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 1 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1, +1)
4 Thummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-2, +2)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 19
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 1 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide
4 Utopia Vow (-1)
1 Fact or Fiction
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
4 Tropical Islands becuase we need them. Anyway no more suggestions aside from lands, we are now at 77 cards.
I also want it noted that Utopia Vow was never voted off, the decklist was just mis-copied.
I also vote to remove Utopia Vow which makes three... gone
I vote to remove Tangle Wire as well. My vote will cancel out the vote to keep it. That makes it a -2 to remove and a vote to reduce to 2
Vote to reduce Parallax Tide to 2
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 1 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1, +1)
4 Thummingbird
4 Phantom Centaur (-2, +3)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 1 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-1)
4x Counterspell
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
61 Non-lands 16 Lands = 77 Cards... time to start cutting
The Mimeoplasm
Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Rhys the Redeemed
Merieke Ri Berit
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Cromat Wurm Tribal
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Looking for Green friendly EDH players/groups in the Toronto area. PM me if this is you.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 1 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob (-1, +2)
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur (-2, +4)
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 1 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4x Counterspell (-1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
i'm going to also vote against FoF, as i don't see the point of one copy, also i'm voting against counterspell, I've never had luck with a deck with only 4 counter spells and i think if were going to put something in as a 4 off we need draw spells. -1 to thrumming bird,also -1 to eternity vessel, i think its too slow for the deck. i'm also gonna say to keep centaur and scute mob, like noodle said, there good creatures on there own and are great when u get the bairn out.
The Mimeoplasm
Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Rhys the Redeemed
Merieke Ri Berit
Nekusar, the Mindrazer
Cromat Wurm Tribal
Gisela, Blade of Goldnight
Looking for Green friendly EDH players/groups in the Toronto area. PM me if this is you.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
3 Island
3 Forest
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 1 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur
3 Murkfiend Liege (-1, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 1 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4x Counterspell (-1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Non-land: 61
Land: 19
Total: 83[/QUOTE]
1 vote for -1 opposition
1 vote to drop Murkfiend Liege.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
3 Island
3 Forest
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 2 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur
3 Murkfiend Liege (-2, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 2 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4x Counterspell (-1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Garruk Wildspeaker
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools
4 Tropical Island
3 Island
3 Forest
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 2 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur
3 Murkfiend Liege (-3, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 2 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4x Counterspell (-1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker (1 vote to cut to 2)
3 Garruk Wildspeaker (1 vote to cut to 2)
I vote each planeswalker gets a drop to 2, I also am in favour of cutting the liege which feels out of place. My votes have been added
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
EDH
GWSigarda, Host of EnchantressGW[Primer]
Also of note is that Fact or Fiction is the only draw spell in our entire deck and it has almost been voted out. So basically if we don't get Gilder Bairn in our starting hand or our first few draws we are absolutely screwed.
The deck really needs lower costed artifacts that are worthy of being tutored up by Tezzeret the Seeker and artifact lands or we should just take out Tezzeret the Seeker as it is completely useless because we could just put in Trinket Mage which can tutor up for Paradise Mantle which seems to be the only real target for Tezzeret.
Also Calciform Pools makes white and blue mana and this is a blue green deck, so why exactly is that card in this deck?
Also a creature which really should have been in this deck is Plaxcaster Frogling since it can give any of our creatures with counters on them shroud, and Lorescale Coatl would have been one of the best creatures for this deck in color if we would have actually included some draw in the deck.
I am going to vote to keep Counterspell as it is basically the only form of defense in our whole deck.
I am also going to vote to remove Calciform Pools and the Forest and the Island, as stated above the artifact lands would be better than them in this deck.
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools (-1)
4 Tropical Island
3 Island (-1)
3 Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 14
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 2 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur
3 Murkfiend Liege (-3, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 2 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 1 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4 Counterspell (-1 , +1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker (1 vote to cut to 2)
3 Garruk Wildspeaker (1 vote to cut to 2)
22 Lands
61 Non Lands
83 Cards
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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i don't really know what you do when you repost the list with your votes, can the person below please fill me in on how to do it...
i think thrummingbird Epochrasite and murkfield liege should be cut
saproling burst and parallax tide to 2 each
and i think that worldly tutor and jace beleren should be considered
worldly tutor because we need guilder bairn and jace because it's good card draw that works with bairn
sorry if i've suggested too many changes, if so please fill me in on the rules of this thing and ignore me =]
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Breeding Pool
4 Calciform Pools (-2, to replace with the artie lands)
4 Tropical Island
3 Island (-1)
3 Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 15
4 Paradise Mantle (1 vote to go down to one copy)
4 Tangle Wire (-2, +1, 2 vote to remove 2)
2 Darksteel Reactor
1 Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +2)
1 Eterntiy Vessel (-1)
2 Lux Cannon
1 neurok stealthsuit
4 Gilder Bairn
4 Scute Mob
4 Thummingbird (-1)
4 Phantom Centaur
3 Murkfiend Liege (-4, +2)
2 Epochrasite
Enchantments: 15
4 Training Grounds
4 Saproling Burst (-2 to reduce to 2 copies)
3 Opposition (1 vote to move it to 4 copies, 2 vote to reduce to 2)
4 parallax tide ( 2 vote to reduce to 2)
1 Fact or Fiction (-2)
4 Counterspell (-1 , +1)
Planeswalkers: 6
3 Tezzeret the Seeker (2 vote to cut to 2)
3 Garruk Wildspeaker (2 vote to cut to 2)
+1 to keep fact of fiction. We need the draw.
+1 to cut garruk to two. he really doesn't do too much, and isn't necessary in multiples.
+1 vote to remove garruk entirely. Again, we don't need him.
+1 vote to remove 2 copies of tangle wire. We can tutor it with Tezzeret.
+1 vote to keep tangle wire. It taps all their stuff and is generally very good.
-1 vote to cut tez. I like the toolbox ability it gives us.
+1 vote to replace calciform pools with artifact lands.
+1 vote against eternity vessel. We don't need it for the deck, and it can't be tutored.
+1 vote to decrease opposition to 2. It lets us tap down our opponents lands during their upkeep and use the bairn on their turn.
+1 vote to the -murkfiend liege. We can already tap the bairn and don't need it untapped, and the bairn already makes our creatures larger. This cuts the liege.
+1 vote to remove thrumming bird. It's neat, but unnecessary.
+1 vote to remove darksteel reactor. It can't be tutored and won't win quickly, as well as make us a huge target.
+1 vote to decrease saproling burst to 2 copies. We do not need it to win, it is only a fun card. What the deck needs is draw spells and tutors.
+1 vote to decrease parallax tide to 2. Again, we need draw and tutors, not win-more cards. This causes it to drop to 2.
+1 vote to cut lux cannon. We already have things that will kill things, specifically parallax tide. What isn't killed is tapped, by tangle wire.
+1 vote to go down to 1 copy of paradise mantle. Its tutorable, we don't need more.
+1 vote to keep umezawa's jitte. It can wreck an opponents board very quickly.
+1 vote to remove scute mob. Yes its good with counters, but its really bad in a control deck and that what this is going to be.
+1 vote to keep counterspell. Counters are always good, and for this deck to work it needs a control shell.
Current Deck:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Breeding Pool
4x Tropical Island
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Tree of Tales
3x Island (-1)
3x Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 12
4x Paradise Mantle (2 votes to remove 3)
1x Tangle Wire (-2, +2)
2x Darksteel Reactor (-1)
1x Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +3)
1x Eternity Vessel (-2)
2x Lux Cannon (-1)
1x Neurock Stealthsuit
4x Gilder Bairn
4x Scute Mob (-1)
4x Thrummingbird (-2)
4x Phantom Centaur
2x Epochrasite
Enchantments: 10
4x Training Grounds
2x Saproling burst (4x?)
2x Opposition (1 vote to add 2 copies)
2x parallax tide
1x Fact or Fiction (-2, +1)
4x Counterspell (-1, +2)
4x Impulse
Planeswalkers: 5
3x Tezzeret the Seeker (1 vote to cut to 2)
1x Garruk, the Wildspeaker (-1)
Notes:
1. Not sure if that was 2 votes on the saproling burst for or against moving it down to 2 copies. Does anyone know? If they were 2 votes against losing two copies, we need to lose those two copies. Our 5 cmc slot is clogged.
2. I added Impulse because we need draw badly, and this is one of the better ones. I agree that worldly tutor is also needed here, but I think that impulse is more vital.
3. I really think that darksteel reactor, lux cannon and eternity vessel need to go. They are neat but do nothing for the deck that it can't already do, and the lifegain from eternity vessel is unimportant.
4. Scute Mob and Thrumming Bird need to go, through thrumming bird has the better case for staying. Scute Mob is only useful in aggressive ramp decks, and this is not one of them.
5. Current Cards: 75. Removing scute mob, thrumming bird, lux cannon, darksteel reactor, 3x paradise mantle, eternity vessel, and garruk, would leave us with 58 cards. We would still need to cull the lists more to add in worldly tutor or other counterspells.
6. Also, the version of the deck I typed up is easier to copy and paste and works just as well.
7. I would request that people hold off on non-card draw or non-counterspell suggestions, and only submit those sparingly because we need more of them. Remember, counters serve as protection for out Gilder Bairn.
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
Fair enough, but then this changes from a control deck to a combo deck, and which would require many more cards to be changed to accelerate into the combo faster and protect the combo. I thought the direction was to control the game with gilder bairn and its shenanigans with other enchantments and artifacts (parallax wave and tangle wire)
I had been looking at it as more of a card to be tutored for with tezzeret to help the bairn pay for itself as opposed to a form of ramp. If it was being used for that, then we should add more lands and not require our creatures to tap for mana instead of turning sideways or using their abilities.
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
Current Deck:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Breeding Pool
4x Tropical Island
2x Seat of the Synod
2x Tree of Tales
3x Island (-1)
3x Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 11
4x Paradise Mantle (2 votes to remove 3, 1 vote to remove 1)
1x Tangle Wire (-3, +2)
2x Darksteel Reactor (-1, +1)
1x Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +4)
2x Lux Cannon (-2)
1x Neurok Stealthsuit
4x Gilder Bairn
4x Scute Mob (-1, +1)
4x Phantom Centaur
2x Epochrasite
Enchantments: 10
4x Training Grounds
2x Saproling burst (4x?)
2x Opposition (2 votes to add 2 copies)
2x parallax tide
Instants: 9
1x Fact or Fiction (-2, +1)
4x Counterspell (-1, +2)
4x Impulse
3x Tezzeret the Seeker (2 votes to cut to 2)
1x Garruk, the Wildspeaker (-1, +1, 1 vote to add 1)
2x Jace Beleren
Current total cards: 73
Why does anyone want to keep Scute Mob? This isn't an aggro deck, its a control deck and the Scute Mob is absolutely unneeded. If anything for more creatures we should up Epochrasite to four copies and take Scute Mob out as Epochrasite is not only tutorable by Tezzeret the Seeker it also comes out as a 4/4 and recurs.
Neurok Stealthsuit isn't anywhere near as good as Lightning Greaves as Greaves has a lower equip costs and also gives the creature haste.
Lux Cannon is just bad here as it virtually kills Tezzeret, the Seeker if we tutor for it, and overall just isn't needed.
Darksteel Reactor also basically kills Tezzeret, the Seeker if tutored for and is too slow. We should have toolboxed more 1x of lower costing artifacts for Tezzeret, the Seeker.
Like a lot of people said this deck is going to be a control deck so we are going to likely need a few more lands, I would recommend upping our land count to 24.
We only need one copy of Paradise Mantle in the deck. People we can tutor it up with Tezzeret, the Seeker easily, we only need one. Plus we still have very little draw and even less counterspell protection so we need to open up spots so we can get to our cards faster and than protect our cards.
So I am voting to:
To replace Jace Beleren with Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Cut Scute Mob
Up Epochrasite to four copies
To replace Neurok Stealthsuit with Lightning Greaves
Cut Lux Cannon
Cut Darksteel Reactor
Move Paradise Mantle down to one copy
Keep Fact or Fiction
To add one copy of Tree of Tales
To add one copy of Seat of the Synod
So that is:
Three votes to move Paradise Mantle down to one copy, so its down to one copy
Three votes to remove Lux Cannon, so its gone
Also the four votes were to take Saproling Burst down to two copies and since its already at two copies I removed those votes.
Lastly, for today I am nominating four copies of Cryptic Command as it is one of the best counterspells available and is incredibly versatile, also this would put our counterspell count up to 8 which I feel is enough to protect ourselves.
So the deck now looks like:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Breeding Pool
4x Tropical Island
2x Seat of the Synod (1 vote to add one copy)
2x Tree of Tales (1 vote to add one copy)
3x Island (-1)
3x Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 6
1x Paradise Mantle
1x Tangle Wire (-3, +2)
2x Darksteel Reactor (-2, +1)
1x Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +4)
1x Neurok Stealthsuit (1 vote to replace with Lightning Greaves)
4x Gilder Bairn
4x Scute Mob (-2, +1)
4x Phantom Centaur
2x Epochrasite (1 vote to move to 4 copies)
Enchantments: 10
4x Training Grounds
2x Saproling burst
2x Opposition (2 votes to add 2 copies)
2x parallax tide
Instants: 13
1x Fact or Fiction (-2, +2)
4x Counterspell (-1, +2)
4x Impulse
4x Cryptic Command
3x Tezzeret the Seeker (2 votes to cut to 2)
1x Garruk, the Wildspeaker (-1, +1, 1 vote to add 1)
2x Jace Beleren (1 vote to replace with Jace, the Mind Sculptor)
22 Lands
49 Non Lands
71 Total Cards
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"STAY CLEAR OF WHITE POWDER"
311 "Who's Got the Herb"
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I thought I was explicit enough when I started the vote to remove Jace 2.0 the first time, but I'll elaborate. Expensive legacy and standard staples have no place in community deck creation because they impose a mutually exclusive definition of what casual is and the circumstances in which the deck can be played. The goal should be to create a deck that anybody who stumbles across it can put together and enjoy, not a deck that only people who play on MWS can put together.
Most people who play paper Magic wouldn't use the exact list of a deck running all relevant ABU duals and a playset of Jace 2.0, either because of the effect it would have when people in the playgroup see so much money being tossed around in a format filled with budget and semi-budget decks, or because people just don't have the cards and sure as hell aren't going to blow half a paycheck for them. This is less of an issue with the mana base because it's quite simple to opt-in to a less-efficient but more budget-friendly manabase. Jace, however, has a greater level of consequence to the deck.
With that said, I also don't see the point in adhering to the vintage b/r list since we're not running moxen or power 9. So I'll vote to up the count of FoF to 4.
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Breeding Pool
4x Tropical Island
2x Seat of the Synod (1 vote to add one copy)
2x Tree of Tales (1 vote to add one copy)
3x Island (-1)
3x Forest (-1)
Artifacts: 6
1x Paradise Mantle
1x Tangle Wire (-3, +2)
2x Darksteel Reactor (-2, +1)
1x Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +4)
1x Neurok Stealthsuit (1 vote to replace with Lightning Greaves)
4x Gilder Bairn
4x Scute Mob (-2, +1)
4x Phantom Centaur
2x Epochrasite (1 vote to move to 4 copies)
Enchantments: 10
4x Training Grounds
2x Saproling burst
2x Opposition (2 votes to add 2 copies)
2x parallax tide
Instants: 13
1x Fact or Fiction (-2, +2, +1 to go to four)
4x Counterspell (-1, +2)
4x Impulse
4x Cryptic Command
3x Tezzeret the Seeker (2 votes to cut to 2)
1x Garruk, the Wildspeaker (-1, +1, 1 vote to add 1)
2x Jace Beleren (+1 to replace with Jace, the Mind Sculptor, +1 to keep it)
22 Lands
49 Non Lands
71 Total Cards
I will strongly advice against reducing the mantle to 1 copy, that is just ridiculous and don't see how its going to benefit the deck by reducing an essential combo piece to 1??? yes it can be tutored with tezz, but even if we were running 4 tezz it still wouldn't be viable to have only one copy. so basically were only have 4(6 if u wanna count the 2 tezz) cards in the whole deck that tap the bairn for us with out attacking?????? dose not seem like a good thing to me
My votes:
4x Misty Rainforest
4x Breeding Pool
4x Tropical Island
3x Seat of the Synod
3x Tree of Tales
3x Island (-2)
3x Forest (-2)
Artifacts: 5
1x Paradise Mantle (1 vote to up to 4)
2x Darksteel Reactor (-2, +2, 1 vote to reduce to 1)
1x Umezawa's Jitte (-1, +5)
1x Lightning Greaves (replaced Neurok Stealthsuit after 4 votes)
4x Gilder Bairn
4x Scute Mob (-2, +2)
4x Phantom Centaur
2x Epochrasite (1 vote to move to 4 copies)
Enchantments: 10
4x Training Grounds (1 vote to reduce to 2)
2x Saproling burst
2x Opposition (2 votes to add 2 copies)
2x parallax tide
1x Fact or Fiction (-2, +1, +3 to go to four)
4x Counterspell (-2, +2)
4x Impulse
4x Cryptic Command
Planeswalkers: 6
3x Tezzeret the Seeker (2 votes to cut to 2)
1x Garruk, the Wildspeaker (-2, +1, 1 vote to add 1)
2x Jace Beleren (+2 to replace with Jace, the Mind Sculptor, +2 to keep it)