I guess I wasn't thinking about the fact that if he ults they don't have summoning sickness. Either way I think the manabase is the priority, and we're pretty close to wrapping this up.
Aye. I actually seriously added Tezz just for the tutoring -- I'm only now realizing exactly how good his ult can be.
Ditto for Kumlekar -- Suncrusher can be a win con, but mostly I see it as a difficult-to-deal-with way to shoot their creatures (although, of course, beating down with an 8/8 is not in any way bad).
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"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I feel like this deck is at the point where anyone could drop the last three cards. But I'm not ready too.
I vote out Sphere of the Suns because I think Coalition Relic would be better here. But I think we need one or the other and I don't feel like forcing our hand on the difference in function. Basically, we need the fixing more than we need another set of fixing forcing the deck to get cut down.
So instead, I'll just add 2 Tree of Tales - We need every color, we want metalcraft.
I feel like this deck is at the point where anyone could drop the last three cards. But I'm not ready too.
I vote out Sphere of the Suns because I think Coalition Relic would be better here. But I think we need one or the other and I don't feel like forcing our hand on the difference in function. Basically, we need the fixing more than we need another set of fixing forcing the deck to get cut down.
So instead, I'll just add 2 Tree of Tales - We need every color, we want metalcraft.
I can see a case for going for Coalition Relic over Sphere of the Suns, however I opted for Sphere due to it's low mana cost and the fact that this deck is centered around some rather high CMC cards. If we go for a 3 CMC mana fixer I'd suggest either Chromatic Lantern or possibly even Trinket Mage accompanied by one of each of the artifact lands.
I like the sphere here too because 3 mana seems too slow for a mana rock. Trinket mage could still be good though, it grabs opal or the blade of the bloodchief.
I think its time to move to the cutting phase. We've had much worse decks than this hit 75 cards. Adding 3 trinket mage to search for mox opal or lands. We still need to swap out 7 vault of whispers for some ancient dens and great furnaces, but everything else looks good.
-4 Arcbound Wanderer
Maybe I missed why that guy is in here. As a beater, he's worse than the vanilla 5cc Sunburst with flying. As a +1/+1 counter engine (using Modular), he's still way less efficient than just running Arcbound Ravager or using the other artifacts to add counters to Suncrusher. It just seems less efficient at everything than the deck needs.
-1 Lux Cannon.
Too cute I think. You have ways to enable it, but you have far fewer ways to add many charge counters to it than you do to get +1/+1 counters on Suncrusher. With only 2 proliferators, you'll be relying on Energy Chamber, which will probably be used to put counters on other things instead of Lux Cannon. It seems like it could be quite slow much of the time, and we have to make room somewhere.
I'd like to keep the remaining lux cannon provided we don't cut any more tutors. If we do, the cannon will have to go. I'm backing the cut on arcbound wanderer, as I can't imagine a position where its ever a good draw in here. I'm voting against 1 fist of suns as the card is redundant in multiples. I'd like to cut a clock of omens for the same reason, but unlike fist of suns, clock does not fulfill a vital role. Blade of the bloodchief is another card that I'd like to have as a singleton. Its amazing with suncrusher, and not bad on etched oracle/champion, but its really not needed as a draw. I'm not convinced that champion belongs here, but I'm not voting against it yet.
I like Clock since we're running a lot of artifacts that don't tap to do their magic. It might need to get cut down to a tutor target, but it is powerful. Maybe we need some recursion to help our growing set of singletons. Buried Ruin, Academy Ruins or both?
+2 Academy Ruins: I'm liking the option of Oracle recursion in particular, and between Mages, Sphere, Prism, Pool and Glimmervoid, we can afford two or three colorless lands.
-1 Land: I agree that we have enough mana rocks to run 23.
-1 Blade of the Bloodchief: We can find it with all 8 tutors and we need room.
-2 Mox Opal: Both Opal and Prism can generate explosive plays. But we need room, so I'm okay relegating it to a singleton superland. Additionally, our mages will be able to find any color once we fill out the mana base.
I rescind my vote to cut Spheres. They are a necessity now that we can't replace them with something similar.
Vote down and get third vote against Blade of the Bloodchief -- we've a now-reduced but still decent ability to get singletons in situations where they're relevant.
I was going to vote down Lux Cannon, but I've decided I support it for one reason -- it's a singleton, tutorable answer to more-or-less anything. In a slower deck, that is to me worth keeping, given our inability to otherwise deal with noncreatures (Suncrusher and Contagion Clasp do a good job against creatures).
I'll vote out two Etched Oracle -- They're good, but something's gotta give, and 5 to 6 mana to draw 3 is decent but mostly uninspiring.
"It is better for all the world if, instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind. The principle that sustains compulsory vaccination is broad enough to cover cutting the Fallopian tubes... Three generations of imbeciles are enough."
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
Voting against 3 reflecting pool. We have 12 ramp spells, we don't need 24 land I don't think.
The 'base land' if you will is Vault of Whispers. This is what we're using as a place holder to determine the total number of lands. Reflecting pool has been added for color fixing.
Do you want to reduce the number of lands, do you want to cut reflecting pool? If you cut reflecting pool, then we get back 3 vault of whispers that we could then change to other lands.
If you just want to reduce the total number of lands, you need to vote against vault of whispers. You could even combine yours with the 2 votes already against the vault and drop it down to 6 Vault of whispers (1 @ -2) (23 total lands).
Adding 3 ancient den. I want to cut refection pool as it cannot fix our mana (it only provides colors we already have) and it is not an artifact land. I want to drop the total land count without cutting into slots taken by artifact lands. A vote on vault of whispers won't do that.
Unless I'm mistaken, Vault of Whispers has never actually been added to the deck, it was just the name used for the obligatory lands placeholder at the start.
This is correct.
I'm also going to throw a vote against Ancient Den for the same reasons. I don't think we need three of them, and blue is our 'base' color more or less.
I actually expected this deck to have more rainbow lands at the beginning. I could see cutting one reflecting pool with this land base. It's still pretty useful though if we need double blue for Tezz or if we have a glimmervoid, in which case it becomes another land of any color.
I'm not opposed to other rainbow lands. Reflecting pool is pretty bad here though. The vast majority of the time an island will be better in that slot.
Having trouble finding good cuts now. I think cutting the etched champions makes sense as they don't synergize particularly well with the deck, so I'm voting against those. Also voting against one trinket mage, and one sphere of the suns because I don't see any other better cuts.
Voting to remove two clock of omens because I do not believe the tap effect is worth the investment. making the placeholder an Academy ruins because I believe returning artifacts is worthwhile.
Ditto for Kumlekar -- Suncrusher can be a win con, but mostly I see it as a difficult-to-deal-with way to shoot their creatures (although, of course, beating down with an 8/8 is not in any way bad).
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
I vote out Sphere of the Suns because I think Coalition Relic would be better here. But I think we need one or the other and I don't feel like forcing our hand on the difference in function. Basically, we need the fixing more than we need another set of fixing forcing the deck to get cut down.
So instead, I'll just add 2 Tree of Tales - We need every color, we want metalcraft.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
Artifacts: 26
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
3 Sphere of the Suns [1 @ -3]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate (2 @ -1)
Lands: 24
11 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Moderator Help Desk
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I also like Trinket Mage.
Moderator Help Desk
Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 26
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
3 Sphere of the Suns [1 @ -3]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 4
4 Fabricate (2 @ -1)
Lands: 24
11 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -1)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 26
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
3 Sphere of the Suns [1 @ -3]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
11 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
Maybe I missed why that guy is in here. As a beater, he's worse than the vanilla 5cc Sunburst with flying. As a +1/+1 counter engine (using Modular), he's still way less efficient than just running Arcbound Ravager or using the other artifacts to add counters to Suncrusher. It just seems less efficient at everything than the deck needs.
-1 Lux Cannon.
Too cute I think. You have ways to enable it, but you have far fewer ways to add many charge counters to it than you do to get +1/+1 counters on Suncrusher. With only 2 proliferators, you'll be relying on Energy Chamber, which will probably be used to put counters on other things instead of Lux Cannon. It seems like it could be quite slow much of the time, and we have to make room somewhere.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
3 Arcbound Wanderer (1 @ -3)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 26
4 Fist of Suns (2 @ -2)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens
3 Sphere of the Suns [1 @ -3]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
11 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
3 Arcbound Wanderer (2 @ -3)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 25
3 Fist of Suns (2 @ -1)
2 Blade of the Bloodchief (1 @ -1)
3 Mox Opal
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns [1 @ -3]
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
11 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
+2 Academy Ruins: I'm liking the option of Oracle recursion in particular, and between Mages, Sphere, Prism, Pool and Glimmervoid, we can afford two or three colorless lands.
-1 Land: I agree that we have enough mana rocks to run 23.
-1 Blade of the Bloodchief: We can find it with all 8 tutors and we need room.
-2 Mox Opal: Both Opal and Prism can generate explosive plays. But we need room, so I'm okay relegating it to a singleton superland. Additionally, our mages will be able to find any color once we fill out the mana base.
I rescind my vote to cut Spheres. They are a necessity now that we can't replace them with something similar.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 24
2 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief (2 @ -1)
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
9 Vault of Whispers (2 @ -1)
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
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Sales Thread
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 24
2 Fist of Suns
2 Blade of the Bloodchief (2 @ -1)
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
7 Vault of Whispers (2 @ -1)
2 Great Furnace
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
I was going to vote down Lux Cannon, but I've decided I support it for one reason -- it's a singleton, tutorable answer to more-or-less anything. In a slower deck, that is to me worth keeping, given our inability to otherwise deal with noncreatures (Suncrusher and Contagion Clasp do a good job against creatures).
I'll vote out two Etched Oracle -- They're good, but something's gotta give, and 5 to 6 mana to draw 3 is decent but mostly uninspiring.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
7 Vault of Whispers (2 @ -1)
2 Great Furnace
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool
--Buck v Bell, 1927. This case, regarding the compulsory sterilization of inmates at mental institutions, has -- somehow -- never been overturned. Just a wee PSA for ya.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
7 Vault of Whispers (2 @ -1)
2 Great Furnace
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3)
The 'base land' if you will is Vault of Whispers. This is what we're using as a place holder to determine the total number of lands. Reflecting pool has been added for color fixing.
Do you want to reduce the number of lands, do you want to cut reflecting pool? If you cut reflecting pool, then we get back 3 vault of whispers that we could then change to other lands.
If you just want to reduce the total number of lands, you need to vote against vault of whispers. You could even combine yours with the 2 votes already against the vault and drop it down to 6 Vault of whispers (1 @ -2) (23 total lands).
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
4 Vault of Whispers (2 @ -1)
2 Great Furnace
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3)
This is correct.
I'm also going to throw a vote against Ancient Den for the same reasons. I don't think we need three of them, and blue is our 'base' color more or less.
I actually expected this deck to have more rainbow lands at the beginning. I could see cutting one reflecting pool with this land base. It's still pretty useful though if we need double blue for Tezz or if we have a glimmervoid, in which case it becomes another land of any color.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 24
4 Placeholder (2 @ -1)
2 Great Furnace
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den (2 @ -1)
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3, 1 @ -1))
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion
3 Trinket Mage
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 23
1 Placeholder
2 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den (2 @ -1)
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3, 1 @ -1))
Voting to add 2 vault of whispers to complete the artifact land spread. Also last voting for a mana cut.
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion (1 @ -4)
3 Trinket Mage (1 @ -1)
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1)
3 Sphere of the Suns (1 @ -1)
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 23
1 Placeholder
2 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den (2 @ -1)
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3, 1 @ -1))
4 Suncrusher
4 Etched Oracle (1 @ -2)
4 Etched Champion (1 @ -4)
3 Trinket Mage (1 @ -1)
Artifacts: 23
2 Fist of Suns
1 Blade of the Bloodchief
3 Mox Opal (1 @ -2)
4 Pentad Prism
4 Energy Chamber
2 Contagion Clasp
1 Lux Cannon (1 @ -1)
1 Magistrate's Scepter
2 Clock of Omens (1 @ -1) (1 @ -2)
3 Sphere of the Suns (1 @ -1)
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
Sorcery: 3
3 Fabricate
Lands: 23
2 Great Furnace
2 Vault of Whispers
2 Tree of Tales
4 Seat of the Synod
3 Ancient Den (2 @ -1)
3 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
3 Reflecting Pool (1 @ -3, 1 @ -1))
Voting to remove two clock of omens because I do not believe the tap effect is worth the investment. making the placeholder an Academy ruins because I believe returning artifacts is worthwhile.