Hi, the pic on top of this thread are pics of the actual cards.. and that box is the custom made box I created to hold five 40-card 7th edition decks that we use to teach beginners. We also sometimes play them for fun when taking a break from Modern. Why call them "duel decks".. well, because I created them to battle against each other only. All cards are from 7th Edition. However, after some testings I realized that creating a balanced meta is not easy. My fiends who are semi-spikes in Modern helped me to test them when they came to my birthday. First impression they had is the U and B are strong.. they are right about the black, but no one expected the R deck to be the strong one.
Posting the decks here to get some additional help from people who may have ideas on how to balance them further.
Please only use cards from 7th edition. I chose 7th Ed because of the simplicity.
BBBBB
While teaching my friend the basic rules of mtg. This is the first deck that my friend Karen decided to play. Black is surprisingly easy to teach to a beginner. Oh, and she liked these because the creatures looked like from a horror movie. One comment she often had when playing this is "I hope to draw that card that draws 4 cards soon!" She likes Infernal Contract.
This deck fights fairly against the others, except red where it has a slight disadvantage.
After some playtesting Blood Pet changed to Drudge Skeletons
-1 Foul Imp +1 Drudge Skeletons
-1 Hollow Dogs +1 Revenant
-1 Serpent Warrior -1 Looming Shade -1 Razortooth Rats +3 Foul Imp -- need to lower the curve of the deck
The only creatures with activated abilities here are the enhancing guys.. Serra Advocate and Angelic Page - because I found them the easiest to explain to my friend. She use this deck just as much as black. Modern friends who came to my b-day also tested this. It does fine against everyone except against red. In theory, the goblins are no match for archers with first strike, and the knight errants are better than goblin raiders who can't block. This deck also has plenty of removal. Big mistake.. the red deck 3-0'd it easily. What happened is like a Klendathu with red = bugs and white = troopers. From what I remember, first game all soldiers got burned and goblins won despite three removed with pacifism, another game a goblin glider with granite grip was able to swing for 5 twice before being removed with a topdecked reprisal. Do I need to add healing salve to this deck? The salve seems good against red, but seems useless against the other colors.
Honestly, this deck did not win any match when tested by my Modern playing friends. Lost to multiple Air Elementals from blue, and lost to Goblin Glider with Granite Grip in red. As a way to help against fliers I added two Hurricane. Also removed Rod of Ruin - even in this low powered environment, 7 mana for 1 damage is crap. Replaced the rod with an aladdin's ring. I read in old 7th ed draft articles that Trained Armodon are strong, so added 3. Hurricanes, Armodons and ring are untested in actual games, would have to wait for my friends to visit again.
-2 Pride of Lions +1 Spined Wurm +1 Maro
-1 Gang of Elk +1 Uktabi Wildcats
-1 Giant Growth +1 Might of Oaks
RRRRR
Initially thought to be weak.. it's planned to add a third Goblin King. Granite Grips were previosly thought to be terrible, so it' s fine to have 3 of them. However, in actual games this deck burns blockers away to turn Goblin Gliders with Granite Grips into killing machines. As a result... all Granite Grips removed and the planned addition of a 3rd Goblin King is cancelled. Makes good use of chaining Goblin Matrons to help fetch more men, and the firebreathing creatures Pygmy Pyrosaur, Storm Shaman, and Shivan Dragon give the deck some mid-game strength. Bloodshot Cyclops flinging firbreathers backup plan in case goblin rush get stalled. Oh, the granite grips were replaced with more burn.
-1 Boomerang -1 Prodigal Sorcerer +1 Sleight of Hand +1 Giant Octopus
11-23-18
-1 Ancestral Memories +1 Inspiration
12-26-18
Major changes to a Merfolk deck
9-21-19
finally changed to a merfolk deck with two lord of atlantis
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Cards we have decided not to use:
1. Worship - still sees play in Modern even today, and will be very frustrating to play against
2. Intrepid Hero - too oppressive against the green deck
3. Castle - heavily argued on because it makes Serra Angels 4/6 both attack and defense, might be included later if the white deck keeps losing games against red
4. All the paladins because they are color hosers
5. Ancient Silverback - green already has the wildcats
6. Granite Grip - too strong with Goblin Gliders, this might be added again later since the other decks have better removal for flyers now
Cards we have decided to limit in use after testings:
1. Infernal Contract - very powerful card draw, limited to one.
2. Uktabi Wildcats - limited to two
3. Orcish Artillery - limited to one
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Oh, and lastly. I know many people dislike 7th ed for the art... yeah, I agree some art are not so good. But this is the core set presen t when I was first learning magic, so it has sentimental value to me. And as I stated already... my beginner friend likes these cards, so we would play these until she learns enough that we can move on to 60 card decks from other sets. Thanks again to all who give advice on balancing my beginner decks. ^___^
That red deck sure is packing a lot of removal, especially for a 40 card deck. Two of those cards, Bloodshot Cyclops and Orcish Artillery, are even repeatable. I'm not surprised at all, that it smoked the white deck. Since you want to balance the decks to each other, some of that removal has to go, in my opinion, or at least be weakened in its effectiveness. One way to do this is to include more higher toughness creatures in the other decks, so that red would have to use more than one spell or creature on those creatures to kill them. The white deck could include like two Castles or so, or another copy of Glorious Anthem, for that purpose. And maybe a few cards for life gain, like Staunch Defenders (no pure lifegain stuff, though, because such cards are extremely bad). That Pariah may seem like a neat effect, but you have nothing in the white deck to make really use of it. Usually, you want a really high toughness creature for that aura, or a creature that inherrently prevents the damage coming towards it. I would also reduce the number of copies of Spitting Earth in the red deck by at least 1. That card in a monored deck can pretty much take down any larger threat the other deck manages to bring out, and is probably one of the main reasons for the red deck to be so strong compared to the other decks. Let the red deck invest a bit more resources to deal with a large creature by 2-for-1-ing itself.
The three Looming Shades in the black deck are one too many in my opinion. A second Razortooth Rats would be better here, I think. I also don't see much reason for the singleton Blood Pet. Another Gravedigger, however, would open up the possibility for some reanimation shennanigans, by cycling them into each other as chump blockers or even sac fodder for that Stronghold Assassin or Fallen Angel. A second Angel would probably be appreciated, too. Overall, more multiples instead of so many singleton cards would give the deck more focus and make it feel less random.
The green deck needs more lands. While it has Llanowar Elves and other ramp cards, you are basically paying mana to play more lands just to keep up with the lands plays of the other decks, which is the opposite of what ramp is meant for. You want to get ahead so that the big cards come down earlier. Uktabi Wildcats are even eating into those Forests. One or two Wing Snares as dedicated removal for flyers, which the other decks pack a lot of, would help greatly, and another Giant Spider wouldn't come amiss either. The Treefolk Seedlings are better replaced with some utility creature, because that 2/x is too weak early in the game (a 2/3 or 2/4 at most if at all), and not impactful enough later. Femeref Archers for example, could be a suitable replacement. Green hates flyers, so why not let your introductory deck show that more? Especially when the other decks pack so many yet green got none?
Can't say anything about the blue deck, it's just not my color.
Oh, it's you from the Rules section. Thanks for coming here. ^__^
These decks I created alone.. but during actual testing I took advice and changed cards with advice from 4 other people. So you could say that these are the work of 5 people. And you shared ideas too, so it's 6 people now.
Will reply to your suggestions now. The black deck had 3 Looming shades because my beginner friend Karen liked them.. but I agree, when at the hands of a more expert player 3 are probably too much. Added a Razortooth Rats to my SCG cart.. it will replace one of the shades. As for Bloodpet, the initial version had two.. someone said they would teach beginners that black will do anything to gain extra mana... but 1/1 creatures are sort of underwhelming, so it was reduced to 1.
About white. The most initial version actually had 2 Intrepid Hero, but someone complained that the hero would be too much of a hoser against green, because green had few ways to remove it. The hero is also the reason why green had a rod of ruin which turned out to be crap, and the rod removed after testing. In the end, the 2 hero was also removed. Castle - this card was heavily argued on because it made Serra Angels 4/6 vigilance, so it got removed. Since you mentioned Staunch Defenders... I do have one, thinking of putting it in place of one of the angels. Is that correct, or should I remove something else to put the defenders in?
About red. Yeah, I agree that it probably has too many powerful removals and have to be reduced. I'm thinking of doing two things... 1. Replace a spitting earth with another volcanic hammer? Or... 2. Replace a hammer and a spitting earth with 2 shock? Sorry, I can't remove the Orcish Artillery.. it's there to teach new players that even if cards have a terrible drawback, it can still be useful. Artillery is only one anyway, and red can't tutor for it because it's not a goblin.
Lastly, about green. I copied the amount of lands that the 7th edition precon had. https://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=seventhedition&decknum=5&lang=en During testings it does sometimes get stranded with one land, which I use to cast a llanowar elf if I had an eld in the opening 7. Thinking of going up to 15 lands, but not sure what to cut.
The white deck runs a whopping 9 2-drops, but has hardly any turn 3 plays, though there isn't much that would be that useful in that range in 7ed, I admit. If you want some life gain, some Venerable Monks in place of Knight Errants may be the way to go.
I don't see a problem with 4/6 Serra Angels, considering, that black's Dark Banishing, and red's Spitting Earth, and, if you add them, green's Wing Snares don't care much about toughness. Blue got a whole set of counterspells.
For the green deck, I already mentioned the Treefolk Seedlings as a candidate for cutting. Seeker of Skybreak isn't essential either, though it can speed up the mana by untapping Llanowar Elves. Maybe just cut the Bear instead, it's only a vanilla 2/2 and you've got three vanilla 3/3s now.
I would reduce the overall amount of burn in red's arsenal a bit, so simply taking out a Spitting Earth and putting something not burn related in, maybe another goblin. That's the least, you should do, I think. Other than the Spitting Earth, it's not so much the type of removal but the amount.
Had some serious testing of Blue vs Green today. Playtested until we got tired.
1. Redwood Treefolk needs to go.. it's so underwhelming. 3 power cannot even dent the walls and the horned turtle. Replaced with a second Uktabi Wildcats.
2. A second Giant Spider is needed. Added it.
3. Surprisingly.. green worked well on just 14 land. Would not add the 15th land for now.
4. Wing Snare is ok, but Hurricane is better.. since it can be used to kill a player that is low on life, or at least turn the game into a draw if the opponent has higher life total.
Found a fatal flaw in the black deck after some more testings. The 3 drop slot is overcrowded with 2 shade 2 rats 1 crypt rat 1 serpent warrior and a playset of dark banishing, while the only two drops are 2 skeletons + 1 imp. Caused slowdowns, as the black deck tends to get mauled early when facing anything not blue. The shades are also easily killed / can't block effectively as they are 1/1's on cast at turn 3.
Solution... -1 serpent warrior -1 shade -1 razor rats +3 foul imp. And also bringing Corrupt back to two to compensate for the life loss from imps. Deck runs smoother now with more two drop creatures.
Just wanted to drop by and say that your 'project' - if you wanna call it that way - is awesome!
I also was looking for a way to teach newbies (such as my GF) MTG, but my Legacy decks are way too complicated for someone never having played a TCG. Your decks look like a great starting point and I will continue following your optimizations!
Thanks. Actually, black deck is what got her interested to play. As my friend Karen likes horror movies, so she took a liking to the creepy creatures of black right away. Black is also surprisingly easy to pilot for a beginner. Play creatures.. use kill spells to remove enemy creatures. Done.
She tried to play white, but cards like heavy ballista and samite healer are too complicated to explain... so I took those out and left only the angelic page and serra advocate - easy enough to explain the +1/+1 and +2/+2. And as expected, she also understood giant growth in green right away.
She does not like to pilot red...
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Oh, and this is not a solo project. My friends who play Modern competitively help me to playtest. Actual playtesting is needed to know for certain if a card is a good addition or not. And of course, I will also listen to some suggestions people here in the forum would make.
Tested R today ... - Crimson Hellkite +1 Storm Shaman
Crimson Hellkite is not good. Replaced with Fire Elemental, but then the elemental is also slow... at last we settled to adding a second Storm Shaman. Shaman is relevant in early and late game. Also 4 toughness makes it a good blocker of armodons and giant spiders.
Final Fortune can stay. Surprisingly fun to use, but not broken. Dead card early, but useful for setting up a winning turn in the mid-late game. Card will make you think.
Spitting Earth will be kept at 2.
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Changes in other decks
W
-1 Angelic page +1 Serra Angel
-1 Pacifism +1 Breath of Life
Without having played the decks... what about replacing Ancestral Memories with Opportunity or Inspiration? Ditching 1/4th of your deck into the graveyard with 2 cards feels a bit much and maybe a bit too punishing for newer players, not understanding the versatility and advantage of such cards.
I had a friend having played YuGiOh before teached MTG - playing a Threshold deck he was totally confused and demotivated having to actively throw away his own cards.
Your suggestions shall be tested, as well as get my newbie friend opinion on throwing cards to the yard.
To be honest in testings.. when both experienced players used the decks. The U deck sometimes win or lose with just 2 or 3 cards left in library. Anyway, about opportunity.. it draws more cards than ancestral memories... but memories digs deeper to find key cards for certain situations.. Perhaps this is another Dig Through Time vs Treasure Cruise scenario? Control decks want more cards, while tempo decks want better selection. The question is... do we have a control deck or a tempo deck.. or neither of the two? Well... testing will be done when my Modern friends come back in a week or two. ^__^
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About newbie things that my friend Karen did...
Did not realize she has no more life to pay to cast Serpent warrior..
When she used green. She would turn 1 llanowar elves, then turn two use giant growth right away to make the elf 4/4 to swing for 4. Not realizing yet that g.growth can be used as a combat trick. Well, I did those things too when I was noob.
But she's learning steadily.. she now knows how to use reprisal as an instant. Kill large red creatures before they can attack. Just have to point out to her that growth can be used the same way as reprisal.
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Changes to G
-2 Rampant Growth +2 Wild Growth -- to allow more one land hands to be kept. Will also teach newbies that green can cause lands to produce more mana. Also another thing that allows turn 2 armodons.
Changes to U
-1 Temporal Adept +1 Prodigal Sorcerer -- the adept is not as good as we had hoped..
I just assembled all your decks on a MTG marketplace, ready to be bought.
I just ditched Wrath of God as well as Elvish Champion to keep the cost for each deck around 10-15€, which is pretty neat for beginner duel decks imo. Looking forward to get some more people into Magic!
Oh... you really assembled them. o_o
Well, you could just replace the 2 Wrath of God with 2 more pacifism, and replace elvish champion with another armodon or wood elves. If you're teaching a beginner.. I suggest black as the easiest to pilot.
We haven't been able to do some final testings yet. Busy with a lot of things... but we might be able to do a get-together next Sunday. It's Thursday night here right now.
Game 1: I start quickly with two trained armodons. First armodon get killed with dark banishing, but the second one get's in for a lot of damage. I follow up with Maro, then followed with a Giant Spider. Opponent slowly builds up blockers including a Looming Shade and a Stronghold Assasin. Maro turns into 5/5 and swing for 5. Next turn, opponent sacs the shade to kill Maro. Then topdeck a skeleton, sac skeleton to assasin to kill the remaining elephant. I do not draw anymore creatures, and got stuck on 5 mana. Hurricaned for 4 to bring opponent to 1. opponent slowly builds up the board and I got overwhelmed by black creatures and a corrupt on giant spider.
Game 2: won with beatdown from Armodons and Elvish Archers. Opponent was able to cast a Fallen Angel, but it's not enough because with only two blockers one of my three attacking creatures was able to get through with Might of Oaks.
Game 3: my opening hand is wild growth, llanowar elf, armodon, and the rest are lands. Opp goes first, cast Ostracize and discard the armodon. damn, my bad hand was seen. Topdeck another armodon and cast it turn 2 - lucky. An attacking Seeker of Skybreak trades with a Razortooth Rats. Game goes on, have an uktabi wildcats but choose to cast wood elves increasing my mana to 6. Getting beat down by two Foul Imps. Was able to reach 7 mana to hurricane for 6 damage to win the game. Just in time too, because top of opponent's deck is another swamp - would have been killed by Corrupt if opponent had one more turn.
Red vs White. I use red.
Game 1: Volcanic hammer a Knight Errant, while opponent pacifism my Storm Shaman. I made the play mistake of volcanic hammer a Sustainer of the Realm while a Glorious Anthem is in play, ok no takebacks so wasted my hammer and it went downhill from there. In the end, my 1/1 goblins face two large angels and a Seasoned Marshall. Lost.
Game 2: I go first but mulligan to 5. Start with a Goblin Glider, followed by a Goblin king. Opponent starts with an Angelic Page which keeps hitting me for 1, while glider keeps hitting in for 2. Two knight Errants for white, while a Goblin Raider and Matron comes to my side. Angelic Page pumps itself to block glider. Opponent wrath of God when I fetch another Goblin King from matron. We both rebuild, but opponent is getting some good card filtering from Jalum Tome. I manage to get opponent down to three.. and any burn spell would have finished the game at that point. Draw no burn, but draw a Blood Shot Cyclops which meet reprisal. Next turn I cast Shivan Dragon which dies blocking a 5/5 Serra Angel. Opponent topdecks another Serra Angel while all my creatures are on the ground.. lost. Could have won this game if I cast the dragon first, and the reprisal was used on the dragon instead of the cyclops. Well, I guess this just proves red is no longer overpowered.
Blue vs. Red. I use blue
Game 1: opponent goes first and I keep getting hit for 1 by a pygmy pyrosaur. Counterspell a Storm Shaman, then try to setup a defense with Glacial Wall, Horned Turtle, and Prodigal Sorcer. Turtle and Sorcerer were burned. I was overwhelmed by beatdown of goblins and the pyrosaur.
Game 2: I counter something then again try to setup a defense of glacial wall. Opponent is building up a goblin army, I kept getting hit by 1/1's. Sacced a Daring Appreentice to counter a Goblin King, then was forced to use Confiscate on a second Goblin King, opponent burn the confiscated Goblin King. I use another Confiscate on a Goblin Matron to further reduce attackers. Big mistake, should have just cast Air Elemental instead of confiscating the matron. Opponent cast a Shivan Dragon, and I'm out of answers. Scooped when air elemental died blocking the dragon. Need to replace Glacial wall with a Wall of Wonder, to help prevent continous beatdown of 1/1's.
Changes to U, -1 Glacial Wall +1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Vizzerdrix +1 Air Elemental, -1 Daring Apprentice +1 Fighting Drake
After some more testings... -1 Ancestral Memories +1 Remove Soul for blue. U needs a sharper teeth in the 2 mana slot to stand a chance against the others. At the start, blue fared equally with the other decks.. but as improvements were made, the other colors became much more aggressive than their first iterations..
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-1 Wall of Wonder -1 Wall of Air -1 Horned Turtle, +2 Wind Drake, +1 Fighting Drake
Need these 2-power beaters. The game plan is to counter something or sage owl on turn 2, turn 3 cast a drake or sorcerer or counter something, turn 4 fighting drake or counter something, turn 5 an elemental.
These are probably the last changes. The spells really need to line up. Always the last color that I would teach a beginner, as it is a lot more difficult to pilot than the others.
Ima preface the following: These may all be terrible suggestions. I'm much more of a spike learning developed meta's. Feel free to disregard any of the following lol. Also, without play testing these decks it feels hard to make suggestions on keeping the meta balanced.
After some time on gatherer and above posts. I think given these are constructed decks, seeing more 3-4 ofs and a few less 1 of's would likely make the decks more consistent and therefore easier to balance out. Seems like with some of the sparsity in card choices, game to game could be fairly different and make it harder to appreciate why one deck is under performing.
Blue: Temporal Adept seems good, if not better than the Big draw spell. Maybe harder for new people, but repeatable bounce with counterspell backup seems good. I saw the comment most games were won with the "Dig Through Time", I wonder if another merfolk looter would be more efficient for finding relevant cards, and being a little more mana efficient. A control deck with Millstone win-con seems fun :).
Black: I miss hypnotic specter, and with the slow format, Abyssal Specter looks appealing. How big is Revenant usually? Feels like a lot of mana, where a second Nightmare in a deck with only swamps seems real good. Or I think someone else mentioned it too, but more grave diggers look good, with some synergy between them, Fallen angel and the Assassin. Infernal contract seems cheesy, but i can see where it works here Is 2x Corrupt really necessary This seems like a game winning spell wit 6-7 swamps in play? The Skeletons seem real bad, Ostracizes maybe better, and feels a little more "black" imo.
First of all, thanks for contributing here. Nah, my playtest partners are all spikes, except for Karen who is new to the game. The more thoughts added the better, because who knows.. there might be some things we're doing wrong. And I do agree about the playtesting... the Granite Grips in red were only found to be strong during actual testing.. they seemed fine in theory.
About the blue... my friend Earl could pilot it and win during our testings... but when I use it, the deck often lose. Guess I'm just not really good at piloting mono U... hehe . Ok, will listen to your suggestion.. one more merfolk looter in. The problem with temporal adept is that R, W, G are very aggressive with weenie type strategy in the early game... keeping UUU open to bounce one attacking goblin, elf, or soldier does not stop the other attackers from dealing damage. However, the counterspells were increased... so will convince my playtest partners that we give adept another try. "Dig through time" is the nickname they gave to Ancestral Memories, and they also joke that Elspeth started off as a Knight Errant.
About black... Revenant is usually a 5/5, it was actually intended to be a second Nightmare.. but someone complained he feels black is often in the defensive to hold off attackers, so someone at 5 cmc is better than another 6 cmc threat. The deck is often put into the defensive, because red white and green like to finish the game quickly .. have a friend who shouts happily "there you go!" when casting might of oaks. You are the third person to suggest one more gravedigger... ok, I'll cave in to that, just have to think of what to replace. ^___^ Hmm, what to replace with Abyssal Specter? Yeah, 2 corrupt are needed... in actual games, the hp of this black deck decrease really fast when playing against the red, white, and green.
About Infernal Contract, Karen likes that spell a lot... however, two were found out to be broken in this meta.. when the deck is used by someone who is not a newbie to mtg. Limited to one.
Oh, about 2 weeks from now. Friends are coming over again. Will test the changes.
We use 40 card decks to make things more simple. These decks were based on the 7th ed preconstructed decks... except for the blue one, the decks in this thread has the same amount of spells, land, and creatures as those precons.
EDIT:
Oh, and I've also talked to my friend who used the black deck during our testings. Told me that turn 2 trained armodon is strong play during those times years ago that these cards were in Standard... and the black deck needed to be "fixed".
Finally able to have a get together today. Did 3 games.
Blue vs. Red. I use the blue
Game 1: countered everything except a Goblin King. I was also able to sneak in a Wind Drake. So the board state is a drake on my side, and a gob king on his side. He kept casting more threats but I counter them all, similarly I can't cast anymore threats because that would allow him to resolve something. Both of us taking 2 damage each turn. He burns the drake as I ran out of counters. I replace drake with a Phantom Warrior. Next turn I cast an Air Elemental, he burn it. I topdeck another Air Elemental, he burn it again. By luck I topdeck a third Air Elemental, and he's out of burn. Win.
Game 2: do not have any countespells , and get stuck on 3 land. Try to fight creature vs creature, but the red creatures are more aggro. Pyrotechnics kills Phantom Warrior and Temporal Adept. I go to scoop phase.
Game 3: start with Sage Owl. Have some counters again like game 1, but get stuck again on 3 land. This deck has 16 land, that's almost half the deck and I get mana screwed. Opponent is at 5 land, while I'm screwed at 3. Ran out of counters and scoop when a Storm Shaman starts attacking for large chunks of damage. Air Elementals and Confiscate stuck on my hand.
Game 2: have no mana producer but I have elvish archers. He has Drudge skeletons out for blocking, and it slows down my attacks. A foul imp that I can't block keep attacking. I scoop when a Nightmare joins the party.
Game 3: start fast with a combination of llanowar elves and wood elves. Get out a 4/4 Maro that become 5/5 next turn. Maro get's killed, but I follow up Uktabi Wildcats and other green creatures. Win when he ran out of removal. Opponent said that he has Revenant, but can't cast it because he had no creatures in the yard. Also told me he had a good hand, but the green creatures just came out too fast.
Green vs. White. I use green
Game 1: most intense game of the day. board state = oppoonent has a Standing troops with Serra's Embrace making it a 3/6, and a Serra's Advocate. I have hurricane in hand, 6 mana, armodon and an elvish archer. I need to kill the troops , but it has 6 toughness. I attack with archer and armodon, opponent blocks armodon with troops, then block archer with angel that use ability on itself to raise p/t to 4/4. Both my creatures die. Hurricane for 3 damage killing troops and angel which took opponent by surprise. I cast Spined Wurm, which meets Wrath of God. Final board state is I'm at 6 life, opponent has Glorious Anthem and Longbow Archer. I have Thorn Elemental with pacifism, and a 7/7 Wildcats with pacifism. I get enough mana, cast Aladdin's Ring. Longbow attacks me down to 3. My turn, I kill Longbow with the ring. Opponent's turn he topdecks a.... Serra Angel. Sad.. I could have killed the angel with ring if there was no anthem. Lost, but it's a good game.
Game 2: burst out of the gates with fast green creatures and plenty of damage. Try to apply early pressure like what i did with the black deck. And.. I walk right into a Wrath of God. The wrath killed 2 llanowar elfs, and it mana screwed me down to 2 mana. Got killed by a Sustainer of the Realm enchanted with Serra's Embrace before I got out of the mana screw.
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Things we found out today:
1. Razortooth Rats needs to be replaced with another crypt rats to help against swarm strategy employed by red and green.
2. One more nightmare for black to replace a revenant is requested by my friend who helped playtest.
Hi, the pic on top of this thread are pics of the actual cards.. and that box is the custom made box I created to hold five 40-card 7th edition decks that we use to teach beginners. We also sometimes play them for fun when taking a break from Modern. Why call them "duel decks".. well, because I created them to battle against each other only. All cards are from 7th Edition. However, after some testings I realized that creating a balanced meta is not easy. My fiends who are semi-spikes in Modern helped me to test them when they came to my birthday. First impression they had is the U and B are strong.. they are right about the black, but no one expected the R deck to be the strong one.
Posting the decks here to get some additional help from people who may have ideas on how to balance them further.
Please only use cards from 7th edition. I chose 7th Ed because of the simplicity.
BBBBB
While teaching my friend the basic rules of mtg. This is the first deck that my friend Karen decided to play. Black is surprisingly easy to teach to a beginner. Oh, and she liked these because the creatures looked like from a horror movie. One comment she often had when playing this is "I hope to draw that card that draws 4 cards soon!" She likes Infernal Contract.
This deck fights fairly against the others, except red where it has a slight disadvantage.
4 Foul Imp
1 Looming Shade
2 Crypt Rats
1 Stronghold Assassin
1 Gravedigger
2 Giant Cockroach
2 Nightmare
1 Raise Dead
4 Dark Banishing
1 Infernal Contract
2 Corrupt
Changes made to the deck:
After some playtesting Blood Pet changed to Drudge Skeletons
-1 Foul Imp +1 Drudge Skeletons
-1 Hollow Dogs +1 Revenant
-1 Serpent Warrior -1 Looming Shade -1 Razortooth Rats +3 Foul Imp -- need to lower the curve of the deck
9-16-18
-1 Fallen Angel -1 Dakmor Lancer +1 Revenant +1 Gravedigger
11-6-18
-2 Revenant -1 Razortooth Rats +1 Crypt Rats +1 Nightmare +1 Giant Cockroach
12-3-18
-1 Gravedigger +1 Giant Cockroach
WWWWW
The only creatures with activated abilities here are the enhancing guys.. Serra Advocate and Angelic Page - because I found them the easiest to explain to my friend. She use this deck just as much as black. Modern friends who came to my b-day also tested this. It does fine against everyone except against red. In theory, the goblins are no match for archers with first strike, and the knight errants are better than goblin raiders who can't block. This deck also has plenty of removal. Big mistake.. the red deck 3-0'd it easily. What happened is like a Klendathu with red = bugs and white = troopers. From what I remember, first game all soldiers got burned and goblins won despite three removed with pacifism, another game a goblin glider with granite grip was able to swing for 5 twice before being removed with a topdecked reprisal. Do I need to add healing salve to this deck? The salve seems good against red, but seems useless against the other colors.
2 Longbow Archer
2 Angelic Page
1 Standing Troops
1 Razorfoot Griffin
1 Serra Advocate
1 Kjeldoran Royal Guard
1 Sustainer of the Realm
3 Serra Angel
1 Reprisal
1 Glorious Anthem
1 Jalum Tome
1 Serra's Embrace
1 Wrath of God
7-28-18
-1 Pacifism +1 Breath of Life
-1 Angelic Page +1 Serra Angel
7-29-18
-1 Breath of Life -1 Knight Errant
+1 Angelic Page +1 Serra's Embrace
9-1-18
-1 Longbow Archer +1 Knight Errant
9-3-18
-1 Knight Errant +1 Standing Troops
11-6-18
-1 Pariah - 1 Seasoned Marshall +1 Pacifism +1 Kjeldoran Royal Guard
11-23-18
-1 Serra Angel +1 Knight Errant
12-26-18
-1 Wrath of God +1 Pacifism
GGGGG
Honestly, this deck did not win any match when tested by my Modern playing friends. Lost to multiple Air Elementals from blue, and lost to Goblin Glider with Granite Grip in red. As a way to help against fliers I added two Hurricane. Also removed Rod of Ruin - even in this low powered environment, 7 mana for 1 damage is crap. Replaced the rod with an aladdin's ring. I read in old 7th ed draft articles that Trained Armodon are strong, so added 3. Hurricanes, Armodons and ring are untested in actual games, would have to wait for my friends to visit again.
1 Seeker of Skybreak
2 Trained Armodon
1 Wood Elves
1 Elvish Champion
3 Elvish Archers
2 Giant Spider
1 Maro
1 Spined Wurm
2 Uktabi Wildcats
1 Thorn Elemental
2 Wild Growth
1 Might of Oaks
2 Hurricane
1 Jayemdae Tome
1 Aladdin's Ring
-1 Grizzly Bear +1 Giant Spider
-1 Treefolk Seedlings +1 Elvish Champion
-1 Redwood Treefolk +1 Uktabi Wildcats
-1 Trained Armodon +1 Elvish Archers
-1 Canopy Spider +1 Elvish Archers
-1 Seeker of Skybreak + 1 Elvish Archers
-1 Spined Wurm +1 Pride of Lions
7-28-18
-1 Uktabi Wildcats +1 Pride of Lions
7-30-18
-2 Rampant Growth +2 Wild Growth
7-31-18
-2 Pride of Lions +1 Spined Wurm +1 Maro
-1 Gang of Elk +1 Uktabi Wildcats
-1 Giant Growth +1 Might of Oaks
RRRRR
Initially thought to be weak.. it's planned to add a third Goblin King. Granite Grips were previosly thought to be terrible, so it' s fine to have 3 of them. However, in actual games this deck burns blockers away to turn Goblin Gliders with Granite Grips into killing machines. As a result... all Granite Grips removed and the planned addition of a 3rd Goblin King is cancelled. Makes good use of chaining Goblin Matrons to help fetch more men, and the firebreathing creatures Pygmy Pyrosaur, Storm Shaman, and Shivan Dragon give the deck some mid-game strength. Bloodshot Cyclops flinging firbreathers backup plan in case goblin rush get stalled. Oh, the granite grips were replaced with more burn.
2 Goblin Raider
1 Goblin Glider
3 Goblin Matron
2 Goblin King
1 Pygmy Pyrosaur
1 Storm Shaman
1 Orcish Artillery
1 Bloodshot Cyclops
1 Shivan Dragon
1 Crimson Hellkite
2 Spitting Earth
1 Final Fortune
1 Lightning Blast
1 Blaze
1 Pyrotechnics
1 Inferno
to slow down the deck a little
-1 Spitting Earth +1 Impatience
-1 Goblin Glider +1 Crimson Hellkite
7-27-18
Impatience not really good, changed to Final Fortune
7-28-18
-1 Crimson Hellkite +1 Storm Shaman
9-21-18
-1 Volcanic Hammer +1 Granite Grip
9-24-18
-1 Granite Grip +1 Pyrotechinics
11-6-18
-1 Pyrotechnics +1 Lava Axe
12-26-18
-1 Lava Axe -1 Storm Shaman +1 Crimson Hellkite +1 Pyrotechnics
UUUUU
Due the other decks becoming stronger, blue cannot be a control deck anymore. Forced to change it into a simple Merfolk aggro.
4 Coral Merfolk
2 Merfolk Looter
2 Lord of Atlantis
1 Prodigal Sorcerer
1 Daring Apprentice
1 Mahamoti Djinn
1 Vizzerdrix
3 Remove Soul
1 Equilibrium
1 Inspiration
-1 Prodigal Sorcerer +1 Daring Apprentice
7-28-18
-1 Mawcor +1 Vizzerdrix
7-29-18
-1 Equilibrium +1 Confiscate
7-30-18
-1 Temporal Adept +1 Prodigal Sorcerer
8-12-18
-1 Glacial Wall +1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Vizzerdrix + 1 Air Elemental, -1 Daring Apprentice +1 Fighting Drake
8-13-18
-1 Ancestral Memories +1 Remove Soul
8-14-18
-1 Wall of Air, -1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Sage Owl, -1 Horned Turtle, +2 Wind Drake, +1 Fighting Drake +1 Merfolk Looter
8-16-18
-1 Confiscate -2 Wind Drake +2 Phantom Warrior + 1 Remove Soul
9-21-18
-1 Island +1 Wind Drake
9-29 18
-1 Prodigal sorcerer +1 Temporal adept
11-6-18
-1 Boomerang -1 Prodigal Sorcerer +1 Sleight of Hand +1 Giant Octopus
11-23-18
-1 Ancestral Memories +1 Inspiration
12-26-18
Major changes to a Merfolk deck
9-21-19
finally changed to a merfolk deck with two lord of atlantis
Cards we have decided not to use:
1. Worship - still sees play in Modern even today, and will be very frustrating to play against
2. Intrepid Hero - too oppressive against the green deck
3. Castle - heavily argued on because it makes Serra Angels 4/6 both attack and defense, might be included later if the white deck keeps losing games against red
4. All the paladins because they are color hosers
5. Ancient Silverback - green already has the wildcats
6. Granite Grip - too strong with Goblin Gliders, this might be added again later since the other decks have better removal for flyers now
Cards we have decided to limit in use after testings:
1. Infernal Contract - very powerful card draw, limited to one.
2. Uktabi Wildcats - limited to two
3. Orcish Artillery - limited to one
____________________________________________
Oh, and lastly. I know many people dislike 7th ed for the art... yeah, I agree some art are not so good. But this is the core set presen t when I was first learning magic, so it has sentimental value to me. And as I stated already... my beginner friend likes these cards, so we would play these until she learns enough that we can move on to 60 card decks from other sets. Thanks again to all who give advice on balancing my beginner decks. ^___^
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The three Looming Shades in the black deck are one too many in my opinion. A second Razortooth Rats would be better here, I think. I also don't see much reason for the singleton Blood Pet. Another Gravedigger, however, would open up the possibility for some reanimation shennanigans, by cycling them into each other as chump blockers or even sac fodder for that Stronghold Assassin or Fallen Angel. A second Angel would probably be appreciated, too. Overall, more multiples instead of so many singleton cards would give the deck more focus and make it feel less random.
The green deck needs more lands. While it has Llanowar Elves and other ramp cards, you are basically paying mana to play more lands just to keep up with the lands plays of the other decks, which is the opposite of what ramp is meant for. You want to get ahead so that the big cards come down earlier. Uktabi Wildcats are even eating into those Forests. One or two Wing Snares as dedicated removal for flyers, which the other decks pack a lot of, would help greatly, and another Giant Spider wouldn't come amiss either. The Treefolk Seedlings are better replaced with some utility creature, because that 2/x is too weak early in the game (a 2/3 or 2/4 at most if at all), and not impactful enough later. Femeref Archers for example, could be a suitable replacement. Green hates flyers, so why not let your introductory deck show that more? Especially when the other decks pack so many yet green got none?
Can't say anything about the blue deck, it's just not my color.
Hope that helps.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
These decks I created alone.. but during actual testing I took advice and changed cards with advice from 4 other people. So you could say that these are the work of 5 people. And you shared ideas too, so it's 6 people now.
Will reply to your suggestions now. The black deck had 3 Looming shades because my beginner friend Karen liked them.. but I agree, when at the hands of a more expert player 3 are probably too much. Added a Razortooth Rats to my SCG cart.. it will replace one of the shades. As for Bloodpet, the initial version had two.. someone said they would teach beginners that black will do anything to gain extra mana... but 1/1 creatures are sort of underwhelming, so it was reduced to 1.
About white. The most initial version actually had 2 Intrepid Hero, but someone complained that the hero would be too much of a hoser against green, because green had few ways to remove it. The hero is also the reason why green had a rod of ruin which turned out to be crap, and the rod removed after testing. In the end, the 2 hero was also removed. Castle - this card was heavily argued on because it made Serra Angels 4/6 vigilance, so it got removed. Since you mentioned Staunch Defenders... I do have one, thinking of putting it in place of one of the angels. Is that correct, or should I remove something else to put the defenders in?
About red. Yeah, I agree that it probably has too many powerful removals and have to be reduced. I'm thinking of doing two things... 1. Replace a spitting earth with another volcanic hammer? Or... 2. Replace a hammer and a spitting earth with 2 shock? Sorry, I can't remove the Orcish Artillery.. it's there to teach new players that even if cards have a terrible drawback, it can still be useful. Artillery is only one anyway, and red can't tutor for it because it's not a goblin.
Lastly, about green. I copied the amount of lands that the 7th edition precon had. https://www.wizards.com/magic/displaythemedeck.asp?set=seventhedition&decknum=5&lang=en During testings it does sometimes get stranded with one land, which I use to cast a llanowar elf if I had an eld in the opening 7. Thinking of going up to 15 lands, but not sure what to cut.
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I don't see a problem with 4/6 Serra Angels, considering, that black's Dark Banishing, and red's Spitting Earth, and, if you add them, green's Wing Snares don't care much about toughness. Blue got a whole set of counterspells.
For the green deck, I already mentioned the Treefolk Seedlings as a candidate for cutting. Seeker of Skybreak isn't essential either, though it can speed up the mana by untapping Llanowar Elves. Maybe just cut the Bear instead, it's only a vanilla 2/2 and you've got three vanilla 3/3s now.
I would reduce the overall amount of burn in red's arsenal a bit, so simply taking out a Spitting Earth and putting something not burn related in, maybe another goblin. That's the least, you should do, I think. Other than the Spitting Earth, it's not so much the type of removal but the amount.
Former Rules Advisor
"Everything's better with pirates." - Lodge
(The Gamers: Dorkness Rising)
"Any sufficiently analyzed magic is indistinguishable from science."
(Girl Genius - Fairy Tale Theater Break - Cinderella, end of volume 8)
1. Redwood Treefolk needs to go.. it's so underwhelming. 3 power cannot even dent the walls and the horned turtle. Replaced with a second Uktabi Wildcats.
2. A second Giant Spider is needed. Added it.
3. Surprisingly.. green worked well on just 14 land. Would not add the 15th land for now.
4. Wing Snare is ok, but Hurricane is better.. since it can be used to kill a player that is low on life, or at least turn the game into a draw if the opponent has higher life total.
5. Equilibrium is a win con.
6. Elves don't like Prodigal Sorcerers.
So far it's almost equal now. With the slight advantage to blue.
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Also removed Hollow Dogs from black and replaced with Revenant.. because black needs another decent fatty.
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Solution... -1 serpent warrior -1 shade -1 razor rats +3 foul imp. And also bringing Corrupt back to two to compensate for the life loss from imps. Deck runs smoother now with more two drop creatures.
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Also tested Mana Clash, but it's more of a fun card and not really reliable on doing damage.
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I also was looking for a way to teach newbies (such as my GF) MTG, but my Legacy decks are way too complicated for someone never having played a TCG. Your decks look like a great starting point and I will continue following your optimizations!
She tried to play white, but cards like heavy ballista and samite healer are too complicated to explain... so I took those out and left only the angelic page and serra advocate - easy enough to explain the +1/+1 and +2/+2. And as expected, she also understood giant growth in green right away.
She does not like to pilot red...
____________________________
Oh, and this is not a solo project. My friends who play Modern competitively help me to playtest. Actual playtesting is needed to know for certain if a card is a good addition or not. And of course, I will also listen to some suggestions people here in the forum would make.
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Crimson Hellkite is not good. Replaced with Fire Elemental, but then the elemental is also slow... at last we settled to adding a second Storm Shaman. Shaman is relevant in early and late game. Also 4 toughness makes it a good blocker of armodons and giant spiders.
Final Fortune can stay. Surprisingly fun to use, but not broken. Dead card early, but useful for setting up a winning turn in the mid-late game. Card will make you think.
Spitting Earth will be kept at 2.
________________________
Changes in other decks
W
-1 Angelic page +1 Serra Angel
-1 Pacifism +1 Breath of Life
G
-1 Uktabi Wildcats +1 Pride of Lions
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-1 Breath of Life -1 Knight Errant
+1 Serra's Embrace +1 Angelic Page
And one for U.
-1 Equilibrium +1 Confiscate
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I had a friend having played YuGiOh before teached MTG - playing a Threshold deck he was totally confused and demotivated having to actively throw away his own cards.
To be honest in testings.. when both experienced players used the decks. The U deck sometimes win or lose with just 2 or 3 cards left in library. Anyway, about opportunity.. it draws more cards than ancestral memories... but memories digs deeper to find key cards for certain situations.. Perhaps this is another Dig Through Time vs Treasure Cruise scenario? Control decks want more cards, while tempo decks want better selection. The question is... do we have a control deck or a tempo deck.. or neither of the two? Well... testing will be done when my Modern friends come back in a week or two. ^__^
_________________________________
About newbie things that my friend Karen did...
Did not realize she has no more life to pay to cast Serpent warrior..
When she used green. She would turn 1 llanowar elves, then turn two use giant growth right away to make the elf 4/4 to swing for 4. Not realizing yet that g.growth can be used as a combat trick. Well, I did those things too when I was noob.
But she's learning steadily.. she now knows how to use reprisal as an instant. Kill large red creatures before they can attack. Just have to point out to her that growth can be used the same way as reprisal.
______________________________
Changes to G
-2 Rampant Growth +2 Wild Growth -- to allow more one land hands to be kept. Will also teach newbies that green can cause lands to produce more mana. Also another thing that allows turn 2 armodons.
Changes to U
-1 Temporal Adept +1 Prodigal Sorcerer -- the adept is not as good as we had hoped..
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I just ditched Wrath of God as well as Elvish Champion to keep the cost for each deck around 10-15€, which is pretty neat for beginner duel decks imo. Looking forward to get some more people into Magic!
Well, you could just replace the 2 Wrath of God with 2 more pacifism, and replace elvish champion with another armodon or wood elves. If you're teaching a beginner.. I suggest black as the easiest to pilot.
We haven't been able to do some final testings yet. Busy with a lot of things... but we might be able to do a get-together next Sunday. It's Thursday night here right now.
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Green vs. Black. I use the green.
Game 1: I start quickly with two trained armodons. First armodon get killed with dark banishing, but the second one get's in for a lot of damage. I follow up with Maro, then followed with a Giant Spider. Opponent slowly builds up blockers including a Looming Shade and a Stronghold Assasin. Maro turns into 5/5 and swing for 5. Next turn, opponent sacs the shade to kill Maro. Then topdeck a skeleton, sac skeleton to assasin to kill the remaining elephant. I do not draw anymore creatures, and got stuck on 5 mana. Hurricaned for 4 to bring opponent to 1. opponent slowly builds up the board and I got overwhelmed by black creatures and a corrupt on giant spider.
Game 2: won with beatdown from Armodons and Elvish Archers. Opponent was able to cast a Fallen Angel, but it's not enough because with only two blockers one of my three attacking creatures was able to get through with Might of Oaks.
Game 3: my opening hand is wild growth, llanowar elf, armodon, and the rest are lands. Opp goes first, cast Ostracize and discard the armodon. damn, my bad hand was seen. Topdeck another armodon and cast it turn 2 - lucky. An attacking Seeker of Skybreak trades with a Razortooth Rats. Game goes on, have an uktabi wildcats but choose to cast wood elves increasing my mana to 6. Getting beat down by two Foul Imps. Was able to reach 7 mana to hurricane for 6 damage to win the game. Just in time too, because top of opponent's deck is another swamp - would have been killed by Corrupt if opponent had one more turn.
Red vs White. I use red.
Game 1: Volcanic hammer a Knight Errant, while opponent pacifism my Storm Shaman. I made the play mistake of volcanic hammer a Sustainer of the Realm while a Glorious Anthem is in play, ok no takebacks so wasted my hammer and it went downhill from there. In the end, my 1/1 goblins face two large angels and a Seasoned Marshall. Lost.
Game 2: I go first but mulligan to 5. Start with a Goblin Glider, followed by a Goblin king. Opponent starts with an Angelic Page which keeps hitting me for 1, while glider keeps hitting in for 2. Two knight Errants for white, while a Goblin Raider and Matron comes to my side. Angelic Page pumps itself to block glider. Opponent wrath of God when I fetch another Goblin King from matron. We both rebuild, but opponent is getting some good card filtering from Jalum Tome. I manage to get opponent down to three.. and any burn spell would have finished the game at that point. Draw no burn, but draw a Blood Shot Cyclops which meet reprisal. Next turn I cast Shivan Dragon which dies blocking a 5/5 Serra Angel. Opponent topdecks another Serra Angel while all my creatures are on the ground.. lost. Could have won this game if I cast the dragon first, and the reprisal was used on the dragon instead of the cyclops. Well, I guess this just proves red is no longer overpowered.
Blue vs. Red. I use blue
Game 1: opponent goes first and I keep getting hit for 1 by a pygmy pyrosaur. Counterspell a Storm Shaman, then try to setup a defense with Glacial Wall, Horned Turtle, and Prodigal Sorcer. Turtle and Sorcerer were burned. I was overwhelmed by beatdown of goblins and the pyrosaur.
Game 2: I counter something then again try to setup a defense of glacial wall. Opponent is building up a goblin army, I kept getting hit by 1/1's. Sacced a Daring Appreentice to counter a Goblin King, then was forced to use Confiscate on a second Goblin King, opponent burn the confiscated Goblin King. I use another Confiscate on a Goblin Matron to further reduce attackers. Big mistake, should have just cast Air Elemental instead of confiscating the matron. Opponent cast a Shivan Dragon, and I'm out of answers. Scooped when air elemental died blocking the dragon. Need to replace Glacial wall with a Wall of Wonder, to help prevent continous beatdown of 1/1's.
Changes to U, -1 Glacial Wall +1 Wall of Wonder, -1 Vizzerdrix +1 Air Elemental, -1 Daring Apprentice +1 Fighting Drake
_______________________________________
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_________________
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-1 Wall of Wonder -1 Wall of Air -1 Horned Turtle, +2 Wind Drake, +1 Fighting Drake
Need these 2-power beaters. The game plan is to counter something or sage owl on turn 2, turn 3 cast a drake or sorcerer or counter something, turn 4 fighting drake or counter something, turn 5 an elemental.
These are probably the last changes. The spells really need to line up. Always the last color that I would teach a beginner, as it is a lot more difficult to pilot than the others.
___________________________________
8-16-18
-1 Confiscate -2 Wind Drake +2 Phantom Warrior +1 Remove Soul
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After some time on gatherer and above posts. I think given these are constructed decks, seeing more 3-4 ofs and a few less 1 of's would likely make the decks more consistent and therefore easier to balance out. Seems like with some of the sparsity in card choices, game to game could be fairly different and make it harder to appreciate why one deck is under performing.
Blue: Temporal Adept seems good, if not better than the Big draw spell. Maybe harder for new people, but repeatable bounce with counterspell backup seems good. I saw the comment most games were won with the "Dig Through Time", I wonder if another merfolk looter would be more efficient for finding relevant cards, and being a little more mana efficient. A control deck with Millstone win-con seems fun :).
Black: I miss hypnotic specter, and with the slow format, Abyssal Specter looks appealing. How big is Revenant usually? Feels like a lot of mana, where a second Nightmare in a deck with only swamps seems real good. Or I think someone else mentioned it too, but more grave diggers look good, with some synergy between them, Fallen angel and the Assassin. Infernal contract seems cheesy, but i can see where it works here Is 2x Corrupt really necessary This seems like a game winning spell wit 6-7 swamps in play? The Skeletons seem real bad, Ostracizes maybe better, and feels a little more "black" imo.
About the blue... my friend Earl could pilot it and win during our testings... but when I use it, the deck often lose. Guess I'm just not really good at piloting mono U... hehe . Ok, will listen to your suggestion.. one more merfolk looter in. The problem with temporal adept is that R, W, G are very aggressive with weenie type strategy in the early game... keeping UUU open to bounce one attacking goblin, elf, or soldier does not stop the other attackers from dealing damage. However, the counterspells were increased... so will convince my playtest partners that we give adept another try. "Dig through time" is the nickname they gave to Ancestral Memories, and they also joke that Elspeth started off as a Knight Errant.
About black... Revenant is usually a 5/5, it was actually intended to be a second Nightmare.. but someone complained he feels black is often in the defensive to hold off attackers, so someone at 5 cmc is better than another 6 cmc threat. The deck is often put into the defensive, because red white and green like to finish the game quickly .. have a friend who shouts happily "there you go!" when casting might of oaks. You are the third person to suggest one more gravedigger... ok, I'll cave in to that, just have to think of what to replace. ^___^ Hmm, what to replace with Abyssal Specter? Yeah, 2 corrupt are needed... in actual games, the hp of this black deck decrease really fast when playing against the red, white, and green.
About Infernal Contract, Karen likes that spell a lot... however, two were found out to be broken in this meta.. when the deck is used by someone who is not a newbie to mtg. Limited to one.
Oh, about 2 weeks from now. Friends are coming over again. Will test the changes.
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EDIT:
Oh, and I've also talked to my friend who used the black deck during our testings. Told me that turn 2 trained armodon is strong play during those times years ago that these cards were in Standard... and the black deck needed to be "fixed".
changes to black... -1 Dakmor Lancer -1 Fallen Angel +1 Gravedigger +1 Revenant
still not sure what to remove to fit in the Abyssal Specter..
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Hopefully, can test again soon. Friends are still busy with some real life stuffs.
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Blue vs. Red. I use the blue
Game 1: countered everything except a Goblin King. I was also able to sneak in a Wind Drake. So the board state is a drake on my side, and a gob king on his side. He kept casting more threats but I counter them all, similarly I can't cast anymore threats because that would allow him to resolve something. Both of us taking 2 damage each turn. He burns the drake as I ran out of counters. I replace drake with a Phantom Warrior. Next turn I cast an Air Elemental, he burn it. I topdeck another Air Elemental, he burn it again. By luck I topdeck a third Air Elemental, and he's out of burn. Win.
Game 2: do not have any countespells , and get stuck on 3 land. Try to fight creature vs creature, but the red creatures are more aggro. Pyrotechnics kills Phantom Warrior and Temporal Adept. I go to scoop phase.
Game 3: start with Sage Owl. Have some counters again like game 1, but get stuck again on 3 land. This deck has 16 land, that's almost half the deck and I get mana screwed. Opponent is at 5 land, while I'm screwed at 3. Ran out of counters and scoop when a Storm Shaman starts attacking for large chunks of damage. Air Elementals and Confiscate stuck on my hand.
Green vs. Black. I use the green
Game 1: I start with llanowar elves into Elvish Archer. He start with Foul imp which I promptly Hurricane on turn 3. On the next turns he gets out a Looming Shade and Razortooth rats. I get out a Trained Armodon, Giant Spider and Spined Wurm. Wurm get killed by Dark Banishing and Thorn Elemental in my hand get's ostracized. I kill the shade by Giant Growth a Llanowar elf that it blocked. Next turn he scoop because a Grave Digger and the foul imp it raised from the grave is not enough.
Game 2: have no mana producer but I have elvish archers. He has Drudge skeletons out for blocking, and it slows down my attacks. A foul imp that I can't block keep attacking. I scoop when a Nightmare joins the party.
Game 3: start fast with a combination of llanowar elves and wood elves. Get out a 4/4 Maro that become 5/5 next turn. Maro get's killed, but I follow up Uktabi Wildcats and other green creatures. Win when he ran out of removal. Opponent said that he has Revenant, but can't cast it because he had no creatures in the yard. Also told me he had a good hand, but the green creatures just came out too fast.
Green vs. White. I use green
Game 1: most intense game of the day. board state = oppoonent has a Standing troops with Serra's Embrace making it a 3/6, and a Serra's Advocate. I have hurricane in hand, 6 mana, armodon and an elvish archer. I need to kill the troops , but it has 6 toughness. I attack with archer and armodon, opponent blocks armodon with troops, then block archer with angel that use ability on itself to raise p/t to 4/4. Both my creatures die. Hurricane for 3 damage killing troops and angel which took opponent by surprise. I cast Spined Wurm, which meets Wrath of God. Final board state is I'm at 6 life, opponent has Glorious Anthem and Longbow Archer. I have Thorn Elemental with pacifism, and a 7/7 Wildcats with pacifism. I get enough mana, cast Aladdin's Ring. Longbow attacks me down to 3. My turn, I kill Longbow with the ring. Opponent's turn he topdecks a.... Serra Angel. Sad.. I could have killed the angel with ring if there was no anthem. Lost, but it's a good game.
Game 2: burst out of the gates with fast green creatures and plenty of damage. Try to apply early pressure like what i did with the black deck. And.. I walk right into a Wrath of God. The wrath killed 2 llanowar elfs, and it mana screwed me down to 2 mana. Got killed by a Sustainer of the Realm enchanted with Serra's Embrace before I got out of the mana screw.
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Things we found out today:
1. Razortooth Rats needs to be replaced with another crypt rats to help against swarm strategy employed by red and green.
2. One more nightmare for black to replace a revenant is requested by my friend who helped playtest.
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