Hi everyone I am looking for 4 good creatures to go together with tooth and nail G with a splash of R. I would like them to be unique and hopefully play off each other, so that if one or maybe two are gone (exiled or whatnot) things still work.
Xenagos, God of Revels and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn are a great place to start. You could throw another tank into that like Ulamog. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is a good one and the exile ability can be quite useful (obviously not with tooth and nail), Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre could be good with a fourth creature that grants mass haste. If its already out he can combine with emrakul for ann10.
Okay but what would the fourth creature be? Samut, Voice of Dissent – cant use the white ability but a good card Surrak, The Hunt Caller – easier to play, but only gives one creature haste Urabrask, The Hidden – perhaps the best card but the hardest to play with its RR requirement
Another idea I had would be use Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as the haste granter. The problem is that it won’t work on legendary creatures, so the tanks would need to be replaced. Probably with Worldspine Wurm and Ancient Stone Idol. Kiki-Jiki would then help flood by board with tokens. Of course I could always grab Xenagos for a 30/30 or 24/24 haste trampler if the board calls for it.
Thoughts? Am I missing a good haste granter or combo?
If you want to avoid cheesy infinite combos, the 2nd best creature to get with Xenagos is Blightsteel Colossus (22/22 trample haste infect is pretty good)
All great suggestions, thanks to everyone. I'm not necessarily against infinite loops - especially with all the removal my group runs with. 30/30 xenagos even with a chump blocker you are still dealing with annihilate 6. So Kiki and zealous might instant-win but with no protection a single removal will block the combo and you won't have much out for that awesome 9spell you just cast. If I added xenagos and worldspine I'd still have a reasonable combo of wurm+Kiki if both combos were blocked. Still, I can't help thinking the best combo is xenagos/emrakul/worldspine/Samut. Possible blightsteel should replace worldspine but I can't help thinking the overall utility of the deck is better with Kiki out of it.
This is still driving me crazy. I guess I have settled on Samut as the one for Xenagos.
However one player runs a lot of sacrificing. That makes me think Worldspine Wurm is the way to go. But Blightsteel smashes lifegain, it is so flexible. But can anything beat annihilator 6?
Blightsteel Colossus
Infect gets over lifegain. Indestructible means it doesn't die to deathtouch which seems to be around everywhere.
Worldspine Wurm
Sacrifice proof. Also might form a good combo with Kiki out of it, as I will get those tokens. Of course Kiki can't go with Emrakul...
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Protection from coloured spells, but can be sacrificed and also prone to flying deathtouch. Annihilator 6 is brutal of course. Also at 15 the one that is hardest to get out if I am not T&Ning it, which doesn't come up often.
I can't help but feel Emrakul is the weak one, however, the fact he is flying instead of trample means the two are more flexible with him in there... I just can't crack this one!
If you want to beat face the turn it comes in, Emrakul with a haste enabler is the way to go. Blightsteel while good, can look quite silly when the opponent blocks with a 2/2 and draws Sword to Plowshares or Innocent blood. Obviously xenagos does improve this significantly, but the lack of impact on board state is a concern. There's a reason that vintage decks often run Inkwell Leviathan over blightsteel. With emrakul you might want to run Urabrask over xenagos so that you are less vulnerable to sacrifice. It does open you up to targeted removal stopping the attack that turn, but it prevents a single diabolic edict from really ruining your day. Emrakul also laughs at Maze of Ith and Glacial Chasm in ways that other options don't.
Blightsteel + Xenagos
Vulnerable to sacrifice and instant speed exile, and instant speed bounce.
Blightsteel + urabrask
Vulnerable to being blocked by a 2/2 and punished at sorcery speed
Inkwell Leviathan + Urabrask
Slow kill but very hard to interact with. I only put this on here because inkwell is used as an alternative to blightsteel in vintage. It's a tinker target that isn't vulnerable to Dak Faden. Resistant to on board abilities
Worldspine wrum + xenagos
Pretty much the same as Blightsteel + xenagos, except that you trade resistance to sacrifice and ability to reanimate for dies to doomblade.
Emerakul + Xenagos
Vulnerable to instant speed sacrifice.
Emrakul + urabrask
Slower kill, and doomblade fogs, but not answerable by sacrifice.
Emrakul + eternal witness
Slow kill, but beats flying deathtouch creatures, especially if you have a way of sacrificing eternal witness. Vulnerable to non-targeted sorcery speed punish.
In any case you should probably run 2-3 Asceticism if you want to cover the combo.
Yup, sorry to be clear I am putting 4 creatures in the deck. 2 tanks and 2 hastle enablers in. I think that xenagos is the only "lock".
Thanks for your input. It's good to bounce these around. For now I think I am going with Xenagos, Blightsteel and Worldspine. The fourth creature is Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker which I think has a lot of interesting interaction with Blightsteel and Worldspine. Especially Worldspine, given when it gets sacrificed at the end of turn, you are getting 3x5/5 wurms. Furthermore, if I am concerned about the multitude of cracking dooms or just general sacrifice that gets run, Kiki-Jiki instead of Xenagos is quite a work around, given I can generate a token and copy that.
Overall it is a much slower kill that Xenagos & Emrakul but given the removal, and the slow adaptation to that combo, I think it will at least be interesting to try.
Be careful with kiki if you think they have a crackling doom in hand. They can respond to the kiki activation with it to ruin your day. Kikki does provide some nice coverage if you don't get greedy though.
Be careful with kiki if you think they have a crackling doom in hand. They can respond to the kiki activation with it to ruin your day. Kikki does provide some nice coverage if you don't get greedy though.
As I understand it, the effect would be placed on the stack, then I would have to sacrifice a creature (say Kiki and Worldspine are out, I'd have to sacrifice worldspine) and then the effect would still happen and I'd get a copy of worldspine for that turn... is that right?
no, the effect goes on the stack declaring the target, the target gets removed by crackling doom, and the effect fizzles as it has no legal targets on resolution.
Xenagos, God of Revels and Emrakul, the Aeons Torn are a great place to start. You could throw another tank into that like Ulamog. Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger is a good one and the exile ability can be quite useful (obviously not with tooth and nail), Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre could be good with a fourth creature that grants mass haste. If its already out he can combine with emrakul for ann10.
Okay but what would the fourth creature be?
Samut, Voice of Dissent – cant use the white ability but a good card
Surrak, The Hunt Caller – easier to play, but only gives one creature haste
Urabrask, The Hidden – perhaps the best card but the hardest to play with its RR requirement
Another idea I had would be use Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker as the haste granter. The problem is that it won’t work on legendary creatures, so the tanks would need to be replaced. Probably with Worldspine Wurm and Ancient Stone Idol. Kiki-Jiki would then help flood by board with tokens. Of course I could always grab Xenagos for a 30/30 or 24/24 haste trampler if the board calls for it.
Thoughts? Am I missing a good haste granter or combo?
Some options might include
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Pestermite/Zealous Conscripts (Conscripts is in your colors at least) = infinite haste attackers
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed + Triskelion = infinite pings at creatures and players
If you want to avoid cheesy infinite combos, the 2nd best creature to get with Xenagos is Blightsteel Colossus (22/22 trample haste infect is pretty good)
However one player runs a lot of sacrificing. That makes me think Worldspine Wurm is the way to go. But Blightsteel smashes lifegain, it is so flexible. But can anything beat annihilator 6?
Blightsteel Colossus
Infect gets over lifegain. Indestructible means it doesn't die to deathtouch which seems to be around everywhere.
Worldspine Wurm
Sacrifice proof. Also might form a good combo with Kiki out of it, as I will get those tokens. Of course Kiki can't go with Emrakul...
Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Protection from coloured spells, but can be sacrificed and also prone to flying deathtouch. Annihilator 6 is brutal of course. Also at 15 the one that is hardest to get out if I am not T&Ning it, which doesn't come up often.
I can't help but feel Emrakul is the weak one, however, the fact he is flying instead of trample means the two are more flexible with him in there... I just can't crack this one!
Basically
Blightsteel + Xenagos
Vulnerable to sacrifice and instant speed exile, and instant speed bounce.
Blightsteel + urabrask
Vulnerable to being blocked by a 2/2 and punished at sorcery speed
Inkwell Leviathan + Urabrask
Slow kill but very hard to interact with. I only put this on here because inkwell is used as an alternative to blightsteel in vintage. It's a tinker target that isn't vulnerable to Dak Faden. Resistant to on board abilities
Worldspine wrum + xenagos
Pretty much the same as Blightsteel + xenagos, except that you trade resistance to sacrifice and ability to reanimate for dies to doomblade.
Emerakul + Xenagos
Vulnerable to instant speed sacrifice.
Emrakul + urabrask
Slower kill, and doomblade fogs, but not answerable by sacrifice.
Emrakul + eternal witness
Slow kill, but beats flying deathtouch creatures, especially if you have a way of sacrificing eternal witness. Vulnerable to non-targeted sorcery speed punish.
In any case you should probably run 2-3 Asceticism if you want to cover the combo.
Thanks for your input. It's good to bounce these around. For now I think I am going with Xenagos, Blightsteel and Worldspine. The fourth creature is Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker which I think has a lot of interesting interaction with Blightsteel and Worldspine. Especially Worldspine, given when it gets sacrificed at the end of turn, you are getting 3x5/5 wurms. Furthermore, if I am concerned about the multitude of cracking dooms or just general sacrifice that gets run, Kiki-Jiki instead of Xenagos is quite a work around, given I can generate a token and copy that.
Overall it is a much slower kill that Xenagos & Emrakul but given the removal, and the slow adaptation to that combo, I think it will at least be interesting to try.
As I understand it, the effect would be placed on the stack, then I would have to sacrifice a creature (say Kiki and Worldspine are out, I'd have to sacrifice worldspine) and then the effect would still happen and I'd get a copy of worldspine for that turn... is that right?
Reference: https://blogs.magicjudges.org/rules/cr608/#2b