I'm not fan of Quest (once opponent on topdeck mode this won't be effective, Rack and Shortfang are enough for these kind of effects), Poxes (hits random) and Specter (too slow and need to conect to be effective)
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
once opponent on topdeck mode this won't be effective
This is where this card works as its best!!!
And 2 counters isn't hard to get!...
Obviously you want it out at the beginning, but even so, 2 isn't hard... (talking from past played deck with this card), now the story would be different if the number of required counter was 4 or 5...
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EDH Deck: UB Lazavm Dimir Mastermind BU GW Rhys the RedeemedWG WUG Derevi, Epyrial Tactitian GUW WUG Roon of the Hidden RealmGUW WBR Kaliaa of the VastRBW WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius BUW
I wouldn't play with Pox this card penalize you too much imho.
I would rather put unmake instead as a protection card against aggro deck.
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EDH Deck: UB Lazavm Dimir Mastermind BU GW Rhys the RedeemedWG WUG Derevi, Epyrial Tactitian GUW WUG Roon of the Hidden RealmGUW WBR Kaliaa of the VastRBW WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius BUW
This is where this card works as its best!!!
And 2 counters isn't hard to get!...
You know that Quest needs opponent to discard to get counters, don't you? Most discard spells are at sorcery speed, and once at topdeck mode, he will draw and cast, so you'll never get points on Quest.
Drawing it late game is a wasted dead draw, and serious decks don't like to have dead draws.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
Aggro gives you a fast alternate wincon, with a solid beating up!
Control will focus the victory on The Rack, just by stalling the board, with a random beating from remaining tiny creatures on the board.
MAJOR RULE FOR DISCARD: don't put into your deck too many sorcery/instant discard spells (usually 4-8 cards), because once opponent is on topdeck mode, they all be dead cards.
The advantage of discard creature is that they can beat/block/chomp block, even if your opponent is on topdeck mode and cast all his draws, then you can no longer use your discard spells.
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
I may have to put The Rack in my deck. However, I have found a potent way to make Megrim useful. Having Underworld Dreams on the field at the same time would make this even more deadly. On your turn, use Urza's Guilt, each player draws 2 discards 3 and loses 4 life. With Megrim out, they lose at the least 8 life, and then having Underworld dreams out makes it an even 10 if they had no hand to begin with. At most it can make a 12 damage hit. Or if you really want to screw things up, Careful Consideration on either turn, draw 4 discard 3, then they lose 6 from Megrim and 4 from Underworld Dreams.
but with my current decklist..do you think it could go give a headache to my opponent if i would play it against an oath of druids deck?
If you play against oath you are screwed if they ever untap with an oath. That means that they will immediately search up Iona, declare black, and you will lose. Against them you need duress. thoughtsieze, inquisition of kolizek, basically targeted discard. Always pick the oath, because if you don't, you lose. The main reason that this is a bad matchup often is that they really don't care about their hand once they drop an oath, which they do on turn 2. This gives you 2 turns (1 if they are on the play) to get rid of it, and without any of the cards mentioned you will lose. Also, I recommend cabal therapy, because you can always name the oath. However, in general you will not win due to their speed and the fact that they run counterspells. Hope this helps
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Winner of the August CCL '10
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
If you play against oath you are screwed if they ever untap with an oath. That means that they will immediately search up Iona, declare black, and you will lose. Against them you need duress. thoughtsieze, inquisition of kolizek, basically targeted discard. Always pick the oath, because if you don't, you lose. The main reason that this is a bad matchup often is that they really don't care about their hand once they drop an oath, which they do on turn 2. This gives you 2 turns (1 if they are on the play) to get rid of it, and without any of the cards mentioned you will lose. Also, I recommend cabal therapy, because you can always name the oath. However, in general you will not win due to their speed and the fact that they run counterspells. Hope this helps
Indeed.
And that is one of the reasons filling up the deck just with discard spells is not cool. Creatures packed with discard and other tricks are far better.
Ebenger, you must realize that Iona stops you from casting, but allows you to put your creatures into play through Oath. Shortfang and The Rack still works, so put a clock vs them.
In this particular match up, Throat Slitter is a nice card, you can play it by ninjutsu, which is not casting. This set forces them to set back with Iona, or get it Killed by Slitter, alongside it, Rack effects and discard (through creatures) still work on.
Also, Realize that grabbing Iona is not that simple. If they go just alone with her, they get milled before they can kill ya, if they run more creatures, makes tougher to find her.
It's a completely playable/winnable match up if you stick with discard creatures
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"Now i lay you, down to rest, you'll never be more than second best" (Megadeth)
So I want to try to put together a casual discard deck for myself. So far I am pretty much up in the air for most anything, except I know I would like to use Megrim (I have always been a fan).
I have also thought about making the deck black red BR, but aside from Burning Inquiry and Blightning I couldn't think of anything else for the deck. Ideas?
So I want to try to put together a casual discard deck for myself. So far I am pretty much up in the air for most anything, except I know I would like to use Megrim (I have always been a fan).
I have also thought about making the deck black red BR, but aside from Burning Inquiry and Blightning I couldn't think of anything else for the deck. Ideas?
Try to go Discard/LD if you are going B/R. I already talked about Sink Hole and Rain of Tears in mono black. Red/Black has Fluminator mage [Magus of the Wastes ;)] with stone rain and other castable options. Discard is about all about depriving your opponents fo resources. LD is a great way to keep them from playing what cards they top deck.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
Shut your filthy mouth! The reminder text on that card alone is an example of why I hate it so much.
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"Whatever style you wish to play, be it fast and frenzied or slow and tactical, the surest way to defeat your opponent consistently is by dominating him or her in the war of card advantage." - Brian Wiseman, April 1996
OK so I have been thinking about what you guys said about LD, and it just so happens that a card I have always wanted to play fits in this discription. Army Ants! He is BR, and causes constant LD (So long as he doesn't see hate). I will probably need more than just him to make the LD work, but it is a cool idea and fits right into another play, Swarmyard. So this is what I have come up with so far.
That is it so far. The idea is to mess up there hand hurt them with either Megrim or The rack/ Skullcage, and at the moment I have regenerating chumps with Army ants, and Ravenous Rats.
The mana cost is WAY LOW! Almost every card in the deck cost three mana. But this could be good and bad: Good: Army ants. If I don't need to spend much mana then I can blow up my lands to hit theirs. Bad: I only have 1 good 1st turn and second turn is pretty small too...
Is there any other cards that might fit in here at 1 and 2 mana cost?
While it has nothing to do with discard, you might want to include some Dakmor Salvages. This way you'd always be able to play a land, thus locking the op. better.
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Each reality is but the dream of another, and each sleeper a god unknowing.
We define the boundaries of reality; they don't define us.
I opened one last year, got two crap worldwake packs and 8x scathe zombies, which I promptly hid around my sister's apartment for her roommates to find. But, yeah, it was a piece of crap.
You, sir, have just won the internet. Congratulations.
I'd drop 2 Quest, 2 Bob, 2 Necropotence and 4 Duress, and 4 Swamps
Add: 2 Ravenous, 2 Chittering, 4 Removal, 3 Swarmyard, 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
You don't need Bob and Necro here, your CA is got by discarding your opponent, not drawing cards, 'cause that's all you need to The Rack effects put pressure into the foe.
Also, dropping discard spells to add draw spells in a discard based deck is not a good move. Dropping the discard creatures, you make Rack effects random, so not really going into the deck goal.
While it has nothing to do with discard, you might want to include some Dakmor Salvages. This way you'd always be able to play a land, thus locking the op. better.
That's actually a really good idea. It doesn't only combo with Army Ants, but I could also get it back after a Burning Inquiry.
Question: Is Duress the best card to hurt early game? Or should I get Inquisition of Kozilik?
I actually might be more worried about creatures than other spells, because of how few and small my creatures are. Is there a peek and choose creature discard card, or should I look for space for kill spells?
If you add red, wheel of fourtune or wheel of fate is good. I forgot which is the suspend one.
And also, burning inquiry. and blightning.
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
"The world is an endless abyss and tomorrow
draws you deeper into the darkness."
Thanks to Darth Monkey and SGT_Chubbz at Damnation Studios for the sig and banner.
I agree, if the deck is meant to deal damage through Rack effects, giving cards to opponent won't help much.
About suggestions: Dark Ritual, Swarmyard, Ravenous Rats.
I'm not fan of Quest (once opponent on topdeck mode this won't be effective, Rack and Shortfang are enough for these kind of effects), Poxes (hits random) and Specter (too slow and need to conect to be effective)
This is where this card works as its best!!!
And 2 counters isn't hard to get!...
Obviously you want it out at the beginning, but even so, 2 isn't hard... (talking from past played deck with this card), now the story would be different if the number of required counter was 4 or 5...
UB Lazavm Dimir Mastermind BU
GW Rhys the RedeemedWG
WUG Derevi, Epyrial Tactitian GUW
WUG Roon of the Hidden RealmGUW
WBR Kaliaa of the VastRBW
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius BUW
Casual decks:
UB Ninja v2.1 BU
GU Simic's Fathom v0.9 UG
RGW Sarkhan's Seasoning v0.80 WGR
WR Chandra's Rebirth v0.3 RW
I would rather put unmake instead as a protection card against aggro deck.
UB Lazavm Dimir Mastermind BU
GW Rhys the RedeemedWG
WUG Derevi, Epyrial Tactitian GUW
WUG Roon of the Hidden RealmGUW
WBR Kaliaa of the VastRBW
WUB Sydri, Galvanic Genius BUW
Casual decks:
UB Ninja v2.1 BU
GU Simic's Fathom v0.9 UG
RGW Sarkhan's Seasoning v0.80 WGR
WR Chandra's Rebirth v0.3 RW
You know that Quest needs opponent to discard to get counters, don't you? Most discard spells are at sorcery speed, and once at topdeck mode, he will draw and cast, so you'll never get points on Quest.
Drawing it late game is a wasted dead draw, and serious decks don't like to have dead draws.
"The world is an endless abyss and tomorrow
draws you deeper into the darkness."
Just before opponent is on topdeck mode, 'cause after that, it's a dead draw, as previewsly exposed.
I was wondering if you could help me out with my Discarder deck and what to change if i would make it into a legacy deck.. thanks!
4x The Rack
4x Nyxathid
4x Hypnotic Specter
1x Necropotence
3x Phyrexian Arena
1x Strip Mine
1x Vampiric Tutor
4x Dark Ritual
1x Consume Spirit
1x Demonic Tutor
4x Duress
4x Hymn to Tourach
4x Rancid Earth
4x Smallpox
There are many paths you can take. I, for myself, prefer The Rack tactics, but that's just me.
If you choose the same path:
Core:
01 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
03 Swarmyard
04 Dark Ritual
04 Thoughtseize
04 Hymn to Tourach
04 The Rack
04 CA / Creature Removal / Hand Control (depends on your meta)
04 Nezumi Shortfang
04 Ravenous Rats
From here you can go more aggro, or more control.
Aggro: Nyxathid / Tombstalker
Control: mass / spot removal through spells (Infest / Outbreak or Snuff Out / Doom Blade) or lil' combos like Crypt Rats + Swarmyard
Aggro gives you a fast alternate wincon, with a solid beating up!
Control will focus the victory on The Rack, just by stalling the board, with a random beating from remaining tiny creatures on the board.
MAJOR RULE FOR DISCARD: don't put into your deck too many sorcery/instant discard spells (usually 4-8 cards), because once opponent is on topdeck mode, they all be dead cards.
Always prefer discard spells with other functions, specially creatures packed with discard, namely: Mesmeric Fiend, Ravenous Rats, Chittering Rats, Augur of Skulls, Ashen-Skin Zubera, Headhunter, Oona's Prowler, Thrull Surgeon, Hypnotic Specter, and all that if you just keep mono-b, if you splash, you get a new set of creatures.
The advantage of discard creature is that they can beat/block/chomp block, even if your opponent is on topdeck mode and cast all his draws, then you can no longer use your discard spells.
but with my current decklist..do you think it could go give a headache to my opponent if i would play it against an oath of druids deck?
If you play against oath you are screwed if they ever untap with an oath. That means that they will immediately search up Iona, declare black, and you will lose. Against them you need duress. thoughtsieze, inquisition of kolizek, basically targeted discard. Always pick the oath, because if you don't, you lose. The main reason that this is a bad matchup often is that they really don't care about their hand once they drop an oath, which they do on turn 2. This gives you 2 turns (1 if they are on the play) to get rid of it, and without any of the cards mentioned you will lose. Also, I recommend cabal therapy, because you can always name the oath. However, in general you will not win due to their speed and the fact that they run counterspells. Hope this helps
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
Indeed.
And that is one of the reasons filling up the deck just with discard spells is not cool. Creatures packed with discard and other tricks are far better.
Ebenger, you must realize that Iona stops you from casting, but allows you to put your creatures into play through Oath. Shortfang and The Rack still works, so put a clock vs them.
In this particular match up, Throat Slitter is a nice card, you can play it by ninjutsu, which is not casting. This set forces them to set back with Iona, or get it Killed by Slitter, alongside it, Rack effects and discard (through creatures) still work on.
Also, Realize that grabbing Iona is not that simple. If they go just alone with her, they get milled before they can kill ya, if they run more creatures, makes tougher to find her.
It's a completely playable/winnable match up if you stick with discard creatures
I have also thought about making the deck black red BR, but aside from Burning Inquiry and Blightning I couldn't think of anything else for the deck. Ideas?
Thanks a million to SB4 and High~Light Studios.
Also, ich habe gehoert du magst mudkipen.
Try to go Discard/LD if you are going B/R. I already talked about Sink Hole and Rain of Tears in mono black. Red/Black has Fluminator mage [Magus of the Wastes ;)] with stone rain and other castable options. Discard is about all about depriving your opponents fo resources. LD is a great way to keep them from playing what cards they top deck.
Shut your filthy mouth! The reminder text on that card alone is an example of why I hate it so much.
4 Ravenous Rats
4 Army Ants
4 Hypnotic Spector
Other Spells:
4 Megrim
4 Blightning
4 Burning Inquiry
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Skullcage/ The Rack
4 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Akoum Refuge/ Dragonskull Summit
4 Swarmyard
12 Basic Lands (BR)
That is it so far. The idea is to mess up there hand hurt them with either Megrim or The rack/ Skullcage, and at the moment I have regenerating chumps with Army ants, and Ravenous Rats.
The mana cost is WAY LOW! Almost every card in the deck cost three mana. But this could be good and bad:
Good: Army ants. If I don't need to spend much mana then I can blow up my lands to hit theirs.
Bad: I only have 1 good 1st turn and second turn is pretty small too...
Is there any other cards that might fit in here at 1 and 2 mana cost?
Thanks a million to SB4 and High~Light Studios.
Also, ich habe gehoert du magst mudkipen.
Based on what you guys said, I came up with this:
Land
18 Swamps
2 Strip Mine
Spell
4 Duress
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Thoughtseize
4 Dark Ritual
Artifacts
4 The Rack
Creatures
4 Hypnotic Specter
2 Ravenous Rats
2 Chittering Rats
2 Dark Confidant
3 Nezumi Shortfang
3 Nyxathid
Enchantments
2 Quest for The Nihil Stone
2 Necropotence
What do you think?
Turn the chittering and ravenous rats into a playsed of Bob and necropotence and you're fine by my standards.
Host of the July CCL '10, Host of the March CCL '11
I'd drop 2 Quest, 2 Bob, 2 Necropotence and 4 Duress, and 4 Swamps
Add: 2 Ravenous, 2 Chittering, 4 Removal, 3 Swarmyard, 1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
You don't need Bob and Necro here, your CA is got by discarding your opponent, not drawing cards, 'cause that's all you need to The Rack effects put pressure into the foe.
Also, dropping discard spells to add draw spells in a discard based deck is not a good move. Dropping the discard creatures, you make Rack effects random, so not really going into the deck goal.
That's actually a really good idea. It doesn't only combo with Army Ants, but I could also get it back after a Burning Inquiry.
Question: Is Duress the best card to hurt early game? Or should I get Inquisition of Kozilik?
I actually might be more worried about creatures than other spells, because of how few and small my creatures are. Is there a peek and choose creature discard card, or should I look for space for kill spells?
Thanks a million to SB4 and High~Light Studios.
Also, ich habe gehoert du magst mudkipen.
Doom Blade
Vendetta
Smother