I don't see why sisay ought to be hated on more than any other general with a tutoring ability (except for maybe Maralen of the Mornsong). Vig is equally powerful if not more so, at least in my opinion
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I didn't want to vote that Sissay is overpowered, because I honestly don't think that she is. But I didn't feel that the second option conveyed properly how I thought of her. I keep her off the table as long as possible and I do my best to make sure she does not untap, because when she does the advantage that she generates gets insane really really fast. There should be a Really Strong, but not quite OP option. That would make me happy.
I agree with aslanteye, I voted for the second one without it really fitting the bill. As an Arcum player that plays against a Sisay deck at least once a week, I have to say it is powerful, but I do not believe it is broken. If there is another blue player or black player at the table I am usually not concerned. If the table is filled with aggro decks, it could be potentially a blood bath with Sisay standing on a mountain of bodies.
So depends on the group make up and what other generals are waiting to rear their heads.
I didn't want to vote that Sissay is overpowered, because I honestly don't think that she is. But I didn't feel that the second option conveyed properly how I thought of her. I keep her off the table as long as possible and I do my best to make sure she does not untap, because when she does the advantage that she generates gets insane really really fast. There should be a Really Strong, but not quite OP option. That would make me happy.
I voted Overpowered for the same reason. If you deal with Sisay they are left with a pile of cards, but if you can not deal with her then the card advantage she provides will almost assure victory
She is not bannable. But she is tier 1 and must be kept from untapping or you will likely lose in 3 turns. Personally I think you should hate out any tutor general + azami. If there is more then one on the table, you have to judge which to kill first.
I actually think Sisay is just decent in a competitive metagame. Her colors really hold her back, because the lack of blue or black means the only "busted" card Sisay can play is Survival of the Fittest.
She likely has the edge over G/R Wort and Uril, but Zur and Sharuum are far more powerful. Any general that is blue and/or black is automatically better than Sisay.
When I first started playing Sisay against Rhys the Redeemed and Stonebrow, Krosan Hero, I thought she was ridiculously strong; much stronger than most other deck I've built. Everything went so smoothly every turn and the same things would happen, thus ensuring me an easy win through consistency and card advantage.
Then I started playing against a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck and boy, did my opinion of her change. I mean, I still love Sisay but my deck is arguably fully tuned (even has a Loyal Retainers in it) and the Niv deck plays only commons and uncommons and I still get STOMPED every game (I'm talking 85% of the time). Sisay is just terribly vulnerable to removal. So much so that it hurts my soul whenever she gets burned or otherwise mutilated. For this reason, I've been playing the deck less and less...
Sorry for that rant. Long story short, Sisay can be very powerful but folds to removal. However, my experiences with her are mostly 1v1. Thinking of a multiplayer environment, I'd hardly say she's worth hating on (unless she survives for 2+ turns in which case, prepare for pain).
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I actually think Sisay is just decent in a competitive metagame. Her colors really hold her back, because the lack of blue or black means the only "busted" card Sisay can play is Survival of the Fittest.
She likely has the edge over G/R Wort and Uril, but Zur and Sharuum are far more powerful. Any general that is blue and/or black is automatically better than Sisay.
Is she as strong as Zur and Sharuum? Ofcourse not, but the rest of your post is just hyperbole...
Any general in blue or black is automatically better because they have access to blue or black? Maybe 1v1 thats true (it would at least be reasonable statement, but not neccesarly correct), but not multi by any stretch. Are they more powerfull colors in general? Ofcourse. But the ability to tutor every turn for things a lot more broken than Survival (really is that what you thought of when thinking of "broken stuff in Sisay"?). Sisay is pretty consistent with mass LD and other really strong combos. Crovax, Ascendant Hero+Kahmal, Fist of Krosa among others.
Sorry for that rant. Long story short, Sisay can be very powerful but folds to removal. However, my experiences with her are mostly 1v1. Thinking of a multiplayer environment, I'd hardly say she's worth hating on (unless she survives for 2+ turns in which case, prepare for pain).
I found myself a very very sad Sisay player until I started running Steely Resolve, Dense Canopy, and Sylvan Safekeeper (on top of Greaves), with a very robust Enchantment and Creature tutoring system. A friend of mine got so sick of losing to Sisay's shenanigans that he upped the amount of spot removal cards in his 5-color deck to SIXTEEN, and I still beat him in the majority of games. She's vulnerable, yes, but that just means you have to dedicate more of your early game to shrouding her. I can't think of a single game I've lost where Sisay has gotten at least 3 tutors with her protection setup in place, and you can almost always count on playing her turn 3 and often with haste, setting up an unkillable board that can answer absolutely any threat (often with sheer prevention) like no other deck.
...but, y'know, that's against decks that aren't running a million counter and theft effects. I'm with SC that anything with blue is instantly better. I've had to dedicate an entire sideboard to counter blue-heavy decks in the 1v1 tournament matches that I do, and even still it's a ridiculous uphill climb. Sure, Choke is awesome and back-breaking against blue--but good luck resolving it!
I've personally pulled off tons of wins within the first 5 turns, with a sort of sickening consistency. But every time I say something like that, I have to add a friggin' asterisk*.
*Against blue is another story entirely!
Sisay arguably rules the B-tier competitive decks, and is fast, explosive, disruptive, and consistent enough to give A-tier blue/black decks a serious challenge, but they definitely have favored matchups. Decks that can just win with 2 cards and can run the best tutors (with counter backup/shenanigans) are just obviously better. It's a frustrating fact of competitive EDH.
To be completely honest, the key things that make my build so "scary" (though not nearly as much as it used to be) around these parts is the sheer amount of time and tuning I've done, the money poured into getting awesome cards (yet, no Loyal Retainers), and the low curve that not all players have gotten on board with yet (2.8 average CMC). I'm not denying for a second that in a faster, more disruptive setting, my deck wouldn't be so "ohmygosh broken." But again, for a deck that doesn't have access to blue, it's pretty top notch when the protection permanents stick. A shrouded Sisay and Gaddock Teeg almost certainly means a win.
But more on topic: In my experience doing multiplayer tournaments, Sisay is enemy numero uno. In order to really stay toe-to-toe with the A-tier decks, you have to run some of the most obnoxious disruption ever to make up for your lack of blue/black, and this means making tons of enemies with Teeg, Hokori, Linvala, Iona, and Crovax. And certainly, players are on instant alert when you play Rofellos. Even if there are obviously bigger threats on the table (eg, BLUE decks), the hate will collectively come your way until you die die die, and resolving Sisay even once is too much to ask for with repeat plays. So yeah, it's not so much that she's an immediate threat, but a prison-style Sisay deck will result in so. much. hate. If you must build a multiplayer Sisay deck, make it derpy, with less disruptive Legends and more "good stuff" Selesnya. And lose more.
I guess what I'm saying is.. play Sisay if you don't want to make any friends, and if you don't want to win any tournaments.
As seems to happen often with these polls, I can't vote because there's no option that suits my view. I'll definitely hate her off the table where possible, but that doesn't make her overpowered. I just tend not to enjoy being locked down by Gaddock/Hokori/etc.
As seems to happen often with these polls, I can't vote because there's no option that suits my view. I'll definitely hate her off the table where possible, but that doesn't make her overpowered. I just tend not to enjoy being locked down by Gaddock/Hokori/etc.
Pretty much this. If I have the opportunity to kill her and no one else is going to, she's going to die. She's too powerful an effect to let run unchecked. I'm not going to preemptively pour all my fire into her or hate the deck off the table though.
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I'm less afraid of her than I am of any blue general.
That being said, games with her tend to be the exact same game every time, which gets a bit staid.
And shuffling a 100 card deck multiple times per turn, every turn, makes me want to jam a spork into someone's eye. Heaven forfend that a Sensei's Divining Top is in the mix.
She's not overpowered, but what she brings to the table, in my COMPLETELY PERSONAL AND SUBJECTIVE OPINION is annoying enough to get me to hate her off the table despite her being a lower threat priority.
Our gaming group pretty much focuses all murder on *any* tutor general at the table, since they tend to drag games out time-wise (rather than turn-wise). Some people who really know their decks well can blow through them quickly and not be much of a hassle, but that's not the vast majority of people playing those decks.
I've found if you can spend a couple thousand bucks on a Sisay deck, it can match any blue deck. I play mine against blue/black all the time, with excellent results. Of course if you don't have that kind of cash, it is much more vulnerable.
I have built and disassembled Cap'n Sisay many times. She's powerful indeed--and she plays so linearly that I couldn't stand her after a bit.
She's strong, yes, and I will definitely hate on her when I sit down across from her, since generally the deck wants her to function. I'd do the same to Zur (which I also retired).
But I couldn't vote because I don't think she's overpowered.
If Sisay is searching for mass land destruction with Crovax and Kamahl, you are facing something far more deadly but theoretically have a turn of wiggle room.
Yeah, Sisay can literally win the game in one turn even if you start your turn with nothing but her and 5 mana on the field. If that's how she's built, she should be hated out of the table on sight.
In your opinion, how powerful is Captain Sisay?
Do you attack her on sight?
Is she stronger or weaker than these generals:
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So depends on the group make up and what other generals are waiting to rear their heads.
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I voted Overpowered for the same reason. If you deal with Sisay they are left with a pile of cards, but if you can not deal with her then the card advantage she provides will almost assure victory
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She's great but she can be shut down just like any other deck.
She likely has the edge over G/R Wort and Uril, but Zur and Sharuum are far more powerful. Any general that is blue and/or black is automatically better than Sisay.
Then I started playing against a Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind deck and boy, did my opinion of her change. I mean, I still love Sisay but my deck is arguably fully tuned (even has a Loyal Retainers in it) and the Niv deck plays only commons and uncommons and I still get STOMPED every game (I'm talking 85% of the time). Sisay is just terribly vulnerable to removal. So much so that it hurts my soul whenever she gets burned or otherwise mutilated. For this reason, I've been playing the deck less and less...
Sorry for that rant. Long story short, Sisay can be very powerful but folds to removal. However, my experiences with her are mostly 1v1. Thinking of a multiplayer environment, I'd hardly say she's worth hating on (unless she survives for 2+ turns in which case, prepare for pain).
Any general in blue or black is automatically better because they have access to blue or black? Maybe 1v1 thats true (it would at least be reasonable statement, but not neccesarly correct), but not multi by any stretch. Are they more powerfull colors in general? Ofcourse. But the ability to tutor every turn for things a lot more broken than Survival (really is that what you thought of when thinking of "broken stuff in Sisay"?). Sisay is pretty consistent with mass LD and other really strong combos. Crovax, Ascendant Hero+Kahmal, Fist of Krosa among others.
Protection problems? Mother of Runes+Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.
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I found myself a very very sad Sisay player until I started running Steely Resolve, Dense Canopy, and Sylvan Safekeeper (on top of Greaves), with a very robust Enchantment and Creature tutoring system. A friend of mine got so sick of losing to Sisay's shenanigans that he upped the amount of spot removal cards in his 5-color deck to SIXTEEN, and I still beat him in the majority of games. She's vulnerable, yes, but that just means you have to dedicate more of your early game to shrouding her. I can't think of a single game I've lost where Sisay has gotten at least 3 tutors with her protection setup in place, and you can almost always count on playing her turn 3 and often with haste, setting up an unkillable board that can answer absolutely any threat (often with sheer prevention) like no other deck.
...but, y'know, that's against decks that aren't running a million counter and theft effects. I'm with SC that anything with blue is instantly better. I've had to dedicate an entire sideboard to counter blue-heavy decks in the 1v1 tournament matches that I do, and even still it's a ridiculous uphill climb. Sure, Choke is awesome and back-breaking against blue--but good luck resolving it!
I've personally pulled off tons of wins within the first 5 turns, with a sort of sickening consistency. But every time I say something like that, I have to add a friggin' asterisk*.
*Against blue is another story entirely!
Sisay arguably rules the B-tier competitive decks, and is fast, explosive, disruptive, and consistent enough to give A-tier blue/black decks a serious challenge, but they definitely have favored matchups. Decks that can just win with 2 cards and can run the best tutors (with counter backup/shenanigans) are just obviously better. It's a frustrating fact of competitive EDH.
To be completely honest, the key things that make my build so "scary" (though not nearly as much as it used to be) around these parts is the sheer amount of time and tuning I've done, the money poured into getting awesome cards (yet, no Loyal Retainers), and the low curve that not all players have gotten on board with yet (2.8 average CMC). I'm not denying for a second that in a faster, more disruptive setting, my deck wouldn't be so "ohmygosh broken." But again, for a deck that doesn't have access to blue, it's pretty top notch when the protection permanents stick. A shrouded Sisay and Gaddock Teeg almost certainly means a win.
But more on topic: In my experience doing multiplayer tournaments, Sisay is enemy numero uno. In order to really stay toe-to-toe with the A-tier decks, you have to run some of the most obnoxious disruption ever to make up for your lack of blue/black, and this means making tons of enemies with Teeg, Hokori, Linvala, Iona, and Crovax. And certainly, players are on instant alert when you play Rofellos. Even if there are obviously bigger threats on the table (eg, BLUE decks), the hate will collectively come your way until you die die die, and resolving Sisay even once is too much to ask for with repeat plays. So yeah, it's not so much that she's an immediate threat, but a prison-style Sisay deck will result in so. much. hate. If you must build a multiplayer Sisay deck, make it derpy, with less disruptive Legends and more "good stuff" Selesnya. And lose more.
I guess what I'm saying is.. play Sisay if you don't want to make any friends, and if you don't want to win any tournaments.
...
='(
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Pretty much this. If I have the opportunity to kill her and no one else is going to, she's going to die. She's too powerful an effect to let run unchecked. I'm not going to preemptively pour all my fire into her or hate the deck off the table though.
That being said, games with her tend to be the exact same game every time, which gets a bit staid.
And shuffling a 100 card deck multiple times per turn, every turn, makes me want to jam a spork into someone's eye. Heaven forfend that a Sensei's Divining Top is in the mix.
She's not overpowered, but what she brings to the table, in my COMPLETELY PERSONAL AND SUBJECTIVE OPINION is annoying enough to get me to hate her off the table despite her being a lower threat priority.
Our gaming group pretty much focuses all murder on *any* tutor general at the table, since they tend to drag games out time-wise (rather than turn-wise). Some people who really know their decks well can blow through them quickly and not be much of a hassle, but that's not the vast majority of people playing those decks.
She's strong, yes, and I will definitely hate on her when I sit down across from her, since generally the deck wants her to function. I'd do the same to Zur (which I also retired).
But I couldn't vote because I don't think she's overpowered.
If Sisay is searching for Gaea's Cradle, Gaddock Teeg, and Iona, Shield of Emeria... she is a menace that can still be overcome (at least theoretically) in multiplayer.
If Sisay is searching for mass land destruction with Crovax and Kamahl, you are facing something far more deadly but theoretically have a turn of wiggle room.
If Sisay searches for Paradox Engine... then Mox Opal... then Mox Amber... then Seton, Krosan Protector... then Oketra's Monument... then Rhonas's Monument... then Rhys the Redeemed... then Oath of Nissa... then Gaddock Teeg... then Akroma's Memorial... then Selvala, Heart of the Wild...
Yeah, Sisay can literally win the game in one turn even if you start your turn with nothing but her and 5 mana on the field. If that's how she's built, she should be hated out of the table on sight.
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