How have people felt using Dimir Charm? The counterspell discussion got me thinking about it again.
Obviously only countering sorcery spells isn't optimal, but the other two abilities aren't too shabby, either. They're a myriad of annoying utility creatures it can kill, and bad a bad Ponder means it can always be cycled off.
It's better than most give it credit. I actually like that it only hits sorceries because I generally don't like playing countermagic but one of my Wrexial decks biggest weakness as a result is being unable to respond to things like T&N and MLD.
The other two modes are really bad at all. Hits azusa, azami, birds, and others. The fateseal has more applications than people give it credit. It disrupts top deck tutors, top, messes with Dark Confidant,or can even be used in a pinch on yourself to set up a draw.
When you're limited to 100 cards (I know, right?), it's nice to have some utility. Dimir Charm reads:
Counter most non-creature game winners
OR
Destroy target utility creature
OR
Make the guy that just used Enlightened Tutor flip the table.
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Never really considered it as a card, I can see decent due to the reasons presented. It can be used to modify draws yours or your opponents. Even peek at a tutor spell, like vampiric tutor or a Liliana Vess or mess with Tops. I like the idea of that or even thin out the top of your deck to increase the likely hood for better tops.
Second countering a sorcery spell is very important in EDH, board wipes are typically sorcery, Genesis Wave, Warp World, Primal Surge, Mind's Desire, most reanimation spells are also sorcery speed. Sorceries come often in EDH due to some of them having such powerful effects.
I tried it, but I typically found myself wanting a normal counterspell in my hand instead. It's still pretty good, though.
EDH is a weird format. This is the place where Perplex sees useful play.
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It's so underrated by people with poor threat assessment. You don't need to counter and kill everything, and the things that do need to be dealt with are often things Dimir Charm can cheaply and easily deal with at instant speed. These include haymaker sorceries such as Tooth and Nail, Insurrection, Rite of Replication, or even a simple Demonic Tutor. Some of the most dangerous creatures are small enough to kill with it, such as Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Hermit Druid, Braids, Cabal Minion, Arcum Dagsson, and Jhoira of the Ghitu. It can deal with just about any utility creature, as well as top-of-deck tutors such as Worldly Tutor and Mystical Tutor are all practically staples that can threaten to steal the game at any time.
Bottom line: Worst-case scenario, you kill an annoying utility creature for cheap. Best-case, you prevent an opponent from winning the game.
For the record, Notion Thief is a 3/1 and cannot be killed by Dimir charm.
But you're absolutely right. It's a solid pick all around. If you're tight on slots and trying to get a modular card to fit the bill, this might be right for you. If you have more slots, running Codex Shredder + Hero's Downfall + Counterspell is probably better.
Hrm...3/1...that's the 2nd time I've misremembered a card this month. I should start double checking more.
I like it because I really, really prefer cheap instants. Dimir Charm is great because you only need to leave two untapped to stop someone from winning with a broken sorcery/small creature/tutor. Anything more than 2 mana I find tends to hinder my own tempo too much for comfort.
Sure it's versatile, but I don't think it's bang for your buck. A solid charm would probably do as much as Izzet Charm. It's possibly the best guild charm for EDH. Dimir Charm is strictly 2 modes most of the time...
I like that it kills Kaalia of the Vast and counters sorceries that might end the game. The draw-control is also highly underrated; if your opponent can't shuffle, you can force them to draw into a land (probably) or something irrelevant (almost certainly). It can be like time walking an opponent in topdeck mode.
I keep revisiting the charms. Obviously Gruul Charm is hard to include. It just... has such niche modes that it is hardly ever included in any deck I create. Bant charm is of course the best charm ever, I mean, just read it. A close second is Boros Charm, which kills almost any walker, saves your permanents and can help push through commander damage. For commander, Izzet charm the best charm of standard, still shines pretty good. Then we get down to the also rans which is generally where I put dimir charm.
Here is why I am reconsidering it: all the reasons mentioned in this post, but also because I find that cards like Ezuri, renegade leader, Austere command, and merciless eviction are really quite strong in this format and break my deck. Of course this argument is easily just beaten by counter spell which answers all of these and more. What I am thinking of with dimir charm is that it is particularly sweet with top deck manipulation cards as well: divining top, sylvan library, thassa, god of the sea, and similar effects.
So I guess the only reason Dimir charm ever makes it into a deck is if your deck needs situational cards... hmmmm maybe I am talking myself out of it?
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“Education is when you read the fine print. Experience is what you get if you don’t.” (P. Seeger).
The problem with Dimir Charm is that all of its effects are only kinda ok. Counter Sorcery? That's ok (but you can do that and more for 2 mana with other cards). Kill small creatures? That's ok (though how useful that is depends heavily on the decks in your meta and again at 2 mana you can usually do better). Do some weak library manipulation? That can sometimes be good (and again you can do better). it's really a question of if having all of these so-so effects all at once is worth the slot in your deck, and I find my decks are tight enough on slots that it just doesn't make the cut most of the time.
I run it in my Wydwen, the Biting Gale deck and I've been happy with it there. But that deck runs 12 counterspells (including the charm). In a deck that wasn't already counter heavy, I'd probably have trouble choosing it over a counterspell.
I run it in Jeleva since it's a counter that's still useful even if she exiles it. But in general, I'd rather have a more general purpose counter or a general purpose removal.
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Obviously only countering sorcery spells isn't optimal, but the other two abilities aren't too shabby, either. They're a myriad of annoying utility creatures it can kill, and bad a bad Ponder means it can always be cycled off.
Of course, a lot of the haymaker cards in the format are sorcery spells. Sweepers, Tooth and Nail/Genesis Wave, Warp World, etc.
Roon of the Pod People (Roon of the Hidden Realm)
Sydri, Super Genius (Sydri, Galvanic Genius)
Marchesa, the Black Rose
Lazav, Dimir Mastermind
Retired:
Grimgrin's Corpse-Beats (Grimgrin, Corpse-Born) | Jeleva, Nephalia's Scourge | Varolz, the Scar-Striped (1v1) | Glissa, the Traitor
The other two modes are really bad at all. Hits azusa, azami, birds, and others. The fateseal has more applications than people give it credit. It disrupts top deck tutors, top, messes with Dark Confidant,or can even be used in a pinch on yourself to set up a draw.
It's overall good, but sometimes requires setup.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
BRGWTana and TymnaBRGW
RTeneb, the EternalR
UBRNekusar, Mind RazerUBR
Rakdos, Lord of Riots
BGWGhave, Guru of SporesBGW
Aurelia, the Warleader
BDrana, Kalastria BloodchiefB
WBROros, the AvengerWBR
Counter most non-creature game winners
OR
Destroy target utility creature
OR
Make the guy that just used Enlightened Tutor flip the table.
All MtG tokens. Need 8 WotC tokens and 88 handmade tokens.
1 EDH for each color combination. Complete: C, U, G, UB, WB, UR, GU, BRG, WBG, RWU, BRW, WUBRG
putting it this way is a pretty good way to look at it. I do agree though, you'd think with 100 cards you'd have enough slots... noooope.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Second countering a sorcery spell is very important in EDH, board wipes are typically sorcery, Genesis Wave, Warp World, Primal Surge, Mind's Desire, most reanimation spells are also sorcery speed. Sorceries come often in EDH due to some of them having such powerful effects.
Finally the destroy target creature of power 2 or less is also useful, others have mentioned its "kill target utility creature" which isn't false at all Oracle of Mul Daya, Deathrite Shaman, Diaochan, Artful Beauty, Grand Abolisher and Mother of Runes.
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails, Faith & Wrath (Control)
Jarad, Life & Death (Reanimator)
Merieke, Seduction & Obedience (Control/Steals)
Intet, Dreamworld (Aggro/Control)
Rith, Predators (Aggro)
EDH is a weird format. This is the place where Perplex sees useful play.
All MtG tokens. Need 8 WotC tokens and 88 handmade tokens.
1 EDH for each color combination. Complete: C, U, G, UB, WB, UR, GU, BRG, WBG, RWU, BRW, WUBRG
Because the other cards that would fill Charm's slot are so unfriendly to a person's wallet?
Bottom line: Worst-case scenario, you kill an annoying utility creature for cheap. Best-case, you prevent an opponent from winning the game.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
But you're absolutely right. It's a solid pick all around. If you're tight on slots and trying to get a modular card to fit the bill, this might be right for you. If you have more slots, running Codex Shredder + Hero's Downfall + Counterspell is probably better.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I like it because I really, really prefer cheap instants. Dimir Charm is great because you only need to leave two untapped to stop someone from winning with a broken sorcery/small creature/tutor. Anything more than 2 mana I find tends to hinder my own tempo too much for comfort.
Mono Red's Strengths and Mono White's Strengths
UR Melek, Izzet ParagonUR, B Shirei, Shizo's CaretakerB, R Jaya Ballard, Task MageR,RW Tajic, Blade of the LegionRW, UB Lazav, Dimir MastermindUB, UB Circu, Dimir LobotomistUB, RWU Zedruu the GreatheartedRWU, GUBThe MimeoplasmGUB, UGExperiment Kraj UG, WDarien, King of KjeldorW, BMarrow-GnawerB, WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBG, UTeferi, Temporal ArchmageU, GWUDerevi, Empyrial TacticianGWU, RDaretti, Scrap SavantR, UTalrand, Sky SummonerU, GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG, WUBRGReaper KingWUBRG, RGXenagos, God of RevelsRG, CKozilek, Butcher of TruthC, WUBRGGeneral TazriWUBRG, GTitania, Protector of ArgothG
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Here is why I am reconsidering it: all the reasons mentioned in this post, but also because I find that cards like Ezuri, renegade leader, Austere command, and merciless eviction are really quite strong in this format and break my deck. Of course this argument is easily just beaten by counter spell which answers all of these and more. What I am thinking of with dimir charm is that it is particularly sweet with top deck manipulation cards as well: divining top, sylvan library, thassa, god of the sea, and similar effects.
So I guess the only reason Dimir charm ever makes it into a deck is if your deck needs situational cards... hmmmm maybe I am talking myself out of it?