Now, Red has always been my least favorite color in EDH and Magic in general. I've always dreamed of one day having an EDH deck of every tri color, bi color and mono color, but I've never seen a Red general that really interested me until now.
So, what can we do with this guy? My first thought was some kind of Darksteel Reactor or Ion Storm-centered deck, but does mono red have the tools to support this kind of thing?
He doesn't do anything with Darksteel Reactor, he can only use his ability on activated effects, not triggered ones. He's basically Rings of Brighthearth on a stick. Unless you're talking about using Coretapper or what have you to put extra charge counters on it and copy that. Still, it seems like Vorel would be much better for that.
I always believed Red has good support for artifact strategies, apart from destroying them. Unfortunately, the only choices for general Red has is Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer and Miami Heat and Joven.
With Kurkesh, you have a very relevant ability that artifacts "love", due to the fact that it is not restricted to activated or triggered abilities
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Modern Decks:
Lantern Control
Bogles (RIP)
Living Belcher (RIP)
Unless you're talking about using Coretapper or what have you to put extra charge counters on it and copy that. Still, it seems like Vorel would be much better for that.
That's what I was talking about, yes. It was just the first idea that popped into my mind because I used to have a casual Darksteel Reactor/Ion Storm deck. Vorel may be better, but Vorel has a ton of fun UG cards and creatures that involve counters to play with already, so I want to see what Kurkesh can do and I'd like to see an artifact-based deck that's not Blue or Sharuum.
Magistrate's Scepter
T0: Play Scepter - put 1 counter on it (copy with Kurk)
T1: Put counter on it (copy with Kurk)
T2: Activate extra turn ability (copy it)
T2+1: Activate for counter (copy with Kurt)
T2+2: Activate for turn (copy it)
T2+3: counter on it (copy)
T2+4: counter on it (copy)
Pretty low cost way to get a ton of extra turns (assuming no artifact destruction)
I'd say yes. Slobad is good because he can protect your artifacts, but with very few tutors, red has trouble assembling powerful artifact combos. With Kurkesh, you can just find artifacts that work well with him. You lose the protection but you also don't need it as much.
Goblin Welder would probably have fun in this kind of deck.
Mycosynth Lattice is definitely good. Liquimetal coating is also really good. Not only do they combo with your commander, they also combo with your artifact removal (as apocalypse31 has mentioned). You can use them on planeswalkers to get double abilities (though not double loyalty), or you can use them on lands like strip mine for double bonus effects. There are lots of applications.
I think people have been overlooking his simple cantrip options. Poping a Relic of Progenitus / Scrabbling Claws / Phyrexian Furnace and just drawing a few cards for little mana seems good. Chromatic Sphere will cost 2R, gives you RR and 2 cards. That simple sort of stuff seems fun and cool to abuse.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
He seems insanely strong. As I mentioned in the New Card Discussion thread, Koth's -2 isn't a mana ability so making him an artifact becomes an insanely strong mana engine.
Strionic Resonator lets you get ridiculous, with both it and Kurkesh copying each-other's abilities. Adding in ways to untap it, like the aforementioned Key, makes it even better.
Really, the best way to build him so far seems to be just lots of little activated ability interactions that build off of eachother to do a lot of work.
Does the copied effect of Avarice Totem still work when it already changed control and the 2nd ability on the stack resolves?
If you activate Avarice Totem targeting one of your own permanents, then copy it with Kurkesh and having the copy target one of your opponents' permanents, the copy resolves first. So the Totem switches for anything you want, then switches back for anything you don't want to hang on to. They can interrupt this by activating Totem after the copy resolves, so it only really works if the guy you're stealing from doesn't have 5 mana open.
So basically you turn any one of your cards into any-permanent Gilded Drake for 5R a pop. Seems pretty good.
I would also like to say that if you have Goblin Welder out, you could then Sac an artifact, pay R, and get two artifacts back as long as the Welder is an artifact.
Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Key + Any Tap to Ping (If Creature, just turn it into an artifact) + Infinite Mana = Instant Win
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I would also like to say that if you have Goblin Welder out, you could then Sac an artifact, pay R, and get two artifacts back as long as the Welder is an artifact.
Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Key + Any Tap to Ping (If Creature, just turn it into an artifact) + Infinite Mana = Instant Win
Exchange effects only work if both targets are still valid when it resolves so it doesn't quite work. I am assuming you were referring to swapping an artifact with something in grave and trying to use the same artifact as the target to get a second one in. It wont work in this case because of how exchange effects work.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I would also like to say that if you have Goblin Welder out, you could then Sac an artifact, pay R, and get two artifacts back as long as the Welder is an artifact.
Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Key + Any Tap to Ping (If Creature, just turn it into an artifact) + Infinite Mana = Instant Win
Exchange effects only work if both targets are still valid when it resolves so it doesn't quite work. I am assuming you were referring to swapping an artifact with something in grave and trying to use the same artifact as the target to get a second one in. It wont work in this case because of how exchange effects work.
I'm sad now.
But still, this guy looks FUN.
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Oath of the Gatewatch; the set that caused the competitive community to freak out over Basic Lands.
I would also like to say that if you have Goblin Welder out, you could then Sac an artifact, pay R, and get two artifacts back as long as the Welder is an artifact.
Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Key + Any Tap to Ping (If Creature, just turn it into an artifact) + Infinite Mana = Instant Win
Exchange effects only work if both targets are still valid when it resolves so it doesn't quite work. I am assuming you were referring to swapping an artifact with something in grave and trying to use the same artifact as the target to get a second one in. It wont work in this case because of how exchange effects work.
Does this work with top? Can I put the top ability on the stack, then swap something in the GY with it? Will top still go on top of the library?
My Rakka Mar deck is getting so artifact-intensive that I should consider this guy, but I'm not quite there, yet.
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Oh, you think the losers' bracket is your ally, but you merely adopted the scrub tier. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn’t 4-0 an FNM until I was already a man; by then, it was nothing to me but an extra pack to sell for store credit!
Does this work with top? Can I put the top ability on the stack, then swap something in the GY with it? Will top still go on top of the library?
Top at this point will have changed zones and so it will loose track of it. You will still draw a card I believe but you wont recover your top. Top is good with this commander though because you can just pay 1R to draw a card though which is sort of fun.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
This guy can only copy artifacts. Welder is not an Artifact.
Most of these are things that people are considering during effects like Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice. You are correct though but I think some of them are just pipe dream sort of situations people are considering.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Honestly, Coming from a commander player who has a Slobad deck, this guy is very underwhelming.
The only reason Basalt Monolith is good is because you can go infinite with it and it can gain you some small value. This guy only copies artifacts, doesn'tt let you combo off, and therefore feels like a win-more card.
Would Koth of the Hammer's -2 ability count as a non mana ability if he was turned into an artifact for the purposes of copying the effect with Kurkesh?
He has an interesting interaction with Spawning Pit, making it into "1RR, Sacrifice a creature: Put two 2/2 colorless Spawn artifact creature tokens into play."
Any of the Tome type cards become better when he's in play. One odd one that amused me was Arcane Spyglass, since it can turn a land into two cards, and every three lands gets you four additional cards. I don't know if that's good enough, but it's amusing at least, especially for a mono-color that doesn't get a ton of drawpower.
Coalition Relic is an amusing way around the "no mana abilities", letting you store two mana instead of just one.
Speaking of charge counters, Contagion Engine seems hilarious, allowing you to proliferate four times in a row.
Edit: Oooh, Grim Poppet is interesting with this, becoming R: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
Would Koth of the Hammer's -2 ability count as a non mana ability if he was turned into an artifact for the purposes of copying the effect with Kurkesh?
Planeswalker abilities are never considered mana abilities so yes.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Now, Red has always been my least favorite color in EDH and Magic in general. I've always dreamed of one day having an EDH deck of every tri color, bi color and mono color, but I've never seen a Red general that really interested me until now.
So, what can we do with this guy? My first thought was some kind of Darksteel Reactor or Ion Storm-centered deck, but does mono red have the tools to support this kind of thing?
Darksteel Reactor
Coretapper
Voltaic Key
Lux Cannon
Contagion Engine
Magistrate's Scepter
Power Conduit
Throne of Geth
Titan Forge
Those seem like an interesting start. Here are some other cards I found that might have fun/good interactions with Kurkesh:
Crystal Ball
Goblin Charbelcher
Grinding Station
Journeyer's Kite
Mimic Vat
Ring of Three Wishes / Planar Portal
Temporal Aperture
Trading Post
Deal Broker
Brittle Effigy / Amulet of Unmaking
Disrupting Scepter
What are some other cool things he can do? What are some other good mono-red artifact support cards?
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With Kurkesh, you have a very relevant ability that artifacts "love", due to the fact that it is not restricted to activated or triggered abilities
Lantern Control
Bogles (RIP)
Living Belcher (RIP)
That's what I was talking about, yes. It was just the first idea that popped into my mind because I used to have a casual Darksteel Reactor/Ion Storm deck. Vorel may be better, but Vorel has a ton of fun UG cards and creatures that involve counters to play with already, so I want to see what Kurkesh can do and I'd like to see an artifact-based deck that's not Blue or Sharuum.
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Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
Sig and Avatar Credit: Heroes of the Plane Studios
Magistrate's Scepter
T0: Play Scepter - put 1 counter on it (copy with Kurk)
T1: Put counter on it (copy with Kurk)
T2: Activate extra turn ability (copy it)
T2+1: Activate for counter (copy with Kurt)
T2+2: Activate for turn (copy it)
T2+3: counter on it (copy)
T2+4: counter on it (copy)
Pretty low cost way to get a ton of extra turns (assuming no artifact destruction)
Isochron Scepter
Tormod's Crypt
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
I'd say yes. Slobad is good because he can protect your artifacts, but with very few tutors, red has trouble assembling powerful artifact combos. With Kurkesh, you can just find artifacts that work well with him. You lose the protection but you also don't need it as much.
Goblin Welder would probably have fun in this kind of deck.
Mycosynth Lattice is definitely good. Liquimetal coating is also really good. Not only do they combo with your commander, they also combo with your artifact removal (as apocalypse31 has mentioned). You can use them on planeswalkers to get double abilities (though not double loyalty), or you can use them on lands like strip mine for double bonus effects. There are lots of applications.
BBB Two Hundred Zombies BBB
Duel Commander
WR Tajic, Wrath of the Manlands RW
BGW Doran Destruction WGB
Commander
GUB Mimeoplasm, Screw Politics BUG
BR Mogis, God of Slaughter RB
RGW Marath, Ramp and Removal WGR
WUBRG Karona, Jank God GRBUW
Add Gemstone Array and yes, that's another infinite.
Draft my Peasant Cube.
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He seems insanely strong. As I mentioned in the New Card Discussion thread, Koth's -2 isn't a mana ability so making him an artifact becomes an insanely strong mana engine.
Strionic Resonator lets you get ridiculous, with both it and Kurkesh copying each-other's abilities. Adding in ways to untap it, like the aforementioned Key, makes it even better.
Really, the best way to build him so far seems to be just lots of little activated ability interactions that build off of eachother to do a lot of work.
If you activate Avarice Totem targeting one of your own permanents, then copy it with Kurkesh and having the copy target one of your opponents' permanents, the copy resolves first. So the Totem switches for anything you want, then switches back for anything you don't want to hang on to. They can interrupt this by activating Totem after the copy resolves, so it only really works if the guy you're stealing from doesn't have 5 mana open.
So basically you turn any one of your cards into any-permanent Gilded Drake for 5R a pop. Seems pretty good.
Voltaic Construct/Voltaic Key + Any Tap to Ping (If Creature, just turn it into an artifact) + Infinite Mana = Instant Win
Exchange effects only work if both targets are still valid when it resolves so it doesn't quite work. I am assuming you were referring to swapping an artifact with something in grave and trying to use the same artifact as the target to get a second one in. It wont work in this case because of how exchange effects work.
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[Modern] Allies
I'm sad now.
But still, this guy looks FUN.
Does this work with top? Can I put the top ability on the stack, then swap something in the GY with it? Will top still go on top of the library?
Chromatic Sphere's activation is a mana ability, so no go there.
My Rakka Mar deck is getting so artifact-intensive that I should consider this guy, but I'm not quite there, yet.
Top at this point will have changed zones and so it will loose track of it. You will still draw a card I believe but you wont recover your top. Top is good with this commander though because you can just pay 1R to draw a card though which is sort of fun.
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[Modern] Allies
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Most of these are things that people are considering during effects like Liquimetal Coating or Mycosynth Lattice. You are correct though but I think some of them are just pipe dream sort of situations people are considering.
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[Modern] Allies
The only reason Basalt Monolith is good is because you can go infinite with it and it can gain you some small value. This guy only copies artifacts, doesn'tt let you combo off, and therefore feels like a win-more card.
Here's the link: https://chrome.google.com/webstore/detail/autocardanywhere/eobkhgkgoejnjaiofdmphhkemmomfabg?hl=en
Any of the Tome type cards become better when he's in play. One odd one that amused me was Arcane Spyglass, since it can turn a land into two cards, and every three lands gets you four additional cards. I don't know if that's good enough, but it's amusing at least, especially for a mono-color that doesn't get a ton of drawpower.
Coalition Relic is an amusing way around the "no mana abilities", letting you store two mana instead of just one.
Speaking of charge counters, Contagion Engine seems hilarious, allowing you to proliferate four times in a row.
Edit: Oooh, Grim Poppet is interesting with this, becoming R: Put a -1/-1 counter on target creature.
Planeswalker abilities are never considered mana abilities so yes.
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[Modern] Allies