so I had a bit of a weird situation today. I went down to my store hopin g to test some modern for GP Toronto next week, but nbody was down there to play modern. Just the typical group that usually plays casual 60 card and EDH every Saturday. and by casual I mean probably the most casual group I've ever seen. I've played EDH with them a few times, not really having any problems, only getting naged up on once when I was getting out of hand (which I'm fine with, because it's natural)
I decided I'd play a game of EDH with them. I wanted to play my Sharuum deck, telling them it was a pretty good deck, but if they wanted me to, I'd switch decks if they wanted me to. However, they were fine with me playing it, the one guy who I've known for a while said he was the one who usually got ganged up on but we could both do our thing.
Basically, I had a really good start. Had my Tezzeret, agent of bolas on my opening hand. Went turn one flooded strand, getting godless shrine, topdecking mana crypt then playing the blue artifact land and then casting Tezz. Heard groans starting after the crypt. Tezz digs for me. Eventually, I had a bunch of mana rocks, Tezz aob and seeker and a scroll rack. so i was doing well. Eventually, I was able to dig for a blood artist and sculpting steel and way more than enough mana to combo. I went to combo, playing blood artist then sharuum, getting back my mana crypt which was destroyed in response to a a seeker activation, then played the steel . I asked if everyone knows how it worked, the guy who I had known for a while said it doesn't work the way I want it to. I told him the steel enters as a copy of sharuum, then state based actions are checked before the etb of the copy happen, forcing me to send one of my sharuums to the grave (obv the original for this to work) then repeating the loop. He then says it doesn't work, because he saw it on modo. He said the etbs resolve before state based actions.
I then ask my friend who's an L2 and he agrees with me, but the table just says the judge doesn't understand teh rules. Eventually, they just give up and leave the store outright.
how would you have handled this situation?
I know there was an issue of playing a deck that was way stronger than the table but I figured I'd ask them if they were fine, which they were.
would you just not play with them or would you just give them a bit to relax and get over it?
had a similar problem when trying to explain Teferi chain veil combo when I assembled it. it seems more that the players try to find a reason why it doesn't work. With a a whole table that doesnt like losing to a combo after I do my thing I let them know they can feel free to play out the game. you can at this point sit and watch how the fight unfolds (gets you brownie points from those players) or go find another game. I find watching the game makes you more included in the playgroup and might make future combo plays more acceptable.
and of course the next game play your fair commander that liked to turn sideways.
So, I get the frustrating part about the other players not knowing how the combo (or the rules in general) works so there is something to be said about that. However, you said this group is "casual". So much so that you made it a point to call it out in your summary above. Why then, with a group as casual as this, would you bust out Sharuum combo? That, to me, is kind of a dick move. Yeah, they said they were fine with it, but had they ever played against the deck before? Did they know it was just going to "go off" and end the game in one turn? Considering they didn't even know how the combo worked, let alone that it *did* work, leads me to believe that they had no idea what they were getting into. But you certainly knew what your deck was going to do and how much better it was than theirs.
Those players had every right to be salty. They were planning on a good old-fashioned game of EDH with some back and forth and playing their bombs and whatever else. What they got was a few turns of build up and then the game just ending.
Whether or not their final reaction (leaving he shop entirely) was justified is up for debate. I probably would have just started another game and encouraged you to find a different group to play with rather than just leaving. It is one thing to bring a combo deck into a meta that can handle and prepare for it even if others are not playing combo, but this is a bit ridiculous if their group is as casual as you say.
So, I get the frustrating part about the other players not knowing how the combo (or the rules in general) works so there is something to be said about that. However, you said this group is "casual". So much so that you made it a point to call it out in your summary above. Why then, with a group as casual as this, would you bust out Sharuum combo? That, to me, is kind of a dick move. Yeah, they said they were fine with it, but had they ever played against the deck before? Did they know it was just going to "go off" and end the game in one turn? Considering they didn't even know how the combo worked, let alone that it *did* work, leads me to believe that they had no idea what they were getting into. But you certainly knew what
Those players had every right to be salty. They were planning on a good old-fashioned game of EDH with some back and forth and playing their bombs and whatever else. What they got was a few turns of build up and then the game just ending.
Whether or not their final reaction (leaving he shop entirely) was justified is up for debate. I probably would have just started another game and encouraged you to find a different group to play with rather than just leaving. It is one thing to bring a combo deck into a meta that can handle and prepare for it even if others are not playing combo, but this is a bit ridiculous if their group is as casual as you say.
Basically agree with all of this. First thing I noticed after I read the post earlier was the decks the OP plays listed in his sig and just rolled my eyes. It's hard to feel sympathy for someone who clearly plays a certain style of deck that not many enjoy playing against, who sits down at a table they themselves admit is a very casual group and then act like the victim when they - surprise! - don't respond well. Was trying to claim that the ruling was wrong when it was actually right pretty silly? Yeah, it was silly on their part. But coming here and posting about how to deal with salty players when you're basically an invader and trying to play the victim in this scenario is hilariously out of touch with reality.
Yeah, this is on you, unfortunately. While you are perfectly within your right to play EDH at a high competitive level, you clearly knew that this was a mismatch of expectations. Asking the way you did is like trading a child a "shiny quarter" for his "dirty old $20 bill."
I think it sounds like you didn't explain it correctly on top of it. The etb effect does, in fact, trigger before state based actions are checked. The combo works because, while etb is triggered first, it does not go on the stack until state based actions resolve, so whatever is sent to the yard by sbas can be targeted.
The issue here, beyond you bringing a gun to a pillow fight, is that both parties were partially correct, and partially incorrect about the rules. You were correct about the end result, but not about the particulars of the rules, which allowed them room to go defensive when you tried to tell them that they were wrong about something that that they were right about. Of course, they got caught up on a detail that didn't change the result of the combo (because, again, while they were correct about etb triggering first, they didn't understand that they wouldn't target until state based resolves). Of course, the Sharuum combo is particularly egregious in how it works (its a pretty strange and counter intuitive rules interaction, unlike something like exarch twin that is obvious how it works), so when you rock a bunch of casuals with it out of the blue they are probably going to question it.
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Whether its blue players countering your spells, red players burning you out, or combo, if you have a problem with an aspect of Magic's gameplay, you can fix it!
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Your mistake was in asking if you could play a busted deck. You asked the wrong question.
Full credit for being aware enough to know that there would be a mismatch, and that you felt the need to address it; that said, I think you need to be specific on expectations of the group you're joining and make your decisions from there.
For example, I would start with:
"Hey...how do you guys feel about infinite combos?"
And go from there. Figure out the climate, and then decide if you want to be a part of it, but don't drop in and destroy it with your own influence. You're the visitor. Be a good one.
1) You played a much more powerful deck than them so right off the bat you are kind of a jerk. It would be like playing a well tuned combo deck against a precon.
2) The player who said it does not work was wrong but you should have explained how it works. Such as explaining the stack as well.
Without being a dick about it, I sort of agree with the responses here. Instead of saying you were playing a 'pretty good' deck, you really should have reiterated that it was dedicated combo. That's a whole different kettle of fish - it does kind of suck when you're expecting a battlecruisery game and all of a sudden it just ends. You have to be prepared for that kind of thing. I get that explicitly stating you're playing a combo deck will affect the way the game plays out, but if the group is as casual as your OP states, you sort of owe it to them to either mention it or bring a non-combo deck as backup in case they're not interested in playing against Sharombo.
That being said, they were wrong about the rulings, clearly. And I can't condone their reaction, it seems pretty immature. In this instance, an impartial second opinion with a firm explanation of the rules could have been advisable. In these cases, I'm part of an FB group called ask the judge - you state the scenario, they explain the rulings, all of the mods are judges and it's patrolled pretty well. Usually you will have an answer within minutes. It does seem like regardless of the ruling they would've reacted the same though.
Better to ask what level they are playing ( tier-wise 5-1). Most people that I know, unless they know the deck, will say ok. Then you combo'd. Most will get turned off. Then you brought someone else in. That prob made it worse from the sound of it.
They didn't know about the combo, they probably didn't even know that such a cmbo could exist, so the misunderstanding was big.
After the misunderstanding, i don't know why you just couldn't let play the way the wanted and have the combo not work. Your deck doesn't have another way to win? Winning fast and brutally was so important for you?
I have done the same, seen others do the same. Just like a relationship, sometimes you have to drop it. Now you can't play magic.
I think it's sort of hard to know who's at fault without knowing the exact disclaimer given about the deck, and the exact level of understanding/deck/skill possessed by the other players. Are we talking 75%? Are we talking precons? Are we talking draft chaff? Are they knowledgeable about the game or are they fairly new, or just casual-only? Did they understand that a quick win was likely/possible? My opinion would vary quite a bit depending on the specifics.
I will say: man, people can really get up in arms about rules. I've gotten in some pretty loud arguments over rules, and some people really refuse to back down up until they're proven wrong definitively (I usually try to make an effort to hedge my bets a little to avoid looking like too much of a jackass, although I'm very rarely wrong). It seems to be a strangely hot button topic for some people - although maybe that's the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway it's possible that the anger was over the rules and not necessarily about the actual game. No one wants to lose if they're sure the rules say they don't (even if they're wrong).
I think it's sort of hard to know who's at fault without knowing the exact disclaimer given about the deck, and the exact level of understanding/deck/skill possessed by the other players. Are we talking 75%? Are we talking precons? Are we talking draft chaff? Are they knowledgeable about the game or are they fairly new, or just casual-only? Did they understand that a quick win was likely/possible? My opinion would vary quite a bit depending on the specifics.
I will say: man, people can really get up in arms about rules. I've gotten in some pretty loud arguments over rules, and some people really refuse to back down up until they're proven wrong definitively (I usually try to make an effort to hedge my bets a little to avoid looking like too much of a jackass, although I'm very rarely wrong). It seems to be a strangely hot button topic for some people - although maybe that's the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway it's possible that the anger was over the rules and not necessarily about the actual game. No one wants to lose if they're sure the rules say they don't (even if they're wrong).
From OP's post on their normal play level:
Quote from motleyslayer »
Just the typical group that usually plays casual 60 card and EDH every Saturday. and by casual I mean probably the most casual group I've ever seen. I've played EDH with them a few times, not really having any problems, only getting naged up on once when I was getting out of hand (which I'm fine with, because it's natural)
Can someone explain the Sharuum combo to me? The description assumes the reader knows the specific cards involved and I'm still trying to catch up the last decade of cards.
Just the typical group that usually plays casual 60 card and EDH every Saturday. and by casual I mean probably the most casual group I've ever seen. I've played EDH with them a few times, not really having any problems, only getting naged up on once when I was getting out of hand (which I'm fine with, because it's natural)
That's not very specific, though. Some people would consider unmodded precons to be extremely casual. Personally I'm not impressed by how casual a group is until someone busts out chaplain's blessing in a non-lifegain deck. And there's also the chance that they know what they're doing, but they just prefer to play weaker decks for fun. Or that they're total scrubs. All this information is relevant.
Can someone explain the Sharuum combo to me? The description assumes the reader knows the specific cards involved and I'm still trying to catch up the last decade of cards.
Sharuum the hegemon + some way to copy sharuum using an artifact (sculpting steel and phyrexian metamorph primarily) allows you to infinitely loop dead/etb triggers. You put the copy into play as a copy of sharuum, then it goes to the graveyard thanks to the legend rule (btw - if you're not familiar, that rule has changed several times over the years - now you get to choose one of them to keep rather than killing both of them, and there's no interaction between legends controlled by different players), and then you target it with it's own sharuum ability to recur an artifact. So it keeps dying to legend rule and recurring itself. Then you win either with some sort of onboard effect that cares (disciple of the vault for example) or bitter ordeal.
-You copy Sharuum the Hegemon With sculpting steel
-Send Sharuum to graveyard
-With the copys ability, bring Back sharuum
-Send te copy to graveyard
-WIth Sharuum's Ability bring back Copy.
-Every time a creature you control, dies, Blood artist does 1 damage to target player.
-Repeat until all opponents die.
You don't need to alternate sharuum and the copy, you can just keep doing the copy.
Actually I think you can just copy it with some non-artifact copy, as long as you sac real sharuum and then target it with the copy ability, and then keep sacking the original sharuum and targeting itself.
Can someone explain the Sharuum combo to me? The description assumes the reader knows the specific cards involved and I'm still trying to catch up the last decade of cards.
-You copy Sharuum the Hegemon With sculpting steel
-Send Sharuum to graveyard
-With the copys ability, bring Back sharuum
-Send te copy to graveyard
-WIth Sharuum's Ability bring back Copy.
-Every time a creature you control, dies, Blood artist does 1 damage to target player.
-Repeat until all opponents die.
Just the typical group that usually plays casual 60 card and EDH every Saturday. and by casual I mean probably the most casual group I've ever seen. I've played EDH with them a few times, not really having any problems, only getting naged up on once when I was getting out of hand (which I'm fine with, because it's natural)
That's not very specific, though. Some people would consider unmodded precons to be extremely casual. Personally I'm not impressed by how casual a group is until someone busts out chaplain's blessing in a non-lifegain deck. And there's also the chance that they know what they're doing, but they just prefer to play weaker decks for fun. Or that they're total scrubs. All this information is relevant.
True, I was just emphasizing what information we were given regarding your question, mainly the fact that OP has played with them before and has a feel for their playgroup's level compared to his own, that it's not an entirely new group to them.
Sorry, I don't recognize flavor as a valid reason to run a card
Anyway trust me, that was not the reason that card was getting played. It was the same reason I used to run taste of paradise in my original ~80 card 4-color casual monstrosity - because I've just GOTTA have a way to gain life, man. Otherwise what if I get low on life? I'm just gonna be LOW on LIFE? I don't THINK so!
To the OP, was this post even necessary? Honestly, you start off with explaining to us all that this is End all-be all of casuals you’ve encountered, and then you label them salty after busting out broken infinite combos? And you want our sympathy?
As said above, this one is on you. While I wouldn’t have walked out, I definitely would have called you out. You basically sandbagged that group, and that’s never cool.
“Pretty good” isn’t exactly the best way to explain infinite combo.
Just the typical group that usually plays casual 60 card and EDH every Saturday. and by casual I mean probably the most casual group I've ever seen. I've played EDH with them a few times, not really having any problems, only getting naged up on once when I was getting out of hand (which I'm fine with, because it's natural)
That's not very specific, though. Some people would consider unmodded precons to be extremely casual. Personally I'm not impressed by how casual a group is until someone busts out chaplain's blessing in a non-lifegain deck. And there's also the chance that they know what they're doing, but they just prefer to play weaker decks for fun. Or that they're total scrubs. All this information is relevant.
Can someone explain the Sharuum combo to me? The description assumes the reader knows the specific cards involved and I'm still trying to catch up the last decade of cards.
Sharuum the hegemon + some way to copy sharuum using an artifact (sculpting steel and phyrexian metamorph primarily) allows you to infinitely loop dead/etb triggers. You put the copy into play as a copy of sharuum, then it goes to the graveyard thanks to the legend rule (btw - if you're not familiar, that rule has changed several times over the years - now you get to choose one of them to keep rather than killing both of them, and there's no interaction between legends controlled by different players), and then you target it with it's own sharuum ability to recur an artifact. So it keeps dying to legend rule and recurring itself. Then you win either with some sort of onboard effect that cares (disciple of the vault for example) or bitter ordeal.
-You copy Sharuum the Hegemon With sculpting steel
-Send Sharuum to graveyard
-With the copys ability, bring Back sharuum
-Send te copy to graveyard
-WIth Sharuum's Ability bring back Copy.
-Every time a creature you control, dies, Blood artist does 1 damage to target player.
-Repeat until all opponents die.
You don't need to alternate sharuum and the copy, you can just keep doing the copy.
Actually I think you can just copy it with some non-artifact copy, as long as you sac real sharuum and then target it with the copy ability, and then keep sacking the original sharuum and targeting itself.
Ah... thanks you two. I'm up to date on the Legends rule. Just wasn't familiar with the loop with Sharuum and friends. Pretty snazzy combo and I absolutely can see why someone not familiar with the combo can think it won't work and/or get upset at it.
guess I could have been more descriptive in my post a few days ago, didn't get on here yesterday so probably left a bit unexplained.
There was one guy who I used to play with a few years back, before our work/life schedules disbanded the group we had and he knew what my deck was like. And he said, just play whatever you want and they'll just play the game and let it happen the way it does. Ironically, he was the one who got the most upset.
Basically, the group works out this way from what I've seen: The one guy mentioned above has decks that are from what I've seen probably more powerful than the rest of his groups', as most games I've seen them play usually end up with the rest of the table teaming up on him because his decks get out of control. Other decks are some kind of theme deck (Like Szadek voltron mill, Naya Dinos, upgraded cat tribal, Mayeal the anima and probably a few others I'm missing). From what it seems, it's the one guy mostly dominating the group, with other players occasionally getting a win in.
also, to the people who said I didn't explain it, I explained it multiple times but they kept insisting that the etb would resolve before a sharuum would be put in the gy, thus not making it work
I'm pretty sure Sharuum works just fine on MTGO. You stack your triggers after the Sculpting hits graveyard; they just wait in limbo on the screen while you choose your legendary to keep.
I'm pretty sure Sharuum works just fine on MTGO. You stack your triggers after the Sculpting hits graveyard; they just wait in limbo on the screen while you choose your legendary to keep.
the judge who I asked sent me a vidoe of him doing the combo on MTGO, so maybe the person the guy who said it didn't work watched just didn't do it right some how.
the judge who I asked sent me a vidoe of him doing the combo on MTGO, so maybe the person the guy who said it didn't work watched just didn't do it right some how.
Even if it didn’t work on MTGO, unless they’ve fixed a lot since I last used the program, there are things that don’t work properly in the program so using it as a rules example is kinda silly.
As far as your initial question, the power level issue aside, there isn’t much you can do beyond what you did. You tried to explain the rule and you had a judge back you up. If they can’t accept that then they will have future problems playing Magic. Hopefully, after getting over their feelings on how the game ended they might be willing to accept they had the rules wrong.
The power level issue is only relevant because it put them in the mindset where they didn’t want to like you or agree with anything you said. So there you sort of have two choices; you can play weaker decks against them or you can accept that after every game with you they will be salty and unreasonable.
I decided I'd play a game of EDH with them. I wanted to play my Sharuum deck, telling them it was a pretty good deck, but if they wanted me to, I'd switch decks if they wanted me to. However, they were fine with me playing it, the one guy who I've known for a while said he was the one who usually got ganged up on but we could both do our thing.
Basically, I had a really good start. Had my Tezzeret, agent of bolas on my opening hand. Went turn one flooded strand, getting godless shrine, topdecking mana crypt then playing the blue artifact land and then casting Tezz. Heard groans starting after the crypt. Tezz digs for me. Eventually, I had a bunch of mana rocks, Tezz aob and seeker and a scroll rack. so i was doing well. Eventually, I was able to dig for a blood artist and sculpting steel and way more than enough mana to combo. I went to combo, playing blood artist then sharuum, getting back my mana crypt which was destroyed in response to a a seeker activation, then played the steel . I asked if everyone knows how it worked, the guy who I had known for a while said it doesn't work the way I want it to. I told him the steel enters as a copy of sharuum, then state based actions are checked before the etb of the copy happen, forcing me to send one of my sharuums to the grave (obv the original for this to work) then repeating the loop. He then says it doesn't work, because he saw it on modo. He said the etbs resolve before state based actions.
I then ask my friend who's an L2 and he agrees with me, but the table just says the judge doesn't understand teh rules. Eventually, they just give up and leave the store outright.
how would you have handled this situation?
I know there was an issue of playing a deck that was way stronger than the table but I figured I'd ask them if they were fine, which they were.
would you just not play with them or would you just give them a bit to relax and get over it?
and of course the next game play your fair commander that liked to turn sideways.
Those players had every right to be salty. They were planning on a good old-fashioned game of EDH with some back and forth and playing their bombs and whatever else. What they got was a few turns of build up and then the game just ending.
Whether or not their final reaction (leaving he shop entirely) was justified is up for debate. I probably would have just started another game and encouraged you to find a different group to play with rather than just leaving. It is one thing to bring a combo deck into a meta that can handle and prepare for it even if others are not playing combo, but this is a bit ridiculous if their group is as casual as you say.
Basically agree with all of this. First thing I noticed after I read the post earlier was the decks the OP plays listed in his sig and just rolled my eyes. It's hard to feel sympathy for someone who clearly plays a certain style of deck that not many enjoy playing against, who sits down at a table they themselves admit is a very casual group and then act like the victim when they - surprise! - don't respond well. Was trying to claim that the ruling was wrong when it was actually right pretty silly? Yeah, it was silly on their part. But coming here and posting about how to deal with salty players when you're basically an invader and trying to play the victim in this scenario is hilariously out of touch with reality.
(Also known as Xenphire)
The issue here, beyond you bringing a gun to a pillow fight, is that both parties were partially correct, and partially incorrect about the rules. You were correct about the end result, but not about the particulars of the rules, which allowed them room to go defensive when you tried to tell them that they were wrong about something that that they were right about. Of course, they got caught up on a detail that didn't change the result of the combo (because, again, while they were correct about etb triggering first, they didn't understand that they wouldn't target until state based resolves). Of course, the Sharuum combo is particularly egregious in how it works (its a pretty strange and counter intuitive rules interaction, unlike something like exarch twin that is obvious how it works), so when you rock a bunch of casuals with it out of the blue they are probably going to question it.
Onering's 4 simple steps that let you solve any problem with Magic's gameplay
Step 1: Identify the problem. What aspect of Magic don't you like? Step 2: Find out how others deal with the problem. How do players deal with this aspect of the game when they run into it? Step 3: Do what those players do. Step 4: No more problem. Bonus: You are now better at Magic. Enjoy those extra wins!
Full credit for being aware enough to know that there would be a mismatch, and that you felt the need to address it; that said, I think you need to be specific on expectations of the group you're joining and make your decisions from there.
For example, I would start with:
"Hey...how do you guys feel about infinite combos?"
And go from there. Figure out the climate, and then decide if you want to be a part of it, but don't drop in and destroy it with your own influence. You're the visitor. Be a good one.
->GDC
2) The player who said it does not work was wrong but you should have explained how it works. Such as explaining the stack as well.
I usually throw salt packets when I am Salty.
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WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
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That being said, they were wrong about the rulings, clearly. And I can't condone their reaction, it seems pretty immature. In this instance, an impartial second opinion with a firm explanation of the rules could have been advisable. In these cases, I'm part of an FB group called ask the judge - you state the scenario, they explain the rulings, all of the mods are judges and it's patrolled pretty well. Usually you will have an answer within minutes. It does seem like regardless of the ruling they would've reacted the same though.
I have done the same, seen others do the same. Just like a relationship, sometimes you have to drop it. Now you can't play magic.
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I will say: man, people can really get up in arms about rules. I've gotten in some pretty loud arguments over rules, and some people really refuse to back down up until they're proven wrong definitively (I usually try to make an effort to hedge my bets a little to avoid looking like too much of a jackass, although I'm very rarely wrong). It seems to be a strangely hot button topic for some people - although maybe that's the pot calling the kettle black. Anyway it's possible that the anger was over the rules and not necessarily about the actual game. No one wants to lose if they're sure the rules say they don't (even if they're wrong).
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
Silently reach into your bag and slowly place a golden, dick shaped, salt shaker right in front of them.
From OP's post on their normal play level:
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Can someone explain the Sharuum combo to me? The description assumes the reader knows the specific cards involved and I'm still trying to catch up the last decade of cards.
You don't need to alternate sharuum and the copy, you can just keep doing the copy.
Actually I think you can just copy it with some non-artifact copy, as long as you sac real sharuum and then target it with the copy ability, and then keep sacking the original sharuum and targeting itself.
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
-You copy Sharuum the Hegemon With sculpting steel
-Send Sharuum to graveyard
-With the copys ability, bring Back sharuum
-Send te copy to graveyard
-WIth Sharuum's Ability bring back Copy.
-Every time a creature you control, dies, Blood artist does 1 damage to target player.
-Repeat until all opponents die.
UB Vela the Night-Clad BUDecklist
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores GBW
WUBRGThe Ur-DragonWUBRGDecklist
True, I was just emphasizing what information we were given regarding your question, mainly the fact that OP has played with them before and has a feel for their playgroup's level compared to his own, that it's not an entirely new group to them.
As an aside, Chaplain's Blessing absolutely has a home in mono-W Mikaeus Proselytizing.dec with Preacher, Evangelize, Martyr's Cause, clerics, angels, and similar cards.
Beating Face with Bane
Beatrice, the Golden Witch
Anyway trust me, that was not the reason that card was getting played. It was the same reason I used to run taste of paradise in my original ~80 card 4-color casual monstrosity - because I've just GOTTA have a way to gain life, man. Otherwise what if I get low on life? I'm just gonna be LOW on LIFE? I don't THINK so!
EDH Primers
Phelddagrif - Zirilan
EDH
Thrasios+Bruse - Pang - Sasaya - Wydwen - Feather - Rona - Toshiro - Sylvia+Khorvath - Geth - QMarchesa - Firesong - Athreos - Arixmethes - Isperia - Etali - Silas+Sidar - Saskia - Virtus+Gorm - Kynaios - Naban - Aryel - Mizzix - Kazuul - Tymna+Kraum - Sidar+Tymna - Ayli - Gwendlyn - Phelddagrif 4 - Liliana - Kaervek - Phelddagrif 3 - Mairsil - Scarab - Child - Phenax - Shirei - Thada - Depala - Circu - Kytheon - GrenzoHR - Phelddagrif - Reyhan+Kraum - Toshiro - Varolz - Nin - Ojutai - Tasigur - Zedruu - Uril - Edric - Wort - Zurgo - Nahiri - Grenzo - Kozilek - Yisan - Ink-Treader - Yisan - Brago - Sidisi - Toshiro - Alexi - Sygg - Brimaz - Sek'Kuar - Marchesa - Vish Kal - Iroas - Phelddagrif - Ephara - Derevi - Glissa - Wanderer - Saffi - Melek - Xiahou Dun - Lazav - Lin Sivvi - Zirilan - Glissa
PDH - Drake - Graverobber - Izzet GM - Tallowisp - Symbiote Brawl - Feather - Ugin - Jace - Scarab - Angrath - Vraska - Kumena Oathbreaker - Wrenn&6
As said above, this one is on you. While I wouldn’t have walked out, I definitely would have called you out. You basically sandbagged that group, and that’s never cool.
“Pretty good” isn’t exactly the best way to explain infinite combo.
Ah... thanks you two. I'm up to date on the Legends rule. Just wasn't familiar with the loop with Sharuum and friends. Pretty snazzy combo and I absolutely can see why someone not familiar with the combo can think it won't work and/or get upset at it.
There was one guy who I used to play with a few years back, before our work/life schedules disbanded the group we had and he knew what my deck was like. And he said, just play whatever you want and they'll just play the game and let it happen the way it does. Ironically, he was the one who got the most upset.
Basically, the group works out this way from what I've seen: The one guy mentioned above has decks that are from what I've seen probably more powerful than the rest of his groups', as most games I've seen them play usually end up with the rest of the table teaming up on him because his decks get out of control. Other decks are some kind of theme deck (Like Szadek voltron mill, Naya Dinos, upgraded cat tribal, Mayeal the anima and probably a few others I'm missing). From what it seems, it's the one guy mostly dominating the group, with other players occasionally getting a win in.
also, to the people who said I didn't explain it, I explained it multiple times but they kept insisting that the etb would resolve before a sharuum would be put in the gy, thus not making it work
the judge who I asked sent me a vidoe of him doing the combo on MTGO, so maybe the person the guy who said it didn't work watched just didn't do it right some how.
Even if it didn’t work on MTGO, unless they’ve fixed a lot since I last used the program, there are things that don’t work properly in the program so using it as a rules example is kinda silly.
As far as your initial question, the power level issue aside, there isn’t much you can do beyond what you did. You tried to explain the rule and you had a judge back you up. If they can’t accept that then they will have future problems playing Magic. Hopefully, after getting over their feelings on how the game ended they might be willing to accept they had the rules wrong.
The power level issue is only relevant because it put them in the mindset where they didn’t want to like you or agree with anything you said. So there you sort of have two choices; you can play weaker decks against them or you can accept that after every game with you they will be salty and unreasonable.
EDH Decks:
WUBOloro, Combo ControlWUB
UBOona Reanimator ComboUB
BRGProssh, Eater of the Blue MageBRG
UBRGrixis StormUBR
Rebuilding Jenara (stealyourstuff.dec)
Pauper Deck:
UBInspired SirenUB